Don’t stop believin’: Do atheists need a church?

[rug]

There's song and fellowship in London's first atheist church. But are these non-believers just having it both ways?

Sunday, Apr 28, 2013 12:00 PM EDT
By Katie Engelhart

One Sunday early this month, several hundred heathens gathered outside a deconsecrated church in East London. Most were twenty-something. The girls wore long, crinkled hair and silver rings: the boys, beards and last night’s suit jackets. It was uncommonly sunny, for England.

Distracted by the weather, perhaps, or by the sight of so many young things lining up for Sunday worship, a passing car rear-ended the vehicle ahead. The crowd groaned and jeered. “Don’t worry,” a young woman called out, between tender sips of Red Bull. “You’ve got, like, a hundred witnesses!” The crowd laughed and turned inwards, leaving two piqued drivers to the earthly task of exchanging insurance information.

Soon enough, the doors opened and we shuffled inside. Near the entrance to the foyer, several church ladies had set a table with biscuits and a few iced cakes.

At our final destination, the sanctuary, we were greeted by bare walls and dull paint; presumably, everything of grandeur had been stripped away when the church was rendered unsacred. (The Nave, on St. Paul’s Road, is now an “arts and performance space.”) Almost instantly, the rows of plastic chairs arranged before the altar were filled, and congregants began competing for floor space. A screen above their heads displayed the words “Live Better, Help Often, Wonder More.” And then, our high priest arrived.

http://www.salon.com/2013/04/28/dont_stop_believin_do_atheists_need_a_church/

[mysuzuki2]

1. I really do not see the point.

[backscatter712]

2. There's nothing wrong with community building.

Some atheists might do it by forming a church.

Others have their weekly get-togethers at the pub.

[SwissTony]

23. How do atheists "community build"?

We don't necessarily share one or more beliefs but we do share a lack of belief. If we decide to get together to, say, help the homeless or clean up a clean up litter in a public park, would we exclude Christians, Jews, Muslims etc who wish to contribute? I doubt it. But then it's not a "community" of atheists.

I agree with mysuzuki2 who stated (s)he "can't see the point".

Perhaps, there's a geographical factor. I accept coming out in some parts of the USA or in someone's personal circumstances may be difficult, to say the least. In that situation, I could believe that get-togethers could be great. But this event is London. Go into a pub and stand on a table and yell "I'm an atheist" and people will look at you like you're an idiot. Go into an Arsenal pub wearing a Spurs shirt and all bets are off (feel free to substitute your own London teams).

I suppose going to one of these meetings could be fun. Comedy, music, great speakers, singalongs. And then we go our separate ways. Hmmmm.

[backscatter712]

24. You don't need a huge amount of reasons.

There's common interests, like atheism, and skepticism. There's the potential to get together to do charity stuff. There's the political stuff, which gets necessary when the fundies are hell-bent on inflicting their nonsense on us heathens. When you meet with fellow atheists, friendships develop.

In my experience, the atheist groups I've been a part of tend to meet at bars, organizing over Facebook or Meetup.com, rather than forming churches,

[ForgoTheConsequence]

3. No.

I like having my Sundays free for other shit. The great thing about not believing is not going to church.

I don't believe, end of story. I don't need a club where we pat each other on the back.

[cbayer]

4. So you are not the member of any groups that share similar interests....

except DU?

[Shadowflash]

5. Sure.

But we don't call them churches.

I hang out, quite often, with a bunch of people who don't collect stamps. We don't call it a stamping party.

[cbayer]

7. Does it matter what they are called?

[Heddi]

9. Sure it matters

the word "church" has a certain meaning attached to it. Same as "Marriage". Same as "woman".

Otherwise, we could call schools "churches," churches "Megamalls" and megamalls "football player uniforms."

Since according to you, you wonder "does it matter what they are called"

Since you don't think that labels matter, then it would be okay instead of calling you a human woman, I called you a tadpole beerbong? I mean, does it matter what you are called??

[ForgoTheConsequence]

10. Yes.

That's why things have different names, so we can differentiate. I like to get drunk and sing old country songs at the shitty corner bar, I suppose I could call that going to church.

I could also call my car a bike and my dog a pretzel.

[cbayer]

11. Of course. You said you didn't need to belong to any groups, and I was

making the point that you probably do choose to belong to some groups.

What your groups are called and what other people's groups are called seems to make little difference. They are groups that one chooses to be affiliated with. Unless they infringe on the rights of others or promoted things like bigotry or hate, I don't think it makes much difference what they are called.

They are still groups of people that share certain interests.

[cleanhippie]

12. But a church is still a place where believers go to worship, and it matters what it called.

[AlbertCat]

15. And at how many of these gatherings....

.... do we go to be preached at? It's not like church is a party where everyone chit chats as they drink wine and eat unleavened bread. It's more like a class at school.... the socializing goes on afterward.

[muriel_volestrangler]

16. What FTC said was "I don't need a club where we pat each other on the back"

The qualification gives it quite a different meaning from "I don't need to belong to any groups".

[cbayer]

17. Well, then one might conclude that all churches are places where people

just pat each other on the back. I would disagree with that. While some are, certainly some non-religiously based groups are as well, including much of DU.

[muriel_volestrangler]

18. FTC would have to give more details of what the 'pat on the back' referred to

it could be just this atheist 'church' (and I can see that as a reasonable criticism of it, at present), it could be churches in general.

[cbayer]

19. Whatever he meant, he made a broad brush statement about what churches are

and said he didn't need that. My only point was that he most likely is a member of a group where members pat each other on the back. I would suggest that there are groups right here on DU that do just that, and some are decidedly not religious.

[ZombieHorde]

6. We've had them for years.

Last edited Mon Apr 29, 2013, 12:48 PM - Edit history (1)

They're called "comic book stores."

Go into any comic book store and say "God is dumb," and at most some people will roll their eyes. But say "Your interpretation of this Magic: The Gathering rule is dumb," and you'll probably find yourself in a heated argument very quickly.

[Shadowflash]

8. Ha!

So true!

Though the big difference between the two is that the Magic players at the comic book store actually realize that it's fiction..........

[Dorian Gray]

14. Usually

[backscatter712]

20. Them, and local pubs.

Atheists take the sacrament of beer very seriously!

[Dorian Gray]

13. I live right next to

The Society for Ethical Culture in Brooklyn. It's a non-theist meeting house, and it has clergy and Sunday meetings. They never refer to anything as "Church," though. I think that some people strive for groups and a community, while others don't. It's a very personal thing.

They have lots of artistic and other meetings throughout the week at the building. Community building meetings. And anyone is welcome to join.

[LiberalAndProud]

21. Still, it is a church. Guess why.

Legitimacy Information

This organization is registered with the IRS.
This organization is not required to file an annual return with the IRS because it is a church.

http://www.guidestar.org/organizations/11-1631749/brooklyn-society-ethical-culture.aspx

[Dorian Gray]

22. I go to a Church...

I'm Roman Catholic. I was just pointing out that this organization did exist, presumably because many like minded people want to gather and have a sense of community. If that's what a "Church" is for official IRS designating reasons, cool. They don't exactly talk about God or the afterlife at their meetings. They do have a lot of meetings about teaching people in the community how to compost.

[Phillip McCleod]

25. i don't.. but some might.

part of why i like being atheist is not going to chuch. i don't like groups in general, so bars are out too.. only real exception is concerts and museums, and those are rare enough. shopping, which i hate, is a necessity, so it don't count.

..

but i remember being on the edge of faith and the lack thereof, and it was a trying time. i imagine i would have jumped at the chance to hobnob with some fellow sincere doubters at the time. alas, that was before.

[Duer 157099]

26. If calling it a "church" gets tax-exempt status

then yes, I see the point.

Why shouldn't non-believers have a place to gather and have tax-exempt status like those that believe in ... other things?

[Dan Ken]

28. Non belief should be as tax-exempt as believers are! I agree

Why should non-believers not get tax exempt status?

I'm a non-believer, don't tax me!

See how this will eventually play out? No one will be tax exempt. which is fine with me, every $1 gets taxed the same way, on a progressive scale, from $1 to $1,000,000. After that, every dollar taxed at 33%....NO EXEMPTIONS FOR RELIGIONS, CHURCHES, CORPORATIONS, MILLIONAIRES fine with me. every person and entity gets equal treatment, 1/3 of ever millionaire's dollars go to the government, everybody gets health care, education, (not religious education, science-based, only, no religious colleges funded), everybody gets a job upon graduation, military, public service, or in competitive capital markets. No one amasses debt to get an education.......no one loses a job in a recession, the rich people pay to keep them employed.

Now, back to religion. why do people think belief in a god advances economic justice? List reasons below.

[Kalidurga]

27. Dumb question...

Just because there is no need doesn't mean that one shouldn't have a time and place to gather and chat or whatever.