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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!
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How do you think Hillary would do against Trump in 2020? (Original Post) C Moon Apr 2019 OP
"Hillary isn't pure enough in 1, 2, 3........ leftofcool Apr 2019 #1
And, god save Cha Apr 2019 #3
She isn't running so there's no real reason to wonder. The Velveteen Ocelot Apr 2019 #2
Are you sure there won't be some version of the Comey letter, or the July press conference? StevieM Apr 2019 #4
+1 always anticipate an october surprise from these characters. rampartc Apr 2019 #18
There can always be an October Surprise. The Velveteen Ocelot Apr 2019 #25
Hillary did campaign hard until the very end. StevieM Apr 2019 #28
It's water under the bridge now, of course, The Velveteen Ocelot Apr 2019 #29
You do realize that part of what HRC was criticized for was essentially embracing that strategy. StevieM Apr 2019 #37
If she had a ground game in MN I sure didn't see it, and I actually went looking for it. The Velveteen Ocelot Apr 2019 #38
She would lose by a bigger margin AlexSFCA Apr 2019 #5
Why do you think so? I'm intrigued by your assessment. n/t susanna Apr 2019 #7
her favourable ratings have hit an all-time low in the most recent Gallup data I could find, Celerity Apr 2019 #21
Lose by a bigger margin? So her popular vote win would be even more SFnomad Apr 2019 #34
popular vote is irrelevant in prez elections AlexSFCA Apr 2019 #35
So what? It may be "irrelevant", but is shows the "winner" doesn't have any type of mandate n/t SFnomad Apr 2019 #36
I'm willing to speculate ... NanceGreggs Apr 2019 #6
These are my thoughts as well. n/t susanna Apr 2019 #8
I dunno. I think hate of her, specifically, is still huge. bitterross Apr 2019 #9
Amazing she got 66 Million Cha Apr 2019 #10
I love Hillary, but I'm not putting my head in the sand. bitterross Apr 2019 #11
Yeah, she still got 66 Million Votes in Cha Apr 2019 #12
I'm neither disputing, nor diminishing that fact. bitterross Apr 2019 #14
I know.. sorry if I Cha Apr 2019 #15
I feel certain we want the same things. bitterross Apr 2019 #16
I like your post. c-rational Apr 2019 #22
'that demographic' is pretty diverse. floppyboo Apr 2019 #33
I was thinking of the older white women who voted for Trump bitterross Apr 2019 #39
got it. big group. college educated 50+ esp. voted for 45 :( floppyboo Apr 2019 #40
Thanks Nance.. for the reality check. Cha Apr 2019 #13
+1. dalton99a Apr 2019 #24
She'd win in the numbers the earlier 2016 polls indicated, Hortensis Apr 2019 #17
Hillary isn't running. It is a pity any candidates from 16 is running. Demsrule86 Apr 2019 #19
I suspect she would lose FBaggins Apr 2019 #20
Unfortunately, it will be a repeat of 2016 if HRC decides to run. Dazbog Apr 2019 #23
Whoever gets our nomination will face the same pandr32 Apr 2019 #32
She has suffered enuf Funtatlaguy Apr 2019 #26
Time to move on and respect HRC as she now ... a former 1st lady and presidential contender, SWBTATTReg Apr 2019 #27
Of course she would still win the popular vote. I mean it was close in those 3 states. I want to UniteFightBack Apr 2019 #30
Hillary, one of our best candidates EVER BlueFlorida Apr 2019 #31
 

leftofcool

(19,460 posts)
1. "Hillary isn't pure enough in 1, 2, 3........
Sun Apr 7, 2019, 02:10 AM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Cha

(295,899 posts)
3. And, god save
Sun Apr 7, 2019, 02:41 AM
Apr 2019

from those who think they are!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,270 posts)
2. She isn't running so there's no real reason to wonder.
Sun Apr 7, 2019, 02:16 AM
Apr 2019

I will say, however, that 2016 was full of unusual factors - the nomination of Trump, the Russian social media trolls, the Comey letter - that were unanticipated. This time, though, we know Trump will be the nominee (assuming he's still in office in 18 months); the Russian trolls will be out in force but at least we know they're there; and the Comey letter was a total black swan event that won't reoccur. So the landscape is very different this time and the outcome probably would be, too.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

StevieM

(10,499 posts)
4. Are you sure there won't be some version of the Comey letter, or the July press conference?
Sun Apr 7, 2019, 02:48 AM
Apr 2019

I can't imagine that there won't be another swift boating of some kind. And this time the GOP may have the entire DOJ at their disposal.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

rampartc

(5,263 posts)
18. +1 always anticipate an october surprise from these characters.
Sun Apr 7, 2019, 07:10 AM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,270 posts)
25. There can always be an October Surprise.
Sun Apr 7, 2019, 11:22 AM
Apr 2019

But the thing about surprises is that because they are surprises there's no way to prepare for them. So you have to manage the things you can control in a way that ensures that the surprise won't derail you completely. I think one of the problems with 2016 is that nobody, including the pollsters, really thought Trump would win, so the damage being done by the Russian trolls was either not recognized or not taken seriously (and Hillary really should have campaigned hard in Wisconsin, PA and Michigan), so when the Comey letter came out it was just enough to do the damage it did. It probably wouldn't have been enough but for some of those other factors. You always have to campaign like you're behind.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

StevieM

(10,499 posts)
28. Hillary did campaign hard until the very end.
Sun Apr 7, 2019, 11:56 AM
Apr 2019

She was with Al Gore in Florida, telling people it would be a close race, and reminding them that every vote can make a difference.

She spent more money in Wisconsin and Michigan than Barack Obama did in 2012. She had larger ground organizations in those states. And if you want to talk about where rallies were held, she held more rallies in PA than in any other state, in a tie with OH and FL. She also made a few stops in Michigan.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,270 posts)
29. It's water under the bridge now, of course,
Sun Apr 7, 2019, 12:07 PM
Apr 2019

but in her book she admitted she never visited WI after the convention and that she should have. Here in next-door Minnesota, a state that's usually hard-core Dem but which she won by only the slimmest margin, she visited once but her campaign seemed to have no ground game. I couldn't even get a lawn sign although I called around and stopped at a couple of party offices, and I saw very few lawn signs or bumper stickers even here in the People's Republic of Minneapolis. Nobody seemed to know what was going on. I have no way of knowing to what extent this was a factor, but I'm just saying that no candidate dares take anything for granted, and I'm hoping Howard Dean's 50-state strategy is implemented again.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

StevieM

(10,499 posts)
37. You do realize that part of what HRC was criticized for was essentially embracing that strategy.
Sun Apr 7, 2019, 01:26 PM
Apr 2019

People said she campaigned in states that were too hard for Democrats to win. Arizona and Georgia should have been conceded, we were told, even if she was leading in the polls. She should have given up on Ohio and Iowa sooner, they said. People even suggested the North Carolina, a state were she had consistently led in the polls, throughout the race, was not a place that should have gotten as much focus as it did.

Perhaps she should have scheduled some rallies in Wisconsin, but when you are way up in the polls you generally go to other states. And she did spend an enormous amount of advertising money there. Also, she did have a ground game in WI and MN. They knocked on countless doors, and made an enormous number of phone calls. I admit that I don't know what the situation was with lawn signs and bumper stickers in MN, but perhaps that is an area that could have used some improvement.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,270 posts)
38. If she had a ground game in MN I sure didn't see it, and I actually went looking for it.
Sun Apr 7, 2019, 01:34 PM
Apr 2019

I hope to see evidence of the 2020 candidate in my state this next time.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

AlexSFCA

(6,137 posts)
5. She would lose by a bigger margin
Sun Apr 7, 2019, 02:59 AM
Apr 2019

unfortunately

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

susanna

(5,231 posts)
7. Why do you think so? I'm intrigued by your assessment. n/t
Sun Apr 7, 2019, 04:25 AM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Celerity

(42,645 posts)
21. her favourable ratings have hit an all-time low in the most recent Gallup data I could find,
Sun Apr 7, 2019, 08:28 AM
Apr 2019

which bucks the historic trend for failed presidential candidates always increasing in favourability post-elections. This is, granted, 6 plus months old data, as that is the latest Gallup info I could find. I did find a more recent poll from Gallup as well that also seems to reflect this trend:

Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton's favorability with U.S. adults is unchanged from last November -- remaining at a record low (36%).

https://news.gallup.com/poll/243242/snapshot-hillary-clinton-favorable-rating-low.aspx





Michelle Obama Ends Hillary Clinton's Run as Most Admired

https://news.gallup.com/poll/245669/michelle-obama-ends-hillary-clinton-run-admired.aspx




If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

SFnomad

(3,473 posts)
34. Lose by a bigger margin? So her popular vote win would be even more
Sun Apr 7, 2019, 12:41 PM
Apr 2019

while the EC still ends up denying her?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

AlexSFCA

(6,137 posts)
35. popular vote is irrelevant in prez elections
Sun Apr 7, 2019, 01:02 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

SFnomad

(3,473 posts)
36. So what? It may be "irrelevant", but is shows the "winner" doesn't have any type of mandate n/t
Sun Apr 7, 2019, 01:18 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

NanceGreggs

(27,813 posts)
6. I'm willing to speculate ...
Sun Apr 7, 2019, 03:34 AM
Apr 2019

… knowing, of course, that she won’t run again.

But I think she’d cream him. Given the same two choices, I’m sure a lot of people would vote exactly the same – but then again, a lot of them wouldn’t.

There are a lot of Trump voters who have woken up – the ones who have lost the jobs he promised to protect, those who are worried about losing their healthcare, those who are appalled by locking children in cages, those who have watched their taxes go up while taxes for the wealthy have gone down, et cetera. That’s why his disapproval numbers are where they are.

Simply put, given another choice between the two, there is NO ONE who would change their vote from HRC to Trump – while there are MANY who would change from Trump to HRC.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

susanna

(5,231 posts)
8. These are my thoughts as well. n/t
Sun Apr 7, 2019, 04:27 AM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

bitterross

(4,066 posts)
9. I dunno. I think hate of her, specifically, is still huge.
Sun Apr 7, 2019, 05:47 AM
Apr 2019

I feel pretty certain all the white women who voted for Trump would vote for him again. There is some sort of self-loathing there.

Please do not take this as me being a misogynist. I'm just commenting on what I see in reality. And I see a lot of white women who were indoctrinated from birth with the opinion that women are less than men. I see it in my sisters. They are the absolute stereotype of the the white woman in that Trump-voter age group who went to college to get their "Mrs." To find a man who would take care of them and tell them what to do for the rest of their lives - a replacement for their father.

Sure, I know the videos we see posted online of white women outside of Trump rallies talking about how a woman should never be President are edited to pick them. But they didn't have to interview too many women to get those clips. I think those videos are actually representative and not anecdotal.

I'm not a psychologist but there sure seems to be some sort of visceral hate for a very successful woman. Maybe it comes from some sort of jealousy they don't realize they have. Jealousy for Hillary's overcoming the repression. Women have certainly been repressed.

I don't see that demographic as having changed their opinion of Trump.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Cha

(295,899 posts)
10. Amazing she got 66 Million
Sun Apr 7, 2019, 05:51 AM
Apr 2019

Votes with all the "hate of her" being bandied about.

No worries.. Hillary is Not running.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

bitterross

(4,066 posts)
11. I love Hillary, but I'm not putting my head in the sand.
Sun Apr 7, 2019, 05:54 AM
Apr 2019

I volunteered for her. Stuffed envelopes and was totally excited we would have our first female President.

If you want to deny the truth, then feel free. It doesn't do a lot of good.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Cha

(295,899 posts)
12. Yeah, she still got 66 Million Votes in
Sun Apr 7, 2019, 05:59 AM
Apr 2019

spite of all the "hate" thrown at her.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

bitterross

(4,066 posts)
14. I'm neither disputing, nor diminishing that fact.
Sun Apr 7, 2019, 06:02 AM
Apr 2019

I'm also not so blind as to not see reality.

Yes, when she said there was a vast right-wing conspiracy she was correct. I believe that.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Cha

(295,899 posts)
15. I know.. sorry if I
Sun Apr 7, 2019, 06:11 AM
Apr 2019

came across differently.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

bitterross

(4,066 posts)
16. I feel certain we want the same things.
Sun Apr 7, 2019, 06:21 AM
Apr 2019

I would love it if Hillary were in the White House.

That didn't happen. So, I have to try to be as objective as possible and figure out why. Russian interference is one reason.

But we have to look at that interference. It simply played upon the psyche of the nation. As far as we know, the Russians didn't change votes in voting machines.

What we know is they targeted people's emotions and used them to direct the voting.

WE, the Democrats, can target people's emotions for good. Not for the evil and selfishness Trump does.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

c-rational

(2,581 posts)
22. I like your post.
Sun Apr 7, 2019, 10:09 AM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

floppyboo

(2,461 posts)
33. 'that demographic' is pretty diverse.
Sun Apr 7, 2019, 12:36 PM
Apr 2019

For instance, millennial women don't have the same indoctrination, which makes you wonder why she didn't capture that vote as did an old white man. She'd have to come out big time for the green new deal, public banking, medicare for all, net neutrality, prison reform in ways she didn't quite communicate last time.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

bitterross

(4,066 posts)
39. I was thinking of the older white women who voted for Trump
Sun Apr 7, 2019, 02:05 PM
Apr 2019

The 50+ demographic is really what I was thinking about.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

floppyboo

(2,461 posts)
40. got it. big group. college educated 50+ esp. voted for 45 :(
Sun Apr 7, 2019, 03:47 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Cha

(295,899 posts)
13. Thanks Nance.. for the reality check.
Sun Apr 7, 2019, 06:00 AM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
17. She'd win in the numbers the earlier 2016 polls indicated,
Sun Apr 7, 2019, 06:23 AM
Apr 2019

keeping the house and bringing the senate on her coattails. The midterms show the public's waking up and concerned, no longer so complacent. And we know about Russia and other corruption, including media and FBI, that caused the then-inexplicable changes later in the race.

I believe very few Republicans would vote for her -- that kind of change in this mega-identity era is relatively rare. But registered Republicans are at most a quarter of the electorate now. And as the midterms indicate, a few more conservative indies would (but most loyal to their mega-identity), of course more liberal indies, more nonvoters, and more registered Democrats.

I suspect more of Sanders' ideologues and cultists would, but discussion makes me think many would again refuse to vote for Hillary. Their identifying fealty to their one candidate and the partisan antagonism and rejection already displayed toward others are very different from the attitudes of Democrats who may already have a preference among other candidates but expect to honestly support whoever our nominee is. Also, the HillHate still simmering on their little satellite forum...

My best guess is that Sanders' populists might split somewhat this time, not all going Trump and third party. Those more strongly driven by their progressive side than antagonism might vote Democrat this time out of worry for their health insurance and so on. Might. It didn't keep them before.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Demsrule86

(68,347 posts)
19. Hillary isn't running. It is a pity any candidates from 16 is running.
Sun Apr 7, 2019, 07:27 AM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

FBaggins

(26,695 posts)
20. I suspect she would lose
Sun Apr 7, 2019, 08:14 AM
Apr 2019

But it doesn’t matter because she wouldn’t get the nomination.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Dazbog

(39 posts)
23. Unfortunately, it will be a repeat of 2016 if HRC decides to run.
Sun Apr 7, 2019, 10:15 AM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

pandr32

(11,446 posts)
32. Whoever gets our nomination will face the same
Sun Apr 7, 2019, 12:22 PM
Apr 2019

The social media disinformation is already in full tilt. Putin still has his plans and goals and the Republicans will still carry the water.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Funtatlaguy

(10,856 posts)
26. She has suffered enuf
Sun Apr 7, 2019, 11:26 AM
Apr 2019

The irrational hatred ginned up against her was one of this country’s darkest moments

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

SWBTATTReg

(21,856 posts)
27. Time to move on and respect HRC as she now ... a former 1st lady and presidential contender,
Sun Apr 7, 2019, 11:32 AM
Apr 2019

an former(?) senator and one of the most graceful persons we all know. I want to concentrate on the candidates who already stepped to the plate and work on getting them elected.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

UniteFightBack

(8,231 posts)
30. Of course she would still win the popular vote. I mean it was close in those 3 states. I want to
Sun Apr 7, 2019, 12:09 PM
Apr 2019

automatically say ...oh no she would lose....but would she?

Since the margin was so close in those 3 states it wouldn't take much to flip that I would think. They may already be flipped because of how bad rump is. But in the end the risks just outweigh her making another run.

If I had my way Hillary would of won in 2008 and then Obama would of come in after that. When everybody started breaking for Obama I was like Nooooo what is everybody doing...he's young, he's kinda new..he'll still be there. The momentum was with Hillary until this "new guy" who you could not help but just love "broke on the scene."

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

BlueFlorida

(1,532 posts)
31. Hillary, one of our best candidates EVER
Sun Apr 7, 2019, 12:15 PM
Apr 2019

has been damaged irreparably by one campaign with smears, innuendo and outright lies, possibly aided by foreign interference.

The Mueller complaint against 12 Russian entities and individuals SPECIFICALLY mentions that the Russians operated troll farms, disinfo websites and divisive tactics.

https://www.justice.gov/file/1035477/download


They engaged in operations primarily intended to communicate derogatory information about Hillary Clinton, to denigrate other candidates such as Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio, and to support Bernie Sanders and then-candidate Donald Trump."

See paragraph 43 of the indictment on page 17 of 37.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
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