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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!
 

Celerity

(42,674 posts)
Thu Dec 5, 2019, 11:45 PM Dec 2019

More that was left out of Buttigieg's response about deficits

Mayor Pete expanded on this in the gaggle: “I believe every Presidency of my lifetime has been an example of deficits growing under Republican government and shrinking under Democratic government, but ... my party’s got to get more comfortable talking about this issue” “And we shouldn't be afraid to demonstrate that we have the revenue to cover every cost that we incur in the investments that we’re proposing.”







Buttigieg campaign estimates about 1050 people for Mayor Pete's Exeter townhall right now

"If you’d rather have a private plan that’s fine by me as long as you’re covered one way or another," Buttigieg says to applause here


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
46 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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More that was left out of Buttigieg's response about deficits (Original Post) Celerity Dec 2019 OP
Not good enough...Playing footsie with NH independents by using RW frames BeyondGeography Dec 2019 #1
I just watched that and O'Donnell was extremely disingenuous Celerity Dec 2019 #2
He's trying to have it both ways by presenting himself as more principled than the typical Democrat BeyondGeography Dec 2019 #4
And squirecam Dec 2019 #5
And was the Great Recession good enough? crazytown Dec 2019 #9
Obama squirecam Dec 2019 #17
actually Obama didn't add enough debt during his term dsc Dec 2019 #45
The debt has went up under every POTUS since Reagan Celerity Dec 2019 #7
He took a potshot at his own party knowing we've been more responsible than Republicans BeyondGeography Dec 2019 #10
he didn't take a potshot, that is spin, nothing more, and comparing percentage of increase Celerity Dec 2019 #14
actually percent is a very valid way of measuring this dsc Dec 2019 #46
"knowing we've been more responsible than Republicans"...which is exactly what the OP said he... phleshdef Dec 2019 #15
Right squirecam Dec 2019 #19
He only made the clarification three hours later when reporters caught up to him BeyondGeography Dec 2019 #20
Indeed. crazytown Dec 2019 #11
lol, that is one of the most pure strawmen I have seen in ages, congrats! Celerity Dec 2019 #18
The rationale for Tory austerity, repeated ad nauseam, crazytown Dec 2019 #23
non sequitur Celerity Dec 2019 #25
I lived and worked in the UK for three years crazytown Dec 2019 #26
Let's squirecam Dec 2019 #21
I seem to remember Mondale ran on getting the deficit /debt under control. crazytown Dec 2019 #24
Because squirecam Dec 2019 #31
Warren has produced accounting for her spending promises. crazytown Dec 2019 #33
So squirecam Dec 2019 #35
What is Amy proposing? crazytown Dec 2019 #38
Pete is talking about how the parties are perceived AngelicaHora Dec 2019 #8
He is a sterling man of principle with no ulterior motives? BeyondGeography Dec 2019 #12
Ah yes, the "far left"makes everything worse. LesterT Dec 2019 #16
So squirecam Dec 2019 #22
The problem is not dough. LesterT Dec 2019 #27
Since that won't happen..... squirecam Dec 2019 #28
I'm not in opposition to any tidbit that improves the well being of the struggling. LesterT Dec 2019 #29
Well squirecam Dec 2019 #34
"We" did not make any mess. LesterT Dec 2019 #37
And those who assisted them and Russia, either wittingly or not to damage HRC's candidacy ehrnst Dec 2019 #42
Message auto-removed Name removed Dec 2019 #43
This message was self-deleted by its author TidalWave46 Dec 2019 #3
Oh he had 1000 people at the event judeling Dec 2019 #6
So basically he said, Dems good, Republicans bad... Dems need not be afraid to talk about taxes. phleshdef Dec 2019 #13
No it wasn't judeling Dec 2019 #30
If they can't handle debt questions BootinUp Dec 2019 #32
Of course they can handle judeling Dec 2019 #39
Everyone has has an opinion. Nt BootinUp Dec 2019 #41
This whole incident shows Pete can't handle the debt question. BuffaloJackalope Dec 2019 #44
You squirecam Dec 2019 #36
Yeah, it was ... (nt) mr_lebowski Dec 2019 #40
 

BeyondGeography

(39,285 posts)
1. Not good enough...Playing footsie with NH independents by using RW frames
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 12:04 AM
Dec 2019

lands you in hot water:

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Celerity

(42,674 posts)
2. I just watched that and O'Donnell was extremely disingenuous
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 12:24 AM
Dec 2019

He blithely blew past the part where Pete said

“I believe every Presidency of my lifetime has been an example of deficits growing under Republican government and shrinking under Democratic government


and dismissed that only because Pete did not mention Obama and Clinton by name, which is pure pettifogging by O'Donnell.

Also, Pete's statement that it is up TO US DEMOCRATS as the only ones who are going to fix Rump's exploding deficits and debt is far from controversial.

I find it ridiculous when no one has a fit (other than their supporters) when people ask Warren and Sanders how they are going to pay for their programmes, but now it is hair-on-fire outrage when another candidate simply says that he shows how he pays for his. The National Debt is a big problem, it is a national security issue, and it is utterly irresponsible to demand via false inferences about 'Republican talking points' etc etc that it should be cut out of the conversation.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

BeyondGeography

(39,285 posts)
4. He's trying to have it both ways by presenting himself as more principled than the typical Democrat
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 12:37 AM
Dec 2019

How is that statement about Democrats shrinking the deficit and Republicans growing it compatible with this?:

“My party’s not known for worrying about the deficit or the debt too much but it’s time for us to start getting into that.”

When Pete was in diapers, Reagan tripled the national debt. People like Lawrence worked alongside Democrats who dealt with the fallout of that, making politically difficult choices on the budget only to be called tax-and-spenders by Republicans. Pete was going to take a hit for this, I could have told you that this afternoon.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

squirecam

(2,706 posts)
5. And
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 12:44 AM
Dec 2019

What have we done about the actual debt since 1993.

The deficit was cut by Obama. Not nearly good enough.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

crazytown

(7,277 posts)
9. And was the Great Recession good enough?
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 01:03 AM
Dec 2019

You know, the one bequeathed to Obama.

What budgetary policy would you advocate when the economy is falling through the floor. Unemployment was still 8% in 2012. Cut fast and deep then, and snuff out the recovery? Note: FDR 1937.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

squirecam

(2,706 posts)
17. Obama
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 01:15 AM
Dec 2019

Was better than rethugs.

But there was no debt reduction. Only deficit.

I would raise taxes and use any Warren wealth tax to reduce the deficit AND pay the debt. 50/50 on new spending and debt payments.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

dsc

(52,130 posts)
45. actually Obama didn't add enough debt during his term
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 09:37 PM
Dec 2019

He should have borrowed way more from 2009 to 2011.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Celerity

(42,674 posts)
7. The debt has went up under every POTUS since Reagan
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 12:57 AM
Dec 2019

Neither Clinton or Obama were able to reduce it.

We already know it explodes under Rethugs. Trump is a DISASTER there.

If we as a Party do not do something about it, no one will.



If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

BeyondGeography

(39,285 posts)
10. He took a potshot at his own party knowing we've been more responsible than Republicans
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 01:05 AM
Dec 2019

because he was in New Hampshire sucking up to independents who can vote in the primary. He deserves every bit of the scorn he is getting and will get for this.

For the record:

Reagan

Started Presidency: $965 billion
Ended Presidency: $2.74 trillion
Increased 184% or 13.9% per year

H.W. Bush

Started Presidency: $2.74 trillion
Ended Presidency: $4.23 trillion
Increased 54% or 11.5% per year (only in office for four years)

Clinton

Started Presidency: $4.23 trillion
Ended Presidency: $5.77 trillion
Increased 36% or 4.0% per year

W. Bush

Started Presidency: $5.77 trillion
Ended Presidency: $11.1 trillion
Increased 93% or 8.5% per year

Obama

Started Presidency: $11.1 trillion
Ended Presidency: $19.85 trillion
Increased 78% or 7.5% per year

https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckjones/2018/01/15/obamas-federal-debt-grew-at-a-slower-rate-than-reagan-h-w-bush-or-w-bush/#3754a21c1917
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Celerity

(42,674 posts)
14. he didn't take a potshot, that is spin, nothing more, and comparing percentage of increase
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 01:10 AM
Dec 2019

versus actual monetary increase is very misleading, as the higher the total gets, even a smaller increase in percentage of growth rate translates out to massive amounts of actual accumulation.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

dsc

(52,130 posts)
46. actually percent is a very valid way of measuring this
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 09:40 PM
Dec 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

phleshdef

(11,936 posts)
15. "knowing we've been more responsible than Republicans"...which is exactly what the OP said he...
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 01:11 AM
Dec 2019

...pointed out.

As I said in a post below, I was pissed when I heard the initial comments, but in full context, he really didn't say anything wrong. And he isn't even in my top 3 of candidates that I prefer.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

squirecam

(2,706 posts)
19. Right
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 01:17 AM
Dec 2019

We’ve been better. But not good enough.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

BeyondGeography

(39,285 posts)
20. He only made the clarification three hours later when reporters caught up to him
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 01:18 AM
Dec 2019

and he still stuck it to Democrats.

I’m sure Biden will have something interesting to say about this tomorrow.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

crazytown

(7,277 posts)
11. Indeed.
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 01:06 AM
Dec 2019

Let's have some Tory UK austerity.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Celerity

(42,674 posts)
18. lol, that is one of the most pure strawmen I have seen in ages, congrats!
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 01:16 AM
Dec 2019

Exactly ZERO of any of our candidates has suggested any sort of austerity.

Then again, supporters of MFA think anything short of that is austerity, so perhaps they have a new definition.

I already see that 'Right Wing Talking Points' has been redefined to mean anything that Bernie disagrees with, so maybe there is yet hope to redefine austerity into some cudgel to attack anyone who disagrees with anything that is proposed by far left as well.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

crazytown

(7,277 posts)
23. The rationale for Tory austerity, repeated ad nauseam,
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 01:25 AM
Dec 2019

was the size of the national debt, was it not?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Celerity

(42,674 posts)
25. non sequitur
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 01:36 AM
Dec 2019

BTW, seeing as you seem to have an interest in my other country of citizenship's politics (I am a dual US/UK citizen), you should wander over to the UK group and see how many (depressingly so) Lib Dem supporters there are. The Lib Dems propped up the rotter Cameron and his Tory scum government's austerity regime for years.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

crazytown

(7,277 posts)
26. I lived and worked in the UK for three years
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 01:44 AM
Dec 2019

Thatcher left an indelible impression on my politics. What I've seen in the US is Murdoch bringing his Sun/News Of The World shit across the pond. The dishonesty of it reminds me a lot of the '80s.

The Lib/Dems paid the price for their collaboration. But I think tuition fees had something to it

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

squirecam

(2,706 posts)
21. Let's
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 01:18 AM
Dec 2019

Spend spend spend because dick was right and deficits dont matter....

No thanks. I don’t want our kids saddled with our spending.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

crazytown

(7,277 posts)
24. I seem to remember Mondale ran on getting the deficit /debt under control.
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 01:33 AM
Dec 2019


That went down well didn't it? That is why the clip is in the GOP War Room.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

squirecam

(2,706 posts)
31. Because
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 02:05 AM
Dec 2019

Warren promises will be any better?

The debt needs to be reduced. Taxes need to be raised.

We can lie to the voters, but I disagree with that. At least Amy is telling them the truth that they need to hear.

Oh and guess what. Mondale was RIGHT. Guess who raised taxes in 1986.....

https://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/sep/25/stephen-colbert/stephen-colbert-brings-ronald-reagans-tax-raising-/

https://thinkprogress.org/flashback-ronald-reagan-raised-corporate-taxes-to-force-tax-dodgers-to-pay-their-fair-share-ca9803bdf240/

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

crazytown

(7,277 posts)
33. Warren has produced accounting for her spending promises.
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 02:13 AM
Dec 2019

One may disagree with the assumptions but it's there.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

squirecam

(2,706 posts)
35. So
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 02:16 AM
Dec 2019

Does she reduce the debt? Or let it continue increasing for future generations to pay.

And you agree, then, that what Mondale said was actually true.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

crazytown

(7,277 posts)
38. What is Amy proposing?
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 02:39 AM
Dec 2019

Where is her policy to produce a surplus on her site? Future generations are more concerned the planet does not burn.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

AngelicaHora

(54 posts)
8. Pete is talking about how the parties are perceived
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 01:03 AM
Dec 2019

We might be the ones that fix it but the GOP are the ones always using it as an argument and appearing to be more concerned about it. Pete's whole point is that Democrats should be known as the party that is fiscally responsible, because we are. Right now we are "not known" for that, at least not enough. And it's made worse by all these trillion dollar proposals from the far left.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

BeyondGeography

(39,285 posts)
12. He is a sterling man of principle with no ulterior motives?
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 01:08 AM
Dec 2019

Actually, no. He’s cynically playing for independent votes using a RW frame. Screw that.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

LesterT

(41 posts)
16. Ah yes, the "far left"makes everything worse.
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 01:15 AM
Dec 2019

Certainly not the trillions being funneled to the military and the wealthy in tax cuts. Blame the "far left".

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

squirecam

(2,706 posts)
22. So
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 01:20 AM
Dec 2019

Let’s reverse the tax cuts and use any wealth tax 50/50 between new spending and debt reduction.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

LesterT

(41 posts)
27. The problem is not dough.
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 01:51 AM
Dec 2019

There's plenty of it. The problem is it's being funneled into the wrong hands and with the wrong priorities in mind. Don't be horrified at the thought but the late socialist Eugene Debs had it exactly right a long time ago. How much more true today with the levels of wealth floating around. You don't have to be a socialist to understand the sentiment put forth. The basic necessities of survival really need to be removed from the clutches of private ownership at the very least.

"There is no longer the shadow of an excuse for a hungry being. All the laws, all the materials and all the forces are at hand and easily available for the production of all things needed to provide food, raiment and shelter for every man, woman and child, thus putting an end to the poverty and misery, widespread and appalling, which now shock and sicken humanity and impeach our vaunted civilization. But these tools and materials and forces must be released from private ownership and control, socialized, democratized, and set in operation for the common good of all instead of the private profit of the few."



If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

squirecam

(2,706 posts)
28. Since that won't happen.....
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 01:53 AM
Dec 2019

Why not go with my plan. Wealth tax. 50/50 spending and debt payment.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

LesterT

(41 posts)
29. I'm not in opposition to any tidbit that improves the well being of the struggling.
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 02:00 AM
Dec 2019

As an intermediate step to the working class gaining the power to control its own destiny of course

Tell me how this you've mentioned is applied in that respect.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

squirecam

(2,706 posts)
34. Well
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 02:14 AM
Dec 2019

By splitting a wealth tax 50/50 between new spending and debt reduction, we help the kids pay for the mess we made, by taking the $ from those who benefitted with the tax cuts that exploded the debt in the first place.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

LesterT

(41 posts)
37. "We" did not make any mess.
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 02:36 AM
Dec 2019

The mess created lies entirely at the feet of a sliver of the population - that makes up the capitalist ruling class - attempting to privatize this entire rock at the expense of the majority. Many benefited from this of course. They are not my concern. Some will skate through unscathed. Some will pay the price for their complicity in the whole charade. If the Great Depression and 2008 recently tells us anything, it tells us that nobody is immune from the ravages of capitalism and private ownership run amok. There will be many more interesting times before the "end of history" is etched in stone.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
42. And those who assisted them and Russia, either wittingly or not to damage HRC's candidacy
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 09:24 AM
Dec 2019

by spreading smears and lies about her planted by Russia and the GOP targeted to the Left, leading to the WH being stolen by this sliver.

And those who remained silent when they were told about it being done in their name.

There's some blame to go around there for the current decimation of our democratic institutions.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

Response to ehrnst (Reply #42)

Response to Celerity (Original post)

 

judeling

(1,086 posts)
6. Oh he had 1000 people at the event
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 12:52 AM
Dec 2019

so of course it was all good.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

phleshdef

(11,936 posts)
13. So basically he said, Dems good, Republicans bad... Dems need not be afraid to talk about taxes.
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 01:09 AM
Dec 2019

I was a little pissed when I read the initial comments but obviously he has been grossly mischaracterized.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

judeling

(1,086 posts)
30. No it wasn't
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 02:01 AM
Dec 2019

mischaracterized. It was Pete trying to be slick and get a dig in.

Then four hours later he danced back a little, but put a little tag in.

He made what he thought was a sly attack on Warren. Instead he has managed to hurt himself and with just a little bad luck going to force all of the candidates to answer Debt questions.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

BootinUp

(46,928 posts)
32. If they can't handle debt questions
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 02:11 AM
Dec 2019

then we don't need them in a General Election.

As far as the details of what was said when, Ill wait for more reporting, Pete doesn't make mistakes.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

judeling

(1,086 posts)
39. Of course they can handle
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 03:01 AM
Dec 2019

a Debt question.

Which is why I am so pissed at Pete. You know what the Republican for fiscal responsibility is?

Tax and Spend.

The way he answered that question opened up a can of worms. The Nit Wit has now opened up the door to the media obsession of the only way to control the Debt is to cut entitlements.

I cannot tell you how absolutely stupid the framing he presented is. He dropped way down on my list with this.

The saving grace is that impeachment is likely to over take it. But if he gets through to the nomination he better have a good answer.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

BootinUp

(46,928 posts)
41. Everyone has has an opinion. Nt
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 09:06 AM
Dec 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

BuffaloJackalope

(818 posts)
44. This whole incident shows Pete can't handle the debt question.
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 08:06 PM
Dec 2019

He's a Harvard graduate, for chrissakes. He should know better.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

squirecam

(2,706 posts)
36. You
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 02:20 AM
Dec 2019

Support Amy. She has a debt plan.

I look forward to her stating her plan in a debate. So should you.

Let the other candidates agree with Darth Cheney, or have an actual plan.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

mr_lebowski

(33,643 posts)
40. Yeah, it was ... (nt)
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 03:02 AM
Dec 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
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