North Carolina May Declare Official State Religion Under New Bill * * UPDATED * *

[Tx4obama]

Last edited Thu Apr 4, 2013, 10:03 PM - Edit history (2)

North Carolina May Declare Official State Religion Under New Bill

Republican North Carolina state legislators have proposed allowing an official state religion in a measure that would declare the state exempt from the Constitution and court rulings.

The bill, filed Monday by two GOP lawmakers from Rowan County and backed by nine other Republicans, says each state "is sovereign" and courts cannot block a state "from making laws respecting an establishment of religion." The legislation was filed in response to a lawsuit to stop county commissioners in Rowan County from opening meetings with a Christian prayer, wral.com reported.

The religion bill comes as some Republican-led states seek to separate themselves from the federal government, primarily on the issues of guns and Obamacare. This includes a proposal in Mississippi to establish a state board with the power to nullify federal laws.

-snip-

The bill says the First Amendment only applies to the federal government and does not stop state governments, local governments and school districts from adopting measures that defy the Constitution. The legislation also says that the Tenth Amendment, which says powers not reserved for the federal government belong to the states, prohibits court rulings that would seek to apply the First Amendment to state and local officials.

-snip-

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/03/north-carolina-religion-bill_n_3003401.html

OMG!

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UPDATE UPDATE UPDATE

Proposal to allow official North Carolina state religion dead in legislature

RALEIGH, N.C. -- North Carolina House Speaker Thom Tillis' office said Thursday that a resolution asserting North Carolina has the power to set an official state religion is dead, and won't go any further.

The resolution, filed by two Republicans from Rowan County, declared "each state is sovereign and may independently determine how the state may make laws respecting an establishment of religion" - thereby claiming the federal government and courts have no authority to decide what is constitutional.

The bill's primary sponsors were Reps. Harry Warren and Carl Ford, a tea party member. Eleven other legislators signed the resolution. Legislators introduce hundreds or even thousands of resolutions every year, honoring constituents or declaring their stances on issues, but they carry little legal weight.
Related Content

Warren said in a statement that the bill was only intended to allow Rowan County officials to open their meetings with prayer, not to establish a state religion.

-snip-

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=news/politics&id=9052972

[Kennah]

1. If they pass the bill into law, this will be their 2nd. Asshattery will remain their 1st religion.

[jberryhill]

3. And they are pretty devout followers of it

[MinneapolisMatt]

2. K&R

[longship]

4. The GOP is fucking nuts!

Of course, NC, being part of Dixie, wants to repeal the Civil War. The 14th Amendment kind of nullified the argument in this bill. Of course, that and the 13th amendment are not applicable in Dixie, according to today's GOP. They have forgotten that Dixie lost that war. Just like they have forgotten much of a lot of US history.

These people make me want to throw up.

[Mnemosyne]

5. Oh for crying out loud. Really NC, really?! nt

[LiberalFighter]

6. Someone needs to ask them why it is necessary for states to ratify amendments

If they don't apply to them?

[defacto7]

7. Let me guess.....

Taoism?

[defacto7]

8. Following this "logic"

Then maybe counties in these states can nullify state laws! Then cities can nullify county, state and federal law! Then the PTA and nullify city, county, state and federal law! Then maybe someone can nullify PTA, city, county, state and federal law in their bathroom.

[freshwest]

9. Everyman for himself, armed to the teeth!

With freedom and liberty for all...

Well, not quite all the people there...

The regular exclusions will apply.

[bluemarkers]

35. the state legislature is trying to cut cities off at the knees

They are proposing to take away decades old revenue streams - like water departments - and privatize them.... (shocking)

they even want to take away cities/towns ability to plan/regulate appearance of new development

It's awful

My husband and I are natives and we've never considered moving... but it's on the table (new job possibility) Would have never ever considered it before.

[mwooldri]

56. Privatization of water, eh? Ask the Brits how it is working out for them.

Typical water bill for a normal household in London is about $700m + a year. It *could* be less if you're on a meter, more likely the case if you live as a small family unit in an apartment... likely more if you live in regular house (townhouse, duplex, single family)... but that's an aside and yes since the whole NC government has gone from Dem majority to Repub majority in 4 years there has been a number of changes that I don't like. The Repubs getting their fingers into Guilford County districting matters, now ensuring a Repub majority at the county level due to NC meddling.

I suppose the cities can welcome some of the NC legislation and tweak it so it fits the rules. Also in upcoming elections certain ballot initiatives could be put in place - so if the NC legislature goes against the wishes of the people (rather than that of the city government). Like Asheville should be putting an amendment in place that states water services in the City of Asheville be provided by a local or state agency on a not-for-profit basis. Charlotte should move the airport into a separete organization that Charlotte and other nearby cities have a stake in... but since Charlotte would be the biggest member on this new "airport authority" it wouldn't really matter too much what the other cities thought.

Just gonna have to figure out the new "laws" and see what laws contravene the new ones.

[ZombieHorde]

51. I was going to guess Druid, in opposition to Saint Patrick's Day. nt

[jmowreader]

10. But the SECOND!!! Amendment applies to North Carolina!

For fuck's sake, people...Article VI, Clause 2 of the United States Constitution:

This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.

[bornskeptic]

15. From Article I of the North Carolina State Constitution

Sec. 5. Allegiance to the United States.

Every citizen of this State owes paramount allegiance to the Constitution and government of the United States, and no law or ordinance of the State in contravention or subversion thereof can have any binding force.

[jmowreader]

17. What might work to end this...

Offer to give NC its sovereignty but all federal funding will end and the state will pay to remove all federal installations. Because we all know Fort Bragg, Camp Lejeune and Seymour Johnson Air Force Base have no effect on the state economy.

[Cha]

11. I feel for all the sane people in North Carolina..

there are Plenty of them.

[NorthCarolina]

21. Yes, but

gerrymandering in the state has us hogtied.

[BrotherIvan]

12. Why do they hate America?

[davidpdx]

19. Good question

Please call them up and ask. I am interested in their reply.

Welcome to DU

[Voice for Peace]

27. it's a question of Version-of-God vs America.. Version-of-God must come first

and even if people disagree with what Version-of-God
wants from them, they're fearful to end up in Hell,
so that's that.

My theory about why religion is taking over politics:

You can't cheat and deceive, and be at peace with
your own conscience.

So many politicians are anxious, all the time, at a
subterranean level -- because they are ignoring their
own innate conscience, dealing in cheat and deceit,
egomania.

Conscience is built-in for the purpose of guidance in
retaining one's humanity. If a person ignores it
for long enough, there is deep distress at a primal
level.

The only relief for this horror? a belief system in
a Version-of-God Who forgives them everything,
even if they keep right on doing it, and Who agrees
with their politics. (It's a Him, naturally.)

These beliefs are so foreign to the human heart
and conscience, that such people need to keep
ramming it into their own brains, to make it
stick. Like trying to jam a door shut so the
sun can't get in.

[BrotherIvan]

40. That's very interesting

I assumed that people who run for office, apart from a healthy dose of narcissism, are basically conscience-free. There has been a shift, from people who became involved in government because of a sense of civic duty to a path to riches and power so it's attracting a lot more sociopaths. People like Paul Ryan would have been the same kind of shark you see in corporations--climbing the ladder as fast as possible and getting as many people fired as needed to clear the way. Since Reagan we have praised wealth above all things, so that is the only measure of success.

I also think it has a lot to do with the failure of education. Religion has become so powerful because it turned intellectualism into a dirty word. It took a while, but it worked. Why be smart when you can be rich? So now people are so undereducated, they will believe anything these false prophets and fox news/limbaugh shovel at them. It's like shooting fish in a barrel for these psychopathic politicians and Rove et al. They must get a real chuckle out of how stupid their supporters are.

Bad economic times have also led us to the Roman bread and circuses. Film should be our greatest modern art form as it can incorporate all the arts and technology. Instead it has devolved into a profit-driven nightmare we brush off as "entertainment": war porn with teenage boy level of intelligence, extreme contests and reality tv. A community's values and life lessons used to be communicated through their stories and art. Contact with art and literature has a humanizing effect. The health of society is reflected in its art and ours is pretty bad.

All this leads to some twisted form of worship, where Jesus has become the deity of guns, homophobia and misogyny. It's bizarro world to say the least.

[Voice for Peace]

45. Bizarro world, truly.

Thanks for your thoughtful post.

I think you're correct there are many ready-made
sociopaths entering or in politics. But for those
who start out with at least some conscience,
the choices they start making, as power becomes
more and more satisfying to them, weakens their
connection to conscience. This heightens their
susceptibility to religion and cult-think.

If your conscience says 'do the right thing'
and you do the wrong thing anyway, it's a bit
uncomfortable. The next time, it's easier. Pretty
soon you're telling your conscience to shut the
fuck up and ignoring it altogether. This is the
seed of sociopathy (my opinion).

Conscience is a beautiful thing and I'm sure one
day there will be found a physiological basis and
site in the brain or something along those lines.
Some physiological proof that it's an evolved
feature of the human machine.

There will be some branches of the species in
which the conscience 'organ' will have devolved
into a tiny little purposeless clump of inactive
cells -- but there will still be a trace that it once
existed as a purposeful thing; and that this creature
without a developed conscience had apparently
branched off from the actual human race. I expect
the Cheney line, among others, has done this.

[Voice for Peace]

48. I just had another thought, which I believe may be accurate

that a sociopath has no need of religion,
no use for it, except as an outward show
for manipulative purposes. Sociopaths
don't feel fear, or much of it.

But most of the little politicians are not sociopaths.
They follow religion, instead of thinking for themselves,
only because they are scared. They're full of fear
and become vulnerable to brainwash which makes
them even more afraid. Afraid to displease Version-of-God.

They're scared because they make choices and their
conscience makes them uneasy.

[BrotherIvan]

58. What you're saying also has seeds in predetestination

I think you are correct that conscience is like a muscle, if you refuse to listen to it, or find ways to shout out its messages, it gets weaker. Your posts brought about a great discussion this morning with my partner about does everyone have a conscience? It really made me think quite a lot and I appreciate it.

The other thing I see is the twisting of the religious into a kind of Santa Claus ATM in order to justify greed and corruption. It is so far away from the origins of Christianity as to be shocking. Strange times indeed.

[Voice for Peace]

59. predetestination.. is that hating someone before you arrive at their house?

[unc70]

64. Calvinism is the main force behind religious intolerance, greed, hate, ... in the US

Last edited Fri Apr 5, 2013, 10:42 AM - Edit history (1)

The mythic symbols of religious freedom in the story of the founding of the United States, the Pilgrims and the Puritans, were the most intolerant, fanatical, racist, and hate filled religious groups to come to the colonies. The Roman Church had started it by dragging in all the Old Testament hate and punishment to use religion to help control the Roman Empire. (Hard to justify war, suffering, exploitation of others using just the teaching of Jesus -- all that peace and love and understanding.)

John Calvin was a religious despot of the worst kind, burning those with opposing views on a fire fueled by the books they had written. If you are certain you are God's select, you are unlikely to care what happens to those God scorned.

NC was mostly settled by groups that evolved towards free will and not predestination which dominated New England. Moravians, Quakers, Wesleyan Methodists, Deists/Universalists, Disciples, AntiBaptists/Mennonites, early Baptists,...Mostly opposed to slavery, free will, tolerant. By about 1830 this was changing as the Calvinist North became the de facto National religious identity.

Two of the founding "Methodist" at Oxford came to quite different positions. John Wesley the founder of what is now the United Methodist Church and various related churches in the Wesleyan tradition, was strong a proponent of free will and strongly opposed to slavery. George Whitfield was a Calvinist within the Church of England, believed in predestination and was pro-slavery. Whitfield was the most famous of the preachers during the Great Awakening, particularly in the northeast where his Calvinist pro-slavery message was well received by New England Calvinist whose largest industry at that time was the slave trade. Whitfield later moved to Georgia and was a major force in getting slavery made legal in that colony.

[BrotherIvan]

70. Thank you!

That was so interesting. I am always amazed at the depth of knowledge people have to share.

Is that why there are so many Calvinistic similarities to modern-day evangelicals? I know the generic modern term "Christian" is a mish-mash of everything. But there are so many strange elements, such as the born again idea, the radical hate and forceful exclusion of non-members, and the lust for money that defies the New Testament. Speaking in tongues? And the need to forcefully and vocally identify as a Christian upon first meeting is very new to me as well. If you have the time, I would love someone to explain it to me, because I sure as hell don't know where it came from. Growing up, religion was very civilized and personal, now it's wailing in the parking lot of Chick-fil-a and prayers on the football field. Weird.

[Beartracks]

57. Or, as with some GOPers, trying to jam a CLOSET door shut...

... so teh gay can't get OUT!

==================

[treestar]

69. [phone]

America was established with freedom of religion. The first people who settled here were fleeing religious persecution.

[ladjf]

79. They love profit for themselves. nt

[DonCoquixote]

13. North carolina has been a disappointment

I remember when many wanted to move the convention from Charlotte to Milwaukee. We decided that,like Florida (which turned blue) we could stand with NC. Sadly, unlike Florida, they turned RED. It seems that all those bankers moving down south just decided to fit right into Dixie.

This Florida boy thanks North carolina for remind him that his state has done some things right, and we do not have the jobs that fled the North like NC did.

[DFW]

14. Constitution schmonstitution.............

Red States to the nation: send us the money. Then please shut up and go away.

[blkmusclmachine]

16. And, as always, crickets from the DEM Party.

So much for any opposition. Hell, the DEMS don't even go through the motion of caring anymore. They're too f/cking busy finding the "bipartisan middle" in screwing America's Middle and working class.

[TxDemChem]

18. Just read this on HP

Sickening. Absolutely sickening.

[davidpdx]

20. Is this like a choose your own adventure book?

Choose which parts of the constitution you think apply to your state?

[CanonRay]

22. The American Taliban at work

imposing their own brand of Sharia law.

[workinclasszero]

37. Here it comes..the teabaggers end game

Sharia law.

These bastards are no better than the Taliban. Both would destroy freedom in the USA.

I am a Christian and I abhor these people and what they are trying to do.

[Historic NY]

23. North Carolina Sharia Law........what will you choose

to be your state sponsored religion. Which religion will be consulted in law making and enforcement. NC claim religious sovereignty.


Its got to be the water down there.

[John2]

30. It is not the

majority of the state. Everyone else is going about their daily lives trying to make a living while you got a group of activists trying to place their views into law. They got themselves elected to office through gerrymandering by making sure they were mostly white rural districts. Even though Democrats won the popular vote, they didn't win the majority of the Districts.

Most people in North Carolina are religious and Christian. What these extremists rightwingers have done, is used the practice of certain beliefs in Christianity as code to make it easier for them to discriminate against certain groups. They are using parts of it get around being called racists, anti-Gay, anti-feminist or anti-Muslim. These people need to be exposed for what their real intentions are instead of tip toeing around the real issue. People have freedom of religion in this country period and for any Government official that tries to implement religion into the Constitution should not be in Government. A good advice to any good Christian, be happy that you can practice your religion but when you try to force your religion down someone's throat, that is over the line. There is a difference between converting and forcing people.

[Fuddnik]

24. What we have is a shortage of lions.

[lexx21]

25. As a "born and raised" North Carolinian ...

The thought of what my legislature is doing turns my stomach. It shows in a very bright light just how bat shit crazy the GOP is in this state. The fact that a bill would be introduced to the floor which calls for an "official state religion" shows the ignorance of some to constitutional rights.

[Chipper Chat]

26. Do you hear that giant rumbling sound?

It's George Washington turning over in his grave.

[nolabear]

28. NC used to be a "liberal" Southern state. And there are SO many liberals there. WTF?

Seriously, with Duke, NC State, UNC, the Research Triangle, myriad medical research hospitals, the place is teeming with immigrants in the med-tech field and student/researchers. The only thing I can figure is that those folks don't consider themselves North Carolinians and the old time moneyed tobacco and religious crowd is hanging onto power in any way they can.

I lived there for seven years and so help me it was a nice mix. My in laws are multigenerational North Carolinians (and a strange mix of liberal and ultraconservative) Some serious redneckery out in the country but some good folks too, and a tremendous amount of support for the arts and sciences. So, WTF???

[John2]

31. Like I said,

it is a few radical right wing extremists who are well paid and organized in the state, while everyone else are going about their daily lives. These people have an agenda. The only way to beat these people is to take them head on and run them out of politics. I don't believe in compromising with this current Republican Party. I think we have a score to settle in this country instead of worrying about other countries. The Republican Party is our number one enemy period!

[bluemarkers]

32. agreed, when the Koch bros tried to influence one education board

I woke up and realized how entrenched and nutty the gop had become.

Having the Edwards and Easley scandals at the same time, was throwing red meat to vultures.

[nolabear]

41. It's so easy to be complacent and fiddle while Raleigh burns.

I don't know about settling a score but getting active and raising a stink is getting to be paramount.

[blm]

34. GOP gerrymandered their way into full control of NC. When GOP talks religion it's masking

something else, like their attempts to takeover the cities of Charlotte, Raleigh and Greensboro and strip all control of their most valuable assets.

Seriously - TeaParty Pat McCrory has been trying to take control of Charlotte's airport and he's only been governor for 4 months.

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2013/03/31/3950110/new-nc-legislature-targets-arrogant.html

[otohara]

46. They Don't Vote

they sure as hell didn't vote in the special election on gay marriage.
My son is living in NC - he works for a band and they have been waiting for Obamacare to kick in - so they can
get insurance for all of them.

I gave them a piece of my mind after the special election. They think they are changing the world with their music .... shit, they don't even know what's going on in their back yard.

They need to relocate - N.C. is going backwards.

[nolabear]

47. Or they need to organize and vote.

I think your assessment is right.

[on point]

29. Wasn't this already resolved in 1865??

[Boomerproud]

81. Evidently not for some people

I can't believe these so-called representatives get votes outside of their families. I know (downthread) that the bill isn't going anywhere-but the very idea...extremely frightening.

[workinclasszero]

33. I thought teabag republicans worshiped the constitution?

Now they want to destroy it and set up a religious dictatorship?

How long will it take before people who don't follow the state approved religion are stoned to death or burned at the stake? Or maybe the state Pharisee's will be merciful and just drive the unbelievers out of the state and keep all the heathens land and property to distribute among the faithful?

Why do teabag republicans hate America?

[jeremyfive]

36. This is a direct affront to ALL North Carolinians! Vote these Republican Clowns OUT NOW!!!!

Vote these Republican Clowns OUT NOW BEFORE MORE DAMAGE TO OUR STATE IS DONE!!!!

I grew up in the country in North Carolina where I befriended a Jewish couple who have remained my closest friends for more than 40 years now.

This outrage is an affront to all North Carolinians! North Carolina has a liberal history, and this is what the very recent GOP coup effort has brought us to. THROW THE REPUBLICAN BUMS OUT NOW!!!

A primary value in North Carolina has been tolerance.

And don't think you are finding any meek peace-making good samaritans among this group of religious supremecists and haters running things in the NC capital. These are Republican haters.

[DebJ]

38. From a lawyer friend of mine:

"The First Amendment, as made applicable to the states by the Fourteenth, Murdock v. Pennsylvania, 319 U.S. 105, commands that a state "shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. . . ."

Everson v. Board of Education, 330 U.S. 1, 8 (1947). Unfortunately, there does not appear to be a lot of analysis in the Murdock case.

[yellowcanine]

49. Yep. Murdock v Pennsylvania says 1st Amendment applies to the States.

Make my day, North Carolina teabaggers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murdock_v._Pennsylvania

[Fortinbras Armstrong]

66. Here's a bit more from Justice Black's majority opinion in Everson

The 'establishment of religion' clause of the First Amendment means at least this: Neither a state nor the Federal Government can set up a church. Neither can pass laws which aid one religion, aid all religions or prefer one religion over another. Neither can force nor influence a person to go to or to remain away from church against his will or force him to profess a belief or disbelief in any religion. No person can be punished for entertaining or professing religious beliefs or disbeliefs, for church attendance or non-attendance. No tax in any amount, large or small, can be levied to support any religious activities or institutions, whatever they may be called, or whatever form they may adopt to teach or practice religion. Neither a state nor the Federal Government can, openly or secretly, participate in the affairs of any religious organizations or groups and vice versa. In the words of Jefferson, the clause against establishment of religion by law was intended to erect 'a wall of separation between Church and State.'

I could also mention Lemon v. Kurtzman, 403 U.S. 602 (1971), which established the three-pronged test — called the "Lemon Test" — for determining when a state has run afoul of the First Amendment’s Establishment Clause:

• The law or state policy must have been adopted with a neutral or non-religious purpose.

• The principle or primary effect must be one that neither advances nor inhibits religion.

• The statute or policy must not result in an "excessive entanglement" of government with religion.

Clearly, there is no way that a state can create an 'official' religion without going very wrong when it comes to meeting the Lemon Test.

[valerief]

39. Does this mean states can nullify Citizens United, too?

The bill says the First Amendment only applies to the federal government and does not stop state governments, local governments and school districts from adopting measures that defy the Constitution.

[mnhtnbb]

42. It's fast becoming an embarrassment to be a resident of NC.

All this teabaggery attack from the right wing has come as a result
of the 2010 mid terms when NC Dems did not come out to vote.

Repubs took over the State Legislature and gerrymandered
districts to their advantage.

They have attacked unemployment benefits, Medicaid, the UNC system,
voting rights, and now this. They're trying to hurry up approval
of fracking, too.

It is going to be unbelievable how much damage they will do to the state
until the next election. Unfortunately, NC is one of 12 states that has
no process to recall elected state representatives (or the governor).
We're in for a very long four years.

[neverforget]

43. We love the Constitution so much that we ignore it!

Who needs the Taliban when we have Republicans?

[EvolveOrConvolve]

44. Go home North Carolina, you're drunk

[horsedoc]

50. Why are we fighting a war against religious extremism in Afghanistan...

when we have the exact same problem here in the US. Between NC and Kansas ugh!!!!!!!!!!

[littlemissmartypants]

52. Koch addicted Carpetbaggers. Sorry ya'll "transplants" but some of my folks were here before the

Explorers got here and some arrived on the coast in 1604 (did I mention I love genealogy?) so this isn't the first time we have had a "hard row to hoe" we were very close to going blue this time so please lift us up. We have got to band together.

An old man is dying, and calls his people to his side. He gives a short, sturdy stick to each on his many offspring, wives, and relatives. "Break the stick," he instructs them. With some effort, they all snap their sticks in half. "This is how it is when a soul is alone without anyone. They can be easily broken."

The old man next gives each of his kin another stick, and says, "This is how I would like you to live after I pass. Put your sticks together in bundles of twos and threes. Now, break these bundles in half." No one can break the sticks when there are two or more in a bundle. The old man smiles. "We are strong when we stand with another soul. When we are with another, we cannot be broken."

Native American Legends

Love, Peace and Shelter. lmsp

[DollarBillHines]

53. I wonder which one it will be

That ought to make for an interesting fight.

[LoisB]

73. That was also my first thought.

[RoccoR5955]

54. There's also a bill to change the name of the state to...

Dumbfuckistan.

[geek tragedy]

55. Still the state that elected Jesse Helms repeatedly. nt

[Boardofools]

60. Do tell.

How much are these fiscal conservatives, (cough) allocating to defend this indefensible BS in court?

[daveMN]

61. As anybody who paid attention in high school civics can tell you,

the Supreme Court has ruled that the 1st amendment is made applicable to the states by the 14th. This is nothing more than an attempt by strict constructionist, state's rights wingnuts to spit in the face of those of us who understand the Supremacy Clause and know that the states cannot just ignore the Constitution or federal laws.

This ridiculous law, even if it were passed, wouldn't have a chance in hell of holding up in court.



Still, the fact that there are more than a few Americans who don't believe in separation of church and state makes me sad.

[Rhiannon12866]

62. Um, isn't that unconstitutional?

[freedom fighter jh]

63. Maybe they're interpreting the First Amendment to mean just what it says and nothing more.

The First Amendment says, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . .."

The First Amendment has been interpreted by the courts to extend to states, but that's a stretch; it does not prohibit a state religion. In fact, "make no law respecting an establishment of religion" could mean Congress can't interfere with a state's right to establish its own religion. Of course it's not Congress but the courts that have prohibited states from establishing religions, but judicial review, the right of courts to strike down laws, is not stated in the Constitution and some people (like Thom Hartmann, who is not a judge or even a lawyer but whom I like to listen to, I guess because I'm not a lawyer either) say judicial review is not a valid interpretation of the Constitution. Therefore "Congress shall make no law" could reasonably have been interpreted to mean "The Federal government shall make no rules" and NC would be in a good position to argue that in accepting the Constitution they did not accept a limitation on establishing a state religion and even that the First Amendment *protects* a state's right to establish a religion, since it keeps the Feds out of the issue.

Personally, I am grateful to live in a system that protects me from having other people's religions imposed on me. But at the same time i think NC may have a valid point.

[Fortinbras Armstrong]

67. Not according to the Supreme Court it doesn't. See my post above

But hey, when has the Bill of Rights -- except for the Second Amendment -- ever meant anything to a Conservative?

[Lifelong Protester]

65. Didn't this whole "separate themselves from the Federal government"

not work out so well for them, say 150 years ago?

Talk about not knowing your history.

[Fortinbras Armstrong]

68. Ignorance of history, economics and the law is encouraged among conservatives.

And is required for libertarians.

[Lifelong Protester]

72. I agree, but hoping for at least ONE cool head

among them. However, I know individualism is discouraged; follow the herd is encouraged. NOBODY THINK!!

[unc70]

82. NC was pro-Union, last to leave, suffered the most

NC was the last state to leave the Union. It suffered greatly. One third of adult men died of wounds or disease, another thir were wounded, many amputees.

Remember that NC was the main counter example in the Dred Scott dissent. A slave born in NC when freed was a natural born citizen, there were many free people of color in NC.

This stuff in NC is the same groups as elsewhere, ALEC, et al. The religion bill won't pass, but most of the rest will.

[AlinPA]

71. NC is one of the last southern states that I would expect to do something like this.I could see TX,

OK, KS, MS,GA,SC, WVA, TN, LA, FL, AL, but NC?

[Spitfire of ATJ]

74. What's next? A bill to make being unemployed a crime?

I've actually heard that from wingnuts before.

The idea being that ANYBODY can get a job if they want and jail will force their lazy asses up when they're told and teach them a trade like making license plates and doing laundry.

Of course, these days prison labor does a lot more. It's our new slave industry.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/10/prison-labor_n_2272036.html

[Andy Stanton]

75. This screwball proposal

Will be struck down by the courts. The NC constitution expressly forbids establishing a state religion.

Republicans have shown, once again, that they are the party of the vicious and the stupid.

[Blue Owl]

76. You can't go that far south and still call yourself North Carolina.

n/t

[Blue Owl]

77. It's as American as Batshit Pie

n/t

[Deep13]

78. treason. nt

[onenote]

85. I think you meant treason. not.

Its stupidity, but its not treason. At least not according to my copy of the Constitution.

[Deep13]

86. I guess, I don't even remember what this was about. nt

[alfredo]

80. The bill has failed.

[Sheepshank]

83. So those whole thing was like swatting a mosquito with a jackhammer.

this what myopic idiocy reaps.....nothing.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

84. The very fact that elected officials in this country would put forth such a bill demonstrates a

stupendously massive degree of arrogance and an appalling degree of hypocrisy (coming from supposed staunch Republican defenders of the Constitution.)