Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumMore that was left out of Buttigieg's response about deficits
Mayor Pete expanded on this in the gaggle: I believe every Presidency of my lifetime has been an example of deficits growing under Republican government and shrinking under Democratic government, but ... my partys got to get more comfortable talking about this issue And we shouldn't be afraid to demonstrate that we have the revenue to cover every cost that we incur in the investments that were proposing.
Link to tweet
Link to tweet
Buttigieg campaign estimates about 1050 people for Mayor Pete's Exeter townhall right now
"If youd rather have a private plan thats fine by me as long as youre covered one way or another," Buttigieg says to applause here
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BeyondGeography
(39,285 posts)lands you in hot water:
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Celerity
(42,674 posts)He blithely blew past the part where Pete said
and dismissed that only because Pete did not mention Obama and Clinton by name, which is pure pettifogging by O'Donnell.
Also, Pete's statement that it is up TO US DEMOCRATS as the only ones who are going to fix Rump's exploding deficits and debt is far from controversial.
I find it ridiculous when no one has a fit (other than their supporters) when people ask Warren and Sanders how they are going to pay for their programmes, but now it is hair-on-fire outrage when another candidate simply says that he shows how he pays for his. The National Debt is a big problem, it is a national security issue, and it is utterly irresponsible to demand via false inferences about 'Republican talking points' etc etc that it should be cut out of the conversation.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BeyondGeography
(39,285 posts)How is that statement about Democrats shrinking the deficit and Republicans growing it compatible with this?:
My partys not known for worrying about the deficit or the debt too much but its time for us to start getting into that.
When Pete was in diapers, Reagan tripled the national debt. People like Lawrence worked alongside Democrats who dealt with the fallout of that, making politically difficult choices on the budget only to be called tax-and-spenders by Republicans. Pete was going to take a hit for this, I could have told you that this afternoon.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
squirecam
(2,706 posts)What have we done about the actual debt since 1993.
The deficit was cut by Obama. Not nearly good enough.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
crazytown
(7,277 posts)You know, the one bequeathed to Obama.
What budgetary policy would you advocate when the economy is falling through the floor. Unemployment was still 8% in 2012. Cut fast and deep then, and snuff out the recovery? Note: FDR 1937.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Was better than rethugs.
But there was no debt reduction. Only deficit.
I would raise taxes and use any Warren wealth tax to reduce the deficit AND pay the debt. 50/50 on new spending and debt payments.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
dsc
(52,130 posts)He should have borrowed way more from 2009 to 2011.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Celerity
(42,674 posts)Neither Clinton or Obama were able to reduce it.
We already know it explodes under Rethugs. Trump is a DISASTER there.
If we as a Party do not do something about it, no one will.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BeyondGeography
(39,285 posts)because he was in New Hampshire sucking up to independents who can vote in the primary. He deserves every bit of the scorn he is getting and will get for this.
For the record:
Started Presidency: $965 billion
Ended Presidency: $2.74 trillion
Increased 184% or 13.9% per year
H.W. Bush
Started Presidency: $2.74 trillion
Ended Presidency: $4.23 trillion
Increased 54% or 11.5% per year (only in office for four years)
Clinton
Started Presidency: $4.23 trillion
Ended Presidency: $5.77 trillion
Increased 36% or 4.0% per year
W. Bush
Started Presidency: $5.77 trillion
Ended Presidency: $11.1 trillion
Increased 93% or 8.5% per year
Obama
Started Presidency: $11.1 trillion
Ended Presidency: $19.85 trillion
Increased 78% or 7.5% per year
https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckjones/2018/01/15/obamas-federal-debt-grew-at-a-slower-rate-than-reagan-h-w-bush-or-w-bush/#3754a21c1917
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Celerity
(42,674 posts)versus actual monetary increase is very misleading, as the higher the total gets, even a smaller increase in percentage of growth rate translates out to massive amounts of actual accumulation.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
dsc
(52,130 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
phleshdef
(11,936 posts)...pointed out.
As I said in a post below, I was pissed when I heard the initial comments, but in full context, he really didn't say anything wrong. And he isn't even in my top 3 of candidates that I prefer.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Weve been better. But not good enough.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BeyondGeography
(39,285 posts)and he still stuck it to Democrats.
Im sure Biden will have something interesting to say about this tomorrow.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Let's have some Tory UK austerity.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Celerity
(42,674 posts)Exactly ZERO of any of our candidates has suggested any sort of austerity.
Then again, supporters of MFA think anything short of that is austerity, so perhaps they have a new definition.
I already see that 'Right Wing Talking Points' has been redefined to mean anything that Bernie disagrees with, so maybe there is yet hope to redefine austerity into some cudgel to attack anyone who disagrees with anything that is proposed by far left as well.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
crazytown
(7,277 posts)was the size of the national debt, was it not?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Celerity
(42,674 posts)BTW, seeing as you seem to have an interest in my other country of citizenship's politics (I am a dual US/UK citizen), you should wander over to the UK group and see how many (depressingly so) Lib Dem supporters there are. The Lib Dems propped up the rotter Cameron and his Tory scum government's austerity regime for years.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
crazytown
(7,277 posts)Thatcher left an indelible impression on my politics. What I've seen in the US is Murdoch bringing his Sun/News Of The World shit across the pond. The dishonesty of it reminds me a lot of the '80s.
The Lib/Dems paid the price for their collaboration. But I think tuition fees had something to it
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Spend spend spend because dick was right and deficits dont matter....
No thanks. I dont want our kids saddled with our spending.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
crazytown
(7,277 posts)That went down well didn't it? That is why the clip is in the GOP War Room.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
squirecam
(2,706 posts)Warren promises will be any better?
The debt needs to be reduced. Taxes need to be raised.
We can lie to the voters, but I disagree with that. At least Amy is telling them the truth that they need to hear.
Oh and guess what. Mondale was RIGHT. Guess who raised taxes in 1986.....
https://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/sep/25/stephen-colbert/stephen-colbert-brings-ronald-reagans-tax-raising-/
https://thinkprogress.org/flashback-ronald-reagan-raised-corporate-taxes-to-force-tax-dodgers-to-pay-their-fair-share-ca9803bdf240/
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
crazytown
(7,277 posts)One may disagree with the assumptions but it's there.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Does she reduce the debt? Or let it continue increasing for future generations to pay.
And you agree, then, that what Mondale said was actually true.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
crazytown
(7,277 posts)Where is her policy to produce a surplus on her site? Future generations are more concerned the planet does not burn.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
AngelicaHora
(54 posts)We might be the ones that fix it but the GOP are the ones always using it as an argument and appearing to be more concerned about it. Pete's whole point is that Democrats should be known as the party that is fiscally responsible, because we are. Right now we are "not known" for that, at least not enough. And it's made worse by all these trillion dollar proposals from the far left.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BeyondGeography
(39,285 posts)Actually, no. Hes cynically playing for independent votes using a RW frame. Screw that.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
LesterT
(41 posts)Certainly not the trillions being funneled to the military and the wealthy in tax cuts. Blame the "far left".
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Lets reverse the tax cuts and use any wealth tax 50/50 between new spending and debt reduction.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LesterT
(41 posts)There's plenty of it. The problem is it's being funneled into the wrong hands and with the wrong priorities in mind. Don't be horrified at the thought but the late socialist Eugene Debs had it exactly right a long time ago. How much more true today with the levels of wealth floating around. You don't have to be a socialist to understand the sentiment put forth. The basic necessities of survival really need to be removed from the clutches of private ownership at the very least.
"There is no longer the shadow of an excuse for a hungry being. All the laws, all the materials and all the forces are at hand and easily available for the production of all things needed to provide food, raiment and shelter for every man, woman and child, thus putting an end to the poverty and misery, widespread and appalling, which now shock and sicken humanity and impeach our vaunted civilization. But these tools and materials and forces must be released from private ownership and control, socialized, democratized, and set in operation for the common good of all instead of the private profit of the few."
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
squirecam
(2,706 posts)Why not go with my plan. Wealth tax. 50/50 spending and debt payment.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LesterT
(41 posts)As an intermediate step to the working class gaining the power to control its own destiny of course
Tell me how this you've mentioned is applied in that respect.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
By splitting a wealth tax 50/50 between new spending and debt reduction, we help the kids pay for the mess we made, by taking the $ from those who benefitted with the tax cuts that exploded the debt in the first place.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LesterT
(41 posts)The mess created lies entirely at the feet of a sliver of the population - that makes up the capitalist ruling class - attempting to privatize this entire rock at the expense of the majority. Many benefited from this of course. They are not my concern. Some will skate through unscathed. Some will pay the price for their complicity in the whole charade. If the Great Depression and 2008 recently tells us anything, it tells us that nobody is immune from the ravages of capitalism and private ownership run amok. There will be many more interesting times before the "end of history" is etched in stone.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)by spreading smears and lies about her planted by Russia and the GOP targeted to the Left, leading to the WH being stolen by this sliver.
And those who remained silent when they were told about it being done in their name.
There's some blame to go around there for the current decimation of our democratic institutions.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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judeling
(1,086 posts)so of course it was all good.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
phleshdef
(11,936 posts)I was a little pissed when I read the initial comments but obviously he has been grossly mischaracterized.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
judeling
(1,086 posts)mischaracterized. It was Pete trying to be slick and get a dig in.
Then four hours later he danced back a little, but put a little tag in.
He made what he thought was a sly attack on Warren. Instead he has managed to hurt himself and with just a little bad luck going to force all of the candidates to answer Debt questions.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
BootinUp
(46,928 posts)then we don't need them in a General Election.
As far as the details of what was said when, Ill wait for more reporting, Pete doesn't make mistakes.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
judeling
(1,086 posts)a Debt question.
Which is why I am so pissed at Pete. You know what the Republican for fiscal responsibility is?
Tax and Spend.
The way he answered that question opened up a can of worms. The Nit Wit has now opened up the door to the media obsession of the only way to control the Debt is to cut entitlements.
I cannot tell you how absolutely stupid the framing he presented is. He dropped way down on my list with this.
The saving grace is that impeachment is likely to over take it. But if he gets through to the nomination he better have a good answer.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
BootinUp
(46,928 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BuffaloJackalope
(818 posts)He's a Harvard graduate, for chrissakes. He should know better.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Support Amy. She has a debt plan.
I look forward to her stating her plan in a debate. So should you.
Let the other candidates agree with Darth Cheney, or have an actual plan.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
mr_lebowski
(33,643 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden