Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
12 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies

Xipe Totec

(43,872 posts)
1. This is pretty disgusting. If you have an opinion why don't you post it in the thread
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 10:37 PM
Apr 2013

Instead of doing this snarky roundabout?

caseymoz

(5,763 posts)
2. I just looked. He did post in the thread, too.
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 10:42 PM
Apr 2013

I guess it so upset him he didn't think a rebuttal under the title really did his objection justice.

rexcat

(3,622 posts)
3. I did a post in the original thread...
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 10:58 PM
Apr 2013

do bad some people make quick judgments without looking. I don't think this was that snarky and roundabout.

Maybe you are one of those who doesn't care about facts either.

KT2000

(20,544 posts)
4. why is this worth an OP?
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 11:35 PM
Apr 2013

Having made a post before - what is the purpose of this one?
It sure does appear to be snarky.

It was certainly a poorly written article but the link in the Common Dreams article has more information. The reason for the article is to discuss government efforts to protect people involved in human testing of new pharmaceuticals. In a country where healthy, young, illiterate humans are selling their kidneys to feed their families you better believe their population needs to be protected from possible exploitation by foreign corporations.

rexcat

(3,622 posts)
5. And I did a second post on informed consent...
Fri Apr 26, 2013, 12:19 AM
Apr 2013

and there was no real discussion in the original article from the Times of India about informed consent. The consent issue was brought up downstream by another poster.

The informed consent issue as seen in the pharmaceutical industry is always a compromise. As the debate goes "can anyone really be fully consented?" Anyone with any training or interest in ethics will typically say "no" but you have to give your best shot at informing the person who is giving consent. It is a paradox.

Do you really understand the ethical issues when it comes to informed consent? I seriously doubt you have taken much time to really think about it. I have because in my job this issue is always at the forefront. This is an area where science and ethics it head on.

The reason I brought it up here was the article in a newspaper was poorly done. My bad for thinking I would get an educated response in this forum.

on edit: this post does have some snark.

KT2000

(20,544 posts)
6. maybe you are not
Fri Apr 26, 2013, 12:36 AM
Apr 2013

as smart as you think. Why are you even talking about informed consent? My post was not addressing informed consent. Did you mean to post this for someone else?

The article was about some recognizing the need for the Indian government to have greater control and oversight of drug trials, especially when it comes to foreign corporations testing their products on Indian citizens.

Don't worry about it - everyone gets confused sometimes.

DreamGypsy

(2,252 posts)
7. See that reply I just added to the other thread - control and oversight...
Fri Apr 26, 2013, 01:07 AM
Apr 2013

...Calm down people - India has a Clinical Trials Registry and patient advocates...
@http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014466166#post14

Response to KT2000 (Reply #8)

rexcat

(3,622 posts)
12. There have been a lot of things...
Fri Apr 26, 2013, 11:31 PM
Apr 2013

thrown around on this topic and I have tried to respond to them since most of the people have no clue what goes on in the pharmaceutical industry. There was a response in the other thread concerning the use of subjects without consent and it was not the pharmaceutical companies that were the issue but rather a physician who was a principal investigator who precipitated the problems. It does not say who discovered the "fraud" but if the pharmaceutical company detected the fraud at the site the pharmaceutical company is obliged to report their discovery to the FDA and any other governmental agencies involved, including those in India.

The problem with a drug under a New Drug Application (NDA) with the US FDA is countries like India, is there is not good oversight within their borders. That is starting to change but it will take time.

I can safely say I know a hell of lot more about the US and EU regulations and ICH/GCP guidelines concerning the pharmaceutical industry and the ethical issues at hand than you but that is probably not saying much.

I don't really care for your condescending attitude towards me in your post #6, therefore, go have sexual intercourse with yourself!

 

demwing

(16,916 posts)
9. "I truly dislike people who have no understanding of science but seem to have an opinion on it."
Fri Apr 26, 2013, 05:00 AM
Apr 2013

So, what now? Now that we know what you dislike (truly), what are your expectations?

rexcat

(3,622 posts)
10. Did you go to the link...
Fri Apr 26, 2013, 10:01 PM
Apr 2013

and see my responses? It seems there are more than a few on DU that don't have a good understanding of science. That in its self is pathetic but having been involved with DU since early 2001 nothing surprises me. I have been accused of posting a snarky OP but it seems I am not the only one.

Good grief, your question misses the point completely. It has nothing to do with "expectations" but what should or can be done to remedy the problem. Considering the level of understanding of science in this country is extremely low I am not sure how to remedy the situation. For starters the science curriculum in our school systems could be strengthened and made more interesting. So it would seem that we need to revamp the way science teachers are taught in college. The hardest task is to make sure our children understand the principles of science and allow our teachers to teach science and keep religion out of it. If a student submits a paper referencing the bible that child should get an F. That is never going to happen anytime soon since the state legislatures in red states don't believe in science in the first place. There appears to be no easy solutions to this in the US as long as the conservative religious have an inordinate platform to speak from.

The best I can do is be active in my community and demand that the school system my kids go to have an excellent science curriculum and demand that good science continues to be a priority. I have been doing that so I can check that one off. Another item is to get the corporate mindset out of the classroom by getting rid of Arne Duncan as Secretary of Education and limiting the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation and their "educational" goals. I see them as dumbing down education by leaving out the development of critical thinking skill for our children. The last two items seem to be more problematic in resolving.

Latest Discussions»Culture Forums»Science»Some articles should not ...