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Fri Apr 26, 2013, 09:08 PM

Caesar's Messiah: The Roman Conspiracy to Invent Jesus

Interesting documentary/theory about who invented Jesus and Christianity and why. I'm not so sure I buy all of this but there's a lot of great information here and obviously someone invented Jesus we know in Christianity.

Here's a sinopsis.
Based on the best-selling religious studies book by Joseph Atwill, this documentary shows that Jesus is not a historical figure, the events of Jesus' life were based on a Roman military campaign, his supposed second coming refers to an event that already occurred, and the Gospels were written by a family of Caesars who left us documents to prove it.


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Arrow 14 replies Author Time Post
Reply Caesar's Messiah: The Roman Conspiracy to Invent Jesus (Original post)
moobu2 Apr 2013 OP
rug Apr 2013 #1
Dawson Leery Apr 2013 #2
boomer55 Apr 2013 #3
rurallib Apr 2013 #5
boomer55 Apr 2013 #14
rurallib Apr 2013 #4
struggle4progress Apr 2013 #6
madrchsod Apr 2013 #7
struggle4progress Apr 2013 #8
struggle4progress Apr 2013 #9
struggle4progress Apr 2013 #10
Warren Stupidity Apr 2013 #11
rug Apr 2013 #12
Warren Stupidity Apr 2013 #13


Response to moobu2 (Original post)

Fri Apr 26, 2013, 09:15 PM

2. K/R

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Response to moobu2 (Original post)

Fri Apr 26, 2013, 09:33 PM

3. Cool

 

Have to read it later. Have you hit the pagan christs website?

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Response to boomer55 (Reply #3)

Fri Apr 26, 2013, 09:50 PM

5. could you give me a link? I am so curious.

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Response to rurallib (Reply #5)

Sat Apr 27, 2013, 12:41 AM

14. Here it is. Cool info there

 

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Response to moobu2 (Original post)

Fri Apr 26, 2013, 09:50 PM

4. got to come back tomorrow and finish this - thanks

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Response to moobu2 (Original post)

Fri Apr 26, 2013, 09:58 PM

7. well that is different but.....

not anywhere near the truth.

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Response to moobu2 (Original post)

Fri Apr 26, 2013, 10:00 PM

8. Joseph Atwill's Caesar's Messiah: A Critique

This one can only be charitably be described as "way out there." It does have the endorsement of a credentialed scholar or two; albeit, those who are also regarded as "out there" by their peers ... It does exceed the credibility of the Piso theory by a razor-thin margin, inasmuch as it at least uses real people rather than inventing them out of nothing but semantics. But the virtues over the Piso theory stop there ... http://www.tektonics.org/books/csmessrvw.html

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Response to moobu2 (Original post)

Fri Apr 26, 2013, 10:06 PM

9. Joseph Atwill's, Caesar’s Messiah: The Roman Conspiracy to Invent Jesus

Reviewed by Robert M. Price

... First, we are to accept a common, if committee, authorship of Matthew, Mark, Luke John, and Josephus’ The Jewish War. The whole idea seems, well, absurd ...

... only the most obtuse reader, the most tin-eared, can possibly fail to appreciate the sublime quality of so much of the New Testament (agree or disagree with it), which is necessary to do if one is to dismiss the whole thing as an elaborate joke on the reader. Rather, the joke is on Atwill, whose great learning has apparently driven him mad. Just think of someone advancing the same theory about, say, the Buddhist scriptures. The worst of them are far too tedious and turgid to have been composed to fill out a hoax (who would have gone to the trouble?), while the more readable and winsome (like the Dhammapada) are filled with a wisdom beyond the reach of a worldly-minded scoffer. As to Jesus’ teachings, Atwill declares that “those who see spiritual meaning in his words are being played for a fool” ... Such a statement is only a damning self-condemnation, revealing the author’s own absolute inability to appreciate what he is reading. This is why one must not throw one’s pearls before swine ...

Atwill claims he has learned to read the esoteric secrets of the gospels, whereby they are seen as black-comedic satires of events in the Jewish War. For instance, when Jesus offers his flesh for consumption at the Last Supper, it is “really” a wink to the reader who is somehow supposed to think of a passage in Josephus set during the Roman siege, when a woman eats the roasted flesh of her own infant. When Jesus offers to make his disciples fishers of men, the line is supposed to sardonically anticipate a wartime episode in which the Romans picked off fleeing Jewish rebels swimming in the Lake of Galilee. Thinking his method justified by comparison to the ancient practice of scriptural typology, Atwill gives himself license to indulge in the most outrageous display of “parallelomania” ever seen. He connects widely separated dots and collects sets of incredibly far-fetched verbal correspondences, from gospel to gospel and between the gospels and Josephus, then uses them to create ostensible parallel accounts. Then he declares himself justified in borrowing names, themes, and intended references from one “parallel” account and reading them into the other, thus supplying “missing” features. Triumphantly, Atwill defies the reader to call it all coincidence, working out the math to show such correspondences could never be the product of chance. Well, of course they are not. They are the product of his own arbitrary gematria in the first place ...

One hates to be so severe in the analysis of the work of an innovative thinker who gives us the gift of a fresh reading of familiar texts, but in the present case it is hard to euphemize. The reading given here is just ludicrous. There are indeed surprising parallels between Josephus and the gospels that traditional exegesis has never been able to deal with adequately, but surely the more natural theory is the old one, that the gospel writers wrote late enough to have borrowed from Josephus and did so ...


http://www.robertmprice.mindvendor.com/rev_atwill.htm

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Response to moobu2 (Original post)

Fri Apr 26, 2013, 10:13 PM

10. Review: “Caesar’s Messiah: The Roman Conspiracy to Invent Jesus”

Review: “Caesar’s Messiah: The Roman Conspiracy to Invent Jesus”

According to “Caesar’s Messiah,” Jesus Christ is an entirely fictional character and the New Testament is nothing but pro-Roman, anti-Semitic propaganda. That’s quite a provocative premise for such a didactic, monotonous and unconvincing documentary. One doesn’t have to be a true believer to find the film’s craftsmanship laughable, creating an unavoidable obstacle to taking any of its convoluted conspiracy theories seriously ...

A breathless narrator desperately tries to establish how explosive the ensuing talking-head theories are (“Some of our Bible scholars are mavericks working outside the restrictions of mainstream religious institutions!”), but aside from primary interviewee Joseph Atwill’s unwavering conviction that the gospels were self-servingly written by members of the Roman Flavian dynasty, there’s nothing all that unusual or unexpected here. If everything weren’t so plainly humorless, it would be easy to mistake the film for a satirical interview package on “The Daily Show.” The crux of the argument: Since Christianity has been used to justify wars (cue gratuitous image of former President George W. Bush) and refute science, it’s important to understand its fictional foundations. The allegation needs a better advocate than this ...


http://variety.com/2012/film/reviews/caesar-s-messiah-the-roman-conspiracy-to-invent-jesus-1117948485/

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Response to moobu2 (Original post)

Fri Apr 26, 2013, 10:41 PM

11. Woo War II!

 

In which one set of believers in tradional woo square off against an upstart revisionist woo. "Your woo is bullshit and made up nonsense" the traditionalists proclaim. "Your woo is bullshit and made up nonsense" respond the upstarts.

woo vs woo. Woo War II. Who will be the wooner?

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #11)

Fri Apr 26, 2013, 10:50 PM

12. "Jesus is not a historical figure"

 

I can't wait for you to pick a side.

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Response to rug (Reply #12)

Fri Apr 26, 2013, 10:55 PM

13. Oh the traditionalists will win hands down.

 

After all they have had about 1700 years of practice defending their woo.

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