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JHan

(10,173 posts)
Tue Feb 21, 2017, 12:33 PM Feb 2017

This is some bitter truth..

"When white people are hurting economically we’re supposed to feel their pain and “bring the jobs back” to their dying rural towns. But when people of color lack jobs in the cities (in large part because of the decline of manufacturing over 40 plus years, as well as discrimination) we tell them to “move,” to go to school and gain new skills, and we lecture them on pulling themselves up by their bootstraps because the government doesn’t owe them anything. But apparently we DO owe white coal miners and assembly line workers their jobs back because remember, out of work white men are “salt of the earth” while out of work people of color are lazy."

- Tim Wise
57 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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This is some bitter truth.. (Original Post) JHan Feb 2017 OP
Well now--Trump did promise to help the inner cities. But how is the question. riversedge Feb 2017 #1
The greatest detail he's given about inner cities is talk of "law and order".. JHan Feb 2017 #3
Right. Didn't he hint at sending the National Guard into Chicago? Tanuki Feb 2017 #4
I think he said "the Feds" NewJeffCT Feb 2017 #15
The way he used "feds" was interesting - JHan Feb 2017 #16
i believe he can call up the guard. mopinko Feb 2017 #25
It would have to be something like that because state governors control their National Guards... brush Feb 2017 #42
"How" is not really a Repub strong suit... Wounded Bear Feb 2017 #8
"Trickle down mythology..." HopeAgain Feb 2017 #12
With more law enforcement. wildeyed Feb 2017 #30
Stop 'n Frisk should do it. Dream Girl Feb 2017 #41
One of the US foundational myths. guillaumeb Feb 2017 #2
yup Afromania Feb 2017 #5
"pulled myself up by my bootstraps" .. ... JHan Feb 2017 #18
You hit upon it, the rural poor and unemployed urban dwellers have a the same problem. No jobs. brush Feb 2017 #43
So sadly harsh but true. lark Feb 2017 #6
Same goes for all the "concern" about the "recent" drug epidemic. malchickiwick Feb 2017 #7
They are clueless askyagerz Feb 2017 #9
Welcome to DU askyagerz progressoid Feb 2017 #19
Thanks askyagerz Feb 2017 #31
welcome! :) JHan Feb 2017 #24
Thanks askyagerz Feb 2017 #33
I am glad you were able to escape that culture lunasun Feb 2017 #52
Kick,Kick,Kicked&Recommended!! coco22 Feb 2017 #10
K&R Quayblue Feb 2017 #11
ignore past decades of redlining. lead used in their 'ghettos'. bootstraps? after amputating pansypoo53219 Feb 2017 #13
K&R ck4829 Feb 2017 #14
K&R ismnotwasm Feb 2017 #17
there is a thread in GD which is really making me so fucKing angrry JI7 Feb 2017 #20
I don't get all the navel gazing and tone policing over outright hate. smh JHan Feb 2017 #22
I read that one heaven05 Feb 2017 #54
Thank you for Tim Wise, JHan Cha Feb 2017 #21
he is totally on point JHan Feb 2017 #23
I'm not so sure that's true. Honeycombe8 Feb 2017 #26
I disagree... minorities are blamed for their lot in life.. JHan Feb 2017 #27
drugs is another area. the reaction to drug use among black people JI7 Feb 2017 #35
I just don't think that's true. Honeycombe8 Feb 2017 #46
no, i see the difference clearly. drug use among blacks was treated different than among whites JI7 Feb 2017 #47
well if drug addiction/use heaven05 Feb 2017 #53
That was only for Trump's campaign. Not Hillary's. Honeycombe8 Feb 2017 #48
I shared those links to point out how much the concern over the WWC took priority in the election.. JHan Feb 2017 #49
would we have gotten the same sympathy forjusticethunders Feb 2017 #55
You expressed my thoughts on this exactly. Well said! iluvtennis Feb 2017 #28
K&R brer cat Feb 2017 #29
Katrina shadowmayor Feb 2017 #32
news story at the time described white people as "finding" JI7 Feb 2017 #34
I helped clean up in New Orleans shadowmayor Feb 2017 #36
yeah, when you look at everything the lies from brian williams JI7 Feb 2017 #37
Thank you for that viewpoint. And for helping! FailureToCommunicate Feb 2017 #39
I remember General Honore. He took charge and told those troops to stop training their weapons on... brush Feb 2017 #45
Yes, that is the bitter truth. nt raccoon Feb 2017 #38
Sums it up. BumRushDaShow Feb 2017 #40
I'm so sick of hearing about rural voters. Initech Feb 2017 #44
K & R Chitown Kev Feb 2017 #50
K & R!!!! 50 Shades Of Blue Feb 2017 #51
Dayum dayum dayum DAYUM!!! Number23 Feb 2017 #56
hey, you! kwassa Feb 2017 #57

JHan

(10,173 posts)
3. The greatest detail he's given about inner cities is talk of "law and order"..
Tue Feb 21, 2017, 12:41 PM
Feb 2017

His view of Black America is limited.

Tanuki

(14,893 posts)
4. Right. Didn't he hint at sending the National Guard into Chicago?
Tue Feb 21, 2017, 12:44 PM
Feb 2017

Unless they're too busy fanning out all across the country rounding up DACA Dreamers.

NewJeffCT

(56,827 posts)
15. I think he said "the Feds"
Tue Feb 21, 2017, 04:24 PM
Feb 2017

I don't think he'd have the authority to call in the Illinois national guard?

I assume by "the Feds" he meant a large FBI task force or something along those lines? Like Eliot Ness in The Untouchables movie with Kevin Costner (yes, I know Ness worked for the bureau in charge of prohibition...but, this is Trump we're talking about)

JHan

(10,173 posts)
16. The way he used "feds" was interesting -
Tue Feb 21, 2017, 05:03 PM
Feb 2017

Problem areas in Chicago could do with some support , but Tropicana Jong Il's idea of "support" is sending in troops for a crackdown.

mopinko

(69,804 posts)
25. i believe he can call up the guard.
Tue Feb 21, 2017, 07:35 PM
Feb 2017

prolly the first thing they would do is put his little honorary street sign back up, which is why he has such a bug up his ass about chicago.

the irony, of course, is that the feds were already here. obama sent them. they sent the doj to figure out why our cops are so corrupt. trust me, a great deal of the violence here is due to corrupt cops who are not doing the people's business.

brush

(53,467 posts)
42. It would have to be something like that because state governors control their National Guards...
Wed Feb 22, 2017, 11:59 AM
Feb 2017

unless of course trump promises some of these red state governors something if they deploy their National Guard troops to do his dirty work.

Wounded Bear

(58,437 posts)
8. "How" is not really a Repub strong suit...
Tue Feb 21, 2017, 01:51 PM
Feb 2017

in that regard, he's a perfect Repub. He promised a lot of shit, never wasted much time on how to get it done.

HopeAgain

(4,407 posts)
12. "Trickle down mythology..."
Tue Feb 21, 2017, 02:56 PM
Feb 2017

That by making more people rich, they will spend more and the money will "trickle down" to the less fortunate.

Total bullshit because it is based upon the idea of encouraging economic classes somehow helps the lower class. Something completely incongruous with any respected economic theory. What we are really dealing with is a myth created to justify a strongly ordered society based upon class. What it really does is allow continuation of invidious discrimination through economic privileges.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
2. One of the US foundational myths.
Tue Feb 21, 2017, 12:36 PM
Feb 2017

Right along such favorites as: "all men are created equal...."

or, another perennial favorite: "with liberty and justice for all."


Recommended.

Afromania

(2,767 posts)
5. yup
Tue Feb 21, 2017, 01:13 PM
Feb 2017

I spent the entire first month after the election arguing in the "have compassion for rural voters" threads. We have been suffering from these exact problems since forever. It wasn't all that important to them to bring jobs to our communities.

Still with it all the same thing no work within shouting distance. I'd like these same people to frigging acknowledge the fact that their problems and ours are exactly the same; and stop acting like assholes about it in the process.

They can either they pull their boot straps up like they keep telling us to do or maybe it would be alright to have the entire system of government overturned in an effort to bring jobs to inner cities that either fled or weren't there in the first place. We've technically been at this struggling with poverty thing a whole hell of a lot longer so I call retroactive dibs on the whole "have empathy for deal".

You get what you give and we've been given a whole lot of nothing but finger pointing, scorn and "law and order". So excuse me for not having overflowing tears and sadness for these people. However, what I do have is an open invitation to understand that our fights are one in the same.

JHan

(10,173 posts)
18. "pulled myself up by my bootstraps" .. ...
Tue Feb 21, 2017, 05:05 PM
Feb 2017

One of those lies people tell themselves. Support systems and friendships are two major keys to success.

brush

(53,467 posts)
43. You hit upon it, the rural poor and unemployed urban dwellers have a the same problem. No jobs.
Wed Feb 22, 2017, 12:22 PM
Feb 2017

What the rural poor don't get is what they think is their big asset, their white skin, is actually a disadvantage in a way because it allows the divide-and-conquer crowd to use that to pit them against the urban poor and they fall for it time after time after time after time.

It's worked historically for the "divide-and-conquer, now trickle-down-crowd&quot what a crock of devious shit trickle down is) since the days of enslavement when they saw indentured servant whites and black enslaved people starting to intermingle and even marry. They couldn't have that so they started putting poor whites in overseer positions to squash that, which led eventually to police departments and their history antipathy towards blacks.

And we may just as well bring in all the unemployed and under employed white working class, Latinos and other Pocs. We've all got the same problem, no decent jobs and safety nets about to be cut and no solidarity with people with the same problem.

lark

(23,003 posts)
6. So sadly harsh but true.
Tue Feb 21, 2017, 01:32 PM
Feb 2017

Of course the "bring the jobs back" for white folks is just a lie as well. They don't want anyone to prosper, anyone, if they aren't already rich. They hate whites and black and browns but try to make it look different to suck up to the majority whites so they will vote Repug, against their own economic interests. R's are out to destroy the working class, period the end, regardless of race, sex, ability or anything else. Too many working class whites were deluded by the lies and fake promises. They will find out to their peril the terrible wrong they've done to themselves and all Americans. Of course, the KKK, Aryan Nation, White separatists and Nazis will love him because they care more about hate that prosperity.

malchickiwick

(1,474 posts)
7. Same goes for all the "concern" about the "recent" drug epidemic.
Tue Feb 21, 2017, 01:49 PM
Feb 2017

Suddenly it's a problem?? Oh sure, it is now disproportionately affecting white folks.

askyagerz

(776 posts)
9. They are clueless
Tue Feb 21, 2017, 02:07 PM
Feb 2017

I'm from very red Southern Illinois and before I escaped to the west coast I always used to hear about lazy black people. That they live in ghettos because they won't work but of course when white folks don't have anything its because of the federal government. Just typical conservative hypocrisy. They want to complain about stuff that doesn't effect them in anyway just to make themselves feel better about not having everything they feel entitled to. No one is really rich from where I'm from but they all seem to think it's going to happen tomorrow. They live in a bubble of only experiencing other cultures from news and tv. They only know the American dream that is stuffed down their throats every night on the fantasy tube. They really think they are driving a 10 year old car while all black thugs are driving brand new Cadillacs. They just don't know because they've never experienced life outside the cornfields. It's not going to change. Probably just going to get worse. It pretty much boils down to jealousy. It really does suck to live in such a rural area doing the same thing over and over again and as long as they perceive someone living better or having a better time then them they will always find an excuse for why it's not them.

pansypoo53219

(20,906 posts)
13. ignore past decades of redlining. lead used in their 'ghettos'. bootstraps? after amputating
Tue Feb 21, 2017, 03:19 PM
Feb 2017

the feet + putting up hurdles. i keep educating my moderate old school republican whenever he says HE USED HIS BOOT STRAPS. drives me up the wall. i LOVED being integrated.

JI7

(89,173 posts)
20. there is a thread in GD which is really making me so fucKing angrry
Tue Feb 21, 2017, 06:14 PM
Feb 2017

Trump is going after minorities and the op is concerned about us calling trump supporters stupid.

But nothing about their cheering on the deportations and bans.

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
54. I read that one
Thu Feb 23, 2017, 10:41 PM
Feb 2017

like a poster said yesterday....YES they are stupid and I will continue to tell them that as loudly as I possibly can. They made the decision to vote for a known con man, misogynist, racist, Islamaphobic asshole on some weak shit that he's going to "drain the swamp", "bring good paying jobs back". What a laugh people so easily fooled are. They were stupid and may I add just like their candidate/now boy potus before they voted for this disaster and they are stupid now...whether they stay that way....we'll see. After he get finished putting the screw to them, we'll see. To hell with them, they get everything they deserve and hopefully much more. I'm going to get it too, but my eyes are wide open and I expect the worse, these dumbasses are living in a dream bubble that will burst.

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
26. I'm not so sure that's true.
Tue Feb 21, 2017, 09:13 PM
Feb 2017

No one sympathized with the white blue collar workers. What the workers did was coalesce and go shopping for someone who would put their interests at the forefront (Trump), and vote him in.

No one was feeling the pain of the white blue collar workers, any more than they were feeling the pain of the black blue collar workers. To all, people were saying to move if necessary, gain new skills, adjust to the changing world.

The white blue collar workers' jobs were in manufacturing, too. So when they voted someone in to work on it, they voted someone in to work on the issue for black workers, too.

It's just too bad that the person they voted in doesn't have their interests as his main goal, and even if he tries to do something, he doesn't have a clue of how to go about it and may end up screwing things up more. Time will tell.

It's the manufacturing in the midwestern states that got Trump in, as well as PA. It wasn't the coal miners. They always vote Republican, anyway.

I still think it's true that workers in fields that are declining should try to switch fields. Coal mining can last for a while, but it's on the way out, long term. Car manufacturing is global, now, even if Trump manages to add some jobs here short term.

I don't think there's anything wrong with moving for job opportunities or gaining skills, if a person can do those things. I did. It's just necessary sometimes, if you want to make a decent living.

JHan

(10,173 posts)
27. I disagree... minorities are blamed for their lot in life..
Tue Feb 21, 2017, 09:20 PM
Feb 2017

Consistently.

Throughout the election, the pain of "salt of the earth" people*, the concerns of the white working class ( as though working class people of color don't exist) were prioritized over others. Soul searching narratives were written trying to explain the Trump voter, and their world views.

Tahesi Coates said it better than I ever could. ....white grievance, no matter how ill-founded, can never be humiliating nor disqualifying. On the contrary, it is a right to be respected at every level of American society from the beer-hall to the penthouse to the newsroom.

And also: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/06/trumps-rhetoric-of-white-nostalgia/485192/

JI7

(89,173 posts)
35. drugs is another area. the reaction to drug use among black people
Wed Feb 22, 2017, 01:25 AM
Feb 2017

and now the reaction to it among whites.

with whites it's about what others need to do to help them. with blacks it's all about telling them what they need to do and just blaming them .

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
46. I just don't think that's true.
Thu Feb 23, 2017, 12:38 AM
Feb 2017

I've not heard that. Drug programs are referenced for all drug users with no reference or intent as to race or gender.

Generally, drug addicts, esp those who commit other crimes, are regarded as pretty scummy, no matter their race. Of course, the rich ones are thought of better, like the movie stars. So there's a class distinction with drug addiction, like with other things.

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
53. well if drug addiction/use
Thu Feb 23, 2017, 10:31 PM
Feb 2017

is referenced to all, no matter societal differences, why are prisons full of AA who committed no other crime than to have one joint on them or some rocks of cocaine, first offenders, and white addicts caught the same way end up in those non-referenced drug programs and on probation. The way addicted POC are treated by this society and in those drug programs have racial and class distinctions and different outcomes for the same "crimes".....

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
48. That was only for Trump's campaign. Not Hillary's.
Thu Feb 23, 2017, 12:53 AM
Feb 2017

That's why she lost, pundits have said.

The complaint against the Dems in the last election, I've read, is that they lost touch with the middle class, instead focusing on other areas. The middle class includes people of color, but they have overlapping issues with the other areas the Dems were focusing on, maybe.

I'm no expert, so I don't know why Hillary lost. Just saying what I read.

I can say that I haven't heard much concern over the loss of jobs of the middle class since the passing of NAFTA. There's been some talk, but not much. So there was this anger about that, apparently. At least, that's what they say resulted in a Trump win (unfortunately).

There has been a lot of talk and concern over the issues that are particular to people of color, from the Dems, over the years. Voter rights, voter ID laws, gerrymandering, immigration, Social Security and Medicare, the ACA, gay rights and marriage, refugees. That's what I've been hearing for years.

JHan

(10,173 posts)
49. I shared those links to point out how much the concern over the WWC took priority in the election..
Thu Feb 23, 2017, 09:59 AM
Feb 2017

and the aftermath, even attempts to excuse xenophobia, which is a stark contrast to how other groups are treated when they've been hit economically.. there is an undeniable double standard in the way these issues are approached and discussed, that is the point of the OP.

 

forjusticethunders

(1,151 posts)
55. would we have gotten the same sympathy
Fri Feb 24, 2017, 01:30 PM
Feb 2017

if we voted for Louis fucking Farrakhan? Or even Al Sharpton (didn't he run in a primary once)

shadowmayor

(1,325 posts)
32. Katrina
Wed Feb 22, 2017, 12:06 AM
Feb 2017

When those who couldn't escape were up to their necks in muddy water, what did lil' shrub do? He proclaimed that the First thing he had to do was to establish law and order. Not provide medical aide and water. And the fawning corporate media filled the air with fake news about shootings and rapes etc. Turns out, the only rampaging going on was by law enforcement officers, not the populace.

Please go see I am not your Negroe. James Baldwin's story is more than compelling on its own, but this documentary is truly remarkable.

JI7

(89,173 posts)
34. news story at the time described white people as "finding"
Wed Feb 22, 2017, 01:19 AM
Feb 2017

the things they were taking .

while black people were described as "looting" .

shadowmayor

(1,325 posts)
36. I helped clean up in New Orleans
Wed Feb 22, 2017, 01:41 AM
Feb 2017

Got back from Iraq in December 2005. One of our sister units was from New Orleans (Army Guard) and they got sent home early to deal with Katrina. Volunteered for clean up in New Orleans in March 2006 - six months after the flood. Bodies were still being recovered in a few places.

Met in the morning at the Walmart Parking Lot on Tchoupitoulas Street in the Crescent. The manager of the Walmart told us how after the waters rose, he put out the word that all his inventory was a write-off and that folks should come get all the supplies they could carry. Even policemen showed up to get water, diapers etc. The cameras filmed these people "looting" a Walmart with lots of tsks tsks from the average American watching the boob tube. Incredible.

One hero was General Honore who's troops made it through the high water. When he saw the situation he barked, put your weapons away and get these people some water. There was no chaos, or pillaging, just suffering people.

A whole lot of "real" fake news came out of the Katrina disaster.

JI7

(89,173 posts)
37. yeah, when you look at everything the lies from brian williams
Wed Feb 22, 2017, 05:03 AM
Feb 2017

were not the worst . the ones that attacked the victims were far worse.

brush

(53,467 posts)
45. I remember General Honore. He took charge and told those troops to stop training their weapons on...
Wed Feb 22, 2017, 12:41 PM
Feb 2017

fellow Americans (black Americans). I was really proud of him.

Initech

(99,912 posts)
44. I'm so sick of hearing about rural voters.
Wed Feb 22, 2017, 12:31 PM
Feb 2017

They think they're the only vote that should count. Do they think us people who live in large, diverse cities like Los Angeles, San Francisco, Dallas, Denver, Chicago, New York, St. Louis don't count? No they must think the of diversity the same way Ron Burgundy from Anchorman does - as a very old wooden ship from the Civil War era.

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