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Recursion

(56,582 posts)
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 08:07 PM Sep 2018

African American Democrats don't want to burn the party apparatus down

This is an ongoing thought I'm working with; please bear with me.

The Democratic party has no end of well-intentioned really liberal white people who want to save the party from itself. They do well among many constituencies but keep running aground on Democrats of color.

It's not about ideology: liberal policies poll as well or better among AA Democrats as they do among white Democrats. The difference seems to be that
the white "outsider" candidates have an interest in disrupting existing party institutions that African Americans absolutely do not share.

Take the recent disempowering of automatic delegates or "superdelegates". The entire Congressional Black Caucus objected to that decision. (Democrats: when the entire Congressional Black Caucus objects to something, listen). But that decision is past.

Anyways, my point is that the alleged "rift" in the Democratic party is not mostly about ideology, it's mostly about procedure. And white liberals should listen to Democrats of color on this.

24 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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African American Democrats don't want to burn the party apparatus down (Original Post) Recursion Sep 2018 OP
Recommended. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #1
That is what I'd like to understand better Recursion Sep 2018 #2
You're right that it's not about ideology. But THEY think it's about ideology. betsuni Sep 2018 #16
Disrupt institutions that AAs have fought to have input on with no intention of sharing any power.. brush Sep 2018 #6
An interesting premise. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #7
My theory is that in the last 2 generations The Polack MSgt Sep 2018 #14
A perceptive theory. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #22
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to eat for dinner marylandblue Sep 2018 #3
Very well stated. Basic LA Sep 2018 #4
the ugly truth DonCoquixote Sep 2018 #5
+1000. (nt) ehrnst Sep 2018 #10
Thank You, DonCoquixote Cha Sep 2018 #11
+1 betsuni Sep 2018 #15
++ JHan Sep 2018 #18
Damn I wish I could disagree with that Recursion Sep 2018 #21
I wish I could DonCoquixote Sep 2018 #23
This white guy agrees whole-heartedly. "Liberal" without structure and consistency and Atticus Sep 2018 #8
K&R betsuni Sep 2018 #9
Why Would They When They're The ones Holding It Up? Me. Sep 2018 #12
Correct. sheshe2 Sep 2018 #13
I think the reason they disrupt is entitlement. JHan Sep 2018 #17
K&R for visibility. lunamagica Sep 2018 #19
Kick and rec JustAnotherGen Sep 2018 #20
Needs to be discussed Chitown Kev Sep 2018 #24

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
1. Recommended.
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 08:09 PM
Sep 2018
The difference seems to be that
the white "outsider" candidates have an interest in disrupting existing party institutions that African Americans absolutely do not share.


Why is that?

betsuni

(25,384 posts)
16. You're right that it's not about ideology. But THEY think it's about ideology.
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 10:52 PM
Sep 2018

I posted this yesterday in a comment, saw it in a book from the 90s, "Culture Jamming." It could have been written in 2018. Liberals are the enemy:

"The liberal Left has a way of co-opting every worthwhile cause. ... But no longer are Lefties fighting the problem: they are the problem, and if we're going to build an effective new social movement, we're going to have to work not with them but around them. The critical issues of our time are neither Left nor Right, neither male nor female, neither black or white. The challenge for new millennium activists is to find the courage to let go of all their old orthodoxies, 'isms" and sacred cows, and to commit to 'a ruthless criticism of all that exists.' And after that, the big challenge is to bring revolutionary consciousness and contestation back into the modern world by standing up and boldly announcing to the world what Parisian rebels declared some thirty years ago: 'We will wreak the world.'"

They firmly believe that until a couple of years ago, nobody talked about universal health care, raising the minimum wage, wanting money out of politics and the wealthy to pay their fair share of taxes, bursting the college tuition bubble, no one has tried to fight against corporate power and economic inequality, etc. The Democratic Party platform was the same as the Republican except for identity issues and abortion. All inequality stems from economic insecurity. They think it's about ideology. The only hope is to burn everything down.

brush

(53,743 posts)
6. Disrupt institutions that AAs have fought to have input on with no intention of sharing any power..
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 08:28 PM
Sep 2018

gained with AAs

The Polack MSgt

(13,182 posts)
14. My theory is that in the last 2 generations
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 09:42 PM
Sep 2018

African American politicians had genuine success working to establish themselves in the Democratic Party.

AA operators had influence contacts and sponsorship...
In the Air Force we would say that they had juice.

So these politicians worked - expanded their influence and played the game as it was layed oit.

Then a dickload of progresive young white folks come on the scene and commenced to whine, bitch and moan ... Saying that the issues that bother THEM are the "CORE ISSUES" the party needs to address if they wanted any support.
...
...
Of course the "Liberal Media" helped

Their focus on the "working class" grievences that consistently ignored working class Americans of color in story after story was insulting and grating.


"

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
22. A perceptive theory.
Sat Sep 15, 2018, 04:01 PM
Sep 2018

My view, speaking only of white progressives and Sanders supporters, is that Sanders, and many of his supporters, failed to realize that racial prejudice was the foundation of the US economic system.

I am a firm believer in class based analysis when speaking of why capitalists structure things as they do, but no one should forget that racial politics is the foundation of it all.

Racism, race based politics, is an easy way to divide workers, and to convince white workers that their interests can be satisfied while treating non-white workers as less than equal.

marylandblue

(12,344 posts)
3. Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to eat for dinner
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 08:19 PM
Sep 2018

African Americans realize the weaknesses in democracy. We can't function on just more and more democracy. We need leaders who can commit to protecting minorities even when that is not the popular thing to do. Leaders the Republicans wish they had in 2016. It can happen to our party too. And if so, African Americans would be the first tonsuffer.

 

Basic LA

(2,047 posts)
4. Very well stated.
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 08:19 PM
Sep 2018

Why do people want to separate into ineffective subgroups? It only hands power to the right. The Democratic party is a coalition of the left. Lets strenghten the coalition and improve on its hard-won gains.

DonCoquixote

(13,616 posts)
5. the ugly truth
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 08:23 PM
Sep 2018

A lot of the bernie folks really wanted to abandon the race thing because they want to focus on the "class" thing that they have wanted to talk about for the past century. I read people like Ted Rall or Glenn greenwalkd as they blithely smash the concerns of POC and Women as ones that need to be abandoned, along with their token (yes I will call them that) folks like Cornell West and Big Mike. Of course, what they do not admit is that those Unions they speak of were always white men, and that a lot of unon do this day still have NO intention of letting anyone but white men into the fold, just that those guys voted for Trump.

DonCoquixote

(13,616 posts)
23. I wish I could
Sat Sep 15, 2018, 05:42 PM
Sep 2018

But sadly, I remember when people would call my dad and my family "spics" because the union saw them as a threat. Gee, you could have reached out, but No...they wanted to keep using the teamsters fund as the load to build Vegas casinos. And a lot of the people that treat Bernie like their boy are imagining when Union Labor meant white labor, and then a lotof those people who could only buy that big Florida house because of their pension all of a sudden decided they got their, screw everyone, and then voted for Trump.

As for the young firebrands, they seem like they want to skip to the social justice stage without bothering to help those who will NEVER be given a slice of any pie, regardless of how big Cenk or Jill order it baked. They still like the fact they know that they will never be the ones shot by cops, or that the bank will favor them over anyone black or brown. We know this because we are the unpaid interns getting you bastards coffee, and hearign you bitch about problems that make feeding our kids look like a vacation.

Atticus

(15,124 posts)
8. This white guy agrees whole-heartedly. "Liberal" without structure and consistency and
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 08:31 PM
Sep 2018

vision and mutual respect is what the road to hell is supposedly paved with---and little else.

sheshe2

(83,669 posts)
13. Correct.
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 09:22 PM
Sep 2018
Recursion
0. African American Democrats don't want to burn the party apparatus down


They want to build on what they fought for all the ages, not tear it all down as we have seen many white folks want. Not sure why they want to destroy what many of us have worked for all our lives. Equality for black/brown/women. Seems they are not happy unless it is built in their image alone. White and male.

Rosa sat. Kaepernick knelt. Emmitt Till beaten and died. Martin marched and he talked, he wrote, he preached.Women died for their right to vote to. Yet some just want to tear it all down. Our choices. All of us are just not that important?

Sorry no.

Thanks for the OP. It is important, Recursion.

JHan

(10,173 posts)
17. I think the reason they disrupt is entitlement.
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 10:59 PM
Sep 2018

Those who want to behave like an insurgent and dismiss "identity politics" won't ever grasp the idea of collective identities and the importance of engaging with allies who may not fully share their vision.

No coincidence that identity politics has become a hot topic when these same white liberals want to tear everything down. It was they who decided that the white working class should be at the epicenter of political calculus, ignoring that Democrats were losing whites since the 60's when the party pushed a civil rights agenda. Anything outside of WWC concerns was deemed a wedge issue, divisive or frivolous or 3rd on their priority list.

And this is problematic because identity has always been embedded in Politics, particularly American politics. When white men thoroughly dominated the political arena, "identity" often featured highly in campaigns, from anti-catholicism, projecting masculinity to contrast with an opponent's perceived homosexuality, archetypes like the "Outsider" the "dude you can have a beer with", the "Log cabin and hard cider candidate", and channeling the "silent majority" - all identity based, and crafted to resonate as such. When non-whites and women entered the arena and demanded representation, the modern idea of "Identity Politics" arose. I'd even say identity politics has become a euphemism for civil rights.

When the chosen candidate for these liberals lost, they decided that the system must have been rigged. The same system African Americans pragmatically worked through to wield influence. Worse, when their chosen candidate - Sanders- was way behind in the delegate count, demands were made that Superdelegates who supported his opponent Hillary, a stalwart who always worked her way in the party, switch their support from her, who the base clearly wanted, to him who was losing badly. This reeks of entitlement and sour grapes.

Changing the system when it doesn't suit you is the prerogative and privilege of white men, the fracas over Super Delegates is just a symptom of this. The next step will be pushing for all open primaries. Clinton won the majority of Open Primaries in 2016 but she won them in states with many black Democrats. I suppose the hope is with all open primaries, this dynamic will shift, suppressing the influence of some demographics. Yes a cynical take, but how else to take it really?

You know, it's interesting that major populist movements in the States are always connected to race somehow, and not class, because we have no concept of class in a deep way. We talk about race like those in other countries talk about class and this is because this country's wealth was generated from a racial caste system. It's why economic justice and social justice must always be intertwined, with social justice as the foundation. To see some white liberals deny this has been a revelation, and I think I'm justified to be wary of them.

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