Bernie just equated working voters with white voters, again.

[pnwmom]

Last edited Wed May 18, 2016, 12:41 PM - Edit history (1)

**** Posted to the AFRICAN AMERICAN GROUP ****

He just doesn't get it.

No, Bernie, African American and Hispanic people aren't being tempted by Trump and his nonsense. And they do work. And vote. Trump hasn't captured the votes of "the majority of working people" because he hasn't captured PoC.

http://fortune.com/2016/05/18/democrats-pressuring-bernie-sanders/

Sanders also warned of “a very sad and tragic option” for the party: “to choose to maintain its status quo structure, remain dependent on big-money campaign contributions and be a party with limited participation and limited energy. And a party which incredibly is allowing a right-wing extremist Republican Party to capture the votes of the majority of working people in this country.”

[Iliyah]

1. UGH.

[Silver_Witch]

2. I see no such equation in this statement.

Sorry you see it and sorrier still that you would think that is what he means. At least you can rest knowing Hillary will probably win and all will be okay!

[Hiraeth]

3. I don't see it, either. I think they are looking at something and finding it because they WANT it to

be there. Working people have issues and black working people have issues and there is an intersection where we all meet.

Some don't want to meet at that intersection.

“Out beyond ideas of wrong doing
and right doing there is a field.
I'll meet you there.
-Rumi

[pnwmom]

5. Any majority of working voters has to include a substantial number of PoC. Trump

might get a majority of working white voters, but he'll never have enough PoC votes to get a majority of all working voters.

[Haveadream]

72. Please clarify...

Hireath, you said:

Working people have issues and black working people have issues and there is an intersection where we all meet.

Do you mean "working people" or "white working people"?

I don't want to misinterpret your statement.

[LanternWaste]

88. The corollary being just as possible...

The corollary being just as possible...

"I think they are looking at something and not finding it because they DON'T WANT it to..."

But without numbers being crunched and analyzed, it's little more than bias and perception telling us what we see and don't see.

[pnwmom]

4. Then you can't do math. Any majority of working voters would have to include a substantial

number of minority voters -- and they're not supporting Trump.

[Number23]

64. Considering that 90% of minorities consider Trump the scum of the earth and the percentages of

black and Hispanics that are working class are higher than that of white people, tell me again how you don't see that "equation" in that statement?

[The Polack MSgt]

6. Over 40% of the "Working Class" are POC

And the median income of Trump supporters is higher than the median income of either Democratic candidate.

He is repeating a comforting lie peddled by the right and the press that protects them. Trump is being supported by white racists.

Trump is being supported by white racists, and all the nonsense "angry voters choosing anti-establishment candidates like Sanders and Trump" is just more both sides do it deflection.

The majority of poor whites are not rallying around Trump. They are displaying their hatred of brown people and the "liberals" who don't hate them as much as they do. Trump is irrelevant - any white guy saying racist shit was going to win.

Democrats are no more than a 2 word phrase to these people. We all know what it is, the second word is "Lovers"

Sanders knows this, he just wants to get a slice of the slightly less racist white people - the ones who are positive that all this fuss can be fixed by addressing income inequality, while ignoring all other brands of inequality.

So I disagree pnwmom - Bernie gets it

[Hiraeth]

9. well, perhaps that breaks it down in terminology pnwmom can understand.

Sanders knows this, he just wants to get a slice of the slightly less racist white people - the ones who are positive that all this fuss can be fixed by addressing income inequality, while ignoring all other brands of inequality.

Bernie wants to address income inequality because it affects the widest majority of all Americans which helps the most people.
At the same time we can address minority issues. They can both be addressed at the same time. I think we are capable of doing two things at a time.

[JustAnotherGen]

14. Senator Sanders may very well want to do what you say

Posted to the African American Group

But he needs to stop talking about getting the Republican Party's voters.

I think the majority of black voters (myself included) believe it to be filled with rank and file bigots who are just out for themselves. I can't blame them - that's the Ameri 3-KKK's and an A way.

By him asking me to align with those people - he's asking me to be against myself and be for them.

I can't do that.

I'm sure you can understand. That's a step backwards for black Americans

[Hiraeth]

15. well, you see, now you open it up for discussion about Clinton and

the argument of whether or not she is a Republican in the guise of a Democrat and are you denying there is such a thing as a Black Republican....

I refuse to open these cans of worms with anyone on this format.

wrong place. wrong time.

[JustAnotherGen]

16. I don't think she is

I don't think Sanders is one either.


Black Republicans exist - but in very small numbers.

Gollygee posted an article below -take a look at it. It speaks to how minority groups regardless of wealth kind of 'join up' when another group is threatened.

At this point - the real threat is Trump supporters - who are far more dangerous than he is.

[Hiraeth]

23. see I think she is and that is why you and I will continue to disagree.

I tried to like the Clintons. I remember Bill playing his sax on Arsenio Hall:

I live in a ghost town thanks to NAFTA.

also:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1991953


two things very important to me:
climate change
social security

I like what Bernie has to say about both those issues.

Hillary hates people. Bernie hates climate change. That is the hugest fundamental difference in them.

[JustAnotherGen]

27. No - we'll disagree

Because you are talking about things in absolutes and refuse to hear/see/understand anything other than the place where you sit in this life.

Guess what? I do the same thing!

I was an early O'Malley supporter and even gave to a PAC supporting him.

To me - he was the strongest on Climate Change, could 'monetize it', had experience with that. Neither Sanders nor Clinton have that as a strength - it's an 'oh yeah by the way'.

Clinton has the strength of foreign policy - you don't have to agree with her views - but she does.

Sanders has the strength of the working class white male concerns. I have no doubt he can and has energized them.


But - the environment he gets no pass from me on. That was and remains O'Malley's strong point. He 'did' what others only can talk and dream about it.

Then when I look at Sanders dealings with the Dummya in the late 90's with the radioactive waste - after O'Malley dropped out - it force me to Clinton.

Clinton could shoot puppies for sport and I would still vote for her in the Primary. That deal with Dummya in Texas - put every person along the I-95 corridor at risk. Just consider the derailments we've had lately. Just think about the Hazmat risk.

Could Sanders say - "folks as President I will make Vermont eat their own radioactive waste!" Yep. And I would respect the hell out of him for saying it.

[Hiraeth]

31. what say you to Nina Turner?

[JustAnotherGen]

38. She is irrelevant to me

Ditto Corny.

[Hiraeth]

60. And with that I am outta here. Group unsubscribed

Op put on ignore. Done.

[Number23]

65. Fantastic! Thanks so much!!!

[Starry Messenger]

75. I like it when folks find their own solutions too.

Excellent.

[Tarheel_Dem]

94. Ironically, that's the only statement you've made in this thread that I agree with. Buh Bye!

[Number23]

67. How DARE you not think that Nina Turner is incredibly important!!!111

I'm sure the vast majority of people in Ohio where Turner is from haven't thought about her in a years but because she is a Sanders spokeswoman with melanin, that somehow should make her INCREDIBLY important to all of us Negroes and Negresses. I had never heard of the woman before this primary season and I'm willing to bet NEITHER HAD 99% OF SANDERS SUPPORTERS.

I have long since given up on trying to understand these people.

[Chitown Kev]

84. lol

[JustAnotherGen]

85. Shhh

Don't tell them I've voted for Booker twice and think he should be running for Governor.

[pnwmom]

45. "Hillary hates people." Total B.S. A person who hates people doesn't

take a job with the Children's Defense Fund as her first job out of Yale Law school -- instead of a job at a fancy NY law firm.

A person who hates people doesn't fight for children and healthcare for her entire life.

[Baobab]

96. There is a lot you don't know about that period. During the 90s the Clintons were setting up this

global deal that basically has eliminated things like all children's right to health and education- its done this to create a new right to sell them those things for corporations

http://www.iatp.org/files/Wrong_Model_GATS_Trade_Liberalisation_and_Chil.htm

[Scootaloo]

25. But... isn't that Clinton's plan?

WILLIAMSON, W.Va. — Hillary Clinton’s campaign is trying to seize on the turmoil Donald J. Trump’s ascent has caused within the Republican Party, hoping to gain the support of Republican voters and party leaders including former elected officials and retired generals disillusioned by their party’s standard-bearer.

The efforts come after the House speaker, Paul D. Ryan, on Thursday said he was “just not ready” to back Mr. Trump, comments the Clinton campaign giddily blasted out in an email and on social media. At the same time, Priorities USA Action, a “super PAC” supporting Mrs. Clinton, intends to reach out to Republican megadonors disillusioned by their party’s presumptive nominee.

More broadly, Mrs. Clinton’s campaign is repositioning itself, after a year of emphasizing liberal positions and focusing largely on minority voters, to also appeal to independent and Republican-leaning white voters turned off by Mr. Trump.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/07/us/politics/hillary-clinton-republican-party.html

So. She's asking you to be against yourself, as well. She'd focusing on a strategy that will be a step backwards for black Americans, too. And remember, unlike Sanders, she has actually claimed that working people = white people,

“I have a much broader base to build a winning coalition on,” she said in the interview, citing an article by The Associated Press.

It “found how Senator Obama’s support among working, hard-working Americans, white Americans, is weakening again, and how whites in both states who had not completed college were supporting me.”

“There’s a pattern emerging here,” she said.

What's up with this obvious double standard?

[JustAnotherGen]

28. I'd back away

Number23 is the 'leader' of the Group Hosts and she pretty much clearly stated she doesn't want you back here.

I politely asked pnwmom to update her thread with the Af Am Group Disclaimer - I don't know if she has yet - but back away.

Could you maybe put the group on trash?

Thanks.

[Scootaloo]

33. Very well.

Though, if I could ask in parting... If you have an answer to my question here, could you PM me with it or something?

Thanks, JAG.

[JustAnotherGen]

37. I will answer it publicly

By voting for the Democratic Party since 2007 I have voted against my secondary interest - taxes/money. That's the year that I had reached $1 Million in my retirement - long before I was married. (I got the marriage bump but I didn't need it)

It did not come from just hanging around and getting it handed to me.

I moved 450 miles away from home where I knew not a sou in 2006 to get into my current company.

Prior to that while my peers were getting married and having children - I worked as a Channel Manager for a Pre-IPO VoIP PBX Manufacturer. In this job in 2005 - from January to July 30th I slept 14 nights in my apartment in Rochester NY. 14 nights. The rest were spent in Detroit, Boston, NYC, Youngstown Ohio, etc. etc. Everywhere but home.

Prior to that I worked for a division of Bell South where I was on the road quite a bit but not as much at the PBX Manufacturer.

Prior to that I was laid off for close to a year because prior to that . . . I was at the Glotanic or Global Double Crossing as some call it . . . where I was blackballed for speaking up and out about the the con game John Ledger *current CEO of T-Mobile* ran. I was the FIRST BLACK WOMAN in the old Frontier Corps (merged with Global Crossing) carrier services - and there was resentment from Union employees (both black and white) that I stepped into the job as I quote (a snot nosed kid) where I often sat alone at lunch. When I COULD take lunch - because they didn't expect me to succeed (management) but my Carriers (customers) made sure I put up my numbers. That required isolation from my white male competitors on the job.


I resent ANYONE telling me I'm not a worker. I deeply resent it. And I still drive the 2006 Nissan Altima I paid cash for. I'm not trying to impress anyone in real life or online. Not with a car - not with what I have. It's there for when I need it.

But I won't lie about it. And I won't let someone tell me lies that I'm not a 'worker' just because I got ahead of him through that SACRIFICE and Hard Work. <--- That's not directed towards the rank and file Sanders supporter. That's for the White Men Whining and Crying and Supporting Trump who I feel are lazy lay abouts who could have done everything I did but chose not to. I have zero empathy for them (White Male Trump Supporters).

Does that answer your question?

I.E. I already vote against myself - but at the end of the day a threat against muslims, hispanics, women, poor people, the elderly, black people - keeps me a Democratic Party member. My aknylosing spondylitis does too. Tick tock - what day will I wake up and never be able to use my left hip again? Tick Tock - what day does my rib cage completely close around me lungs (my body is slowly suffocating me). That's why I love Obamacare and feel it was a good start.

That's why I'm voting Democratic in November.

[Digital Puppy]

40. Even though you don't have to justify anything to anyone....I appreciate your post

And I appreciate you trying to engage these hard-headed people who can't see past their own pocketbook and self-interests. You have way more patience for these lectures and dismissive attitudes than I do.

[JustAnotherGen]

41. We have to stop Trump

We have to. I just a pm back to Scootaloo. My district - always red in Presidential Elections - is going to be bright blue.

Had a very interesting meeting with some locally elected officials in my home on Sunday. Most are Republicans.

Clinton is doing something smart and I wonder if any precinct captains can weigh in - or if it is just because this county seat is a borough of 4500 . . . she's knocking on Republican doors - or at least her GOTVers are. Very interesting.

Registration just closed on the 17th but not a chance in hell Republicans in this district were changing affiliation as they are trying to throw out Lance and get David Larsen elected. But these people are not going from voting for Romney to Trump.

They aren't. And we are all very leery of his relationship with Christie and what those two are up to in Atlantic City.

[pnwmom]

46. Wow, JAG. What a life you have had.

And it illustrates your point so well. Thanks for sharing this.

[Number23]

62. You are a gem. A jewel. An incredibly special, remarkable human being

And it is a profound privilege to "know" even though it is over intertubes separated by a thousand miles.

[rbrnmw]

70. You have worked hard my family works hard too!!!

It's insulting that people think all black folk live in the ghetto and need welfare, Most everyone I know works their asses off just as you have.

[Recursion]

83. Wonderful post. Also, about the PBXes

I've had to administer more kinds of PBX than I can count. I never understood why that market is so fragmented

[Hekate]

92. Beautifully and passionately stated, JAG.

Thank you for who you are.

[Number23]

63. "Sanders knows this, he just wants to get a slice of the slightly less racist white people"

Emphasis on slightly?

This is a fantastic point, MSgt.

Sanders knows this, he just wants to get a slice of the slightly less racist white people - the ones who are positive that all this fuss can be fixed by addressing income inequality, while ignoring all other brands of inequality.

I agree with you completely on this point and I may even be starting to agree with you that this is not a dog whistle from Sanders and that he knows exactly what he's saying.

[Blue Meany]

8. It's hyperbole not racism. The point of his whole campaign, I would argue,

is that we need to unity among working people and ought not allow the powers that be to divide us by race and ethnicity to diminish our power. IMO, both parties have some complicity in this by focusing on social and identity issues and following similar economic policies.

[fleabiscuit]

77. Question...

"...we need to unity among working people..."

Is there a convenient definition of 'working people' that you are fond of? I'd be interested in seeing it.

[Blue Meany]

79. I mean by this people who work for a living

or would like to be working for a living, or have worked for a living, in whatever capacity or occupation. I think that all the divisions: white collar/blue collar, middle-class/working class, professional/non-professional and gender, race, ethnicity etc., are all divisions that are used to our disadvantage by those at the top of the economy.

I guess that's not a quick definition, but that is what i think.

[JustAnotherGen]

10. Do me a favor and update op with

*Posted to the African American Group*


This makes the group hosts job much easier. It also keeps GDP out of the group. Thanks!

But it at the top of the OP (doesn't have to be in the subject line).

[KitSileya]

11. Ooops, I didn't see your post. But GMTA, it seems!

And yeah, the underlying racism of how Sanders speaks is obvious.

[JustAnotherGen]

12. votes of the majority of working people in this country

Senator Sanders doesn't seem to understand - that I might not be in a union, I might not be male, I might not be white -

But I work too.


So is he saying that I don't work? That my tax dollars are good for the majority but my vote isn't worth anything?


At first I didn't understand your post - but reading the article a few times I'm beginning to get the gist of it now.

Now let's take race out of it . . .

Is he saying that Democratics traditionally have not been 'workers' the past 40 years? I.E. Since Reagan? I seem to recall my dad working out of state for two years in the late 1980's - and he was very much against Reagan.

[gollygee]

17. Not very many working people are in unions anymore

And unions have a pretty bad history with racism.

I think there is great potential for unions but they haven't been perfect as practiced in our country. But I am the daughter of union members and I do think that unions are one way to protect workers. Unfortunately, in the US, they have often been a way to protect specifically white workers, and sometimes to protect them from competition from people of color.

This is the problem with just working on economics without specifically addressing racism at the same time. There is racism in every layer of every system in the US. Money doesn't trickle through those layers evenly because of the racism in the layers. So we need to protect and strengthen unions IMO, but we also need to do some kind of work to make sure that union membership is equally available to people of color, that people of color don't face discrimination within their unions, and that unions work just as hard for people of color.

[JustAnotherGen]

21. Yep

in the US, they have often been a way to protect specifically white workers, and sometimes to protect them from competition from people of color.

We've all been able to benefit from their work . . . eventually. But from the perspective of a woman? I want a Paycheck Fairness Act. That should be front and center of any 'income inequality' discussions.

[pnwmom]

47. Yes. My cousin had to take her employer to the EOC -- a scary thing to do

because she couldn't be sure there wouldn't be repercussions. After the EOC investigated, the employer ended up raising all the women's salaries by at least 50%, and hers got almost doubled.

The inequity was grievous and unmistakable, and it shouldn't have required an EOC investigation to get it fixed.

[JustAnotherGen]

48. This is why we need a Paycheck Fairness Act

Did she get back payments into Social Security?

Back pay at all where she could have bumped up her social security?

My mom is 'in retirement' but has an airport greeter job via the convention and visitors bureau. She works 'events' - not for the money. But they 'sucked her back in' in this way to keep close to her knowledge (many years in the Travel and Tourism industry as an Exec).

She is 67 and maybe works 9 hours a week to greet groups at the airport for CVB.

She works with women in their late 80's and 90's who put in 30-40 hours a week STRICTLY at the airport doing this job. They aren't 'representatives' of the city - Little Miss Lilac as my mom refers to herself - this is Shit Getting Real.

They made so little back in the day - they getting very little in Social Security now.

That is a fucking tragedy that we won't let women workers in the here and now sue with protection.


It's not just the pay in the here and now -it impacts their social security in 30 years.


Can I take this moment to state that O'Malley want to cut my cap - and he should have? Because it's the right thing to do to pay into the SS system against all earnings so we can give 'those girls' a raise? So they can retire and enjoy their lives?

[pnwmom]

49. If you mean he wanted to raise the lid on social security earnings, of course that should happen.

And I also agree with Hillary's point that it could also be extended to non-salary earnings.

With regard to my question, I don't think she got any back pay or credit toward SS -- which would have been the fair thing, of course. Sometime I'll ask her.

[JustAnotherGen]

50. Yep raise the lid

I will stop paying into the SSDI till on Friday this week.

That is a tragedy.

It is not necessary - and I don't need the money.

[pnwmom]

42. And I think he missed the rise of the Obama coalition.

Obama got elected even though Romney got the majority of both white men and white women voters. Bernie seems to think the vote of white men is still critical.

Hillary will beat Trump if the diverse Obama coalition of working people of all colors can hang together.

[gollygee]

13. Here's a good article about this but about Trump and not Sanders

The specifics aren't relevant but the underlying issue - that "working class" is about 40% people of color - is the same.

I should probably add, since everyone here knows that I'm a Bernie voter, that I think this is a product of Bernie's age and where he lives. I don't think there's any intent to equate working class with white. I absolutely recognize that this is a weak spot for him. He needed more people of color among his advisors, and if he'd included them and listened to them in his campaign, things might be different right now.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2016/05/what_pundits_keep_getting_wrong_about_donald_trump_and_the_working_class.html

The truth is that it’s inaccurate to talk about Trump’s “working-class appeal.” What Trump has, instead, is a message tailored to a conservative portion of white workers. These voters aren’t the struggling whites of Appalachia or the old Rust Belt, in part because those workers don’t vote, and there’s no evidence Trump has turned them out. Instead, Trump is winning those whites with middle-class incomes. Given his strength in unionized areas like the Northeast, some are blue collar and culturally working class. But many others are not. Many others are what we would simply call Republicans.

Even if Trump had a broad working-class message, it’s important to remember that people engage politics in different ways through different identities. A working-class black woman doesn’t have to be sympathetic to unauthorized immigrants to see threat in Trump’s rhetoric against outsiders; a working-class Hispanic man doesn’t have to hold politically correct attitudes about Muslim Americans to fear a candidate who promises a ban on a whole category of people. Given their high religiosity, black voters at one point were supposed to turn against Democrats on same-sex marriage. But the issue wasn’t salient for their politics—or at least, not salient in a contest between Republicans and Democrats. They remained in the fold.

Sullivan is right that the times call for vigilance. Against an unprecedented figure like Trump, complacency is dangerous. But we should also have clear eyes. Insofar that he represents any of it, Trump just speaks for a portion of working America, and the same divisions of race and religion that make broad working-class movements rare also limit the ability of a Trump figure to succeed. Why pundits can’t see this—why so many consistently miss the degree to which America is browner and blacker than it’s ever been—might have something to do with who they are. America’s commentary class is largely white. America’s voters, increasingly, are not.

[Hiraeth]

18. forget those other 60% .... ? you might think you are not saying that but,

I promise you a lot of people are hearing that.

what is the catch phrase around here these days ....

math

I think it is.

yeah, that is the word.

math.

[gollygee]

20. Math

If Hillary gets a large majority of working people of color, then she only needs a fairly small percentage of white working people supporting her to have a majority of working people on her side.

[JustAnotherGen]

22. Yep again

I also think we DO care about these labor issues - we do.

But they have to be framed in language we can 'hear'. I don't think Sanders framed his message in a way that working and middle class black Americans could hear.

[Hiraeth]

24. do you think ALL 40% of those will come out to vote for her? I don't.

Most of the black working class people I am surrounded by don't even vote.

[gollygee]

26. Have you done a survey?

What kind of conversations do you have with your black working class friends, and how many people are included in your survey?

A lot of people in the US don't vote, regardless of race.

But yes, I think roughly the same percentage of people of color will vote as white people.

[Hiraeth]

30. a formal survey? lol. Look, where I was working there are more black people than white

full disclosure: I am melungeon.

I pretty much keep my mouth shut at break time and LISTEN.

The blacks that I take break with talk about everything BUT the election.

I have recently transferred with my company and this location is more evenly split white/black.

I see no bumper stickers in this town. I have seen one for Trump. Two for Sanders. NONE for Clinton.

The only thing I hear said is that either way we are screwed regarding the choices between Clinton/Trump.

You have to understand: generations of blacks and whites worked side by side for years in this mill town.

NAFTA did away with those jobs.

[gollygee]

32. NAFTA did away with jobs where I live too

My town is completely different due to NAFTA. People who lived here before NAFTA would never recognize it if they came back now. There were a bunch of active factories, and now there are a bunch of decaying buildings.

But that doesn't mean people of color aren't going to vote. Them not talking about the election around you, or at all, doesn't mean they aren't going to vote. And they have statistically favored Hillary, and I can't imagine too many people of color are going to vote for Trump - you can read the article I posted in this thread for more about that.

[Hiraeth]

34. The youger blacks that have talked are not registered to vote and think the whole thing is a joke.

There is also a divide here between country people and city people. The country people no matter the color are more conservative.

I don't expect people to tell me the truth about who the vote for. It is really none of my business. Private matter. That is a big attitude around here.

I realize PoC will NOT vote FOR Trump but that does not necessarily mean they will vote FOR Hillary.

The thing hurting Bernie around here is low information voters.

Plus, I think a lot of people in this area will sit out this election.

I live in the reddest county of a red/purple southern state.

[gollygee]

35. I think it's arrogant to say that people vote against Bernie because they lack information

It's entirely possible for people to also be well informed but to make a different decision.

[Hiraeth]

36. personally, I think this whole thread/OP is arrogant. I am done here.

[Number23]

68. After reading your posts in this thread, I'm not the slightest bit surprised that black people would

choose to not discuss politics or other issues around you. For a number of reasons.

[pnwmom]

44. They voted for President Obama. And I think they will vote for Hillary and against Trump.

They won't be impressed with the Don.

[pnwmom]

43. Yes. Romney lost even though he had the majority of white men and white women.

Hillary is actually doing better than President Obama with white women -- so far. But her large majorities with minority voters are really propelling her.

[The Polack MSgt]

19. Thanks for this link.

I don't spend much time on Slate so I missed it.

[pnwmom]

39. I agree that he's not doing it purposely -- the same as some of the problems with women.

If he had had more women and people of color among his top advisors, things might have gone differently.

[Agnosticsherbet]

29. So women, African Americans, Hispanic/Latinos don't belong to the working class.

I wish I could see a picture of his audience. It helps to know who he addresses these remarks to. Republicans are certainly not paying attention to him.

[highprincipleswork]

51. PoC have fit nicely into the Hillary Clinton victim/aggressor/divider policy. More the pity for the

Democratic Party and the chance of Progressives to work together.

Why is this?

Bernie is much less about dividing and discriminating than you portray. Very much in the eyes of the beholder.

[MariaThinks]

52. bernie has jumped the shark

[CanadaexPat]

54. That's so Hillary!

[immoderate]

55. Sounds like nit-picking at a generalization to me.

--imm

[pnwmom]

56. It's not nit-picking to point out that Bernie seems to have a blind spot

when thinking about workers. They aren't all white -- and most of the minority workers support Hillary.

[immoderate]

57. Bernie doesn't think all workers are white.

But you might work yourself into thinking that, that is so. But it's not.

--imm

[pnwmom]

58. He must have been thinking that when he said this:

"And a party which incredibly is allowing a right-wing extremist Republican Party to capture the votes of the majority of working people in this country.”'

It's the only way to make sense out of that statement -- because minority working voters aren't being captured by the Rethugs.

[immoderate]

59. Well, I don't think he anticipated this level of equivocation.

Otherwise he would have chosen his language more circumspectly.

--imm

[pnwmom]

66. Equivocation? You mean, attentive reading? n/t

[immoderate]

78. Yeah, reading things that aren't there.

--imm

[LanternWaste]

90. Ah, 'inference!' A valid literary method of both communicating and understanding

Ah, 'inference!' A valid literary (and scientific, as well) method of both communicating and understanding, though often used as a pejorative by those lacking any substantive arguments.

[immoderate]

91. Can things be inferred that were not implied?

While the method may be valid, the inference could be erroneous, right?

--imm

[LanternWaste]

89. I too, used to imply that 'clear, concise language' is simply a tactic.

I too, used to imply that 'clear, concise language' is simply a tactic.

[JI7]

61. he has shiity advisors.

[Number23]

69. Read Josh Marshall at TPM. It's not Bernie's advisors that are the problem

I thought the same thing for months, that Bernie just had a shit campaign staff, but Marshall's piece, aptly titled "It Comes From the Top" has put an end to that.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/it-comes-from-the-very-top

[rbrnmw]

71. I really thought he was getting advice from Weaver

WOW

[Number23]

73. I thought the same thing. That he was a great guy just getting bad advice

Now it appears that Sanders himself is behind alot of the rancor that has emerged recently. It's incredibly disappointing.

[rbrnmw]

74. I started out a supporter last Summer

i am glad he pissed me off in July last year. I wouldn't want to be associated with that whole mess,

[Recursion]

86. Yeah, the TPM piece really troubled me

I also thought he was a more or less good guy being badly managed, and that really raised a lot of questions for me.

[fleabiscuit]

80. Wow. There's no doubt in my mind it's absolutely correct.

Demagoguery is what he offers with no substance.

[JI7]

82. i still wonder if it's lack of good advisors, his campaign is full of people who hate clinton

and it's probably gotten to him . i will watch to see what he does once the primary is over. i do know he hasn't had a good history of working with others based on the lack of endorsements. so his personality type along with bad people around him will not result in something good.

i'm pretty much ready for this whole thing to be over .

[RepubliCON-Watch]

76. I don't see nor do I even hear of any quotes or suggestions that Bernie did as such.

I'm sorry but if anyone has equated working class people to whites, it's most certainly the Clintons. 2008 was a great example of that.
[link:

|

[lovemydog]

81. It's 2016.

Have you read the original post in this thread?

Do you have a comment on it?

Have you read all the posts in this thread? There's some excellent comments.

What are your thoughts about any of them?

[ismnotwasm]

87. Sanders is attempting to run a very specific "revolution"

His own words:

Not long after the showdown with Vitter, I sit with Sanders on a couch in Harry Reid’s foyer outside the Senate floor to discuss his highly specific vision for the Left. In recent months, Sanders has indicated he’s willing to use his fire-and-brimstone act not simply to influence a presidential election, but also to lay the groundwork for something of a "political revolution." "Let me ask you," he says, his gangly frame struggling to contain itself to our couch, "what is the largest voting bloc in America? Is it gay people? No. Is it African-Americans? No. Hispanics? No. What?" Answer: "White working-class people." Bring them back into the liberal fold, he figures, and you’ve got your revolution.

http://www.progressivesforobama.net/?p=458

He is demonstratively mono-focused on economics and will always lack the deeper implications of racism, especially of the institutional variety. From what I understand, he simply believes racism will be overcome by economic parity. Which is problematic for two reasons, one; economic parity cannot be obtained without social justice in a country as large and diverse as the United States of America, two; economic parity does not guarantee social justice, nor does it eradicate racism.

One might examine the racial tensions left in the oft referred country of Denmark, or perhaps look at the plight of NA's in Canada as examples

[bettyellen]

93. White working class people were away us is target.....

This is part of the reason many have an aversion to "wedge issues". Fuck them all.

[Tarheel_Dem]

95. BS' constant derision of "identity politics" wasn't a dogwhistle, it was a foghorn. I've known....

all along exactly what he was saying, because he usually invoked "identitity politics" after Hillary crushed his ass by 50 or 60 points with AA voters.

[YoungDemCA]

97. Weird, I could have sworn that most working class Americans vote D

Including white ones (although granted, not at nearly the same rate as working class Black, Latino, and other voters of color.)

The thing that Sanders and his many of supporters either don't seem to understand or are, worse, willfully ignorant of is that in the year 2016, the vast majority of working class voters who vote Republican - hell, the vast majority of Republican voters, period - are a lost cause. Anyone who would even consider voting for a Republican candidate in 2016 - after the painfully catastrophic George W. Bush years, after the rise of Tea Party fanaticism within the GOP and the utterly insane mixture of racism, misogyny, homophobia, xenophobia, and other forms of vile bigotry that has been the norm in the Republican Party for quite some time now - is not someone that is at all likely to vote for any Democrat, unless it was literally Donald Trump (with the exact same campaign rhetoric and platform) running in the Democratic primaries; and even then, many Republican voters would still not vote for a dreaded DemocRAT.

The only way in which Democrats win any significant number of these voters is to literally co-opt Trump's message, and all of the illiberal and vile shit that comes with his message. Well excuse me for saying that I'll pass on that.