Re: Bravenak, look how upset some folks get when a strong black woman has an opinion

[stevenleser]

Very telling.

[stonecutter357]

1. K&R

[shenmue]

2. Yes

[greatauntoftriplets]

3. That woman has an amazingly sharp mind.

I miss her presence here. K&R.

[sheshe2]

4. They have no problem when a white man calls the President a POSUCS.

We women need to know our place. Sit down and shut up.

[Jim Lane]

16. Excuse me, are we reading the same board?

I've seen post after post after post waxing indignant about that comment. A careful study might reveal that that one line has been responded to more often than everything else that Will Pitt posted, combined.

What I gather from this OP is that, whenever there is any disagreement with a statement by a black woman, the criticism arises solely because of gender and race. It is apparently not conceivable to some that such criticism might be, as it is in other instances, content-based.

That is a simplification to which I do not subscribe.

[sheshe2]

17. It is the double standard.

PS. This is the African American group that you are posting in.

[JHan]

23. uhm.

What I gather from this OP is that, whenever there is any disagreement with a statement by a black woman, the criticism arises solely because of gender and race. It is apparently not conceivable to some that such criticism might be, as it is in other instances, content-based.

wrong.

[JI7]

25. nope, many of those who attack Bravenak are those who defended Pitt and went to the site

where they allowed Hillary to be called the C word.

[still_one]

28. That is an accurate statement J17

[JustAnotherGen]

38. I don't know about same board nonsense

I do know that as a Group Host - and a quick review of your posts over the years - you generally only pop in here to disrupt.

I can't overrule a jury. I can say this - when I wake up and see messages from DU in my email box that resolve to posts at DU in this Group . . . I'm not a happy host.

And on that note - count me among the 'simpletons'.

Just simple enough to clearly state - I've no patience. Please do not come back. There's a Trash Group option for all groups. I've got quite a few on mine - the Religion groups, the men's group, politician specific groups.

Why? I can't add anything of value there.

[Jim Lane]

50. Thank you, that clarifies matters.

I was wondering about the implications of sheshe2's response. The implication seemed to be that, in the AA Group, an accusation of racism is sacrosanct and may not be controverted. For example, suppose someone says that Governor X is a racist because he hasn't appointed any blacks to his Cabinet. Suppose a post in response links to an article about to his appointment of the Transportation Commissioner, an article showing that the commissioner is black. The implication of what sheshe2 wrote is that such a response is unwelcome in the AA Group.

I was reluctant to draw that conclusion, because it didn't comport with my personal view of intellectual integrity.

Your post, however, has convinced me that my initial reaction was correct, or at least close enough to correct to make me very uneasy. The silver lining is that, as I infer from your post, at least four DUers agreed with me about what's appropriate. (There would be a different issue if I had actually called you or any other DUer a simpleton -- but I didn't. Your putting that word in quotation marks is misleading.)

Incidentally, I don't "pop in here to disrupt." I mostly read DU by surfing the Greatest page. When something there catches my eye, I respond.

Trashing the AA Group would cut me off from one source of valuable information at DU. Nevertheless, in light of your post, I will honor your request and trash the Group. At least I'll still be able to benefit from the discussions of racial justice elsewhere on the site.

[Squinch]

55. Is that what you gather, Jim? Really? Then your gathering skills need work.

Your gatherings always seem to be this same erroneous gatherage.

[radical noodle]

5. I love Bravenak!

She speaks for many.

[brush]

6. Right, some right here on DU are attacking her instead of Sarandon whe help us get trump

Un-fucking-believable.

[leftofcool]

7. I think that was to be expected here. Sarandon has a fan club here.

[WhiteTara]

8. Well, I'm not in it!

She is a shallow and fairly stupid. But she can memorize those lines!

[grantcart]

11. really? I don't follow the intramurals very carefully.

[Me.]

14. More's The Pity

[Squinch]

54. Many JPR zombies in those threads. And you know how they looooooove her.

They're probably loooooooving the chaos that is going on right now. Because, you know, that's how Suzie thinks the revolution is going to start.

She's a lot like Manson that way.

[stevenleser]

57. One has been outed most spectacularly. Read this comment

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=9660668

[Squinch]

58. Wow. They walk among us. That is really sad.

[brer cat]

9. K&R

[Bernardo de La Paz]

10. It would be a mistake to think that everyone knows her gender or skin color.

I didn't know her gender until recently.

I didn't know her skin color until this thread showed up on the Home Page.

So, certainly not as "telling" as you may think. Despite that, the general point has merit; it is just not this situation that can automatically draw the stated conclusion in the thread title.

[thesquanderer]

12. Same here, didn't know gender/color. Also I don't even know what this thread's about.

I don't understand why people post no-context responses to other threads in places other than those threads. If what you have to say is so important that it needs its own OP, at least include enough info so that people who don't live and breathe DU and read every thread have some idea what you're talking about.

But I do know Bravenak's work from past threads. We often disagreed in the primary days, but I respected her posts.

[George II]

15. Did you not read the OP? It says she's a strong black woman.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

35. Exactly. I read the OP and found out her skin color. . . . nt

[George II]

42. Hard to believe that someone who has been here for even 9 years before she registered....

....didn't know until yesterday that Bravenak is a black woman.

[sheshe2]

18. She has been a member of the AA Group for for years.

A vocal black woman. Never hid it.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

36. Posts in the AA group rarely get so many recs that they appear on the Home Page. My fault.

[JustAnotherGen]

39. that's because

the majority of us don't post at DU at the rate we used to.

[JustAnotherGen]

30. Her picture was on her Twitter profile

That's why she was called words like "Fat black bitch".

I think this is an opportune time to call Trump a Fat Orange son of a bitch. It has said a lot of racist and antagonistic things so it has it coming.

Off to to peep to 45/140.

[JI7]

31. she had her kid's pic on DU in her sig also. it's BS to claim people didn't know

if they didn't know then it means they haven't been paying attention or are new and wouldn't make the comments they do.

the fact is much of the problems started when white people started telling her they knew what was best for her and other black people and how they ddin't know any better.

it was all about race and gender.

[JustAnotherGen]

32. No arguments from me

And then after they do that . . .they try to gaslight you and say it didn't happen.

Funny - I saw a thread with posts about people "almost" driven off and all I could do was smirk and think - you people need mirrors.

And tot let it go. Those issues/complaints are soooooo early 2016.*smdh*

[Bernardo de La Paz]

40. It would be a mistake to assume a kid's skin color is the same as the parent's.

I try to avoid assumptions about gender and genetics.

I read what people write.

[JI7]

46. What she wrote was very much about being a black woman

[Bernardo de La Paz]

34. I am on DU, not Twitter. Congratulations, you are so knowledgeable & proved me incompetent :eyes:

[JustAnotherGen]

37. No I didn't

I was giving you the 'facts'. I've been a group host here for several years - and she was a frequent poster in the group. As well, I'm friends with her on Facebook.

Just the facts.

Was there anything else you wanted to say in the African American group? Anything else to show us how 'above it all' you are? I mean - kudos to you for being above it all.

It must be a burden posting here.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

41. "above it all"? When I wrote "the general point has merit" what did you not understand? (post #10)

Facts? You don't really read the posts you respond to. This is what you have to post here:

Was there anything else you wanted to say in the African American group? Anything else to show us how 'above it all' you are? I mean - kudos to you for being above it all.

It must be a burden posting here.

This is how you, the group host, treat people sympathetic to the cause.

[JustAnotherGen]

43. Please leave

You were one of the folks I received a message about this morning.

Just go.

There is no 'cause' - it's just a discussion board.

Unless you pay my bills and taxes - you are not a part of my 'personal cause'. Capice?

[LanternWaste]

45. Your narrative seems irrelevant... at best.

Your narrative seems irrelevant... at best.

Imaginative more likely.

[Squinch]

56. The ones who replied to her tweet about Sarandon with disgusting racist remarks

and threats of rape and injury to her family certainly did.

And yet there are many here who are cheering that.

Things that make you go, "hmmmmm."

[SunSeeker]

13. K & R

[Gothmog]

19. K&R

[Susan Calvin]

20. Yep.

I corresponded with her for quite a while. (Lost because I didn't remember the throwaway email for my old user name without the space, after the hack.)

She did not lash out for no reason (although she had a temper, like all of us to one degree or another), and believed in facts.

That's what I saw here, anyway.

Hey, brave!

[Tarheel_Dem]

21. Sadly, this has always been the case. Even more sad is that we haven't come as far as we thought.

[murielm99]

22. K&R

[raven mad]

24. Brave is one of the best people I've ever been privileged to know.

Says the old white chick from Fairbanks. I miss her.

[JI7]

26. they react the same way as Trump does when a POC or women criticizes him in any way

[lunamagica]

27. K&R.

[murielm99]

29. The reactions to posts about Bravenak

in some of the long threads here are very telling, as you said. Her enemies are really piling on.

It reminds me of the way they piled on her when she was here.

Of course, they did the same thing to Hillary, even after she became the nominee.

[MrScorpio]

33. Very telling indeed.

[ismnotwasm]

44. It should be a time for what I call self reflection for we, who are white People

Or self examination, or insight, or take a fuckin class on American ethnicity, or talk to ones “black friends”—IF the level of of friendship is actually appropriate for discussions of race and racism

But no. For so many it’s a time of attack and deflection. And “I’m not a racist but” or “I/they/you/he/she can’t be a racist because”— insert relationship or experience with someone not white.

[Eliot Rosewater]

47. It is rather remarkable what we can learn when we listen to those who

have life experience we dont.

For instance no man should ever explain anything to a woman about how to handle menstruating, for instance, unless that man is an expert in the science of the field, as in a doctor or representative of a product or something.


It goes to reason that therefore no man should explain anything to a woman about reproductive healthcare, abortion, etc. Unless that man is a doctor giving medical advice.

No white person should explain anything to any POC about anything to do with racism, for the same reason and said white people should shut up and listen.

[niyad]

48. k and r for our Bravenak

[MineralMan]

49. Very revealing, as well, I thought.

She was one of those DUers who were stalked, constantly alerted on, and driven away from DU. I recognize people in the threads yesterday who were part of that.

What a shame it all is...

[Eliot Rosewater]

51. You recognized the people who stalked her and get her gone?

They are still here?

Sad.

[Evergreen Emerald]

52. You are awesome Bravenak!

[Squinch]

53. Many of those same folk have made variations on the comment, "Fuck you, Donald," but when

Bravenak says it about a Trump(R) surrogate-once-removed and gets threatening racist and sexist comments in reply, we must all set our hair on fire with outrage and defend the surrogate.

Because....

.... I have no idea why. It makes no sense at all.

Really. None.