i have got to be the all time champ on being called out with fabricated faux outrage.

[seabeyond]

there is a pattern. thinking and discussing the effectiveness/method of femen. and then listening to women who are knowledgeable and actually know what they are talking about with the african women protest, comparing it to effectiveness of femen, i have been thinking about our roles on the board.

hof outraged about men opening doors. no, it was a definition of benevolent sexism.
hof attacks fellow feminist. no, it was challenging method and effectiveness. it was calling out anti feminist/hof men on du using it as a weapon against women.
hof is all the time accusing men "all men are potential rapists". no, again, it is men continually saying this is what women say, and we have to explain to them again, so they can pretend they do not get it.

but the worst. the very worst. what disgusts me to my very core, at the lack of integrity, is a small group of men trying to promote that hof CHEERS, do you hear this women, fuckin CHEERS starving our baby boys.

now. just think. think what this says. i have two boys. i have nephews i have raised, and nephews i love as they grew. i love babies, period. and really? really? we are going to have another fabricated faux outrage accusing women in hof of CHEERING starving baby boys.

a particular poster goes into our links. not interested in the actual articles we post. not into the discussion. but i guess his time is well spent reading every fuckin comment on a blog or article. linking to every name on a page and reading bio and checking history to see if he can discredit a member of HOF with false accusations.

in some thread, amongst tons of comment, there was a comment about starving baby boys. that is all i know. that is all i hear. and that we women fuckin CHEER starvin baby boys.

but.... that all being said, what i have watched time and time again, when this fabricated faux outrage explodes, i have to step away. not a single thing i say will matter. just step away. go at it hoss.

like a pack of hyenas, tear away. and as the dust settle, and people that do not participate looks around at the shredded meat (ok, now i am just having fun writing), disembowelment all around, and start picking at the remains to get a clue what in the world has happened, starts putting it all together. until they come to, wait....

what did she say that was so out of line.

didnt all you men, who do not give a shit about feminism, who are cheering the boobs and do not know the issue, who are putting up thread after thread to merely attack hof, do exactly what she said you were doing.

i ask you

and when accused of raising a stink about holding the door open. wasnt it the men, who were merely attacking hof the ones that made the stink about the doors, while it was only a definition about benevolent sexism.

and when you accused hof of going around accusing all men of being potential rapist, wasnt it really you men merely making that accusation toward hof.

and when stating that any woman would cheer starving baby boys, isnt that the bottom. havent we all reached the very bottom.

*an aside. some have to repress. i do not. ever. it is much better, healthier to say it out loud, and let it go with the wind*

[Helen Reddy]

1. Think mebbe

some folks enjoy PRETENDING to be pissed about the SUPPOSED outrage.

The wheels on the bus go 'round and 'round.

Keep pushing seabeyond! You may not be the voice for ALL women on DU, but I ga-rawn-tee you, you speak for MANY.

[seabeyond]

2. you know... i know that many many women speak up. i am not ego driven, for sure.

but, something about the way i put shit out there really makes me dragged to that ole cross so often, lol. my mama told me, if i find myself consistently in a place, i might ought to look at me instead of EVERYONE else.



this is a joke people. do not go off thinking i am some christ like figure.....

any other clarifications needed.

[Helen Reddy]

3. Hah!

Nuance is lost on many. Being too literal can bum ones ride needlessly.

[BainsBane]

7. I was told how "the company I keep"

tells them what they need to know about me. I guess that means you and other women here in HOF. Evidently, according to one poster, I'm supposed to get on the same page on every single issue because it's not like we are actual individuals with our own minds.

It's amazing how often I get asked to explain or defend something you say, as though we are the same person. So I guess I'm on the cross with you Sea.

[MadrasT]

9. Get with the program, BainsBane

We are all misandrist transphobic male-baby-starvers with one hive mind.



(Never mind that I don't believe anyone here is actually misandrist, transphobic, or advocating starving male babies...)

[redqueen]

10. You left off prude and sex-negative...

[BainsBane]

15. Oh yes

"Puritan" (he historical inaccuracy of that is a pet peeve)--the fundamental accusation is that the collective HOF doesn't like sex and is ashamed of the female body.

[Helen Reddy]

12. Indeed +1

Being focused on pushing forward pro female agenda(s) is scary to many. Being FOR something does not mean you are AGAINST something else.

Didn't we hear something similar to the lead up of the invasion of Iraq?

"You are either with us or against us" Really?

[BainsBane]

14. It's the Vulcan mind meld

As I pointed out at the time.

[whathehell]

13. Just curious, BainsBane..

Who told you that?...Not one of the Admins, I hope.

Send me a pm, if you would, if you'd rather not go public.

[redqueen]

4. Yep. Shameless, disgusting dishonesty, and it really IS 'cheered' by the...

Yeah, I won't say it.

Because unlike attacks on HoF and the members here, any unflattering characterizations I use will be alerted by those obsessed with scouring this group and it would far more likely be hidden.

[DURHAM D]

5. The posters on DU who stalk and attack you are

working from the right wing playbook. They laugh behind their computer screens as they work to create separation among the women and the women from the men. They feel they have a "job" to do.

The interesting part is that so few good people call them out on their tactics/agenda. But this all starts at the top of DU as the owners don't recognize sexism and misogyny when it hits them in the face so I think good liberals, progressives and regular Democrats simply realize this place is toxic for women.

Another thing about your fan club is that I assume it is likely their only sexual or emotional outlet so I actually feel a bit sorry for them. You probably can not even imagine a life based on hate or shame.

So just keep living your full real life. You are the winner.

[Helen Reddy]

6. Two Snaps! n/t

[ismnotwasm]

17. Oh Damn

Now THAT is a very interesting, (disgusting to think about) but interesting and perceptive take on the whole mess.

[seabeyond]

35. i think this was the most surprising to me.

The interesting part is that so few good people call them out on their tactics/agenda. But this all starts at the top of DU as the owners don't recognize sexism and misogyny when it hits them in the face so I think good liberals, progressives and regular Democrats simply realize this place is toxic for women.

and i do feel bad for du. hopefully what i am seeing is that normal is out there, they simply have learned to not participate or even enter these threads. so what we see in the threads is not an example of du.

i appreciate your post.

[JI7]

59. this is what i feel when i see many of their posts, maybe i should feel sorry for them instead

"Another thing about your fan club is that I assume it is likely their only sexual or emotional outlet so I actually feel a bit sorry for them. You probably can not even imagine a life based on hate or shame."

these people seriously remind me of the gun nuts .

[Z_I_Peevey]

8. Badge of Honor

Truly it is.

[seabeyond]

36. thank you, peevey. nt

[Arcanetrance]

11. It's because you're doing something right forcing people to see the truth of the world they live in.

That act makes people uncomfortable so they attack like animals in a corner. But in the end they can't deny what you say.

[seabeyond]

37. i am finding it interesting

now i have shifted my view a tad since last night. and now i am looking at really, all those so fuckin outraged. i have made so many posts. really, find the outrageous we speak of.

for the most part, i am really a balanced, moderate thinker.

so, now, i am looking at this a bit differently.

thanks

i have been enjoying your post.

[Arcanetrance]

45. I really don't get the guys who are attempting to paint you as an anti male nazi

Personally I've found your posts to be just as supportive to men and women. So the only thing I can think of its the fact that you call out those who just go well I'm a liberal guy therefore it's impossible to be sexist meanwhile they sit there and spew crap.

[seabeyond]

46. yes. i think you are right on, of course, but yes.

i tell my boys what is said and they are flabbergasted. i am very fair and balanced talking gender issues. one of our favorite social discussions cause it effects us everywhere.

another thanks.

[BainsBane]

16. I missed the baby starving bit

as much as the sewage I witness I never seem to catch it all. I'll count myself lucky on that one.

[MadrasT]

18. It has just occurred to me...

You know the Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon game? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_Degrees_of_Kevin_Bacon

Their games reminds me of that game.

It's like a big game for them to find paths of connections to get from "HoF member" to "radfem transphobe" or "insane child abuser". (Perhaps because those right there would be actual bannable offenses, as opposed to just being uppity women that say shit that annoys them?)

Meta may be resting in peace, but the witch hunts carry on.

[seabeyond]

38. yesterday i heard soemone going after a poster that made and OP. she is a hoffer...

well, she is not.

but, that did not matter cause she was " or at least sympathetic to its philosophy. "

she was a woman. addressing an issue about women. that makes her " or at least sympathetic to its philosophy. " ergo, one of us.

and there you go.

[Aerows]

19. I got called out like I'd started a war with this post

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2609118

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2609148

It seems like stirring up shit any time a woman posts something. I don't, and will not give an inch. I detest religion, particularly the religion I see in my area that fosters the opinion that only pious women are lesser than men.

I got baited, I believe, in that exchange, but I didn't take the bait.

My reply:

""woman should not cut her hair", "nor adornment", "dress modestly" " and be submissive to men bullshit that disgusts me thoroughly. They don't get to wave the Bible around when there are men present, either, because they are taught to be completely submissive to men, but that doesn't stop them from trying to pound it into each other in an attempt to be the "purity squadron leader".

And by the way - I'm a woman, and that bullshit is offensive to me. Don't try to take it as criticism that they aren't "sexy" - it's criticism that they are so rooted in Biblical teachings that force them to be less than their men that makes me ill. And there isn't a damn thing wrong with being sexy, either.'

[BainsBane]

20. I think that poster was trying to understand your view

and ended up agreeing with you that the religious restrictions are wrong. That's how I read it anyway.

[Aerows]

21. I think so, too

it's just interesting how there are so many knee-jerk reactions lately.

[BainsBane]

22. for sure

I'm guilty of it myself.

[CrispyQ]

23. So we're eating male babies now, huh?

Glad I missed it.

I don't understand why one of their first assumptions is that we hate men. Many of us are happily married to men! We have healthy relationships with those men. Some of us even have sex with those men. Good sex! From reading your posts, Sea, I'm sorry to tell you, you are one of those types of feminists. You have men close in your life, you love & care deeply for them, & you make them aware of what life is like for the other half of humanity. Oh my, you male hating feminist.

For all the shit you take, there is someone out there who is re-thinking their world view because of your outspokenness.

Like ZIP said above, badge of honor. Wear it with pride.

[ismnotwasm]

28. GREAT sex

Which I can't even begin to imagine happening with obsessed anti-feminist thread stalker.


Ugh, I shouldn't think about stuff like that when I'm eating dinner.

[seabeyond]

39. i love your posts. they are always a pleasure to read. nt

[JI7]

24. some people seriously need to get over themselves

i see some of them posting in threads by people who haven't posted here or in other threads on these issues start complaining about HOF . it has nothing to do with the OP either but twist whatever they can to make themselves out to be victims.

i admit i have not read many of these threads which started some months ago and i just discovered meta just before it was done away with. so i wasn't sure what was going on in some of the threads at first.

but i saw there was a pattern of personal attacks, and complaints about tone, no discussion of the actual issue .

a lot of it reminds me of what the republicans do. critiize war and you are attacking the troops. say happy holidays instead of merry christmas and it's an attack on christians .

but i do notice it tends to be the same few ones over and over again.

[seabeyond]

40. thanks.

i have been enjoying you perspective. as i said to a poster above. waht i am finding more fun, is thru behavior, people that never took note are paying attention now. so i am getting more feedback and perspective. seems to be becoming a ... win, lol. i love listening to others way of seeing... issues. not name calling.

but, you are right. i think often how so much of this is repug style debate.

also, the realization that this behavior is becoming a norm to create male space and get women to submit or go away.

[Luminous Animal]

25. Hugs for you, sea. You definitely handle it all with grace.

[seabeyond]

41. you are nice. thank you. i have really appreciated and love your posts

in the african women protest thread. i loved reading about that stuff. i really appreciate that info. and your posts in other areas. but, i want to protest with those women.

i finally responded on one of the threads, when a poster that has never stood up yet against sexism/misogyny made a comment about the femen woman only allowed burkahs in that country, "that would the the women that wear bikinis and go topless at their beaches'

she asked, why do you have a problem with the naked body.

really?

do you still beat your husband?

it is not such a tough concept.

[curlyred]

26. I love all you guys

For being so articulate. For saying what I should say. For calling people here out on their shit and not backing down.

Thank you all.

[seabeyond]

42. and

it is posters like you that i really really REALLY appreciate, when you do speak out and the power of it, for me.

thank you.

you are the reason so many of us continue. because there are people that for whatever reason do not speak out, but want a space on the net, to be, that is not hostile to women.

[Tien1985]

27. I saw the

"all men are rapists" outrage thread this morning and was sharply reminded of why there will not be a star next to my name anytime soon.

I haven't read the starving baby boys thread and I don't think I could without getting needlessly angry.

Blech.

[MadrasT]

29. And they just *unlocked* that shit.

Can you believe it?

Yeah, star renewal is so not in my future.

[seabeyond]

43. i think that was it for me, also, yesterday morning.

hence starting the OP. actually, between that and seeing three too many men saying women from this forum cheer starving baby boys.

[Whisp]

49. That tells us a lot, that does.

Look for more in the future of that sort now that a precedent has been set.

what bullshit.

Anyway, starless is nice. Makes you feel lighter and less obligated to put up with the nonsense.

[Flying Squirrel]

30. meh

Sounds like someone with wayyyyyy too much time on his hands... see now this is what happens when unemployment gets too high (or parents let their kids stay up all night on the internets.)

[BainsBane]

31. . . .

[seabeyond]

44. ha ha.

i guess there could be that, also.

[UnrepentantLiberal]

32. This didn't help.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022154026#post5

[redqueen]

33. Many men in that thread did their best to help educate the few who work so hard at being offended

by any feminist statements which they can twist to make it all about them.

I am forever grateful that not all men are so myopic.

[seabeyond]

34. didnt hurt either. about neutral. and UL, i do not like pretending, it is a form of dishonesty, so

lets not.

nothing really fuckin matters one way or another. honesty and a real beef about any issue is not going to be had, cause it is not their. this is petty, childish, playground bullying cause you and others has a real issue with women speaking out about things you do not want them to speak out about. then you punish. you are one that often knee jerk react to punishing women for speaking out against YOUR will.

so, how about if i disagree with you that that is a silly post to bring into this Op like it means shit.

you guys do not even have anything. hence the reason you so often have to make shit up.

[KitSileya]

47. And your very own stalker too....

Who cannot fathom that if women are held back by the fear of rape, which is rape culture, men benefit by it, even those who do not rape. Unfortunately, it is a part in a bigger trend where people cannot see that if their parents, grandparents and earlier generations weren't discriminated against, they have inherited some of the benefit that not-discrimination accrued to them (white privilege.) When it as immediate as male privilege -as in, it benefits them directly - they refuse to see it. They truly believe they pulled themselves up by their own bootstraps. And anyone pointing out how much worse off their class would be if they didn't belong to the white class, or male class of people, is worthy of attacking all day long, in every thread, loudly, and with much derailing of discussion.

Kudos for keeping up the good work, seabeyond.

[seabeyond]

48. "pulled themselves up by their own bootstraps" decades ago my father in law used that term. a man

who LUCKED into millions.

one of my first battles with in laws.

another very good post. talking the issue not the person. thank you.

[ismnotwasm]

50. And we were just informed that we don't discuss history here.

Good gravy Marie: lets see, a cursory look reveals any number of threads about history, as well as how history effects current events.


Po' boo, ANOTHER ouchie. Of course none so blind and all that.

[seabeyond]

51. those ouchies are piling up. lol. nt

[MadrasT]

52. Didn't see it this time around, but that one always cracks me up.

Mostly because it is so easily demonstrated to be a complete horse shit assertion, by just clicking, oh heck, here and taking a peek around.

Then there are those who whine that we don't post enough about current issues. (Hello??????????? HISTORY of Feminism?)

Then there are those who just whine for the sake of whining and add... "and OMFG HoF!!!!" for good measure.

Sheeeeeit, we could post BBQ sauce recipes and people would complain about that.

[ismnotwasm]

53. And how to greet your man

Excerpt from Home Economics textbook used in Ontario schools during the
1950's.

. Get your work done. Plan your tasks with an eye on the clock.
Finish or interrupt them an hour before your husband is expected
home. Your anguished cry, "Are you home already?" is not
exactly a warm welcome.

. Have dinner ready. Plan ahead, even the night before to have
a delicious meal on time. This is a way of letting him know
that you have been thinking of him and are concerned for his
needs. Most men are hungry when they come home and the
prospects of a good meal are part of the warm welcome needed.

. Prepare yourself. Take 15 minutes to rest so that you will be
refreshed when he arrives. Touch up your make-up, put a
ribbon in your hair and be fresh looking. He has just been
with a lot of work weary people. Be a little gay and a
little more interesting. His boring day may need a lift.

. Clear away the children. Make one last trip through the
main part of the house just before your husband arrives.
Then run a dust cloth over the tables. Your husband will
feel he has reached a haven of rest and order and it will
give you a lift, too.

. Prepare the children. Take just a few minutes to wash the
children's hands and faces (if they are small), comb their
hair and, if necessary, change their clothes. They are
little treasures and he would like to see them playing the
part.

. Minimize all noise. At the time of his arrival, eliminate
noise of washer, dryer, dishwasher, vacuum. Try to
encourage the children to be quiet.

. Be happy to see him. Greet him with a warm smile and act
glad to see him.

. Some don'ts. Don't greet him with a problem or complaint.
Don't complain if he's late for dinner. Count this
minor compared with what he might have gone through during
the day.

. Make him comfortable. Have him lean back into a comfortable
chair or suggest he lie down in the bedroom. Have a cool or
warm drink ready for him. Arrange his pillows and offer to
massage his neck and shoulders and take off his shoes.
Speak in a soft, soothing, pleasant voice. Allow him to
relax - to unwind.

. Listen to him. You may have a dozen things to tell him, but
the moment of his arrival is not the time. Let him talk first.

. Make everything his. Never complain if he does not take you
out to dinner or other places of entertainment. Instead try
to understand his world of strain and pressure, his need to
be home and relax.

. The goal. Try to make your home a place of peace and order
where your husband can renew himself in body and spirit.

http://www.netjeff.com/humor/item.cgi?file=RulesForWives1950s

[redqueen]

54. LOL... right. 'You and the kids are things for his pleasure, behave accordingly.'

Yeah, how about fuck off.



And hallefuckinglujah for no fault divorce!

[Aerows]

60. Where's the chapter on

"Beat the maid if she shows too much interest in disobeying your commands. She can service your husband, but she needs to be under your thumb."

[Texasgal]

56. UGH. Puleeze.

There is nothing but historic threads in here! Jeez o' Peat!

[BainsBane]

58. Why are they so interested in a group they despise?

Wouldn't the rational thing be to spend their time on something else?

[Texasgal]

55. More sheer stupidity

coming from the outrage Man "clan".

Like I said last week, the absolute breakdown of the opening of doors threads has made me wonder where the intelligence is and if people even READ anymore. UGH.

I'm sorry Sea. I think you are the best! You are honest, sweet and informed. If people cannot handle that it's their loss!

[bench scientist]

57. thanks as alway sea for your voice

and the brains that accompany your voice.
peace,

bench

[Aerows]

61. It was disgraceful

and there are many who stood up and said so.

[seabeyond]

62. ya. i love hearing a womans voice.... nt

[Aerows]

63. All you have to do

is look in ATA and see what we had to say, cher You are a strong voice, and you are a wonderful member.

[seabeyond]

64. yes.

i do liek hearing the women in ata. i even feel a bit sorry... well, what ever. who knows what will grow and develop.

have i told you. i fell in love with a totally imappropriate man who was not my hubby one early morning. when i had drivin to louisanna for a pick up of niece. and this man yells out... something something... cher. lol. i totally fell in love with that man and it was years ago.

i am so fuckin' easy.

[Aerows]

65. LOL

I'm awfully difficult, but that is merely a polite endearment among friends. Didn't mean anything by it, it slips out on occasion.

[seabeyond]

66. got me hot. nt

[Aerows]

67. Oh, I'm sure it did

The weather is quite humid and steamy down here

Don't get inappropriate. .

[seabeyond]

68. nevah... nt

[seabeyond]

69. snort. prude here. dontcha know. get with the program. nt