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I am interested in people's stories of going from a believer to non-believer or vise versa. (Original Post) hrmjustin Apr 2013 OP
All I can say is that I can recall at a very early age SheilaT Apr 2013 #1
Your story is mine almost exactly, except I refused confirmation at age 12. I knew from Nay Apr 2013 #27
Growing up and learning that there was no such thing as a bunny rabbit that hides Easter eggs. AnotherMcIntosh Apr 2013 #2
grokked. fully. Phillip McCleod Apr 2013 #7
Raised Catholic and Parochial school attendee here Esse Quam Videri Apr 2013 #3
I was raised Irish Catholic Warpy Apr 2013 #4
"Because I wanted you to grow up with the same disadvantages I had, dear." DirkGently Apr 2013 #23
Unshakable faith DUgosh Apr 2013 #5
Faith in what? Th1onein Apr 2013 #29
In the afterlife DUgosh Apr 2013 #33
I hope so as well. hrmjustin Apr 2013 #34
Please tell me about your experience... Th1onein Apr 2013 #35
Google: "leaving catholic church" Dawson Leery Apr 2013 #6
yeh and google "terrorism" .. Phillip McCleod Apr 2013 #9
I was raised Southern Baptist. LuvNewcastle Apr 2013 #8
"Yewah" is the embodiement of evil. Dawson Leery Apr 2013 #11
I sincerely believe that I was born an atheist. rvt1000rr Apr 2013 #10
An accretion of observed irrationalities & contradictions DirkGently Apr 2013 #12
I think a lot of churchgoers are like that, raccoon Apr 2013 #20
Absolutely. I think there's an unspoken agreement that it's all DirkGently Apr 2013 #22
I think it had to be the bible. bravenak Apr 2013 #13
I was in the 2nd grade of a Catholic school when it suddenly... Walk away Apr 2013 #14
So this is the LONG version. LostOne4Ever Apr 2013 #15
Notice how many of the responders to this request are/were once Catholic. Interesting Ligyron Apr 2013 #16
I have a theory. DirkGently Apr 2013 #24
Creationism- I don't know of any Catholics No Vested Interest Apr 2013 #25
Interesting, although utterly unresponsive to my post. DirkGently Apr 2013 #31
You don't know ANY catholics who believe in creationism? Really? Fix The Stupid Apr 2013 #38
Ahem... Fix The Stupid Apr 2013 #39
The Roman Catholic Church okasha Apr 2013 #40
Thank you all for your responses. hrmjustin Apr 2013 #17
Can't remember ever believing. I come from a long (?) line of Scottish freethinkers. PassingFair Apr 2013 #18
i was a perfectly happy believer until i read Dawkins.. Phillip McCleod Apr 2013 #19
I grew up as a liberal protestant in a very politically and religiously conservative Southern city struggle4progress Apr 2013 #21
When God answered my prayers for Andrew Breitbart. Loudly Apr 2013 #26
Oh my... hrmjustin Apr 2013 #37
I became a non-believer when my son died. Th1onein Apr 2013 #28
I am a professional singer teenagebambam Apr 2013 #30
Soon as I found out bout Santa Claus... Iggo Apr 2013 #32
Raised in Independent Fundamentalist Baptist church OriginalGeek Apr 2013 #36
 

SheilaT

(23,156 posts)
1. All I can say is that I can recall at a very early age
Sat Apr 27, 2013, 10:51 PM
Apr 2013

questioning the faith I was being raised in, which was Roman Catholic. Before I was seven, I had a strong feeling that there was something very wrong with what I was being told, but I didn't have the intellect to formulate articulate arguments. So I went along with things until I was about 15 and tried to refuse to attend Mass. Unfortunately, my mother insisted for about a year or so, and then left me alone.

There is not a single one of us six kids, now middle-aged adults, who has been to church in years, except perhaps for a wedding or a funeral.

Even my mother stopped at some point. I'm not sure just when as I moved away from home at a relatively early age. But now that you've made me think about it, by the time I was perhaps 21 I don't think she was going to Mass anymore. At least when I visited and was there over a Sunday, I can't recall her ever going. Interesting, now that I look back.

Nay

(12,051 posts)
27. Your story is mine almost exactly, except I refused confirmation at age 12. I knew from
Sun Apr 28, 2013, 10:52 PM
Apr 2013

an early age that all that stuff was just stories. I remember, as a young child, that I was astounded when I realized that kids and ADULTS actually thought these stories were TRUE. I had categorized them all as the same as the Easter Bunny, Santa, etc.

 

AnotherMcIntosh

(11,064 posts)
2. Growing up and learning that there was no such thing as a bunny rabbit that hides Easter eggs.
Sat Apr 27, 2013, 10:53 PM
Apr 2013

Once you realize that is nonsense, it makes it easier to recognize other nonsense.

However, I remember liking the part about God looking like me but only bigger (except for being invisible). When I was a kid, I thought that God had red hair and green eyes.

Esse Quam Videri

(685 posts)
3. Raised Catholic and Parochial school attendee here
Sat Apr 27, 2013, 10:53 PM
Apr 2013

For me I think it was the whole George Bush era and all the right wing religious nuts that frothed at the mouth for us to invade Iraq. These god fearing "Christians" had no problem with the deaths of hundreds of thousand of innocent Iraqis. It was because of this that I had to really take a look at the whole god thing. I mean if this god could condone such behavior of his/her followers then I really wanted nothing to do with him/her.

Warpy

(110,913 posts)
4. I was raised Irish Catholic
Sat Apr 27, 2013, 10:53 PM
Apr 2013

and put into Catholic schools. I can never remember believing, exactly, I can remember being afraid not to believe. Big difference.

At the ripe old age of ten I'd had enough and rather than getting their reputations sullied by a precocious brat who was asking too many uncomfortable questions, my parents sprung me and I started going to public school.

Two years later, at 12, I discovered Bertrand Russell and that there was nothing particularly wrong with not believing a word of it.

My mother later confessed to being an agnostic and I always knew she believed in reincarnation, typical Irish. When I asked her why she shoved me into Catholic school, her reply was "Because I wanted you to grow up with the same disadvantages I had, dear."

My mother was kicked out of a convent school for rolling tin cans down a fire escape at 2 AM.

DirkGently

(12,151 posts)
23. "Because I wanted you to grow up with the same disadvantages I had, dear."
Sun Apr 28, 2013, 07:34 PM
Apr 2013

I don't usually do this, but ...



I think my mother would say something similar.


Dawson Leery

(19,348 posts)
6. Google: "leaving catholic church"
Sat Apr 27, 2013, 11:08 PM
Apr 2013

Many stories explaining people's problems with the church's criminal history (child abuse/Magdalene laundries/selling of babies in Spain).
The church does not apologize, only apologizes for "misunderstandings".

 

Phillip McCleod

(1,837 posts)
9. yeh and google "terrorism" ..
Sat Apr 27, 2013, 11:30 PM
Apr 2013

.. then look at the justifications given by the perps for that terrorism. might have something to do with it. i won't deny a lot of the justification is political in nature, but there is a *reason* that appeals to religious belief are an effective affectation to further a political cause. they work. religious believers can, given the right witch's brew and the right hands pulling the rhetorical strings, be quite *charismatic*.

LuvNewcastle

(16,820 posts)
8. I was raised Southern Baptist.
Sat Apr 27, 2013, 11:27 PM
Apr 2013

They believe the Bible is the inspired, infallible word of God. That book was used by them to make a few feel superior while at the same time condemning everyone who didn't agree with their point of view. I came to the conclusion that the God of the Bible is an evil God who shouldn't be worshiped. If I'm going to believe in a God, he'll need to be one that loves and doesn't promote strife between people.

rvt1000rr

(40 posts)
10. I sincerely believe that I was born an atheist.
Sat Apr 27, 2013, 11:41 PM
Apr 2013

My truly wonderful parents were devout Southern Baptists, deacons and Sunday School teachers, but, from my earliest memories, I never "believed". Growing up in a small rural Missouri town, that was not something that one would be outspoken about as a child trying to be accepted into local society.

Consequently, I largely just went along to get along, as it were, until I left for college.
Oddly enough, I naively thought, early on,that everyone felt the way that I did and that we were all doing the same elaborate social dance that was just part of life. When, at about age ten, I finally realized that people actually fervently believed in God and Satan and angels and demons, and all of the associated mythology, I was shocked.

I still am.

DirkGently

(12,151 posts)
12. An accretion of observed irrationalities & contradictions
Sun Apr 28, 2013, 12:24 AM
Apr 2013

From a foundation of laissez-faire Catholicism:

As a young child:

- The Pope says birth control is wrong. But our family didn't believe that for a second, because it clearly makes no damn sense. So, the Church / Pope are not infallible.

- The concept of Heaven. Everything is perfect and blissful after you die. But still, no one wants to die? So, no one really believes that. In fact, it would be horrifying if they did.

- Santa Claus. That bastard.
Toddled out one morning and asked who really put that stuff under the tree. They gave it up, along with the other cast of childhood fairy gift-bringers. No! Not the Easter Bunny too! Looking back, that kind of cracked it all open -- I got that the make believe was intended as a gift, but I also resented the psychological whiplash a little, even then. The idea that children should be tricked to make things seem magical and safe -- so long as you followed the rules -- is a pretty obvious parallel to religion. Do as we say, or a magic being you can't see will withhold gifts or inflict punishment.

- Catechism class
Not the rigid theological teaching Catholicism is known for, but rather a squishy, generalized "god is love" message, repeated insipidly in a series of pastel-colored, pamphlet-thin "textbooks." Year after year. Around 8th grade, class was taught by a married couple who were both jittery, chain-smoking alcoholics. I'd ask questions and they'd smile wanly and chuckle that I was a "technician" and nip outside for an unfiltered Pall Mall. No substance, whatsoever. They didn't even bother presenting a coherent philosophy. Be nice to people? Okay, but I don't need all this stuff to know that, do I?

- The Bible:
- Abraham was going to sacrifice his son until god said, "psyche?" Oh dear. This is not my kind of deity. Or, more likely, this is a story made up by people evolving their mythology from a culture of animal (and human?) sacrifice. So, this is not divinely inspired thinking. It's superstition, and cruel superstition at that.

- Etc. The plagues of Egypt? Put blood on your door or god will murder your first born? So god is some kind of automated weapon system? Thhhppt.

College:
General exposure to the idea of cultural constructs, the evolution of mythology to reinforce practical needs, general collegiate authority questioning, critical thinking, etc. The contradictions and fallacies stopped looking like cracks in the wall and more like a towering pile of overbearing nonsense.

The final realization though, was that even as a kid, I'd been carrying religion. It never made sense, really. Plenty of supposedly religious people I knew were clearly into the ritual and tradition, but didn't actually, literally believe it. It was a game. A cognitively dissonant game, where you try to hold an idea in your head as sort of a good luck charm, even though you don't actually believe it. Because if you did, you'd be following a mountain of weird rules and primitive ideas about morality that range from the ignorant to the downright wrong. Once you see it that way, the idea of faith is cooked. It seems hypocritical at best, neurotic at worst. Ultimately, you can't will yourself into believing something. It was a moral choice to stop trying.





raccoon

(31,092 posts)
20. I think a lot of churchgoers are like that,
Sun Apr 28, 2013, 02:18 PM
Apr 2013

"Plenty of supposedly religious people I knew were clearly into the ritual and tradition, but didn't actually, literally believe it."


DirkGently

(12,151 posts)
22. Absolutely. I think there's an unspoken agreement that it's all
Sun Apr 28, 2013, 07:26 PM
Apr 2013

mostly metaphor and educational storytelling. Which is the most useful attitude I think. There is good information in the Bible, and interesting history. It's when thundering ideologues use it to reinforce their own authoritarian desires that it becomes destructive.

I think that view is possible even with genuine faith. People believe there is a deity, of some kind, that wants to see order and goodness. They don't get hung up on the outdated ethics or the threats of existential destruction. These are your everyday religious folks, and I respect their approach.
 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
13. I think it had to be the bible.
Sun Apr 28, 2013, 12:27 AM
Apr 2013

I read the entire thing when I was a teen. I knew when I was done to put it on the fiction shelf. I never really believed in god before, but I was kinda scared I was wrong and going to hell. Once I read the bible, it was clear. I found the book disturbing with absolutely no redeeming qualities.
I also didn't like the fact that there is absolutely no proof that any of this magical stuff happened.
And nobody that lived at the same time as Jesus ever wrote about him. Why wait a hundred years to mention him? Made me doubt that he existed.

Walk away

(9,494 posts)
14. I was in the 2nd grade of a Catholic school when it suddenly...
Sun Apr 28, 2013, 12:28 AM
Apr 2013

occurred to me in the middle of a long lecture on Jesus and Mary faith and sin, that it was all just bunk! It was as if I had some kind of brain fart and reality seeped in. It was a wonderful perspective to have in relation to the manipulative garbage my friends had shoveled down their throats year after year by their faith peddlers. After that I began to read about all types of myth and religion. I joined the Unitarian Church at 14 yrs and called myself an Atheist for the first time.

I have always been at peace with my understanding. I wouldn't give believers a thought for the rest of my life but they are so dangerous and destructive. They want to force their beliefs, rules and laws onto to everyone else. They cause so much death, guilt, misery and poverty. If only believers would mind their own business, the world would be a much more peaceful and less crowded place.

LostOne4Ever

(9,267 posts)
15. So this is the LONG version.
Sun Apr 28, 2013, 04:01 AM
Apr 2013

I gave the short version of this in the ask an atheist thread, so this is the full version:

I was raised in a liberal Catholic household. We went to church and I even went to sunday school but we were FAR from observant. We believed in contraception, ate meat on fridays, and thought that abortion was none of our buisness.

In fact, my mom was only a Catholic because my grandmother was rather un-religious and would not let her go to church at all till she was a teenager and old enough to make up her own decisions. My mom went to multiple churches and decided on the Catholic church was the only church around were we lived that did not bash the other churches (more like they pretended they didn't even exist). However, we stopped going to the church altogether when my mom got MS and could no longer walk.

So, I was raised with a strange combination of reverence to God and suspicion about organized religion. I should mention that for as long as I can remember I have always been EXTREMELY socially liberal (later in college the election of GWBush made me economically liberal as well) and I HATED people like Pat Robertson/Jerry Falwell. To my young mind they were what was wrong with Christianity. However, I was deeply bothered that there were passages in the bible that supported their bigotry.



I was also bothered by many of the stories in the bible that depicted God himself acting in what I saw as brutal if not down right evil ways (The flood, Burning of Sodom/Gomorrah/ turning Lot's wife into salt, killing the first born child of the egyptian people because of the actions of their pharaoh, etc).

It wasn't until early high school that we ever studied about Deism. It was mirrored my own ideas on "how God should be" perfectly. However, I was scared of Hell for a while. I began thinking of myself as a Deist, though I kept on waffling back to a liberal version of Christianity that saw pretty much all the Bible as nothing more than a big fable. Finally, around the time I entered college and read the Age of Reason by Thomas Paine, and the Tao Te Ching I came to some conclusions:

  1. If mankind truly did have the ability to tell the difference between good and evil then I should be able to tell difference if i encountered it in the bible.

  2. If knowledge of good and evil did come from God, then it was god himself telling me to reject the bible and Christianity. If that knowledge transcended god then the god of the bible was wrong.

  3. The bible itself said in addition to knowing the difference between right and wrong, the way to heaven would not be the easy path. But what could be easier than being born into the ONE TRUE religion. It seemed more likely that if we were being tested by some Deity that the entire purpose of the bible was to see if we would put our faiths in some book written by mere humans, or if we would follow our conscience and reject it.

  4. Finally, and probably most importantly, if God were truly benevolent he would not hold it against me if my search for the truth took me away from the Church. Even if I made the wrong decision a benevolent god would not punish me for seeking the truth.


With that I left Christianity and the Catholic Church behind. Following that I considered myself a full fledged Deist.

Over the next couple of years are variety of things began to happen simultaneously. I became interested in Mark Twain and read his book Letters from the Earth, and many of the themes in LFtE resonated with me deeply (especially his version of Noah's arc). I was also VEHEMENTLY anti war and was troubled by the Iraq war. I also started to learn of the extent of brutality happening in parts of Africa. All of this while studying for a Biology major (which includes a healthy dose of required chemistry, calculus based Physics and REAL history) in college.

I began having doubts about there being any kind of God, as I could not see why they would not intervene. People were dying in horrible horrible ways. I could not see how even a neutral creator would not choose to intervene. Why didn't he intervene in these wars? Why didn't he protect these young innocent children in Africa? Especially the young girls who were getting raped and mutilated, what purpose did allowing that serve? Why did he allow there to be diseases that could maim, disfigure, and cause a person to die in such horrible ways? This has been happening for centuries, yet he still allows it to happen. Why?

Meanwhile, what I was studying in the way biology, chemistry, and especially physics got me interested in Pan-theism. Specifically I thought everything in the universe is nothing more than various forms of energy. What if God was energy and energy was God? So I began to learn about Spinoza and the comparison between pan-theism and atheism. I started to wonder, relatively, is there really that much difference between god is all and there is no god?

All of this just eventually led me to agnosticism and implicit atheism. I just got to the point I doubted there was any god. I now think that IF there is a single creator deity he/she/it is probably like the God of Deism. If there are many gods, they were probably like humans, some good, some bad, and all of them with relatively little power to interfere with our world (this is the least plausible scenario in my mind). If god is all (which i consider the most probable scenario involving a god), then my relation with the world does not change in any way.

But I just don't think there are any gods though. Its possible, I just don't believe it.

DirkGently

(12,151 posts)
24. I have a theory.
Sun Apr 28, 2013, 07:51 PM
Apr 2013

American Catholics, in my observation, and in a lot of polling showing them to be far more liberal than the Vatican, seem to have a built-in ability to separate dogma and ritual from fundamentalist religious belief. Maybe it's the way the schools and monasteries came over from the old world, but didn't jibe with the American attitude. People went, but didn't come away convinced. Then sent their own kids anyway.

I've met a lot of Catholics who go church, even send their kids to Catholic school, but would never subscribe to Creationism or eschew birth control, or decry abortion as murder. It's a casual theology, despite the ancient traditions. It puts me in mind of many of the Jewish people I've met, who are observant as far as holidays, go to Temple, but privately are nearly or actually agnostic. You never hear them talking about god as though they had a chat last Thursday.

Then there's Mel Gibson and Opus Dei, of course.

No Vested Interest

(5,157 posts)
25. Creationism- I don't know of any Catholics
Sun Apr 28, 2013, 10:45 PM
Apr 2013

who believe in it, because the Church doesn't preach that. I don't know what "fundamentalist belief" you're referring to regarding the Vatican.

"Schools and monasteries came over from the old world" ? Catholic schools in the U.S. were begun early in the 1800's by Mother Elizabeth Seton, a widow with children and a convert from the Episcopal Church. The schools were strongly supported by Catholics because in that period the public schools taught from the Protestant Bible, which teaching continued well into the end of the 19th century in many places.

As for sending their kids to Catholic schools - you bet they do, because most understand that the education and structure their children get is well worth the cost, and the education is usually balanced and superior to public school, at least in urban areas.
The only problem is that tuition in many parochial schools has become too expensive for many to afford, without nuns offering their services for low pay. Therefore, some Catholics now send their children to public grade and high school in order that they'll be able to assist their children in paying for college.

Fix The Stupid

(947 posts)
38. You don't know ANY catholics who believe in creationism? Really?
Tue Apr 30, 2013, 11:34 AM
Apr 2013


Ex-catholic here...vivid memories of our weekly school lecture with the town priest and listening to the stories of adam & eve, the talking snake, eden, etc.

Why would they preach this if it's not what they believe? Was my priest 'going rogue' and preaching creationism to spite the catholic leadership?

okasha

(11,573 posts)
40. The Roman Catholic Church
Tue Apr 30, 2013, 01:31 PM
Apr 2013

accepted evolution a long time ago. "Creationism" generally refers to the belief that God created all species, including humans, in their present and/or final form at the same time. Hence "Jesus horses."

PassingFair

(22,434 posts)
18. Can't remember ever believing. I come from a long (?) line of Scottish freethinkers.
Sun Apr 28, 2013, 12:59 PM
Apr 2013

History of dis-belief on my father's side..

Didn't want to go to church:
My mother dragged us kids to church anyway.
Left my father at home, comfortably reading the paper in his pajamas.

Always asking questions:
I remember asking lots of questions. I remember my mother giving
my father LOTS of "don't you dare answer that" looks.

No "reverence", ever:
I remember my brother and I messing with the youth church
choir director...both of us singing "A Zombie, A Zombie" instead
of "A Sunbeam, A Sunbeam" from different sides of the choir so
she couldn't tell who was doing it.

I came out as an atheist at 12, in confirmation classes. Luckily,
the pastor was a true good guy and a charmer. He told me that
my opinions and questions were valid, but "could I just get through
the class so that my mother wouldn't freak out".

Now I can barely stomach going to churches, even for funerals.

 

Phillip McCleod

(1,837 posts)
19. i was a perfectly happy believer until i read Dawkins..
Sun Apr 28, 2013, 01:42 PM
Apr 2013

..just kidding! i've only read snippets.. tho what i've read i agree with.

truth is i have stories from vise and versa. i vacillated between non-belief and experiments in believing through the most trying period of my life (pretty much all of my 20s). christianity, the religion i grew up with (the methodist sect), was the first to go.. by the time i graduated high school in 1992 i'd been calling myself an atheist for a couple years. the transition wasn't that crisp, of course..

i can see the roots of my nonbelief in preteen years, but the truth is i was a lazy atheist. i stopped going to church at 12, and didn't want to think about it, but it wouldn't leave me alone. friends and teachers and neighbors were all believers, as was everyone else everywhere, as near as i could tell.

that's the way privilege works i guess. some of those believing friends and their parents liked to put the heat on. i was always polite about turning people down for offers to pray together, etc, but as time wore on it got harder and harder to refuse politely.

i remember first encountering the term 'atheist' on some random BBS (remember those?) at about 17, and just immediately thinking/feeling, 'there's a *word* for this?!' so i started using that word. i lost some friends that way, but they also stopped badgering me to join their creepy christian youth group or read the bible together.

after that, i read the bible, alright, but never to understand god. i wanted to understand believers and what motivated them were these books. i became interested in anthropology, sociology and social psychology and that was my first minor when i went off to college.

that's where i veered off into another life. if i hadn't got two awesome sons out of it, i'd say my 20s were a total waste. i am embarrassed to confess that i tried religions on like hats, one after the other in the following order..

START as self-described 'atheist/agnostic' ..
wicca (i was in a coven for about a year),
carlos castenada wannabe-native-american-new-age-spiritualism,
rastafarianism (whiteboy dreads to my ass),
hinduism (yeh worshiped a giant golden monkey for a while; it was actually really *hot* and i don't mean the temperature),
DIVORCED ,
buddhism* (spent two weeks circum-ambulating a stupa, but mostly it was the meditation and kung fu that i practiced),
judaism* (studied kabbalah with chasid rev who's now back in israel.. from about the time i grew dreads until.. well, now)

the last two are *'d because really, about the time of my divorce (married 7 years, go figure) i had a more or less psychotic break and started hearing birds talking. went on a buddhist retreat where i got serious about tai chi/kung fu and never really went back to belief. i had to cut all magical thinking out of my mind, excise it with the razor of rationality, and quiet mind meditation gave me the mental discipline to do that. kung fu gave me the emotional steel to see it through. i still meditate, and i can still kick the hat off a man's head.

my flirtation with judaism came about via kabbalah, as mentioned, which seems to make some allowances for agnosticism.. even to encourage it from a certain POV. it is 'negative theology' in that one cannot say what god *is*, only what god is *not*. i got myself a job at a jewish cafe run almost like a kibbutz by the local israeli expat community, which is fairly populous here, and found them to be delightfully open-minded in entertaining the idea that god is not anything at all. in fact, the (now) rev arnon said straight up that he hated to talk theology. judaism doesn't necessarily depend on belief, i learned, but is deeply cultural. even though i was accepted, i knew i didn't belong. eventually i got a better job and in time have drifted apart from these friends, though i'm still in contact.

so i didn't just read a lot of holy books and find them wanting. i immersed myself in these religions, read their holy books, and found them wanting .. or at least not wanting me.

it was around 9/11 when i went back to self-identifying as an 'atheist' over 'agnostic', and i prefer it this way. it avoids so much muss and confusion.. even hurt feelings, since it's known i'm an atheist, people tend not to float their woo past me.. nobody likes having their spiritual woo bubble popped, y'know?

plus, this world needs us, in a bad way. atheists are humanities anchor to reality in these heady days of 'believe what you want, nobody can tell you NO'. atheists say, 'NO' and it's stirs me every time. it's speaking truth to an ancient and mostly malevolent power.. magical thinking.

struggle4progress

(118,041 posts)
21. I grew up as a liberal protestant in a very politically and religiously conservative Southern city
Sun Apr 28, 2013, 04:28 PM
Apr 2013

where my views were often regarded by my peers as clear evidence of my essential atheist and communist tendencies: IIRC I was first called a communist when I was in fourth grade, for asserting that desegregation would really be a good thing. So naturally I developed some interest in atheism and communism: hey! whatever upsets these bozos (I reasoned) might be worth knowing about! I read constantly, wandering through texts like Russell's Why I Am Not a Christian (for example) before I left elementary school or Thomas Paine's Age of Reason a few years later. Russell didn't much impress me, but I much admired Paine's brilliant rhetoric.

Having learned (somewhat) to think for myself, I gradually came to the conclusion that everything I had been taught was untrue: America was not a shining beacon of freedom for the world, but a society driven by consumerism and rationalized by self-serving sentimentality; religion was mere wishful thinking; science was just as likely to end human life as we know it, through nuclear war and industrial pollution, as it was to improve conditions through advances in medicine and crop science.

I wandered through a period of cynicism, during which I survived my hopelessness by cultivating an absurdist sense of humor. I continued to read almost anything interesting I could put my hands on: collections of early papers on quantum mechanics, histories of the Spanish civil war, collections of Buddhist or Sufi or other such texts, philosophy, whatever. Finally, I started serious study of mathematics, simply because I found I enjoyed it, but I continued to feel moral outrage at the state of the real world, coupled with a contradictory sense of obligation to do something that would make a difference and a certain conviction that whatever I did was quite unlikely to have any meaningful effect whatsoever. I then added some political activism to the mix, learning about some labor and environmental and international human rights issues from a small group of experienced local activists, and discovered that organizing could be fun and productive: the status quo would indeed ignore us whenever possible, but if we were honest and informed and thoughtful, and if we thought intelligently and flexibly about both short-term and long-term goals, we would sometimes (not always) win!

If anything, such developments only sharpened my internal contradictions: I felt a strong moral obligation to consider political and social issues from a largely materialist perspective, but many of the issues that concerned me seemed unsolvable, and yet that unsolvability did not remove in any way my moral obligations; moreover, these issues were real issues because they ultimately concerned real people, and my moral dilemmas therefore had an unavoidable interpersonal aspect, that required at least as much attention as the necessary abstract analyses of underlying material conditions. At this point, I encountered the Liberation Theologians, who showed that Marxist approaches could not only illuminate the Bible but also that both Marxists and Christians could benefit from such readings: this was the era when Fidel Castro said: All the communists are becoming Christians, and all the Christians are becoming communists!

The history of Liberation Theology is peculiar: it arose as Catholics working among impoverished Latin Americans considered the contradictions of their world and work, but perhaps its earlier roots can be traced to a period of frank conversation between Marxists and Christians in East Germany after WWII, a result of surprising friendships developed during the anti-Nazi resistance, when some Christian resistance fighters found their best allies were certain atheist Marxists and some Marxist resistance fighters found their best allies were certain devout Christians

I myself, of course, have always been far too cynical to describe myself as (say) a communist. But I began to see then: the Light shines on in the darkness, and the darkness has never understood it



Th1onein

(8,514 posts)
28. I became a non-believer when my son died.
Sun Apr 28, 2013, 11:01 PM
Apr 2013

If there is a God, he's not what he's cracked up to be, and I hate him.

teenagebambam

(1,592 posts)
30. I am a professional singer
Sun Apr 28, 2013, 11:11 PM
Apr 2013

and spent many years working for pay in churches of various denominations. Like DirkGently said, "Plenty of supposedly religious people I knew were clearly into the ritual and tradition, but didn't actually, literally believe it" and that goes double for the clergy. A combination of seeing up close what goes on "behind the scenes", and expanding my own horizons (I am a gay man, and so was on 'the edges' from the get-go anyway). I was raised Lutheran, but now would probably describe myself as agnostic - I believe there is some higher order or purpose or whatever to the Universe, but I don't know what exactly that is, and don't believe that it can be encapsulated by human knowledge or experience - yet.

Iggo

(47,489 posts)
32. Soon as I found out bout Santa Claus...
Mon Apr 29, 2013, 10:05 AM
Apr 2013

...it was really only a matter of time before I put two and two together.

OriginalGeek

(12,132 posts)
36. Raised in Independent Fundamentalist Baptist church
Tue Apr 30, 2013, 02:37 AM
Apr 2013

and went all 4 years of high school to IFB-run school.

I think I started thinking it was bullshit in my early teens but the constant beatings made sure I didn't say that out loud too much.

Got tired of the racism and intolerance and hypocrisy and left home at 17 to escape all that and my step-father.

That's the short version. I just don't believe in any of it any more.

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