Afternoon Musings by 1SBM ...

[1StrongBlackMan]

Every time 1SBM hears the "the system is rigged" meme, he can't help but wonder ... Are the same forces, that worked overtime, in its attempt(s) to delegitimize the first Black President of the U.S., at play in an/the attempt to delegitimize the Presidency of the (likely) first Female President of the U.S.

It is no secret that "the establishment" holds, dear, the (mis)belief that the only legitimate holders of the reins of power are white males.

Something to ponder!

[JustAnotherGen]

1. I think so

Even when she wins fair and square - it will be said.

[brer cat]

2. I absolutely believe that is true. nt

[JonLeibowitz]

3. I think ...

I think that when a lot of progressives say that "the system is rigged" they are echoing Elizabeth Warren (at least, that is where I first saw this particular language used so frequently and forcefully) and are not speaking directly to individual actors in a political system, i.e. Sec. Clinton. Rather, the reference is to corporations which actively work against their employees' and customers' interests and engage in regulatory capture. The reference is to the corrosive effects of big money in politics, especially at the congressional level. Super PACs, lobbying, revolving door, corruption, lack of prosecution of financial actors widely recognized as maliciously manipulating markets. This is what I understand "the system is rigged" to refer to.

To be clear, to the extent that "the system is rigged" has been used in the context of this primary to refer directly to the nominating process, I think its use is regrettable (though again, I don't think it is in question that the institutional forces were largely aligned on one side of the party this time around). But I think you overestimate the extent to which this particular phrase is used in this manner.

[1StrongBlackMan]

8. I understand how the phrase is used ...

in terms of the economy/income distribution.

I completely agree that the usage of the phrase, in terms of this/these primary/primaries, is regrettable ... but completely disagree that institutional forces (i.e., the Democratic Party establishment) being largely aligned on one side of the party is a sign that "the system is rigged", so much as a recognition that 40+ years of loyal service to the Party pays more dividends than 30+ years of Party opposition/criticism.

But I think you overestimate the extent to which this particular phrase is used in this manner.

Perhaps, but after every Sanders primary loss?

[JonLeibowitz]

10. You are correct that party loyalty may be a factor

But for some powerful Democratic interests I don't think loyalty is central. Consider Ed Rendell (who I love to rag on) who suggested that many Democrats would bolt for Bloomberg (he strongly implied that he personally would, and would encourage others to). Bloomberg has never been a Democrat, so for some powerful voices in the party it isn't at all clear that they hold party loyalty in very high regard. To me that is evidence of interest in some centrist political program.

And I don't really want to re-debate the primary, but I really don't see the system as set up as insider vs. outsider but as powerful interests vs. grassroots.

Some of the supporters went off the deep end. However, do try to understand that oftentimes the Clintons completely disengaged from the issues debate, only to re-engage when a race was tight and they needed to wallop Sanders with some issue (guns, auto bailout etc). There is a frustration that there was not an interest in a real debate of ideas and instead the powerful interests + media bias would prevail.

[sheshe2]

4. I do believe you are correct, 1SBM.

[mcar]

5. An interesting question

[progressoid]

6. I do think there are forces trying desperately to keep Hillary out of office

Their motivations are varied IMHO. I feel it's most likely power and greed. Sexism and racism (for Obama) is a bonus motivator for them.

FWIW, I recall people saying the system was rigged in the 2000 Gore/Bush debacle too. So I suppose it depends on the definition of 'rigged'.

[lovemydog]

7. Yes, I consider it a factor in some of the vitriol

against Clinton.

It's tricky though because everyone has their own often discombobulated feelings about things. It's when they are so certain about them and think they are oh so brilliant that I pause and go 'wtf?'

Can you imagine what kind of 'beliefs' the right wing often has about the system being rigged against them (personally or politically). Generally they have as many distorted views as those among the left. It seems like neither side does much to acknowledge its victories. It's always like 'we're losing - it's the fault of the system.' Lazy tripe as far as I'm concerned. We liberals score many impressive victories and I take joy in them. I can't stand spoil sports who just whine and decry every single thing. They're the type of players who never make it very far - no one wants them on their team because they poison the locker rooms with toxicity. Can you tell I'm gearing up to watch tonight's basketball game? LOL!

Remember everyone has their own theories about why they do or don't 'like' someone. They really don't amount to a hill of beans. What matters most is that we keep fighting for our beliefs & try and treat others with the kind of respect that we would like to receive.

[1StrongBlackMan]

9. Well stated.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

11. Absolutely!