Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumBernie cannot win FL in the general, and that means if he loses ANY of the following he loses it all
given the following postulations. If he loses FL then he HAS to win ALL of the flowing states or pairings or he loses the EC, in some cases by a nation ripping-apart 269-269 tie where the Rethugs 26 (or more post election) House delegations will elect the monster Rump.The only 2 state House delegations (ironically WI and FL) where we have a chance to remove a delegation from the Rethugs are gerrymandered up the arse, have Rethug massive voter suppression programmes as well, and are basically insanely hard to flip, PLUS there is a tied state (PA) who the Rethugs very likely may win back if Bernie is at the top of the ticket. ALL those Blue Wave flips in the House that are from pink, purple and red districts are in serious trouble with a Sanders-topped ticket. There is more than a decent chance we lose the House with a Bernie-led ticket.
For arguments sake I will keep ME-2 and NE-2 in the Trump category as Trump won ME-2 (the 2nd most rural district in the US House) by 10 points, and NE-2 voted down a progressive in favour of a Trumper-humper in the massive Blue wave 2018 elections. Obama won it by 1 % in 2008, then lost it in 2012, Hillary lost it in 2016 with only 44.98% of the vote. Those one or two (IF we flip both) EV's only come into play in certain losses of states or pairs, those being worth 9 or 10 EV's. If worth 10 EV's, we would need to flip BOTH or lose 269-269 with the House electing Trump if we flip only one. If we lose 11 EVs or more from the list below, those 2 districts do not matter at all. The odds of Bernie flipping AZ or NC are very, very low, and IA (Hillary won only 41.74% of the vote in 2016) chances are also very low, especially if Bernie loses FL and WI. OH, TX, IN, GA, and MO are in the delusional category as states to place as possible R to D flips with Sanders at the top of the ticket, especially if the economy holds up to any sort of extent.
Lose FL and then ONE of the following states or pairs (given the 2 split districts I already covered, and those only matter for the 9 or 10 EV states/pairs anyway) and we lose
MI
or
PA
or
WI
or
CO
or
MN
or
VA
or
WA
or
NJ
or
NV+NH
or
OR+NH
or
NM+NH
or
OR+NM
or
OR+NV
or
NV+NM
or
CT+NH (CT as a pair partner is added due to it being an insurance centre, which Sanders puts at risk)
or
CT+NM
or
CT+OR
or
CT+NV
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LexVegas
(6,057 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Celerity
(43,299 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
democratisphere
(17,235 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
JackInGreen
(2,975 posts)To be ruled by one state or anothers decision, this is a good example of shit being broken.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Freddie
(9,259 posts)We have the EC. We already won 2 elections only to have us get screwed by the EC. We cant afford that again and have to plan our campaign around this reality. Repugs are counting on the same thing happening in Nov. and dont give a flying f** that the majority of humans in this country dont want them.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
MFM008
(19,804 posts)It will be 1988 again.
Sanders wins west coast states and the usual
Blue states like Vermont.
Maybe 10. Thats it.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
empedocles
(15,751 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Celerity
(43,299 posts)He may win ME-1, but a reduced margin could hand Trump the at large delegate.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Mike 03
(16,616 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Celerity
(43,299 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Tom Rinaldo
(22,912 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Celerity
(43,299 posts)results with a Bernie topped ticket.
MI, MN, CO, VA, and NV could all or partially go Trump as well
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BilltheCat
(65 posts)I'm not sure we even would get MD and Washington.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Celerity
(43,299 posts)these are the lowest % states for Rump in 2016
Oregon I put red in this worst case map as the spread (11%) is a lower there than WA (16%) and a LOT lower than in MD (26%)
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BilltheCat
(65 posts)You may well be right on Oregon. Outside of Portland it certainly isn't the blue bastion people think and it is much smaller than seattle to offset the rest of the state.
MD I am less sure of as the Democratic vote in MD is solidly PoC. I can't see them turning out in big numbers for Bernie Sanders.
Thank you!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Celerity
(43,299 posts)Massive cleavage in terms of age versus Biden. Millennials and under break to Bernie, older ones to Biden.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BilltheCat
(65 posts)Sorry but polls are so unreliable and with the GOP and Russians willfully targeting them I wouldn't give them a bean of credibility at this point.
The interviews last night with live PoC Democrats in SC showed not one of them supporting BS. I don't know a single PoC personally that doesn't think he's a surefire ticket for another term of Dottard and loss of the House.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Celerity
(43,299 posts)of evidence, which is statistically meaningless.
There were other focus groups with black Bernie supporters on the same network, so you are also being selective with yoursingle sample.
as for this statement
You must not know many, especially my age cohort of 18 to 30yo (I am 24, 1996-born, dead in the middle of the Zennial micro-gen (born 1992-1998, the bridge micro gen between late millennials and early Gen Z)
I am a realist, and do not try to spin up or spin away every single thing I come up against that is not to my liking.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
if you exclude my friends, relatives (from interracial marriages in my family) people at the black evangelical church we attend , etc I guess I don't know that many.
look we can all believe what we want to believe. to me at the end of the day what I want is the person who can have the strongest shot and PLAN to get rid of Dottard, and not to just wing it and hope God is on our side.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Celerity
(43,299 posts)well, but I am not going to deny reality simply because I disagree with the choices of many of my fellow black voters. It is ludicrous to claim that there is not a significant amount of black support for Sanders. I do not mean to sound harsh toward you, but I don't do reality denial well, sorry.
cheers
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Magoo48
(4,705 posts)Be afraid, be very afraid.
Hummm...where have we seen this tactic before.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Celerity
(43,299 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)It's all based on predictions of an event almost a year out on data that won't even be relevant by then.
The only math is making the numbers look right.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Celerity
(43,299 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Happy Hoosier
(7,283 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BilltheCat
(65 posts)and that's leaving aside other things I care about like labor unions, the environment, women's rights, a functioning Justice Dept, the courts and a few other minor details. seems to me this was not the time to take crazy risks hoping against all evidence that God is on our side and it will all work out.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
TheCowsCameHome
(40,168 posts)we'll have a better handle on how things will pan out.
Fingers crossed. We can't let 2020 slip away.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)He may be able to manipulate the party to squeak out the nomination... but America won't have it. Say hello to EIGHT years of Trump. Say goodbye to a balanced Supreme Court. Say goodbye to Roe. Watch marriage equality start to be nibbled away slowly but surely until there's nothing left but a dying stem.
The DNC really screwed up. I'm ready for the party to choose our nominee... the old image of smoke-filled convention hall meeting rooms looks pretty good to me right now.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
TheCowsCameHome
(40,168 posts)The word "socialist", rightly or wrongly, sends many voters running for the exits.
There is far too much at stake this time.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
still_one
(92,122 posts)where is the electoral college located, and do they offer a degree in WTF?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Thank you.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
still_one
(92,122 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Voltaire2
(13,003 posts)So losing Florida is always a possibility, socialist or no socialist.
Was that your point?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Just_Vote_Dem
(2,802 posts)I'm a liberal who supports the Democratic party platform, who voted for Clinton in the general. Does that make me a "centrist"? Just curious.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to Just_Vote_Dem (Reply #11)
Post removed
Just_Vote_Dem
(2,802 posts)I can think of Manchin right away, but not many others.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
TwilightZone
(25,456 posts)To some Sanders supporters, everything to the right of Bernie is centrist or right-wing, as demonstrated in that post.
Manchin isn't even a right-winger. He's a moderate.
https://www.ontheissues.org/Joe_Manchin_III.htm
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Just_Vote_Dem
(2,802 posts)Didn't think he was really that conservative
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Celerity
(43,299 posts)as tits on a bull. They are slanted to project certain outcomes (from most all that I have seen posted here) and make little differentiation between people who are clearly farther apart in reality. Manchin would be on the rightward side of many centre-right parties here in vast swathes of the EU (I am Los Angeles-born, London-raised, and live in Sweden atm.) The US has been artificially slid so far to right overall that all perspective has been lost when doing any sort of trans-national political-philosophical comparative analysis.
I say all this as a very outspoken critic of Sanders who thinks his nomination by our Party would be electoral suicide, not just for POTUS, but the House as well, given the reactionary character of the overarching zeitgeist that pervades inside the American nation-state.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Happy Hoosier
(7,283 posts)You will eventually be called a Centrist, or even a Conservative.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
RandiFan1290
(6,229 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Celerity
(43,299 posts)when the 2 split districts are taken into account as I posited. Even flipping one is not good enough in most of the cases, and flipping both (highly doubtful) stills leaves many of those in play. Add in 2 or more from the list and NOTHING saves us.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
FM123
(10,053 posts)As a Floridian living in a blue county (Broward) my fear of losing FL is tied to the fact that we have 4 trumpy republicans at the helm: Secretary of State Laurel Lee who is chief of elections along with trump's lapdog governor DeSantis and the worst senators ever - Marco Rubio and Rick Scott. This core four of rotten repugs must be factored into the equation regardless of who our eventual candidate is.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Happy Hoosier
(7,283 posts)It's another for it to become a virtual certainty. With Sanders as the nominee it is a certainty. And what doe we get in return? Not bloody much.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
W_HAMILTON
(7,859 posts)...while many of the more moderate Democratic candidates actually flipped House seats there, including two women that came out against Sanders's comments (regarding Castro) yesterday.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
mitch96
(13,890 posts)So Fla is democrat and so is the Orlando area.. Other than that it's pretty red YMMV
m
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Tom Rinaldo
(22,912 posts)Both have large non Cuban Hispanic populations for one thing. The odds of Sanders flipping those states are MUCH higher than the odds of Trump picking up many of the states that you then go on to list in your OP: such as CT, OR, NJ, NV, NM, etc. It's more likely Sanders can pick up TX, with its large and increasingly active Hispanic voters, than Trump that could pick up NJ, CT, or OR.
And of course it should be pointed out that Trump already won FL in 2016, that Florida elected a Republican Governor in 2018, and that we lost the last U.S. Senate seat election to a Republican as well. While we would love to win FL, and though a good case can be made that Sanders is not our best candidate there, there are polls and experience from the 2016 election that points to Sanders doing better in some of the former "rust belt" states than other Democrats would.
The point is that we need to build a big blue wave in 2020 under any of our candidates. 2020 can't more or less be a rerun of 2016.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Happy Hoosier
(7,283 posts)Sanders' campaign is built upon personal loyalty to HIM. He openly disdains the "Democratic establishment." He won't have any coat tails. None. That's one reason many of us don;t support Sen. Sanders. He simply will not build a blue wave movement.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Tom Rinaldo
(22,912 posts)Backed by a huge number of repeat contribution small donors. Two things drive a blue wave; circumstances and enthusiasm. Current circumstances involve our ability to preserve our democracy, our ability to preserve our ecosystem for current, let alone future, generations, and protecting the Supreme Court from totally being consolidated for decades to come under far right control. If that isn't enough to get more Democrats to vote we have a big problem. Trump has maxed out on his mobilize his base strategy. He is already all in on it. Only Bernie Sanders consistently generates wide spread enthusiasm across all racial lines with Americans below 40. Those now 18 through 21 could not vote in the 2016 election. Sanders "owns" that age group. We need their votes in 2020.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Happy Hoosier
(7,283 posts)1) Sanders routinely dumps on the "Democratic establishment," often in the same breath he talks about Republican. That does not create "enthusiasm" for democrats.
2) The Supreme Court wasn't enough to drive all Berners last time. A significant chunk of them did not for for Clinton.
3) Core democrats will vote D up and down the ticket. But that is not enough. Bernie isn't expanding the p[arty, he is creating a cult of personality, centered on him.
4) Sanders has talked about bringing in non-voters. So far the evidence is that is either not happening, or is happening in modest numbers. Yes, Sanders "owns" young voters.
But we'll see. I think Sanders will win the nomination at this point. And if he does, we'll see if his magical turn-out predictions come true. If they do, I'll be here after election day eating crow. If they don;t, I'll be doing the "I fucking told you so" dance of lament.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Tom Rinaldo
(22,912 posts)Very few people self identify as members of "the Democratic establishment". Maybe you do, I don't, and I was a member of our local Democratic Committee for seven years (until last week actually when I gave up my seat to younger blood) including three spent as Chair. But those who do identify as members of the "Democratic establishment" might have good reason to not be happy with those words, sure. Except no doubt you consider members of the "Democratic establishment" to be "core Democrats " and, in your own words: " Core democrats will vote D up and down the ticket" Identification/membership with/in the
Democratic Party has been declining for decades as has also been the case with the Republican Party. Similar to how politicians have "run against Washington" now for years, being seen as bucking "party establishments" has been helping candidates more and more of late, just ask Jeb Bush how being seen as a candidate from the "Party Establishment" worked for him last time around. You are right that not all Sanders "supporters" voted for Clinton in the 2016 Presidential election, and you are right that they were not all "core Democrats.". Aren't "non core Democrats" the votes that we need to do better at locking in this time?
For point of reference, the backers of losing contested Presidential primary contests NEVER transfer 100% allegiance to the winning candidate. The "Party Unity My Ass" (or PUMA) Hillary supporters in 2008 did not support Obama in the General Election, and they defected at a higher rate from the Democratic ticket in that Fall than did "Bernie or Bust" (BoB's) in 2016.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
honest.abe
(8,671 posts)If you believe the polls:
AZ: https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/az/arizona_trump_vs_sanders-6808.html (Trump +5 avg)
GA: https://www.realclearpolitics.com/docs/2020/Mason-Dixon_GA.pdf (Trump +10 most recent poll)
Also, if you are thinking Sanders could flip TX.. here's this:
TX: https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/tx/texas_trump_vs_sanders-6819.html (Trump +4)
It will be a very tough road for Sanders to win a general election versus Trump.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Tom Rinaldo
(22,912 posts)By definition that is not "very low" odds, nine months out.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
honest.abe
(8,671 posts)More than 5 points better than Sanders vs Trump.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
dalton99a
(81,442 posts)with a socialist ticket
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
USALiberal
(10,877 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Celerity
(43,299 posts)to 269 EV's or more that are in play, given the others I discussed.
I fully expect, if Bernie is top of the ticket, to lose far more than just one of those 18 possibilities.
My gut feeling, is as of today, this following map would be the results with a Bernie nomination and the economy not going into free-fall
MI, MN, CO, VA, and NV could all or partially go Trump as well
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Jake Stern
(3,145 posts)Yes I said "never". As in not happening, not a chance.
Read more: https://www.coloradopols.com/the-big-line-2020
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Celerity
(43,299 posts)all I did was lay out any remotely possible additional losses of big enough size to lose the general, thus CO was added to the list
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
kentuck
(111,078 posts)Which candidate do we expect will change that outcome in 2020??
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Fiendish Thingy
(15,569 posts)Current projections (which will almost certainly change as November draws closer) are a narrow margin of 278-260 for Dems - basically a one state margin, without Florida.
Rachel had a Super PAC director on last night outlining this margin; they will spend $150 million BEFORE the convention on anti-Trump ads.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Celerity
(43,299 posts)and Oregon can stay Blue (which I think it probably will) and that still doesn't change the vast majority of those at risk states.
Sanders at the top is truly massive dice roll, with the odds of a loss quite high, and he is the one candidate who truly puts us losing the House as a viable scenario into play.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
thesquanderer
(11,986 posts)...and maybe Bloomberg (too early to be sure since there's only been a single poll).
So this analysis applies to almost everyone.
My version of this is simpler:
Whoever we nominate needs to win Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, and Michigan. I assume the states Hillary won are the lowest hanging fruit, they are full of people who already preferred an "underwater in favorables" candidate over Trump. So while certainly not assured, I assume that those states are more likely than not to go to ANY candidate we put up. So we need the three key states she lost.
We can afford to lose in those key swing states only if we pick up another less likely (but not impossible) state, like Florida, Ohio, or Texas.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Celerity
(43,299 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
thesquanderer
(11,986 posts)We're unlikely to get Texas with any candidate, but Sanders is polling as at least giving us some shot
see https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287457401
It's not just the one poll, since numerous other polls show him within the MoE
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/tx/texas_trump_vs_sanders-6819.html
As for Ohio, the polling isn't terrible, there just hasn't been enough of it.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/oh/ohio_trump_vs_sanders-6764.html
As I said, WI/MI/PA is where it's at... but it's not entirely impossible that he could pick up some other prize that allows at least one of those to fall away.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Celerity
(43,299 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
thesquanderer
(11,986 posts)I'm just saying it's not impossible, either. Like I said, it's more about WI/PA/MI. And Sanders is actually pretty well positioned there. I think Biden is the only other candidate routinely polling well in those states...?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Celerity
(43,299 posts)I love Bernie's programmes, I live under a social democratic (NOT SOCIALIST) expansive welfare state here in Sweden that is very close to his APPARENT vision but they are unpassable in the US and they will sink him in the general.
I hate his false labelling as a democratic socialist which has helped to open this whole shitstorm and will kill so many vulnerable Dem's chances in the House if he tops the ticket.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Alliepoo
(2,215 posts)Its just not going to happen. Wish I could say otherwise but I just dont see it. Too many narrow minded, white, so called Christian olds in this state and let me tell you they turn out in droves for elections. Ive never seen so many wrinkled up white haired old people at the polls as a few years ago when weed was the issue- where the youth vote was supposed to prevail. Now, substitute Socialism and Commie for weed and you better watch out for the silver stampede. The young are not reliable voters and they arent gonna do squat for BS in November.Add to that a bunch of dirty dog repubs in charge of the state and voting. And fwiw-Im an old, too!! Just not one of those olds.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
squirecam
(2,706 posts)On the ticket to have a prayer of winning the Midwest.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
democrattotheend
(11,605 posts)Recent polls showed that. Plus, at least since 2000, it hasn't been the closest swing state by any means. Obama won it twice by narrow margins, but he would have won without it. Every other Democrat has lost there. Since at least 2004, it seems that if a Democrat can win Florida, they can also win without Florida.
And I don't see Connecticut or Oregon being at risk. Oregon should be a Bernie stronghold, if anything. And if we are in danger of losing Oregon and Connecticut we wouldn't have a chance in Florida anyway.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Celerity
(43,299 posts)are more likely that others
I would put (assuming FL is a loss)
the biggest states (and one pair) at risk of being lost, and thus tossing the election to Trump, as
WI
or
PA
or
MI
or
MN
or
NV+NH
only one of those needs to be a loss for us and we are well and truly fucked more than likely unless we somehow flip BOTH ME-2 and NE-2, and even that will not help if the one we lose is PA or MI or if NH is paired with WI or MN as a losing pair
here would be the losing map given the last example (and choosing WI to stay red, although MN is also worth 10 EV's as well so the same maths)
this is flipping BOTH ME-2 and NE-2 BLUE (very unlikely though, to happen, even flipping one will be so hard), plus the obvious FL loss, and then sweeping ALL other of the races listed save for WI and NH (NV would do the same thing as NH, just add 2 more EV's to Rump)
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
democrattotheend
(11,605 posts)And probably Michigan as well. If anything, he's probably the strongest contender in some of those states. For example, Wisconsin and Minnesota especially have a history of supporting independents and progressives.
I do think Pennsylvania and maybe Michigan might be a little tougher for Bernie than some of the others because of his environmental policies. OTOH, his experience representing a rural state and ability to connect with rural and blue-collar voters might help him there. I just remembered that Bernie won the Michigan primary in 2016, which I think was a bit of a surprise. Primary success is not always indicative of general election success, but there is some correlation, especially in a year like 2016 when both sides had contested primaries.
Biden should be our strongest candidate in Pennsylvania, although if I recall the polls haven't shown a huge difference between him and Bernie in head to head matchups there.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Celerity
(43,299 posts)He insanely keeps doubling down on the Castro and other socialist or communist dictators praise and/or mitigation.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
democrattotheend
(11,605 posts)And like I said before, while I agree Bernie would be weaker in Florida than the others (and we've known this all along), I think he's just as strong if not stronger in Wisconsin and Michigan, and at least so far, not significantly weaker in PA. And I think it's unlikely that any of our candidates both 1) wins Florida and 2) wins by such a narrow margin that they need Florida. If Florida is going blue, enough other states are going blue that we don't need it.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Celerity
(43,299 posts)losing Florida (a given with him at the top)
and STILL losing the general
via ANY of ONE following losses
VA
or
NV+NH
or
NH+NM
or
NM+NV
or
CO
or
MN
or
NJ
or
CT+NV (again CT is home to a huge insurance industry)
or
CT+NM
or
CT+NH
there is NO other candidate who would win WI,MI, and WI and yet lose
so WHY would we risk this????? (and I still have massive doubts he wins all 3 of WI, PA, and MI)
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
democrattotheend
(11,605 posts)I used to live there, and I think Bernie could have trouble, but I am actually concerned about the state for all of the Democrats, because Democrats took over the state legislature in 2019 and have been passing a ton of progressive legislation really fast, which is great, but I'm concerned they are overreaching and forgetting how red the state used to be in the recent past. This could hurt any Democrat running for president, but probably Bernie and Warren more than the others.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
rockfordfile
(8,701 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
democrattotheend
(11,605 posts)I said if the Democratic candidate is able to win Florida, he or she probably would have been able to win without Florida. Florida is a bit to the right of the country as a whole. I'd love to win it, but I don't think it will be the deciding state like it was in 2000.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ebbie15644
(1,214 posts)I do not believe Bernie can win PA. It's not a young state tends to be more conservative and backed trump in 2016. More older people than younger.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Celerity
(43,299 posts)yet I have people who are telling me Bernie not only wins ALL of those (AND that even FL will be a lock for a Bernie win), but that he also puts NC and TX and OH and IN and GA and AZ and MO ALL in play, some going so far as to say he wins most or all of those!
It is, IMHO, dangerously delusional, a massive dice roll when the stakes are potential union-ending down the road.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
melman
(7,681 posts)What the hell? There is no way Trump wins CT.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Celerity
(43,299 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
melman
(7,681 posts)That it isn't possible. Even remotely.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Celerity
(43,299 posts)even taking it away hardly changes the crux of the biscuit
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)Some rando on the internet declaring it so doesn't make it true.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
BilltheCat
(65 posts)I heard from friends in central florida retirement meccas that the GOP is already promoting M4A as taking funds away from current retirees health care. Unfortunately I'm not sure they won't easily tar the entire party with that given all the money that they have to run continuous commercials and all the networks the evangelical volunteers have in Florida.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided