Claim: Feminist Catharine MacKinnon said "All sex is rape."

[ismnotwasm]

From snopes.com:

Claim: Feminist Catharine MacKinnon said "All sex is rape."

Status: False.

Origins: Feminist legal theorist and anti-pornography crusader Catharine A. MacKinnon is no stranger to controversy. During her more than twenty-five years in the public eye, she has placed herself at the heart of a number of storms raging through the realm of public opinion. She has asserted that rape laws are written to protect the perpetrators rather than the victims, and that pornography is a violation of civil rights. She is notable for the part she played in bringing about Canada's tougher anti-pornography laws, and in persuading the U.S. Supreme Court to adopt the view that sexual harassment is a form of sex discrimination.

MacKinnon is not universally respected or liked, even within the ranks of feminism. Her outspoken nature and strong opinions have created enemies for her, and she has become a convenient target for anyone looking to run down the movement by caricaturing one of its prominent members as a strident harpy who has loudly asserted as fact any number of fool-headed opinions. It is therefore not surprising that she would be tagged with having made a pronouncement such as "All sex is rape," a statement that calls into question the sanity of the person who utters it even as it alienates most everyone who hears it.

MacKinnon never made the statement which has been attributed to her. (The quote she never gave has been variously rendered as "All sex is rape," "All men are rapists," and "All sex is sexual harassment.&quot Critics of MacKinnon's work argue she implies all men are rapists, but the quote given here was created by MacKinnon's opponents, not MacKinnon herself.

MacKinnon was further tied to the quote she did not utter by a March 1999 article by conservative commentator Cal Thomas in which he incorrectly identified her as the author of Professing Feminism and quoted her as saying: "In a patriarchal society all heterosexual intercourse is rape because women, as a group, are not strong enough to give meaningful consent." Not only is the quote misattributed, but the putative source, Professing Feminism: Cautionary Tales From the Strange World of Women's Studies, is a book criticizing the work of MacKinnon and other feminists, written by Daphne Patai and Noretta Koertge.

http://www.snopes.com/quotes/mackinnon.asp

[niyad]

1. having read mackinnon, I know she never said that. but, the mra's, etc., just MUST have targets

to whom they can point to prove how right they are.

[BainsBane]

2. I know you don't intend this

and I'm not at all suggesting you shouldn't post this, because screw them, but I think your OP title will be the next Straw Woman Weekly, though it may soon become a daily.

[seabeyond]

3. we have been told by men ALL the feminists, long time ago feminists, who we are not allowed to post

they have made it clear. and at a point it became obvious that we were literally throwing women, smart, courageous, hard working, successful women under the bus cause a handful of men would then attack us for it.

a couple months ago i made a decision to say fuck it. who am i to lessen this womans achievement and success because some man told me to. what does that make me.

as you can see, now they scour a page and all comments to stop us putting up articles.

we ignore.

[BainsBane]

4. I'm with you, agree 100%

that's just what came to mind because I've been in that all men are rapists thread. But fuck em. They don't have sense to figure out the actual meaning, it's entirely their problem.

[seabeyond]

5. that is a tough thread of ugly. every poster in there dissing me today, was dissing me yesterday.

and they will diss me tomorrow. they will not stop. they may not do it honestly.

if i speak out, i will be dissed.

but then, so will every other woman that speaks out against the male space being created on du.

every. single. woman. that speaks out against a hostile environment will be dissed.

and it will be allowed.

and it will be the same people.

[BainsBane]

8. You are a marvel, Sea

I'm so glad you have a supportive family. I get a lot of shit around here, but it pales in comparison to what they hurl at you.

[Squinch]

27. I had a thought that I would put

the worst offenders on ignore so that DU wouldn't suck for me.

But you are right. That's not the answer.

Not saying I am taking them all off ignore, because some are just too infantile and uninteresting in their trollery to waste the brain space on, but I'm not going through with my plan to ignore all the anti-feminists.

Thanks once again.

[redqueen]

9. Yep. I remember hearing the anti-feminist spiel about MacKinnon, repeatedly...

then I come to learn that it was she who spearheaded the movement to make sexual harassment in the workplace illegal. She still speaks out against porn and prostitution. No wonder so many men hate her, and spread lies about her, and demonize her.

Why, though, I wonder, did no other feminists speak up and defend her? Maybe they have on the past and o missed it. The moment I found out her real accomplishments, though... It was an epiphany. Suddenly it became very clear why she was a target.

[seabeyond]

10. i read up on her, learned ALL she did/does. i listen to her speak, she was awesome. i felt the fool

that is when it really hit me that i dared to throw her under the bus because yes.... she spoke out against porn. that is all it takes for her to become the horrible, rad fem. so damn many of those horribly militant rad fems all over the place, lol.

agreed.

that was a huge lesson for me, that day. i started a op on her. it hit me hard.

[BainsBane]

13. we have a recent reminder of how many resent anti-discriminatory

workplaces, thanks to Adria Richards. I hope Richards has a great lawyer. I'd really like to see her win a case.

[seabeyond]

14. yes. you did really well addressing that in the gd froum. was it you

that pointed out we are all over defending one women being threatened by one man, yet we ignore and dismiss one woman being threatened by many men.

that struck me

but yes, i like how you address eeoc also.

[BainsBane]

15. No, I don't believe that was me

but I continually point about the contradiction between concerns over death threats against Amina but not Richards. I also point out how men are eager to condemn sexism abroad where it has no impact on their own lives but ignore it at home. They even argue we aren't subject to "real sexism," as though rape, murder, and battery means less when an American commits it as opposed to a foreign Muslim.
I'm really sick of hearing how "Islam" is the enemy. Imagine all those Muslim women fighting against themselves and their own religion? The enemy is sexism, violence against women and misogyny in all of its manifestations.

[redqueen]

16. "The enemy is sexism, violence against women and misogyny in all of its manifestations."

Yes, and the attempt to point the finger at religion, or at men in far away countries, while minimizing, ignoring, or worse, even flat out denying the reality of misogyny here, smacks of American exceptionalism.

[BainsBane]

18. and imperialism

[ismnotwasm]

6. You mean take the title and then lie about the content?

Jesus.

[BainsBane]

7. of course

Just like the other thread.

[ismnotwasm]

11. I just posted Dworkin.

I might have to have a steady Dworkin diet for a while.

[BainsBane]

12. LOL

Their favorite bete noire.

[Helen Reddy]

19. A gift for you me lady.

Enjoy!


http://radfem.org/dworkin/

[ismnotwasm]

21. Sweet!

Last edited Thu Apr 4, 2013, 05:10 PM - Edit history (1)

I didn't know abut his one, thank you!!


Edit I just got the chance to really look it over, oh my god, this so great. I feel like a kid in a candy store

[Flying Squirrel]

17. I like facts. n/t

[DURHAM D]

20. LOL Cal Thomas has a group of devotees on DU.

Who knew...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cal_Thomas

He is so creepy.

[redqueen]

24. Wow, they've been quoting this asshole from an interview in fucking Playboy?

[DURHAM D]

25. Cal was so insane that Fox had to dump him

but leave it to the KnowItAll DU Men's Brigade to carry his water.

[redqueen]

29. I have to wonder the same thing that I do about republicans...

of course I'm assuming they were fed this info second hand, and trusted the source... Do they ever get tired of being lied to?

[redqueen]

22. She also said this.

“Women are socially disadvantaged in controlling sexual access to their bodies through socialization to customs that define a woman's body as for sexual use by men. Sexual access is regularly forced or pressured or routinized beyond denial.”

- Reflections on Sex Equality under Law (1991) Yale Law Journal Vol.100 No. 5

[ismnotwasm]

23. And that is exactly the type of truth

That is considered 'controversial'. To me it's clear as crystal.

[redqueen]

28. Yeah, it's only controversial because these issues are rarely examined or discussed.

It's like heart disease in women. How many decades of practicing medicine went by before any scientists noticed something was missing?

[Deep13]

26. Usually an off the wall quote from someone is false...

...or out of context. Unless it's a Republican politician in the past 10 years.