People who believe in the concept of Satan, what do they actually think it is?

[raccoon]

Is it a malevolent, omniscient being that is constantly at work trying to make people do bad things?

or is it a metaphor for all the evil in the world, similar to how Santa Claus is a metaphor for the spirit of giving?

At my local grocery store, I see a book titled, "Satan, you can't have my children."...

[Sedona]

1. My fundy sister says

Satan the reason my ex had a mid life crisis and suddenly ran away from home like a five year old.

[hedgehog]

2. I don't really know - but it occurred to me that if you believe in angels,

you should be open to the possibility of fallen angels. There are people who are a bad influence on others; why not other beings? I think the image of a horned demon with pitch fork prevents us from considering other possibilities. The Screwtape Letters offers another view.

[brooklynite]

34. And God would allow this because...

Seems to me that Satan is doing God's bidding, or God doesn't care about what he does, in which case why would be care about what you do?

[hedgehog]

42. God gave humans free will, why not angels?

[alsame]

3. My fundy relatives think Satan is an evil spirit who can take human

form and walk among us. They believe Satan is everywhere, waiting for the chance to do evil.

Years ago, I mentioned to one of them that I watched the TV show "Lost" and she got hysterical, telling me that the devil is in TV shows that have supernatural elements and can jump out of the TV and infect my soul.

[gcomeau]

16. The scary thing is...

...that what you just said was on April 2nd and not April 1st.

[alsame]

18. Yep, it's true. nt

[lunasun]

52. sad -and really whack

[Ron Obvious]

4. I imagine

I imagine it's a way to reconcile a benevolent, omnipotent God with the existence of evil and suffering in the lives of the believer. If they thought about it a bit more, they'd realise it doesn't absolve the omni fellow in the slightest for obvious reasons.

[cbayer]

5. I would guess that the more human-like one's concept of god, the more human-like

their concept satan will be.

I think there is good and evil in the world. Some people seem to have an excess of one over the other, but most lie somewhere in between.

"Satan, you can't have my children" could be read metaphorically. It could be about protecting your kids from real evil, like online predators.

Or it could be literal.

[Phillip McCleod]

38. so god is somewhere between human and divine..

and people behave anywhere from good to evil..
and the magazine could really be about anything.. who knows?

hm.

illuminating.

[cbayer]

43. I sense that you are mocking me here somehow, but I'm not sure how.

[rug]

6. The core of Satan is pride.

Everything else flows from that.

[cbayer]

8. What do you mean by that?

[rug]

9. Classically, it's the elevation of one's self over others.

Lucifer's first sin was pride, to do his own will over God's. Then the rest followed.

I've come to the conclusion that there really are few if any bad people. Almost every human action is good in the eyes of the person doing it. But, regardless of any objective view, the action is correct in the subjective view of the actor. That's pride in one of its many variations.

That is one of the appeals of Buddhism to me, the detachment from desire and, hence, pride.

[cbayer]

10. What about pride as it pertains to being proud of others.

Does that have the same meaning? Or is it only as it pertains to pride in oneself?

Agree that most people are good or mean to be good or are sincerely trying to be good, but I've seen some true evil in my days. But I think I understand what you are saying here about pride, in that it can keep you from objectively evaluating your own actions or the actions of others.

Some of the tenets of Buddhism have saved me at the most difficult of times, but I hadn't made a connection with pride.

[rug]

11. There is a difference.

Taking pride in an achievement is not bad at all. Achievement at the expense of others is.

I've never told my kids I want the best for them because, if that were so, every other child would have something worse than they.

Every time I say this to them they look at me stragely and back up. Oh well.

[cbayer]

12. I see the difference.

I bet your kids often look at you strangely and back up.

[edhopper]

13. The funny thing is

the God of the Bible is "all about me".
The first four commandments are just pledging fealty.
God seems to be awfully self centered throughout the Bible, both OT and NT.

[rug]

14. Well, if I was God, so would I.

I have enough trouble grasping what it is to be human.

[skepticscott]

15. You mean like

the Catholic Church's elevation of itself over all other religions, all other churches, as the One, True Church? That kind of pride? Or is that the good kind of pride?

[rug]

19. No. Clearly you don't know what elevate - or pride - means.

[skepticscott]

22. Ah, so the Catholic Church

doesn't consider itself the One and Only True Church? That'll be news to the Vatican.

And do you not think that pride and hubris had just a little teensy bit to do with the Catholic Church's feeling justified in covering up child rape for so long? Or in its dictating morality to the entire world?

Silly me..of course you don't,

[rug]

25. I know you have a propensity to try to turn the subject every thread into the Catholic Church,

not to mention child rape, but pay attention this time and try to discuss a topic in which you have less interest.

The concept of Satan straddles many religions, as does the concept of pride. Do you have a thought on that?

Silly me..of course you don't.

[skepticscott]

30. Just wanted to see

if you'd be intellectually honest about the faith you adore the most, and acknowledge that pride, which you characterize as the most fundamental of sins, the "core of Satan", is at the heart of what the RCC is. I could ask you about others, but since I got about as empty a response as I expected on this one, I see no reason to waste my time.

[rug]

31. Sure you did.

You're all about intellectual honesty.

[skepticscott]

35. I know that's a hard concept for you to master

but keep trying. I'm also all about ridiculing hypocrisy, which is a full time job on this board.

[rug]

36. Lol, hypocrisy police.

Yup, not a clue about pride.

[gcomeau]

17. Whereas...

...the entity that created this ongoing tragedy of errors and catastrophes while maintaining that he is supreme and perfect and none may contradict his divine plan doesn't suffer from the sin of pride *at all*... nope.

[rug]

20. You are describing something that does not exist.

[gcomeau]

21. Yes, I'm aware.

<--(atheist)

The problem is, you have to tell that to a few billion other people.

[rug]

23. I was referring to your description.

[gcomeau]

24. So was I. -eom

[Humanist_Activist]

40. So you don't believe in the God of the Bible?

I'm always puzzled by this, either you believe in that deity, or you don't, don't claim you do, then say that its all about context, when all you are really doing is trying to make that god more palatable to modern, secular, culture.

[rug]

41. I haven't seen it described here.

[Humanist_Activist]

44. Post #9 is a good summary of the God of the Bible...

If you want more descriptors, we can add genocidal, sociopathic, etc.

[rug]

45. A person who speaks in the plural really shouldn't say anything about pride or sociopathy.

[Inkfreak]

27. Interesting post. Sincerely.

Question. That detachment from desire, do you suppose that it's there but ignored? Or that you can be free from all desire at some point? I ask because when reading that last sentence, I wondered if I could be free of desires. And what type of desires? And if my desires are really all that bad? Lol. Just questions popping up in my head from your post.

[rug]

28. The Buddhism Group might be a god place to ask.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1249

I don't think we can ever be free from detachment or desires. That's probably part of the problem, we have 7 billion bundles of desire and we keep bumping into each other.

From my experience and from what I've read and heard from others, it seems we are most happy when we try to acommodate each other and fill others' desires (within reason, of course). I suppose that's why altruism is univerally recognized.

JMHO.

[kestrel91316]

7. Fundies believe that Satan is a very real physical being

and that he also can exist inside people.



I know. I totally don't get it either.

[PDJane]

26. I have a few candidates for Satan. The Koch brothers are up there.........

As is Stephen Harper......too many others to name.

[murray hill farm]

32. Well.....

we need to have someone to blame for our "evil" thoughts and actions...and personal responsibility is so cumbersome.

[Newest Reality]

33. He started out as a

scapegoat and there has been hilarity ever since. From goat to Faustian Devil in a suit. Long history of changes.

The gods of the enemies of Israel became the names for the Devil and demons as in Bal and various forms of the word.

Also, the Serpent in the OT was actually god's special prosecutor, (not enemy) as per Job.

[Apophis]

37. Satan-and by extension hell-can't exist if god is all-forgiving.

But, if hell does exist, then god isn't all-forgiving and just as unforgiving as satan. If that's the case, why call him god.

[rug]

47. Forgiveness has to be accepted.

[Apophis]

48. Haha.

Either god forgives all or he doesn't. He can't only forgive those who ask for it if he's all-forgiving.

[rug]

49. It's a two-way street.

God may well have the power to forgive all. We may well not have the power to accept it.

Haha.

[Apophis]

50. Yeah. okay.

Who are you trying to convince, me or you?

[rug]

51. Get back to me after your finals are over.

[Phillip McCleod]

39. 'paradise lost'

yes, it's dull. what great literature isn't? when mimicking or mocking biblical portent, 'dull' is how an author finds tone and metre to make the content palatable.

consider the fallen angel of milton's 'paradise lost'.. he is a sympathetic character. he is the rebel, and god is the petty tyrant.

let's just say if those were the only two choices, rebel or petty tyrant, i damned-well know which way i'd go.

PROUDLY.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

46. We already know all the cool people are in Hell.

Mark Twain, Stephen Jay Gould, Carl Sagan, Gandhi......

[Meshuga]

53. In Judaism...

"Satan" is a metaphor for a person's tendency to do something bad. The idea is that humans have a tendency of doing good and the tendency to doing bad things (as opposed to being flawed) and "satan" is a metaphor for the bad inclination.

So, in the way I was brought up, satan was nothing but a word that stood for doing bad things or (as in the word's meaning in Hebrew) for someone who is an adversary.

So, saying, "satan you can't have my children" would have no supernatural implications whatsoever. I am assuming that the article you saw had supernatural implications.