General Discussion

hunter

(38,303 posts)

17. The exponential growth of an innovative species always ends in some kind of wreck.

Wed Oct 30, 2013, 04:34 PM

Oct 2013

This sort of thing has happened often in the history of life on earth. Humans are not anything special.

We could land softly, with a healthy stable sustainable population, without all the flames and drama and messy death, but I'm not sure humans are actually intelligent. Maybe we are some kind of proto-intelligence, but even that seems less and less likely every day now.

An intelligent species, even one with a very dim sputtering spark of intelligence, would not destroy the natural ecosystems it depends on for its own survival.

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I'd love to believe that the global crisis we're facing is all capitalism's fault. [View all] GliderGuider Oct 2013 OP

check out Carolyn Baker's work on spiritual implications of long descent zazen Oct 2013 #1

I know her work well. It's excellent. GliderGuider Oct 2013 #8

sorry if I was patronizing then! zazen Oct 2013 #11

No, you weren't patronizing at all! GliderGuider Oct 2013 #13

no system will work until ProdigalJunkMail Oct 2013 #2

Some will work better than others and the messier the system, Warpy Oct 2013 #32

i don't disagree at all... ProdigalJunkMail Oct 2013 #47

What "global crisis"? delrem Oct 2013 #3

Exactly! GliderGuider Oct 2013 #5

Well, I respectfully disagree. The scarcity anxiety is caused by capitalist systems and memes. ananda Oct 2013 #4

What causes the capitalist systems and memes? nt GliderGuider Oct 2013 #6

Humans, who are destroying our own habitat. Quantess Oct 2013 #20

Humans are indeed the proximate cause. GliderGuider Oct 2013 #24

Sounds like a... no wait... I mean it SMELLS like a steaming pantload, to me. Quantess Oct 2013 #31

Humans are greedy, I don't care if all you are doing is trading fur for potatoes. People will find a liberal_at_heart Oct 2013 #7

No, doing what I talk about won't change human nature or the physical situation GliderGuider Oct 2013 #9

While I certainly think the idea of reconnecting with each other is good el_bryanto Oct 2013 #10

Technological advances are what got us here. GliderGuider Oct 2013 #12

To say that technology can't rescue us from a problem the technology created is el_bryanto Oct 2013 #14

The historic "rescues" by technology have all been temporary GliderGuider Oct 2013 #15

nods - well I guess i just prefer to have more hope than that. el_bryanto Oct 2013 #16

Most people do. GliderGuider Oct 2013 #41

The exponential growth of an innovative species always ends in some kind of wreck. hunter Oct 2013 #17

What do you suggest, beyond embracing Kubler-Ross' 5 steps? Quantess Oct 2013 #18

I suggest that each of us do what seems right to us. GliderGuider Oct 2013 #21

That is not capitalism's goal leftstreet Oct 2013 #19

How does capitalism make profits? nt GliderGuider Oct 2013 #22

By always owning the means to getting them! leftstreet Oct 2013 #25

How do socialists make profits? nt GliderGuider Oct 2013 #28

What's a socialist? leftstreet Oct 2013 #29

I'm not asking you what Wikipedia thinks. What do you think? GliderGuider Oct 2013 #35

Natual selection does not explain GWBush leftstreet Oct 2013 #43

Who were his backers? The real guys with power? GliderGuider Oct 2013 #46

It makes profits AT ALL COSTS. polichick Oct 2013 #26

Yes indeed, it does. nt GliderGuider Oct 2013 #36

And that's why it sucks. polichick Oct 2013 #37

It doesn't care. nt GliderGuider Oct 2013 #39

Another reason it sucks. polichick Oct 2013 #40

Profits are a risk-weighted return on assets; if assets don't grow, profits don't grow. FarCenter Oct 2013 #27

I'm so glad I have hope, and do something to nurture it within a realistic framework. OneGrassRoot Oct 2013 #23

Yes, I have come to terms with this worldview. GliderGuider Oct 2013 #38

I think the energy of capitalism can be harnessed to rebuild, renew and recycle. nt CJCRANE Oct 2013 #30

Bit Malthusian, maybe? DirkGently Oct 2013 #33

Capitalism is fine, burnsei sensei Oct 2013 #34

Yet it's not the socialists giving up and drinking bleach just yet. nt. Starry Messenger Oct 2013 #42

Funny that, isn't it Starry?....... socialist_n_TN Oct 2013 #44

"Pray for the dead and fight like hell for the living!" Starry Messenger Oct 2013 #50

Have you actually read any Marx? DireStrike Oct 2013 #45

I'm a third-gen socialist, so yes, I've read Marx. This isn't about Marx. GliderGuider Oct 2013 #49

It's a straw man to say that the focus of socialism is growth DireStrike Oct 2013 #54

Of course it's not the explicit goal. GliderGuider Oct 2013 #55

I know balance works... having one kind of anything fascisthunter Oct 2013 #48

it pretty much is gopiscrap Oct 2013 #51

Most of your pessimism lies in your incorrect assumptions .. MindMover Oct 2013 #52

I didn't say we couldn't get rid of capitalism GliderGuider Oct 2013 #53

"It employs, directly or indirectly, all 7.2 billion people on the planet." = NOT MindMover Oct 2013 #57

You think those people working in agriculture are not indirectly employed by the system? GliderGuider Oct 2013 #58

So just because you were 4 or 5 billion off your original number MindMover Oct 2013 #60

It's the "indirect" part that closes the gap. GliderGuider Oct 2013 #62

I have decided you are delusional with cause ... MindMover Oct 2013 #63

Name calling? Really? GliderGuider Oct 2013 #64

There are many delusional fear mongers making money ... MindMover Oct 2013 #65

No, I take no offense at all. GliderGuider Oct 2013 #66

Again your assumptions are incorrect about my zones ... MindMover Oct 2013 #67

Depression WiffenPoof Oct 2013 #56

Only 50% of it is captalism's fault. The fault in the other 50% lies with those of us Zorra Oct 2013 #59

and AMEN ... MindMover Oct 2013 #61