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DonViejo

(60,536 posts)
Mon Apr 15, 2013, 12:27 PM Apr 2013

Liberal Love Affair with Francis Over?

Pope Francis Supports Crackdown on US Nuns

VATICAN CITY (AP) — The Vatican said Monday that Pope Francis supports the Holy See’s crackdown on the largest umbrella group of U.S. nuns, dimming hopes that a Jesuit pope whose emphasis on the poor mirrored the nuns’ own social outreach would take a different approach than his predecessor.

The Vatican last year imposed an overhaul of the Leadership Conference of Women Religious after determining the sisters took positions that undermined Catholic teaching on the priesthood and homosexuality while promoting “radical feminist themes incompatible with the Catholic faith.” Investigators praised the nuns’ humanitarian work, but accused them of ignoring critical issues, including fighting abortion.

On Monday, the heads of the conference met with the prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Archbishop Gerhard Mueller, who is in charge of the crackdown. It was their first meeting since Mueller was appointed in July.

In a statement, Mueller’s office said he told the sisters that he had discussed the matter recently with Francis and that the pope had “reaffirmed the findings of the assessment and the program of reform.”

The conference, for its part, said the talks were “open and frank,” and noted that Mueller had informed them of Francis’ decision.

more:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/pope-francis-supports-crackdown-on-us-nuns.php?ref=fpblg
62 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Liberal Love Affair with Francis Over? (Original Post) DonViejo Apr 2013 OP
Qu'elle surprise. Arugula Latte Apr 2013 #1
Disappointing, to put it mildly. cbayer Apr 2013 #2
Don't worry skepticscott Apr 2013 #21
Please leave me alone. Thanks. cbayer Apr 2013 #22
I'll say this only once skepticscott Apr 2013 #23
But she said please! cleanhippie Apr 2013 #24
In that case, allow me to say that was a splendid piece of assholery. rug Apr 2013 #34
Please, please skepticscott Apr 2013 #35
Says a lot that you couldn't get a jury to hide rug's post. Robb Apr 2013 #36
Oh, I didn't expect to skepticscott Apr 2013 #37
That's funny. I'm an atheist, but no one's ever called me an asshole for it. Robb Apr 2013 #38
Yes, of course skepticscott Apr 2013 #40
Well, clearly it means a great deal to you. Robb Apr 2013 #42
skeptic's or cbayers? Goblinmonger Apr 2013 #39
Consider the source skepticscott Apr 2013 #41
Asking another person to stop stalking, harassing or bullying you is not telling them to STFU. cbayer Apr 2013 #44
Put them on ignore. Goblinmonger Apr 2013 #45
Oh please. No one is stalking, harassing, or bullying you Heddi Apr 2013 #49
You have the right to request it skepticscott Apr 2013 #58
Uh, no, I don't. rug Apr 2013 #48
Says the poster skepticscott Apr 2013 #57
I'm so mean to you scottie. rug Apr 2013 #59
Leave me alone, please. Second request. cbayer Apr 2013 #43
What's wrong with the tools DU has given us? trotsky Apr 2013 #46
I am requesting that you leave me alone as well. I have the right to participate here cbayer Apr 2013 #47
YOU ARE NOT BEING HARASSED, STALKED, OR BULLIED Heddi Apr 2013 #50
No one is questioning your right to participate. That would be a straw man you just attacked. trotsky Apr 2013 #53
I am again requesting that you leave me alone. cbayer Apr 2013 #54
And I am again requesting that you stop trying to bully others into silence. trotsky Apr 2013 #55
That's a neat tactic. She asked you to leave her alone and you accuse her of bullying you. rug Apr 2013 #56
How's that working for you, huh? 2ndAmForComputers Apr 2013 #60
You're delusional if you expected anything less. ForgoTheConsequence Apr 2013 #3
If you're directing your comment at me... DonViejo Apr 2013 #5
I'm not referring to you. ForgoTheConsequence Apr 2013 #7
Who's that? cbayer Apr 2013 #10
Oh yes, WHO could it be? cleanhippie Apr 2013 #25
Oh you can not blame some of us for trying to be hopeful. hrmjustin Apr 2013 #27
I have no idea what you are talking about? cleanhippie Apr 2013 #28
Yes I was talking about the pope and the fact many of us were thinking he might be different. hrmjustin Apr 2013 #29
I'm shocked, shocked I tell you. Who could have anticipated that a Warren Stupidity Apr 2013 #4
I can't imagine how anyone could have seen that coming. trotsky Apr 2013 #14
Your winnings, sir! backscatter712 Apr 2013 #52
What liberal love affair? Tempest Apr 2013 #6
I know several liberal Catholics... DonViejo Apr 2013 #11
Must mean the Pope Pravda Peddlers. 2ndAmForComputers Apr 2013 #61
Liberal love affair? Really? Starboard Tack Apr 2013 #8
So now we're pretending DU wasn't awash with adulation and optimism when Francis took the throne? Act_of_Reparation Apr 2013 #16
Optimism but not adulation, imo. cbayer Apr 2013 #17
Dunno! I sure as hell missed it. Starboard Tack Apr 2013 #18
No, you didn't miss it, you ignored it. cleanhippie Apr 2013 #26
you really are tiresome. kwassa Apr 2013 #30
i don't see 'evangelical' at all. just 'vocal' Phillip McCleod Apr 2013 #31
Nah, you are just tired. Tired of being called out on your BS again and again and again... cleanhippie Apr 2013 #33
Just sad! hrmjustin Apr 2013 #9
I don't understand this, he was and is well known as a conservative Jesuit... Humanist_Activist Apr 2013 #15
Sounds like a standoff - pinto Apr 2013 #12
Shall we start calling him Pope Psycho? backscatter712 Apr 2013 #13
"Today (Monday) the Superiors of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (CDF) struggle4progress Apr 2013 #19
Pope Francis reaffirms critique of LCWR, plan for reform struggle4progress Apr 2013 #20
i hope so.. Phillip McCleod Apr 2013 #32
It confirmed my appraisal of him. backscatter712 Apr 2013 #51
Pope Francis is in a position comparable to Mittens' position in the last election. He has to keep dimbear Apr 2013 #62
 

skepticscott

(13,029 posts)
21. Don't worry
Mon Apr 15, 2013, 09:57 PM
Apr 2013

I'm sure another coach tour will fix everything. After all, the Vatican ignores these mighty nuns "at their peril", if I recall your words.

 

skepticscott

(13,029 posts)
23. I'll say this only once
Mon Apr 15, 2013, 10:19 PM
Apr 2013

So pay close attention. This is not your safe haven. It is not your private echo chamber. You do not get to decide with a wave of your hand who you will allow to comment on or criticize your posts in an open discussion forum. I know you'd like to stifle all judgement or criticism of what you post here, and I know you've tried to in every way you can think of, but that's not how this place works. Cope.

You have three choices. You can stay in Interfaith. You can stop posting. You can put me on ignore. Notice that having me never respond to one of your posts again is not among them. If you choose to post publicly in open forums, you implicitly accept comment and criticism of those posts that is within site and group rules. From anyone.

And please, don't waste your time or mine repeating your request. It will be ignored, and I will continue to feel free to respond as I see fit.

Robb

(39,665 posts)
36. Says a lot that you couldn't get a jury to hide rug's post.
Tue Apr 16, 2013, 11:20 AM
Apr 2013

Not for nothing, but this might be a moment for you better spent in quiet self-reflection.

 

skepticscott

(13,029 posts)
37. Oh, I didn't expect to
Tue Apr 16, 2013, 11:36 AM
Apr 2013

I've seen how juries here think, and I know they heartily approve of calling atheist "assholes" But I figured, what the hell?

And if I'm supposed to reflect on asserting my right to respond to other people's posts as I see fit, and not to be stifled by someone who indulges their right to post freely anything they choose, but not other people's right to criticize them, it's been done.

You have a nice day.

Robb

(39,665 posts)
38. That's funny. I'm an atheist, but no one's ever called me an asshole for it.
Tue Apr 16, 2013, 11:40 AM
Apr 2013

Again, you ought to think on that.

 

skepticscott

(13,029 posts)
40. Yes, of course
Tue Apr 16, 2013, 11:55 AM
Apr 2013

The people on this board who call atheists "assholes" just can't help themselves, can they? This is all the fault of the people being called "assholes", isn't it?

It may be time for YOU to reflect a little. Or to thank God that you're not like other atheists.

 

Goblinmonger

(22,340 posts)
39. skeptic's or cbayers?
Tue Apr 16, 2013, 11:47 AM
Apr 2013

You don't think skeptic is right? Should cbayer be immune from criticism in Religion? Seriously.

I get it. skeptic can be caustic and isn't everyone's cup of tea. But when I read that response to cbayer, I thought it was very level headed and respectful in tone given that it was in response to "shut up and don't post to what I say in an open forum."

But I'm asshole, too, I guess. So there's that.

 

skepticscott

(13,029 posts)
41. Consider the source
Tue Apr 16, 2013, 11:59 AM
Apr 2013

Which of us do you think he was flinging the term "assholery" at?

As far as the rest, I wouldn't expect a coherent answer. He's already reached his depths.

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
44. Asking another person to stop stalking, harassing or bullying you is not telling them to STFU.
Tue Apr 16, 2013, 12:34 PM
Apr 2013

In any public forum, a person has the right to request that someone leave them alone.

 

Goblinmonger

(22,340 posts)
45. Put them on ignore.
Tue Apr 16, 2013, 12:42 PM
Apr 2013

That's the option you have. Then you never need to read a thing from them.

This is an open forum. You post in it, people have the right to respond to you. Just because he responded with what you previously said about what would happen if the RCC squashed those nuns does NOT rise to stalking, harassing, or bullying. You were wrong about what was going to happen. You were wrong about the approach this Pope would take. We are all wrong many times in our lives.

Heddi

(18,312 posts)
49. Oh please. No one is stalking, harassing, or bullying you
Tue Apr 16, 2013, 01:30 PM
Apr 2013

You make a post in a public forum and people will respond to you. It's called "responding to you," not stalking, harassing, or bullying. I know you consider anyone who doesn't agree with your opinion or your worldview to be "stalking, harassing, or bullying" you, but it's not the case.

You don't want someone responding to your posts, you have a few options:
1) don't make posts on a public messageboard where others are free to respond to your posts
2) put the people that you don't want responding to your posts on ignore
3) choose option 1
4) choose option 2

This is not your private forum. This is a public forum open to all members of DU who have posting privileges. You are the only person able to control who does and doesn't respond to you...and if you see those responses or not. The onus is on you, and it's rather rude to demand that others not respond to your posts because you don't like what they have to say.

 

skepticscott

(13,029 posts)
58. You have the right to request it
Tue Apr 16, 2013, 04:01 PM
Apr 2013

But you don't have the right to have that request fulfilled. Not when "leave me alone" means "never challenge, criticize or respond in any way to anything I post, ever, ever again".

You don't have that right. No matter how much you play the victim card here, you don't.

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
48. Uh, no, I don't.
Tue Apr 16, 2013, 01:26 PM
Apr 2013

There's a huge difference between criticism and being caustic and rank personal attacks.

It's even more obnoxious when it's draped in self-righteousness.

 

skepticscott

(13,029 posts)
57. Says the poster
Tue Apr 16, 2013, 03:54 PM
Apr 2013

Who's never been caustic or never made personal attacks..says the champion of passive-aggressive snark.

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
46. What's wrong with the tools DU has given us?
Tue Apr 16, 2013, 12:48 PM
Apr 2013

If you don't want to interact with someone, use the Ignore feature. You will never see their posts again.

If you believe their behavior is out of line or against the rules, use the Alert feature. If a jury agrees, the post will be hidden and that person won't be able to reply to you again in the thread.

It doesn't seem appropriate to act like you get your own special third way to silence viewpoints you don't want to hear.

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
47. I am requesting that you leave me alone as well. I have the right to participate here
Tue Apr 16, 2013, 12:59 PM
Apr 2013

without being harassed, stalked or bullied. It's a request. You can choose to ignore it if you wish.

Heddi

(18,312 posts)
50. YOU ARE NOT BEING HARASSED, STALKED, OR BULLIED
Tue Apr 16, 2013, 01:35 PM
Apr 2013

Your posts are being responded to by other posters who have the same rights to type messages and responses on this message board as you do.

That's not stalking. It's not bullying. It's not harassing,.

If you don't want people to respond to your posts you can either
1) not make posts
2) not see the responses by putting the people who you incorrectly believe are stalking, bullying, or harassing you on ignore.

Those are your options.

You truly dilute the true meaning of the words "harass", "stalk", and "bully" when you use them to refer to postings that disagree with you. Or that challenge you. Or that respond to you.

You are not being bullied. You are being challenged. You are being responded to. You are being disagreed with.

I urge you to speak with victims of true harassment, bullying, and stalking (I am one, and would love to show you the miles of paper trail and red tape and restraining orders, and black and blue marks and physical and psychological scars from it) and let them tell you that you're full of baloney if you think that having someone disagree with you on a message board is stalking, harassing, or bullying

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
53. No one is questioning your right to participate. That would be a straw man you just attacked.
Tue Apr 16, 2013, 02:06 PM
Apr 2013

But one could ask why you don't think others have the right to participate here, by simply asking you questions.

I asked why the tools DU has provided us are insufficient for your needs. I didn't threaten, harass, or bully you. I asked you a question. I understand what you're trying to do; it's quite transparent. I don't know if this method to alert on and silence people will work, but I do know the behavior is very dishonest, childish, and passive-aggressive. I think you can be better than that.

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
55. And I am again requesting that you stop trying to bully others into silence.
Tue Apr 16, 2013, 02:42 PM
Apr 2013

I truly believe that you can be better than this. Please demonstrate that my belief is justified.

ForgoTheConsequence

(4,846 posts)
3. You're delusional if you expected anything less.
Mon Apr 15, 2013, 12:43 PM
Apr 2013

And I'm not surprised in the slightest that the boards resident Papal News Network reporter didn't post this under late breaking news, I guess it doesn't fit their agenda.

DonViejo

(60,536 posts)
5. If you're directing your comment at me...
Mon Apr 15, 2013, 01:00 PM
Apr 2013

you should be aware that I have entered two OP's regarding the Pope, this being the second. And neither were entered as LBN.

ForgoTheConsequence

(4,846 posts)
7. I'm not referring to you.
Mon Apr 15, 2013, 01:03 PM
Apr 2013

I'm referring to someone who spams the board with nothing but positive news about this Pope.

 

hrmjustin

(71,265 posts)
27. Oh you can not blame some of us for trying to be hopeful.
Mon Apr 15, 2013, 10:53 PM
Apr 2013

But I guess the new boss is the same as the old.

 

hrmjustin

(71,265 posts)
29. Yes I was talking about the pope and the fact many of us were thinking he might be different.
Mon Apr 15, 2013, 11:00 PM
Apr 2013

And the posts about a certain someone posting positive stuff made me think that we had high hopes. I am sorry if I was not clear on that Cleanhippie.

 

Warren Stupidity

(48,181 posts)
4. I'm shocked, shocked I tell you. Who could have anticipated that a
Mon Apr 15, 2013, 12:57 PM
Apr 2013

hugely conservative cardinal elevated to the papacy would continue the hugely conservative policies of his dubious predecessor?

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
14. I can't imagine how anyone could have seen that coming.
Mon Apr 15, 2013, 04:43 PM
Apr 2013

Except for all of us mean cynical atheists who predicted exactly that, of course.

Tempest

(14,591 posts)
6. What liberal love affair?
Mon Apr 15, 2013, 01:02 PM
Apr 2013

Neither myself or any of my liberal friends give a rat's ass about what that organization does.

DonViejo

(60,536 posts)
11. I know several liberal Catholics...
Mon Apr 15, 2013, 01:37 PM
Apr 2013

that we're hoping this Pope would somehow be different. I sent them copies of this article but haven't heard back from them yet.

Act_of_Reparation

(9,116 posts)
16. So now we're pretending DU wasn't awash with adulation and optimism when Francis took the throne?
Mon Apr 15, 2013, 07:16 PM
Apr 2013

I must have missed a memo.

kwassa

(23,340 posts)
30. you really are tiresome.
Mon Apr 15, 2013, 11:03 PM
Apr 2013

If ever there was an evangelical atheist, it would look a great deal like you.

 

Phillip McCleod

(1,837 posts)
31. i don't see 'evangelical' at all. just 'vocal'
Tue Apr 16, 2013, 09:16 AM
Apr 2013

didn't we have this conversation already? i thought atheists were 'militant' when loud. i guess that didn't stick so might as well grasp at some other straw?

in any case it's a matter of opinion and p.o.v. your evangelical atheist is my vocal nonbeliever.

cleanhippie

(19,705 posts)
33. Nah, you are just tired. Tired of being called out on your BS again and again and again...
Tue Apr 16, 2013, 09:38 AM
Apr 2013

Last edited Tue Apr 16, 2013, 10:27 AM - Edit history (1)

I know it must be frustrating, so just stop it.

And thanks for demonstrating yet again, that all you have left are personal attacks and name calling. I wear it as a badge of honor coming from the likes of you.

Have a nice day!


On edit: I see that you started a whole other OP dedicated to calling me and other vocal non-believers disparaging names. Thats all you have left, isn't it? How sad and pathetic. I'll pray for you.

 

Humanist_Activist

(7,670 posts)
15. I don't understand this, he was and is well known as a conservative Jesuit...
Mon Apr 15, 2013, 04:54 PM
Apr 2013

a homophobic misogynist, were you expecting him to magically change his positions since election into office?

pinto

(106,886 posts)
12. Sounds like a standoff -
Mon Apr 15, 2013, 02:19 PM
Apr 2013
The Leadership Conference has argued that the Vatican reached “flawed” conclusions based on “unsubstantiated accusations.” The group’s officers have said they would participate in discussions with (Seattle Archbishop Peter) Sartain “as long as possible” but vowed they would not compromise their group’s mission.

struggle4progress

(118,034 posts)
19. "Today (Monday) the Superiors of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (CDF)
Mon Apr 15, 2013, 09:47 PM
Apr 2013

with the Presidency of the Leadership Conference of Women Religious (LCWR) of the United States of America ... "As this was his first opportunity to meet with the Presidency of the LCWR, the Prefect of the Congregation, Archbishop Gerhard Ludwig Muller, expressed his gratitude for the great contribution of women Religious to the Church in the United States as seen particularly in the many schools, hospitals, and institutions of support for the poor which have been founded and staffed by Religious over the years. The Prefect then highlighted the teaching of the Second Vatican Council regarding the important mission of Religious to promote a vision of ecclesial communion founded on faith in Jesus Christ and the teachings of the Church as faithfully taught through the ages under the guidance of the Magisterium ...

http://www.indcatholicnews.com/news.php?viewStory=22339

struggle4progress

(118,034 posts)
20. Pope Francis reaffirms critique of LCWR, plan for reform
Mon Apr 15, 2013, 09:50 PM
Apr 2013

by Joshua J. McElwee | Apr. 15, 2013

... While the doctrinal congregation may be taking a hard-line approach, the Vatican congregation responsible for overseeing the work of religious orders around the world recently has taken a more sensitive tack, even indicating it sought dialogue with the sisters.

The April 6 appointment of Franciscan Fr. José Rodríguez Carballo as the second-in-command of the Congregation for Institutes of Consecrated Life and Societies of Apostolic Life, Pope Francis' first appointment to the Vatican bureaucracy, seemed to approve the softer approach: Rodríguez's colleagues said he is someone who seeks collaboration rather than conflict ...

http://ncronline.org/news/vatican/pope-francis-reaffirms-lcwr-critique-plan-reform

 

Phillip McCleod

(1,837 posts)
32. i hope so..
Tue Apr 16, 2013, 09:25 AM
Apr 2013

..the cognitive dissonance is stifling.

though i expect the love affair to continue in liberal catholic strongholds.. here, at least the catholic community loved the *old* pope. the dissonance just increased in intensity, but it was not new.

backscatter712

(26,355 posts)
51. It confirmed my appraisal of him.
Tue Apr 16, 2013, 01:44 PM
Apr 2013

He does great photo-ops, but his policies are the same old misogynistic, homophobic, authoritarian RCC shit.

dimbear

(6,271 posts)
62. Pope Francis is in a position comparable to Mittens' position in the last election. He has to keep
Tue Apr 16, 2013, 07:52 PM
Apr 2013

the base happy, and that means ticking off relatively unimportant small groups, in this case, the liberals.

The important problem for the RCC is its schism (actually schisms, but mainly the one) on the right--that's what they really care about, taking care of that schism on the right (and guarding against more of the same) will determine their actions for the immediate future.








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