African American
Related: About this forumWhen Whites Just Don’t Get It, Part 6
LETS start with a quiz. When researchers sent young whites and blacks out to interview for low-wage jobs in New York City armed with equivalent résumés, the result was:
A) Whites and blacks were hired at similar rates.
B) Blacks had a modest edge because of affirmative action.
C) Whites were twice as likely to get callbacks.
The answer is C, and a black applicant with a clean criminal record did no better than a white applicant who was said to have just been released from 18 months in prison.
A majority of whites believe that job opportunities are equal for whites and blacks, according to a PBS poll, but rigorous studies show that just isnt so.
Back in 2014, I did a series of columns called When Whites Just Dont Get It to draw attention to inequities, and Im revisiting it because public attention to racial disparities seems to be flagging even as the issues are as grave as ever.
But let me first address some reproaches Ive received from indignant whites, including the very common: You would never write a column about blacks not getting it, and its racist to pick on whites. Its true that I would be wary as a white person of lecturing to blacks about race, but plenty of black leaders (including President Obama) have bluntly spoken about shortcomings in the black community.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/03/opinion/sunday/when-whites-just-dont-get-it-part-6.html
Response to MrScorpio (Original post)
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Iris
(15,652 posts)Response to Iris (Reply #2)
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Iris
(15,652 posts)MrScorpio
(73,630 posts)Response to MrScorpio (Reply #4)
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Iris
(15,652 posts)Response to Iris (Reply #6)
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BooScout
(10,406 posts)Rhiannon12866
(205,024 posts)If anyone got that from this OP, they're a lot more clairvoyant than I am...
BooScout
(10,406 posts)yardwork
(61,585 posts)Iris
(15,652 posts)yardwork
(61,585 posts)Iris
(15,652 posts)I wish there were an easy way way to alert MIRT
Rhiannon12866
(205,024 posts)Iris
(15,652 posts)Rhiannon12866
(205,024 posts)But MIRT is always watching...
Iris
(15,652 posts)Rhiannon12866
(205,024 posts)But this one raised red flags from the very beginning.
Response to MrScorpio (Original post)
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Iris
(15,652 posts)Thinking you know what I feel about you.
yardwork
(61,585 posts)That was awful.
Bernardo de La Paz
(48,984 posts)MrScorpio
(73,630 posts)And besides, what's stopping a new troll from messing up a new thread?
My only regret is that I didn't get to see what all the bigoted piece of shit had to say before he was MIRTed.
Bernardo de La Paz
(48,984 posts)Bernardo de La Paz
(48,984 posts)The more people, especially children, get to live with different people, the less importance the differences have in their minds.
Insular people who isolate their children in so many ways perpetuate the insidious nature of racism.
It is getting better over time, but it is taking much too long.
Response to Bernardo de La Paz (Reply #27)
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OneGrassRoot
(22,920 posts)Last edited Wed Apr 13, 2016, 08:41 AM - Edit history (4)
Actually, I fear there has been a significant regression over the last 8 years. In my experience there has. And in researching many organizations and businesses that I'd like to work with -- those with missions of empathy and diversity, etc., I'm amazed when I click on the "team" page to see mostly white faces. I'm noticing a distinct lack of integration, because I fear that, in general, PoC trusting white people has eroded to a great degree. While that saddens me, I get it. I totally get it.
Edit to add: Sorry I didn't include this instead of assuming it was a given, but here is my humble opinion: There is often a blindness on the part of many white people. The word diversity has been around so long that it seems to be taken for granted; not enough white people who are founders of organizations and businesses think to include PoC at the very foundational level of the venture. I certainly see businesses and organizations which are primarily populated by PoC (AA ventures, Hispanic ventures, Native American ventures) but what I don't see are more efforts at integration at the outset. And while I believe in many cases it's due to obliviousness when it comes to white people starting ventures (not reaching out to more PoC) -- or obviously bias or outright racism -- I believe it's largely lack of trust and safety on various levels when it comes to many PoC not having more diversity ventures. As I said regarding the latter, I totally get that.
But, what to do about it?
I also researched programs regarding empathy and diversity for early childhood, and all were based on the assumption that there was a supportive home environment. I believe very strongly that 1/4 to 1/3 of the US citizenry harbors a good deal of racist, bigoted, supremacist beliefs. When the parents don't want their kids playing with kids of another color, I was trying to find programs that provide these young children with tools to deal with it; tools that may help them help their parents have more empathy.
Nothing. I even wrote Jane Elliott who was kind to reply but was a wee bit disheartened and had no suggestions.
These views are often solidified by age 3, and we can't wait for kids to go off to college (not all go and not all move away to do so) to expand their horizons and worldviews. People are dying and suffering now, as you know, of course.
I'm trying to find a diverse grassroots team to join this white woman to brainstorm above the above.
Sorry for the ramble.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)I work for a major University that has both of those words in its values statement.
One day in a meeting the Director of a STEM Group established and new initiative focused on introducing STEM fields to elementary school youth. They called it, "SISTA". They were puzzled when the 3 African-Americans in the room (of 20) laughed to the point of crying.
Finally, the Director asked what we found so funny. One of the Black Senior Administrators responded by saying, "If you had a single African-American staff member, you would have selected a different name!", and then, began riffing on the name.
OneGrassRoot
(22,920 posts)Clueless.
I admit to being oblivious as to how bad it is. I assumed (yeah, my bad) that these organizations I held in such high esteem had diverse staff and membership.
I spent a solid weekend -- I mean like 25 hours -- a couple of months ago going through businesses, organizations and projects. When I saw their staff and boards were not remotely diverse (I mean, even organizations aimed at equality for women were run by white dudes!!!), I'd then check out their LinkedIn pages and groups, along with FB if they have them. I wanted to see if the membership was more diverse than leadership.
NOPE. I saw a sea of white faces. There may be other types of diversity but not racial diversity.
That explained why these same leadership people are so uncomfortable with me...feeling I'm too divisive by speaking of racism and bigotry -- systemically and in individual humans who perpetuate the friggin systems -- publicly.
It seriously stunned me when I learned I make so many people uncomfortable -- people who, to me, should be leading in these matters. It also proved to me that, without a doubt, if diversity isn't built into the core team and the foundation of any project or venture, it's not going to happen organically down the road as so many of them have assumed would happen.
If I were a PoC, I'd click away from anything that looked interesting or helpful if I didn't see people who likely reflect my experience more closely.
I click the "about" pages of every website and I, a white woman, click away when I don't see diversity now.
But that brings me back to the difficulty in creating truly diverse teams of people to lead a project before it ever gets off the ground.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)And starve to death, naked, in the street ... as there is no institution or industry that reflects the numbers in the population!
OneGrassRoot
(22,920 posts)That was a good dose of white privilege for me right there.
Seriously, thank you.
OneGrassRoot
(22,920 posts)fairly self-aware, but I find I'm clueless on a regular basis too.
(I didn't want to edit my other short reply, so I'm creating this new one.)
But truly, you have no idea how much that bonk on the head helped me shift my perspective a bit and offer an "aha" moment.
Very grateful for you today, Kind Sir!!!
brer cat
(24,544 posts)It happened over my lifetime. I attended all segregated schools until college, and then there were only few minorities. I was an adult before I knew a black person other than housekeepers. My granddaughters have always been in very diverse schools, and their closest friends are all black or Hispanic. They are 14 and 15, and occasionally ask us questions about racism because it is something they simply do not understand.
uponit7771
(90,323 posts)Scuba
(53,475 posts)... I have trouble believeing that's true as opposed to something they just say to pollsters. Or maybe they do "believe" that in the same way they "believe" Republican policies will make them millionaires some day.
Thanks for the thread Mr. Scorpio. Sorry about the troll who pooped on it.
Cosmocat
(14,560 posts)I have had too many go rounds with republican/conservatives.
Here is the thing about the republican party.
All human beings have biases of some kind.
Just part of being human.
But, what the republican party does is suck in people who have some tendency toward really wanting to believe their biases.
They then get caught into the "bubble" where you have:
1) tens of thousands of people who make money through radio, tv, books, the internet, forums, activist groups, etc who relentlessly foment these biases FOR PROFIT. They make a LOT of money telling people what they want to hear, over and over and over, with an endless stream of rationals to justify it.
2) Actual elected officials and a party that have refined an endless ways of advocating for subtly, and not so subtly, having their biases intermixed with government.
3) Both 1 & 2 actively portraying those who speak out against these biases as in fact being the boogyman.
Its like a drug addiction, seriously.
Only worse in that the whole thing is couched in a way to make them feel like both victims AND great patriots.
It's sadly, a losing battle.
Too much to work against.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)Rather than jobs as servers and salespeople (which seemed to be the focus of this study).
Would the results be any different if the experiment focussed on applications for jobs in education or other fields that have a more explicit commitment to diversity in hiring?
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)though we are working on it.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)I would hope that the situation would at least be a little better in academia.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)some Colleges within the University do better than others, in terms of hiring.
Ironically, we recently settled (at the institution level) a case of race and gender discrimination against a faculty member/Department Chair ... in the School of Social and Behavioral Science ... While having a STEM Department Chair, who scrapped a recruitment and started over BECAUSE the applicant pool lacked diversity.
Jackie Wilson Said
(4,176 posts)But they will pretend to.
I am not saying who, but we know it be true.
Trust me, if there is a category where it can be shown ANY preference is given to non whites, you will know about it and never hear the end of it.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Martin Eden
(12,858 posts)... it's because young blacks are ill-educated and have tattoos on their foreheads.
brer cat
(24,544 posts)K&R for an important thread!
ismnotwasm
(41,971 posts)Jackie Wilson Said
(4,176 posts)sexual identity/orientation, but it is done ALL the time, ALL the time!
Now it is equally likely that some minority business owners practice the same discrimination but not for racist reasons, instead for self survival, in that communities need to hire within to some extent so the community can prosper.
There is simply no way, most of the time, to prove why you chose one person over another when the qualifications and backgrounds are similar.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)In discussions of Affirmative Action, it all comes out. Affirmative Action is designed to be (but not always practiced as) a "tie-breaker" between "minority" and majority candidates, i.e., when 2 or more candidates are similarly qualified, the under-represented class member gets the job.
But those arguing against Affirmative Action do not hear themselves arguing: when 2 or more candidates are similarly qualified, the majority class member gets the job.