Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forum6 winners and 3 losers from CNN's climate town hall
This is a fairly good article about last night's climate debate. While I do not agree with all conclusions, I certainly agree that Jay Inslee, CNN, the audience questioners and the Democratic Party are the BIG winners!
I prefer this format to the usual debate format. Thanks to CNN for presenting it.
https://www.vox.com/2019/9/5/20850009/cnn-climate-town-hall-2020-presidential-democrats-winners-and-losers
I loved that ALL our candidates believe that the fossil fuel industry MUST be restricted and curtailed.
Snippets:
The CNN climate town hall once again showed just how much the Overton window has moved for Democrats on climate change. President Obama openly boasted about increasing US fossil fuel production, fossil fuel exports, and low gasoline prices. Climate change barely came up at all in the 2016 presidential race.
Now Democrats are describing all kinds of ways they will hold the fossil fuel industry accountable for its pollution and emissions, and they are charting the course for weaning American off its products.
...
Subsidies to oil and gas companies, which all the candidates oppose, also came up; Sanders wants to end them entirely by 2050. What goes on right now is we are giving the fossil fuel industry approximately $400 billion every single year in subsidies and tax breaks, Sanders said.
Yang and Warren highlighted just how the industry has distracted and manipulated the public on climate change; Yang described how he intends to reduce the industrys influence in politics. You know how theyve been spending some of their money, their billions of dollars in profit? he said. On a misinformation campaign to the American people, and theyve taken our legislature hostage. They have the fossil fuel lobbying industry thats in the tens of millions a year.
The candidates differ in their timelines for transitioning off fossil fuels, but the forum made it clear just how unified they are in their commitment to policy that will radically restrict and curtail this industry come 2020.
It's worth a read.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
CrispyQ
(36,231 posts)That was a pleasant surprise to this long time veggie.
Loser: meat
Several candidates had to contend with variations from the audience on one of the trickiest climate questions: How will you encourage Americans to reduce meat consumption, given the disproportionate greenhouse gas emissions of beef production compared to other foods?
snip...
Several candidates also used the diet question as an opportunity to point out that Republicans have made the hypothetical threat of Democrats taking away Americans hamburgers an argument against the Green New Deal. The important thing to understand is that we can have a more balanced diet and therefore a more balanced footprint and not abolish the cow, Mayor Pete Buttigieg said. [Abolishing the cow] is what people are saying about the Green New Deal. Because its an easy Republican talking point.
Buttigieg noted that his carbon tax applied to meat would help curb meat consumption by demonstrating to consumers the climate costs of meat production. We change the economic signal and bring it into balance, and balance is what we have lost when it comes to our relationship with creation, with the Earth, that sustains our ability to live, he said.
Booker, who is vegan, suggested that his administration would also rein in subsidies to the meat and dairy industry. We are going to have to make sure our government is not subsidizing the things that make us sick and unhealthy and hurt our environment and start to incentivize the practices that get farming and get agriculture and get the health of our communities back. Eliza Barclay
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Amimnoch
(4,558 posts)Great idea, but is it a winning one??
Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan.. all heavy Dairy producing industry states. I can already envision the tRumpublican ad/smear campaigns..
The meat side won't have so much 2020 impact I think, but any attack on dairy is going to feed their campaign machine imo.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
BlueMTexpat
(15,349 posts)But I still love a good steak every so often.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
RobertDevereaux
(1,841 posts)Here, in a nutshell, are their "winners" and "losers."
Each section of the article contains a rationale for so designating them.
Winner: Jay Inslee
Winner: the Sunrise Movement
Winner: Bernie Sanders
Winner: the audience questioners
Winner: CNN
Winner: the Democratic Party
Loser: Joe Biden
Loser: oil and gas companies
Loser: meat
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
BannonsLiver
(16,162 posts)Bernie is the big winner at Vox and Biden is the big loser.
What a surprise.
Thanks for saving me the trouble of reading what amounts to a press release from the media wing of the Sanders campaign.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
oasis
(49,152 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
cwydro
(51,308 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
CaliforniaPeggy
(149,308 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BlueMTexpat
(15,349 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
at140
(6,110 posts)which is the extraordinary leadership necessary to address the coming financial collapse, which will be worse than in 2008-2009. More people are going to lose more money when this occurs again. Bush-43 created the 2008 financial collapse, and Trump has laid the groundwork for the next collapse.
The formula remains the same. Give tax breaks to the richest 10%, screw the rest, push for artificial low interest rates which create gigantic asset bubbles and the inevitable giant pop, record breaking budget deficits, unnecessary ballooning of military expenditures,,,,,,on and on.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)Biden is seen as a "loser." Of all those candidates, except for Inslee's accomplishments in WA while he's been the governor, Biden is actually the one with the longest, strongest overall record of commitment to all the issues -- environmental, energy, fresh water, air, climate, ag, public health and more -- that make up the climate issue.
He started back in, what, 1972?, when almost no one was listening to the sky-is-falling climate warners and very few could get elected or reelected by concentrating on the biggest "green" issues of that time of clean air and/or water. Ever since then Biden has been one of the most reliable, and eventually important men in congress for "green" organizations.
All liberal Democrats who started in congress in the last decade have a 100% or close to "lifetime" record on climate, as rated by the League of Conservation voters, who keep records on all members of congress since I think 1971. Democrats have become aware and being for climate action is required now. Having a good lifetime record starting decades ago when most voters didn't expect or reward it is a whole different matter.
Btw, the liberal candidates in congress all have 100% annual records now. Biden's congressional record stopped back in 2007, just about the time all our caucus's high scores started accumulating and pulling up lifetime averages; so it misses out on that lift, but it's still good. And, since he's been working on them for decades, what he knows about the many technical issues involved has to outweigh by far what most others do.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,352 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BannonsLiver
(16,162 posts)Who is no longer in the race in part because he couldnt leverage his reputation on this issue into support for his campaign. But hes the big winner in an event he wasnt involved in. Vox can be so silly sometimes.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)I'm sorry that Biden didn't come across better.
Just imagine what it means to have years of familiarity with environmental problems and assets, economics, commodities and resources, industry, influential people and their positions, and state of the laws, in 50 states and other areas? Including Inslee's WA, of course, and other states leading on this.
And just imagine the irony and problem of a climate debate being used to try to take out the person who is now, without Inslee, actually our best climate candidate.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BannonsLiver
(16,162 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)to see why. It's not that Biden is like an imaginary Inslee who'd been serving in the house and senate since 1972 and as committed over that period as he is now.
But I don't see any upper-tier candidates whose actions can compare with Bidens, and I doubt that most would have his record if they were around as long. Biden's record is better than most older Democrats, much more than some. Above all, he's is proven to have had the right attitude about these issues over decades when relatively few were noticing.
Sanders has been around a while, but his record of achievement or even just involvement is as paltry on climate action as on other issues. Sure, he's made statements and taken positions; but he's always been I-Sanders, and that means his contribution has been his routine +1 vote on bills after they were crafted and brought to the floor by Democratic senators, including Biden.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BannonsLiver
(16,162 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)Sanders' verbal air over Biden's substance.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BlueMTexpat
(15,349 posts)longest record. He was in the Senate from January 5, 1973 January 15, 2009. Certainly none of the other candidates can compare with that.
And it is true that he was one of the first to propose legislation, along with Al Gore, Chafee and others.
The Delaware senators first climate change bill, introduced in 1986, died in the Senate. But the following year a version of Bidens legislation survived as an amendment to a State Department funding bill. President Ronald Reagan went on to sign it into law.
The upshot of Bidens Global Climate Protection Act was to call on the president to set up a task force to plan how to mitigate global warming.
Biden spoke about the bill on the Senate floor in January 1987 in terms that seem uncannily familiar to present-day warnings. He discussed, among other ills, the threat to human habitat resulting from melting polar ice caps and rising sea levels.
...
At the same time, its important not to overstate the impact of Bidens bill, said Josh Howe, a professor of history and environmental studies at Reed College.
"It's significant insofar as Biden has been more or less on top of the issue since the mid '80s. But let's not stretch the intent of the bill and suggest that this was a comprehensive plan for reducing emissions or adapting to the consequences of climatic change," he said. "It was a plan to make a plan. Which, of course, neither Reagan nor Bush ultimately did."
...
https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2019/may/08/joe-biden/was-joe-biden-climate-change-pioneer-congress-hist/
Here is Biden's environmental scorecard while he was in the Senate, per the League of Conservation Voters. With a lifetime score of 83%, his grade is about a B-. https://scorecard.lcv.org/moc/joe-biden
Per the same organization, Elizabeth Warren has a lifetime score of 99%. https://scorecard.lcv.org/moc/elizabeth-warren
As does Cory Booker. https://scorecard.lcv.org/moc/cory-anthony-booker
Amy Klobuchar has a lifetime score of 96%. https://scorecard.lcv.org/moc/amy-klobuchar
Kamala Harris, who only assumed office in 2017, has a lifetime score of 100%. https://scorecard.lcv.org/moc/kamala-harris
Bernie Sanders has a lifetime score of 92%. https://scorecard.lcv.org/moc/bernie-sanders
Beto O'Rourke has a lifetime score of 95% based on his record in the House. https://scorecard.lcv.org/moc/beto-orourke
The other candidates don't have Congressional voting records, so far as I know.
Biden may have been an early pioneer, and good for him. But IMO, we can do much better.
Eta the link to the excerpt. Sorry about that!
Another eta to include Tulsi Gabbard's lifetime scorecard in Congress. As she was not among the ten in the climate debate, I hadn't included her before. But even she rates 96%. https://scorecard.lcv.org/moc/tulsi-gabbard
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BlueMTexpat
(15,349 posts)Everyone who has been following the news knows that Inslee is NOT a candidate.
But because so many have adopted and/or adapted his ideas, he is indeed a big winner.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,352 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Baclava
(12,047 posts)CNN wins again
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden