So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.

[moobu2]

That text is from Joshua in the King James Bible. Here's the context.

12Then spake Joshua to the LORD in the day when the LORD delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; and thou, Moon, in the valley of Ajalon.

13And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.

14And there was no day like that before it or after it, that the LORD hearkened unto the voice of a man: for the LORD fought for Israel.

15And Joshua returned, and all Israel with him, unto the camp to Gilgal.

This Bible story is an allegory about having to add a day to the calendar ever so often to account for the fact that the solar year didn't divide equally into 365 days. Every solar year has roughly 365 24 hour days with about 6 hours left over. In order to prevent calendar drift, we add a day every 4 years and we call it a leap year. The writers of the Bible just invented a story (an allegory) adding some fake historical propaganda and made it look sacred when in fact there was a perfectly ordinary explanation although they didn't understand the planetary mechanics of what caused it. They had to add a day to the year to prevent calendar drift so God stopped the sun for a whole day.

In case you were wondering.

[rug]

1. Technically, any given day varies in length from 24 hours to 24 hours and 29.9 seconds.

[johnnypneumatic]

2. are you sure?

it says:
"14And there was no day like that before it or after it"
while to be effective to keep the calendar adjusted, the LORD would have to call for an extra sunny day of massacres every 4 years

[moobu2]

3. That part just means there was no day like that before it or after it

like it says. It doesn't say there never was ever another day like that. The verse just says "there was no day like that before it or after it" meaning it was a day that was added that didn't exist before just like a leap year day.

[moobu2]

6. Oh, and no I'm not sure that the story

was an allegory about an added day to correct a calendar glitch. It's just a theory I'm thinking makes more sense for the story. I wasn't there obviously but one thing I am sure about is the Sun and the moon didn't stop for 24 hours for any reason whatsoever.

[trotsky]

4. That's a very creative interpretation. n/t

[moobu2]

8. I first read about the theory in

a book titled Oedipus Judaicus written by Sir William Drummond in 1811. He initially only printed enough of the book to give his colleagues and friends because he said he was afraid of Christian backlash (wonder why? not really). Later published for the general public in 1866. The theory though might be older than that I'm not sure. I know there were questions about the Bible and the similarity to other local Gods and Astrology from the beginning though. The Book is available online.
http://books.google.com/books?id=65oHAAAAQAAJ&pg=PP13&lpg=PP13&dq=n+templo+Egypti+Memphis,+

[LiberalAndProud]

5. I believe Joshua was Hebrew.

An extra month, Adar I, is added after the month of Shevat and before the month of Adar in a leap year. The month is also known as Adar Rishon or Adar Alef. According to Jewish tradition, Adar is a lucky and happy month. A leap year is referred to in Hebrew as Shanah Me'uberet, or a pregnant year. A Jewish leap year occurs 7 times in a 19-year cycle. The 3rd, 6th, 8th, 11th, 14th, 17th, and 19th years are leap years in this cycle.
http://www.timeanddate.com/date/jewish-leap-year.html

[moobu2]

7. Well, I think the people who wrote this Joshua story probably

borrowed the calendar system from Egypt like other Old Testament stories - the Adam and Eve story and the Cain and Able story for instance. The Bible even says Jehoshua (Joshua) was born in Egypt prior to the Exodus.
Joshua probably wasn't a real person but more likely a personification of one of the 12 signs we know as the Zodiac. He was said to be one of the 12 spies Moses sent to the land of Canaan. Here's where the Bible mentions this part.

Numbers 13:2 From the King James Bible

And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 2 Send thou men, that they may search the land of Canaan, which I give unto the children of Israel: of every tribe of their fathers shall ye send a man, every one a ruler among them. 3 And Moses by the commandment of the LORD sent them from the wilderness of Paran: all those men were heads of the children of Israel. 4 And these were their names: of the tribe of Reuben, Shammua the son of Zaccur. 5 Of the tribe of Simeon, Shaphat the son of Hori. 6 Of the tribe of Judah, Caleb the son of Jephunneh. 7 Of the tribe of Issachar, Igal the son of Joseph. 8 Of the tribe of Ephraim, Oshea the son of Nun. 9 Of the tribe of Benjamin, Palti the son of Raphu. 10 Of the tribe of Zebulun, Gaddiel the son of Sodi. 11 Of the tribe of Joseph, namely, of the tribe of Manasseh, Gaddi the son of Susi. 12 Of the tribe of Dan, Ammiel the son of Gemalli. 13Of the tribe of Asher, Sethur the son of Michael. 14 Of the tribe of Naphtali, Nahbi the son of Vophsi. 15Of the tribe of Gad, Geuel the son of Machi. 16 These are the names of the men which Moses sent to spy out the land. And Moses called Oshea the son of Nun Jehoshua (Joshua).

It's basically an allegory based on astrology like Hercules and the 12 labors was or Jesus and the 12 disciples was and so forth. Any time you see the number 12 used in a Bible story it's likely just a made up story not based on reality but the Zodiac.

[struggle4progress]

9. The ancient Egyptian calendar didn't have a leap day, which was introduced by the Julian reform

[moobu2]

10. The 365.25 day a year problem didn't first appear with Julius Caesar.

And evidently there were a lot calenders with schemes to account for God's huge design blunder dating back to ancient times and beyond. That's what this Biblical allegory is expressing. They have their God just stop the Sun and Moon and there you have an extra day to explain his horrendous error in mathematics. Evidently God hadn't created the calculator yet.

[okasha]

11. Owch.

Keep digging. Pull it in after you.

[struggle4progress]

12. The calendar of the ancient Hebrews was lunar-solar. If you compute

the continued fraction expansion of the length of the solar year to the length of the lunar month, you will obtain something like

365.2422/29.5306 = (12; 2, 1, 2, 1, 1, 16 ...)

Terminating this continued fraction expansion immediately before the first large denominator yields the approximation

(12; 2, 1, 2, 1, 1) = 235/19

which is the so-called Metonic cycle: 19 solar years is very nearly 235 lunations

This was known to the ancient Greeks, who apparently learned it from the Babylonians; presumably the ancient Hebrews also learned it there during their Babylonian period

The ratio 235/19 indicates a bit more than 12 lunations per solar year: over 19 years, the excess is almost exactly 235 - 12*19 = 7 lunations. The ancient Hebrew calendar correspondingly intercalates 7 extra months during every nineteen years to remedy this lunar-solar discrepancy

Your astronomical interpretation therefore does not accord with the cultural and historical data: the ancient Hebrew calendar does not arise from Egyptian influences but from Babylonian influences, and it did not seek to address the fact that the solar year does not correspond to a whole number of days but rather sought to address the fact that the solar year does not correspond to a whole number of lunations

[Warren Stupidity]

14. you just got totally pwned and are clueless.

[Thats my opinion]

13. This is a legend--as story with no historic value.

The story, like most ancient stories, was repeated to make a point which has nothing do with its historicity. That is what stories are for.

Do just bit of honest Biblical research.
That would not be as much fun, but it would at least be honest.

[okasha]

15. I think it's a bit more than a stand-alone legend.

With the story of the Exodus, the book of Joshua comprises one of two national foundation epics found in the Hebrew Bible. (The other is the story of David and Solomon and the establishment of the united kingdom.) I believe both epics were deliberately created by a literate group of priests and/or scribes to provide the Jewish kingdom with something its contemporary neighbors and trading partners all had--a kind of literary/mythical keeping up with the Joneses. Both have heroes of unknown and/or lowly origin who battle monsters (Pharaoh, Goliath) in order to preserve their people. Both have the requisite involvement and interventions of the heroes' tutelary deities. Both feature military superheroes. There are other similarities, but those are the salient ones.

[moobu2]

17. That's all it is.

It's all made up propaganda from borrowed bits and pieces of stories stolen from surrounding cultures they came in contact with, cultures who we know based their religious mythology on astrological allegory.

[okasha]

21. I suggest you follow TMO' s recommendation

and do some honest research. You've already had your own propaganda shot down once in this thread. I'm sure someone will accommodate you again if you insist.

[Thats my opinion]

18. Correct,

and both of these stories were developed long after the "history" the claim to detail. They are about nationalism, not even about religion. "My god is stronger than your god, and he loves my people best.."

[moobu2]

19. Yeah, but how do you determine which stories

"were developed long after the "history" and which ones were "about Nationalism" and "not even about religion"? or whatever. Is there some kind of guide to that that I missed somewhere?

[Act_of_Reparation]

23. Keep the parts you like while ignoring, disregarding or rationalizing the parts you don't

That seems to be the consensus, at any rate.

[Thats my opinion]

27. It is called "research." The same kind of digging any good scientist would do.

There is language study, literary criticism, scholarly historic study, archeology, ways to date items--- on and on and on.

You have missed a great deal of honest investigation.

[Act_of_Reparation]

24. Did Jesus rise from the dead?

Or is that another story developed long after the "history" the Gospels claim to detail?

This is what, I believe, the OP is getting at.

[struggle4progress]

28. Well, that leads to a rather stale conversation, doesn't it? I mean, it is a conversation

that rumbles with noisy predictability down rather well-worn ruts, producing remarkably little insight into human affairs, howsoever much self-righteousness might accompany it

[Act_of_Reparation]

29. That's a matter of perspective

The excruciating mental acrobatics some people perform to reconcile their political views with their need to believe in a higher power is, frankly, very insightful where human affairs are concerned.

Case in point...

[moobu2]

16. What exactly are you claiming is a legend with no historical value?

I'm not completely clear and you didn't say. Thanks.

[cleanhippie]

25. For all your spew about how ugly athesists are here, you constantly denigrate others as dishonest

You continually trot out the accusation that those who disagree with you are not being "honest." You just did that again in your last post..

Do just bit of honest Biblical research.
That would not be as much fun, but it would at least be honest.

The last line is a personal attack and is completely unwarranted and unnecessary.

Be the change you want to see, Charles, or at least have the decency to stop telling others that acting like you do is wrong. Hypocrisy may be your strong suit, but it's ill-fitting.

[moobu2]

20. In the Hebrew calender in every 224 years 1 day would need accounting for measured against

a solar year system and 1 day in about every 231 years measured against the Georgian Calender.

Because of the roughly eleven-day difference between twelve lunar months and one solar year, the length of the Hebrew calendar year varies in the repeating 19-year Metonic cycle of 235 lunar months, with the intercalary month added according to defined rules every two or three years, for a total of 7 times per 19 years. The Hebrew calendar year is longer by about 6 minutes and 25+25/57 seconds than the current mean solar year, so that every 224 years, the Hebrew calendar will fall a day behind the current mean solar year; and about every 231 years it will fall a day behind the Gregorian calendar year.

And yes the Julian Calender standardized the system in the west but the system was not invented when that occurred. There are written references to the 365 day system, where 1 day would be added every 4 years, 100's of years before the Julian Calendar was named. They didn't invent the system, they just used it to standardize the Empire to make everything function better.

Anyway, all calenders drift if not corrected by adding a day to the system every now and again. It's no big deal. I mean It's not like there's actually a God stopping the Sun and Moon and adding days where there wasn't one or anything.

[okasha]

22. I don't think anyone is going to take you seriously

on the subject of calendars until you figure out which Julius the reform is named for.

[Phillip McCleod]

26. lotsa oovy-groovy and woo-woo around these parts lately..

..or is it always like this?

[moobu2]

30. The thing is,

It doesn't matter what the name of the calender is, picking on that idea is just an irrelevant detraction. The bigger issue is this - every calender ever thought up by mankind based on celestial objects (the Sun, Moon a Star or a Constellation) drifts over time. It has to do with the slightly irregular orbit of the Earth around the Sun and the Earths wobble and other factors. The first calender some guy scratched out on a bone in some dark cave somewhere drifted, and so does the one we use today. Matter of fact, in 2016 we will add a day to February and consequently add a new day to that year in order to correct the calender drift. We deal with calender drift in the same manor earlier civilizations dealt with it - we add a day. The concept is called Intercalation and isn't new at all. We call our system a leap day/year. We're adding a day just like the Bible says God added a day. I mean, if you stop the Sun and the Moon for an entire day, like it says God did in the Bible, the consequences of that action would be that you add an entire day to the calender. The story didn't say God stopped the Sun and the Moon for 1 1/2 days, 2 days, 6 day's or 42 1/4 hours. The priests had God essentially add a day to the calender. Nothing weird about that, is there? no. we do the same thing today. And the writers of this story knew very well the importance of what they were saying. They were superstitious and ignorant but they weren't stupid. And calenders were a very serious matter and they didn't just tinker with them at will.

Wikipedia and other sources say "In 238 BCE, the Ptolemaic rulers decreed that every 4th year should be 366 days long rather than 365". The farmers didn't like the idea much probably because they were just so used to another system but the rulers wanted it because they saw the system as more efficient. But regardless, we can see the leap year idea (adding a day) was something being talked about hundreds of years before The Common Era and probably much earlier than that still.

That's pretty simple to understand.

The old Testament Bible story that contains what I'm talking about was just made up propaganda, obviously yes. God didn't actually stop the Sun and Moon right? Right. But the story was not just made up out of thin air for no reason whatsoever. The story itself is a vitally important part of the alleged covenant God made with his chosen people. It was propaganda with a very serious real purpose. It wasn't just a made up story simply to claim my God is bigger than your God or anything like that at all. It's a very very important well thought out story with a very real important purpose.

The priests didn't have to add the part about God stopping the Sun and Moon either but they did. They could have had God call up a huge fire tornado and have it suck Israels enemies down into the earth, or anything else they could imagine. They had God stop the Sun and Moon and add an entire day and that part had a real purpose as well. It's just a small clue in the mountain of other clues that the Bible is just a collection of stories (allegories) that were based upon astrology, the caleder and other celestial events like planetary alignments and the like. That's all it is. It's no biggy.


There's some really nice photo's of Jesus walking on water in the video below. See if you can spot him. Here's a hint.

(John 8:12) Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.