FYI to group members.

[boston bean]

I am committed to keeping this space safe for our members to discuss our issues.

Persons who come here to disrupt and not discuss, or come here to insult, or come here to make like they are victims of evil feminists, just aren't going to be welcome. Or if they are hostile to members outside this group making personal attacks, they will more than likely be not welcome. This is a progressive website, I think this is in line with progressive and liberal values.

Also, feminism is in line with democratic, progressive, liberal values.

[seabeyond]

1. ya know. not everyones mommy. that is what it is feeling like. nt

[boston bean]

3. I really appreciate that seaglass.

There is a difference between feminists disagreeing on certain issues with respect and others using those differences to attack certain feminists on this site.

I welcome your posting to the group any time. I really don't mind differences of opinion. I welcome them.

What I do mind, is posters making personal attacks here int he group and outside on the general DU board. Constant attacks on a "certain brand" of feminism... whatever that means, is not a difference of opinion.. It's an attack on feminism.

[hlthe2b]

4. I echo this sentiment from BostonBean. That said (on the issue of alert stalking)....

It is clear that HOF is being stalked by a few DUers in this regard (just as it seems clear that the Gun Control Reform Activism group is likewise being targeted by its detractors). I am concerned about the ramped up alerting on posts/threads here.. However, in order for us to be able to make a case to admins, I think we need to be able to demonstrate a pattern of thread/post locks and alerts that were absent of any cause or justification.

Our issues are inherently emotion-laden and it is very difficult not to display understandable anger in response to some of the ugly comments and targeted posts found elsewhere on GD. But, I'd like to suggest that we take a pause before hitting the post button and consider if our point can be made sans any language that can be construed by any fair-minded jury member (or admin) as "lock-worthy"...

Maybe also take a look at whether our point is clear or might be misconstrued as saying something we totally had not intended as well, since I increasingly see that occurring--and not simply by those who have a stake in twisting what is said. Please know that I am saying this as much to myself as anyone else, as I know I have a tendency to be misunderstood or to unintentionally antagonize when I post reflexively in response to something that "triggers" and this caused me considerable DU frustration not long ago.

If we do so and a pattern of unsubstantiated alerts continues, we can accumulate the evidence that admins will have to take to heart in determining what action should be taken.

Please take this as no more than my personal suggestion. I do not wish to convey that I have the answers. I would just like to take away some of the "ammunition" being used against us. Know that although I have not addressed the reasons why some may feel cynicism that admins would take action, I do fully understand why many may feel this way. However, in protecting this group, we need to be aware of those who would love nothing more than to seek its disbanding. We can NOT give admins reason to agree.

[seabeyond]

5. why dont you just ask for the moon, from me, lol. i hear ya. will try. though 2 or 3 posts hidden

in this forum was me quoting and showing the site i picked up quote, lol.

[hlthe2b]

8. I know, sea... But I used to add qualifiers adnauseum when I thought someone was

Last edited Mon Apr 8, 2013, 12:39 PM - Edit history (1)

stalking me and intentionally misreading/misconstruing what I said... Even to the point of blocking out the potentially "misconstruable" (is that a word?) material and putting in bold letter that I am quoting from a linked article.

I work in health related fields so the need to be pro-active to the point of ludicrous levels to avoid someone making a "case" over what I did or said is something I deal with daily. It is sad it may be necessary here, but I think it may be.

edited for subject line typo...

[Sheldon Cooper]

6. Your post would make sense if there was any hope that the owners would

actually pay attention to documented stalking. As I see it, they've made it abundantly clear that they don't care. You all can do as you wish, of course, but I think appeals to authority are pointless.

So go ahead, stalker - hit the button. I know you're champing at the bit, so by all means, have at it.

[hlthe2b]

12. Please know I am in no way suggsting self-censor of WHAT we say... merely

taking time to consider HOW we say it.

That said, I fully understand your position.

[boston bean]

9. I hear what you are saying H

but in a safe haven protected group, I don't think it's fair for members to have to tailor their speech surrounding our issues.

If admin is thinking of disbanding HoF because of postings regarding sexism and misogyny, there are more problems than initially thought.

[hlthe2b]

10. I hear you too and don't disagree in general...

But, I don't want us to make the case against us for our detractors. Skinner's ATA response to a poster we had justifiably blocked and that failed to address self-announced intent to hurt us--left me concerned.

I also have seen at least one vocal forum/group host try to use this against us in the F&G Host forum--where it was not met with any defense of us. That suggests to me that some of this crap is "sticking".

[boston bean]

11. that's on Skinner, not us.

[BainsBane]

13. good advice nt

[DURHAM D]

14. I like to Shake It Out !

It's hard to dance with the devil on your back so shake him off.

When I get too frustrated by the attacks I just put this on and get up and dance around the house.

[redqueen]

16. I'm really looking forward to hearing this later...

Thanks!

[seabeyond]

17. and all of the ghouls come out to play.....

tonight i am gonna bury that horse in the ground....

shake it out, shake it out

damned if i do, and damned if i dont


i love that song. i, too, dance thru most of my life. both you and i jump off the couch and do the dance.

thanks. fun

[hlthe2b]

18. I think we might have found the HOF anthem!

Love it!

[BainsBane]

15. When we do achieve that mass of evidence

Last edited Mon Apr 8, 2013, 01:15 PM - Edit history (1)

I think you'd be a great person to bring it to the admins attention.

[hlthe2b]

19. I'm not so sure about that...

I certainly don't feel that I am any more persuasive than any other HOFer and perhaps, less so.

That said, it would be good if documentation of the issue were archived for future reference--knowing that self-deletes or other means of "disappearing" do make it difficult to recall.

[BainsBane]

20. It looks like someone else has decided to go to ATA

see Boston Bean's recent OP.

[boston bean]

22. It's a joke.

[redqueen]

26. An exhaustive list of all the meta/HoF-stalking threads there

would be much, much longer.

And disgusting.

[seabeyond]

28. and that would simply be the OPS. then find individual posts and wow. lol. they really have nothin'

else to discuss, but us.

[redqueen]

29. No, there's always the 'which celebrity would you date' thread.

And stuff like 'which video game character would you date'

[seabeyond]

30. lol. betcha you are wrong and they are talking about us in those posts also. and no,

i am not gonna hunt and link. so do not even ask me to, lol

[BainsBane]

23. that would warrant a good number of

posts in the other group being hidden.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

24. that alerter should go back to his "Who's the hawtest celebrity" discussions.

that alert stinks of hypocrisy.


Forgive me for not coming 'round much.....the feeling of constantly banging my (our) heads against brick walls gets to me.

[ismnotwasm]

31. Lawd

While I Kind of agree with BainB, one thing I've noticed, is outright aggressive posts, or worse passive aggressive posts, or ones stemming from dishonest intent, can be sidetracked a little if you use placating language. They are already angry. They either want an useless argument or an opportunity to attempt to be hurtful.

How do I know? I've experimented a bit here and there. The rules I made up; 1) never outright disagree, use neutral wording. 2) toss in some interest of the poster as a person 3) when finding a point of absolute disagreement, don't engage, continue to look for points that CAN be agreed on. 4) repeat back points for clarification

(parts of this, only with a LOT more sophistication,and Many more actual technique styles is nursing communication skills but in that case-----I'm dealing with very sick, often frightened individuals. These techniques for patients aren't nessisarily placating but part of good communication skills and a crucial part of my job)

So the first question, is Why. Why do I need to use placating techniques on posters to start a conversation, rather than an argument?

We all know the answer to that one. To filter through the tick-like bloat of ignorance and entitlement, to look for teaching or learning moments, to perhaps find a moment of commonality.

The second question is, 'is it worth it?'

Fuck no it's not. Treating discourtesy with courtesy or intellectual dishonesty with honest questioning is like filling the provebial bucket with a hole in it with water. I mind find rare "moments" here are there, but to my certain knowledge it doesn't change a thing. On a board with a different culture perhaps.

This is a discussion board. This is a Feminist group, with a clear statement of purpose. When our individual members are in say, GD, arguing and are met with joyful cruelty having a safe haven is important. The ones I do feel sorry for sometimes are those that wonder in from the greatest page. Unless they're all like 'eek! HoF cooties, I'm outta here' then I have to laugh.

[redqueen]

32. !!!!!!!!

We all know the answer to that one. To filter through the tick-like bloat of ignorance and entitlement, to look for teaching or learning moments, to perhaps find a moment of commonality.

NICE!

The second question is, 'is it worth it?'

Fuck no it's not. Treating discourtesy with courtesy or intellectual dishonesty with honest questioning is like filling the provebial bucket with a hole in it with water. I mind find rare "moments" here are there, but to my certain knowledge it doesn't change a thing. On a board with a different culture perhaps.

[ismnotwasm]

33. Glad you like