This message was self-deleted by its author

[bravenak]

This message was self-deleted by its author (bravenak) on Wed Mar 8, 2017, 09:06 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[steve2470]

1. I don't know what you're referring to...

You've been under digital assault on DU for months, never mind the horrible letter sent to you. Whatever you said, I'm cool with you.

[Chitown Kev]

2. Yeah, that anger thing is a tough one

and in that respect, we have all been in your shoes of not practicing restraint of tongue, pen, and send buttons.

Sounds like you found the right words to me.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

3. My dear bravenak...

[Number23]

4. I understand the anger, but not the way that it was expressed

And I share your frustration and rage at the way our community has been maligned by people who love to pat themselves on the backs the hardest with how "liberal" they are.

Girl, they have never been worthy of your attention and they are even less worthy of your time.

I know that an apology is not enough for many, but I hope it will help begin the process of mending fences.

Operating on the assumption that these are people who want the fences to be mended or, more importantly, that anyone in this forum would want to be "mended" with, of course. I have seen the folks racing around posting your comments in completely unrelated threads or creating OPs about your comments and they are not individuals that I have even the tiniest, most microscopic interest in even having a 2 sentence conversation with, let alone stand shoulder to shoulder with on any issue.

But I understand that your words have actually hurt people and I hope that your obviously heartfelt apology allows you and THEM -- the people who were actually hurt by your words and are not the ones using them as part of the never ending campaign to run you off of DU -- to begin to heal and mend fences.

Peace to you, bravenak. I hope that you can take something from this and become even more fabulous than you are now.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

17. Precisely...

"... I have even the tiniest, most microscopic interest in even having a 2 sentence conversation with, let alone stand shoulder to shoulder with on any issue. "

[In_The_Wind]

5. bravenak

[Spitfire of ATJ]

6. It was unexpected from someone of your stature.

[Cha]

7. Oh dear, I have no idea about why you're giving such a heartfelt apology, brave..

but, it makes me sad that you're in such pain. Healing Thoughts for you and your friends.

[skepticscott]

34. Since you and others are wondering...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511533345

http://www.dailykos.com/comments/1497565/60165323#comment_60165323

And to repeat from the link:

(Note to Jurors: Posting the writings of DUers from other places on the Web is not a violation of either the Terms of Service or the Community Standards of DU. It happens here fairly frequently -- essays by William Rivers Pitt on Truthout; writings by Steven Leser from 2008 which are on a very long thread here; posts which DUers or ex-DUers have posted on other sites; even earlier DU posts from DUers, such as comments during the 2008 election campaign, etc.)

[Cha]

35. I didn't say I needed to know.. I don't care.. the important thing is her apology.

[skepticscott]

36. Context always matters

Otherwise the apology is not truly meaningful to those reading it.

[Cha]

39. I don't care about your "context".

[bravenak]

40. I am so sorry they are bugging you about me

Please ignore him. Hopefully a host can clean up my mess tomorrow. I feel so bad.

[Cha]

44. no worries about me, brave~

I know how they are.. they think they smell blood in water so they're circling ..

[skepticscott]

41. It's not my context

it's bravenak's. These are all her own words.

You can't care about the apology if you don't care what motivated it.

[Cha]

178. You can't come in here and tell me what I can or cannot do. That's my decision.

As far as what Brave said I have read it since.. but, it wasn't your business.

I didn't want to make her feel any worse than she obviously already was.

[bravenak]

38. Why not do this in the gd thread I posted?

Please leave my friends be. Come at me, she did nothing wrong. I am the bad guy here, not her.

[skepticscott]

43. Done

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027698667#post11

Though it does make me wonder why you didn't post the context yourself, since clearly even the people who know you were not aware what you were referring to. There should be nothing wrong with owning your own words if you're actually apologizing for them, right?

[bravenak]

46. I am too ashamed to repost what I wrote

Now please. Just go.

[skepticscott]

51. As well you might be

Given that your credibility in accusing others of racism is pretty much shot. And that you will probably try to have me banned from this group for linking to your own words.

Glass houses, bravenak.

[bravenak]

57. Oh no

I can still point it out. Regardless of my flaws, there are still dragons to kill. People who refuse to reflect. I give no shits what most think about my credibility round here after they run around to defend racist shit without apologizing. I feel bad. But I refuse to let this be the reason I sit down and shut up in the face of future bullshit.

Now. Take yourself off to where ever you usually are and stop disrupting the AA group. I know my shit stinks, do you smell yours?

[skepticscott]

79. My shit doesn't stink like this, bravenak

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511533345

Never has, never will. So don't waste your time trying to deflect this to me.

It's one thing to have thoughts...everyone has thoughts they're not proud of sometimes. But you proudly and unashamedly put your racist thoughts to the page, and tried to sway as many other people as possible to your way of thinking, which is a whole new level of racism.

And no, I'm sure you won't shut up. But if you think this is go to go away or be forgotten just because of your "apology", you're very much mistaken. I have no doubt that you will be reminded of your own deep-seeded racism every time you try to accuse someone else of the same.

[leftofcool]

80. I bet you never said this to WillyT!

[bravenak]

87. Oh hell no

Willyt was the best. He was only talking about blacks, so that's cool.

[skepticscott]

90. There are a lot of racists

that I haven't had time to pay attention to or criticize. I suspect the same is true of you. This thread isn't about them.

[bravenak]

91. The thread is not about them

They do not apologize. You are just enjoying this way too much to be sincere.

[skepticscott]

101. I believe everything I've posted here

Calling me a liar because you have nothing else doesn't change that.

[JustAnotherGen]

118. Group Host - Blocked

In the discussion thread: An apology [View all]
Response to bravenak (Reply #91)Sun Mar 20, 2016, 11:33 AM
Star Member skepticscott (12,352 posts)
101. I believe everything I've posted here

Calling me a liar because you have nothing else doesn't change that.
I'm not going to censor myself to comfort your ignorance

[Kalidurga]

202. Thank you

I would suggest other actions as well. I rarely come here. But, when I do I see pile on after pile on-on a few posters and I think we all know who gets the most piled on.

[Jackie Wilson Said]

100. Convenient, I see.

[betsuni]

97. HA! Exactly.

[bravenak]

88. Take yourself back to your buds and leave the AA group alone, Scott

You had your say now bye

[ismnotwasm]

123. Jesus.

Last edited Sun Mar 20, 2016, 02:12 PM - Edit history (2)

As you talking about "reverse racism" again? IT DOESN'T EXIST. If you a religious skeptic, put reverse racism, or any other kind of made up racism, "new level" or not, right up there with the tooth fairy.

Else, her comment, her single comment, doesn't rise to the level of the pressure from overt and soul-killing racism I've seen on this website, Recommend by people you would think know better. The search function works for anyone who posts here. Stones and glass houses abound. Keep throwing those rocks. Bravenek, true to her name, apologized. I don't hold my breath waiting for an apology from the hundreds of people who recommended either Stockholm syndrome posts, or any of the other sketchy underhanded nasty racist posts I've seen.

[UtahLib]

126. +1,000,000

[Starry Messenger]

130. +1000

[Number23]

147. To quote the words of the immortal Outkast

I know you like to think your sh*t don't stank
But lean a little bit closer and see
Roses really smell like boo boo

Very true words. And they definitely apply to you and your behavior in this thread and forum.

[Coolest Ranger]

58. She's asking you to go now just go

would a host do their duty and block this person from the group

[tblue37]

168. People need to back off and cut you a break. Everybody makes mistakes. There is no

need to keep poking at you on a thread where you are attempting to apologize. It's like kicking someone when they are down.

I hope you feel better tomorrow, bravenak.

[JustAnotherGen]

117. Group Host - Blocked

k to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink Super powers
Response to Cha (Reply #7)Sun Mar 20, 2016, 08:16 AM
Star Member skepticscott (12,352 posts)
34. Since you and others are wondering...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511533345

http://www.dailykos.com/comments/1497565/60165323#comment_60165323

And to repeat from the link:

(Note to Jurors: Posting the writings of DUers from other places on the Web is not a violation of either the Terms of Service or the Community Standards of DU. It happens here fairly frequently -- essays by William Rivers Pitt on Truthout; writings by Steven Leser from 2008 which are on a very long thread here; posts which DUers or ex-DUers have posted on other sites; even earlier DU posts from DUers, such as comments during the 2008 election campaign, etc.)

[Number23]

148. Awww... you even used the exact same disclaimer that another of bravenak's stalkers used!!

This doesn't in any way show that this is a coordinated campaign to get her removed from the site. No, not at all.

[NBachers]

8. As we all continue to grow, to learn, and to evolve together . . .

[Samantha]

9. Politics can bring out the best and the worst in us all

Sometimes we just need to sit back and look at the bigger picture.

Sam

[joshcryer]

10. Apology accepted.

Still quite painful what was said in those angry threads brought on by complete ugliness, but I accept the apology because I believe you're sincere.

That you're apologizing rather than hiding from it speaks volumes about your character, even though I know that the vast majority of people coming at you for those comments will never accept it, and will continue the campaign against you. But that speaks more to their character than it does yours.

[Jackie Wilson Said]

102. I am not jewish, but I suspect actual jewish folks will be the first to forgive her, given

like black people in America, jewish folks have been on the receiving end of hate from the same groups black people have.

I wouldnt be surprised if the most upset about her comments arent even jewish folks.

Maybe not, dont know, but it sure is easy to attack this woman for her passions. She was way off with those comments, for sure, but apologies are just that, time to accept it and hold her to it and move on.

She will be stronger for seeing her mistake, we all are stronger for being passionate with a conscience. We are different from that other side, aka GOP.

remember that

[The Roux Comes First]

201. Thanks for Your Words and Cryers' Just Before You

We all ought to be inspired by Bravenak's willingness to own her words and mistakes and sincerely apologize for them. And maybe to hold back just a bit before clicking on "send," especially during a political season that is hysterically (and morbidly) full of fear-mongering, hatred, and constant violations of virtually all of the rules of civility. Admittedly something like 95 percent of those come from that circus across the way. This heart-felt apology evokes the "brave" in her moniker and is a quality that is frighteningly rare in our ever-so-error-prone species and greatly to be admired. Emulated even, if you have the guts!

[CoffeeCat]

11. I think it's important to remember

to keep things in perspective.

Your friends. Your family. The dishes that need doing. The coffee you drink in the morning. That's real life. That's worth getting worked up over.

This. This is not.

Perspective. It will give you peace.

[tblue37]

169. Well put! Listen to CoffeeCat, bravenak. You will feel better if you do. nt

[JI7]

12. thank you for this but the ones going after you for this include people who have said and defended

many bigoted things so you are not responsible for their behavior.

but i'm glad you recognize how wrong your own comments were and apologized for it.

[Number23]

15. I and many, MANY others have noted that exact same thing

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1187&pid=46502

Gotta love the "never seen a racist OP I didn't rec or a black poster I didn't chase after but that bravenak is the WORST!11one" and "I've been on eight time outs and can't vote in juries but OMG bravenak is SUCH a horrible DUER!11" clubs.

One person has posted bravenak's comments easily 10 times on the boards today, including at least two different OPs. That is definitely the work of someone with a healthy perspective and full and satisfying life.

[joshcryer]

21. Yeah

And a banned racist troll maintains kudos posts by the same people oh so offended by someone saying something they probably didn't mean out of rage (remember, this was when bravenak was getting timed out regularly and if you look at her transparency page there's literally nothing there hideworthy, at least I have drunk posts I wish I self-deleted; thought I did on one of them).

[ismnotwasm]

145. Exactly

Exactly

[Number23]

149. Exactly. And actually came in here to say that "their shit don't stink" like bravenak's when they

are smelling up the whole damn Internet.

I can't tell if this shit is just rank hypocrisy or much, much worse. If these people had a history of really speaking out when blatant racists were getting kicked and rec'd to the hills, that would be one thing. But instead this is the crowd that RALLIES to the sides of the biggest racists here and has been trying to get bravenak kicked off of DU every since she started calling Bernie Sanders out on his shit.

I guess we're all just supposed to see this as just a remarkable coincidence that the only fucking time they have EVER cared about racism here is when it can be used to justify kicking an outspoken black, female poster from this web site. When it came from the mouths and fingers of white folks, "oh they're not really racists" or something.

[Cha]

20. Very important point, JI7, Mahalo.

They're not blameless but act like they are.

I just read what brave's, from her heart, apology is for..

[mcar]

95. And I don't recall seeing their apologies

[Jackie Wilson Said]

103. Uh, duh. Just thought of that, not only no apologies but you can count on dozens of

rec's for the ugliest shit.

[mcar]

106. Oh yeah

Double standards much?

[Jackie Wilson Said]

107. Welcome to America. Two black guys, not very bright, show up in black garb and guns at a polling

place and all of a sudden there is a new black panther party with thousands of dangerous members.

etc

etc

etc

[mcar]

110. ..

[lovemydog]

13. Accepted.

I think you found the right words.

Please don't be too tough on yourself. We all say stuff we regret from time to time. I'm grateful for your honesty.

[chwaliszewski]

14. I don't know what was said...

nor do I need to know. But, kudos for your humility. I'll be glad when election season is over and we can get back to more important matters, like football.

[JustAnotherGen]

16. I've got to play catch up

Whatever is being posted or has been - I haven't seen. There's a good chance it's a keyword I have trashed or one of the now 23 people I have on ignore. If I've blocked the person from this Group I can't see what they post. After a pm from one another person blocked - that person is on block too.

[Control-Z]

19. I'm always last to know what has transpired around here.

I'm probably better off not knowing. What little I do know about the way Bravernak has been treated in the past has infuriated me.

[Surya Gayatri]

18. .../...

Don't know what the apology is in reference to, but for me, your good faith and sincerity are manifest.

All of us suffer from "foot-in-mouth" disease at some point, but that makes us no less human.

[Cha]

22. Makes us more human.. especially when we aplogize so sincerely..

Mahalo, Surya~

[Surya Gayatri]

23. Yes, even more human...

I distrust people who can NEVER say "I screwed up"...including Sen. Bernie Sanders.

I've never heard him retract, repudiate, or recant any of the dubious statements he's made over his long career. Doctrinaire people often have this rigid personality trait.

[Cha]

24. Yeah, scary rigid.

[brer cat]

25. You have been terribly abused around here

for a long time. Your friends, and we are legion, understand the anger and know what is in your heart. You did find the words, and people can chose to accept your apology or not...but that is on them not you.

[Loki]

26. It is very difficult not to react with anger when provoked

by those who do so only to elicit that response. I don't know of anyone who doesn't struggle with that, and you are not alone. Stay strong, we have your back and this too shall pass.

[Starry Messenger]

27. ((hugs))

I missed everything.

[Orrex]

29. Is this about your prediction that "Dawn of Justice" will suck?

If so, all is forgiven.

[femmedem]

30. A learning moment for sure.

One thing that would make your apology resonate more for me: if your apology was directed more to the Jewish members of this board than to the AA group. Half my family is Jewish, and I wonder why you are more sorry for the hurt you caused AA members than for the people you targeted with hate.

For perspective, if WillyT had apologized to the Bernie supporters but not directly to the AA members, I don't think you would find it fully acceptable.

I do appreciate the sincerity of your apology, though.

[bravenak]

31. It is also in gd

I do not know every members family histor so I put it in gd. I did send out apologies to my jewish friends on the board personally, just in case they are not here everyday, I do not want them to hear it second hand.

Had willyt not doubled down I'd say nothing. We were friendly in messaging even after the first and second times he posted it. Even while we fought in public.

[femmedem]

32. Thank you. I hadn't seen it there. n/t

[bravenak]

45. You are making me even sicker. Please go away

Mirt. Please ban this racist antisemetic asshole before I rip my face off. I feel bad enough without having terrorists trying to make friends with me. I do not want to be in your group. I'd rather GROVEL.

I would post the excerpt, but damn. It's a thousand times worse than anything a du member could even think up.

[bravenak]

48. Why? Why are you doing this?

You have to right to come spew even more bile. I have done enough harm this day and you can fuck right the fuck off back to your KKK group. Fuck you. Fuck you fuck you fuck you. Fucking trying to make friends with me? Fuck you you piece of shit!

[PeaceNikki]

49. I was just on the jury. Don't let a troll get in your head.

[bravenak]

52. Is he gone?

Has me crying. I'm logging out. It thinks I'm just like him.

[PeaceNikki]

53. Yes.

[sheshe2]

166. I am way behind.

Missed all of this, just got home from work.

Don't cry bravenak, please don't. I only briefly skimmed what you posted. I know, you posted in anger, we all need to step back at those times. I have done it myself, many of us have. Yet you owned it and apologized for it with eloquence. I seldom see anyone else do that here.

Those that care for you know what has happened to you here and out right stalking to your own home. I myself would be at my wits end.

I stand for you bravenak, next time just back away from the computer quietly and go hug your children, the anger will ease then.

[Cha]

55. Mahalo PeaceNikki! Troll in Troll OUT!

[bravenak]

59. One of the fucking worst ones today

[Cha]

61. I'm so sorry, brave.. they have some fucking nerve.. you apologize for your

mistakes but they never do. This too shall pass.

[bravenak]

63. Meh. I only care that I hurt people

The other stuff? Fuck it. They woukda found something else to hate me for. But there are people here, maybe that I have not interacted (and others who I love) with, but who read my words and , who I am sure were hurt. That hurts me. The swarm is gonna swarm. I can only do what I think is the right thing. I can take the flack better knowing that I tried my best to be better. Do better.

[Cha]

85. That's the Spirit.. Sing it Jimmy!

We're human beings we make mistakes.. it takes a person who cares about rising above that to give an apology like yours

[rgbecker]

56. I was on the jury and suddenly the posts were removed before I could summit my verdict.

I wonder if you could post the results of the jury's decision please.

Maybe there is some explanation that explains this. Can posts be removed unilaterally by monitors without going to jury?

Just wondering.

[PeaceNikki]

62. There were two posts. Both were alerted on. You probably were on the jury for the second.

I think the jury on the first came back while the jury on the second was still out. Since it was 7-0, the user was automatically banned.




Ah yes, of course, so that's what this is about
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1187&pid=46568

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

I feel bad enough. This terrorist is trying to make friends with me. Just ban him, I cannot take this shit. Fucking has me in tears.

JURY RESULTS

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Mar 20, 2016, 08:48 AM, and the Jury voted 7-0 to HIDE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: This post belongs to a site for people who enjoy being antisemites: poster should consider joining the KKK, Stormfront or radical Islam.
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: I agree that this poster does not belong on DU. Hate speech, especially this Nazi dogma, is not welcome here.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Wow. This is horrendous. What brave said was not cool, but it was in the heat of the moment and she feels very sorry for it. This reply is disgusting and obviously indicative of a very deep seated hate.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: this is really beyond the pale
hide
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: WTF? International Jewish conspiracy stuff? This does not belong on DU.

[femmedem]

66. I alerted on that crap and I suspect you did, too.

I don't think our guest will be here for long.

[bravenak]

69. It's the same one. This is my fault in a way

Now I have terrorists wanting to be my bff. What shit. I feel like shit.

[femmedem]

72. Not your fault. That's that troll's fault.

He was looking for any excuse to spew hate.

[bravenak]

73. Ok

I should not have let him make me cry. I am strong. Watch. From now on, I am being strong.

[PeaceNikki]

74. You *are* strong.

Even strong women have moments of weakness. It's OK, because you're human.

[bravenak]

75. Thank you

If that asshole signs back up tho, I'm outta here for the day. Cannot read anymore of that crap today.

[PeaceNikki]

76. I'm so sorry for that.

It will likely happen again. You'll also have a group of people who will continue to hold this over your head. They are not able to move on. Be strong and don't let them break you again. They aren't worth it.

[femmedem]

77. Nothing wrong with a good cry.

And I know you will be strong. It takes strength to apologize. Just like it takes strength to feel pain enough to cry when you've done something you regret.

I think this will be a life-changing event for you, that you'll be better able to argue for justice now, with compassion and without cyberbullying towards people whose ideas and hearts you hope to change.

[bravenak]

68. Go the fuck away!!

[bravenak]

71. I do not care if he was trying to shame me

Now go the fuck away

[ismnotwasm]

121. Oh THOSE assholes

This will be a flypaper thread to them.

[bravenak]

128. God yes

I gave gd all the time they get, now.

[UtahLib]

134. So glad to hear this, Bravenak.

Arguing with or attempting to placate those whose opinions hold no value whatsoever is a waste of precious energy.

[bravenak]

136. I really don't care what they think

I have spent way more time here than I intended, I used to post rarely. I have too much to do to keep going around about the same things. This primary was stupid. I think it was the fact that we had a strong candidate and a weak one, and he did better than expected. I get that people were sure he was going to Obama his way past her, and take it personally when their candidate loses, but it has gotten stupid. People making files on people to stop them from Criticizing. People swarming politicians and activists. Just so ridiculous and just needs to be done. Nobody can win with those tactics. Ever.

Nothing I coukd possibly say would matter to most because it is about their wants and crushed dreams of revolution. They need a scapegoat. I still say that people should fill their ignore lists up from there.

[UtahLib]

138. Yes

We Democrats should be coming together rather than refusing to cross battle lines that have been drawn by supporters on one side or the other. A major obstacle to unity may be that we find ourselves combating forces who, by their own admission, have turned their backs on the Democratic process.

[UtahLib]

141. I see you got a hide on the GD thread

for giving a named removed exactly what it deserved and a poster heralding that as proof of something or other. Like I said: ignore the agenda driven. They are not worth it.

[bravenak]

143. Probably have the poster on ignore

I have ni idea what that hidden post proves. I have the screenshot if the post I replied to and take my hide as a badge of honor on that one.

[UtahLib]

146. By smugly insinuating that hide justifies

their harassment of you, they've only succeeded in shining a bright light on themselves and their agenda.

[ismnotwasm]

165. Indeed

A very bright light and the results are not pretty.

[DemonGoddess]

33. K&R!

You know, I've seen you post impassioned topics and responses. Just like many others. It takes a big person to be able to look at something, say they are at fault (even though I think you're not), and apologize for it.

You're a wonderful person brave! Don't ever let anyone say or insinuate differently!

[stonecutter357]

37. I proudly stand with bravenak.

[Coolest Ranger]

54. I don't know why you are apologizing

but I admire your voice and your style keep on keeping on

[marble falls]

60. Bravenak, I know what you've been facing here, what you said doesn't bother me but ...

you had to face to get to that point does bother me. You've done nothing wrong in my book. You were standing up for yourself.

[betsuni]

78. I think it's creepy the number of times one comment from you on a different site has

been posted on DU. Has that ever happened before to anyone else? In your post you were discussing "comments here" -- on that particular website, and you were angry. You're like a Hillary-hate substitute: take one thing she said that one time and no matter how many times she apologizes, make it out to be the worst thing in the world, unforgivable, heinous, evil. Hypocrites. Far worse ugly things have been said right here on DU, plenty of them, and no apologies, only gaslighting and insults and excuses.

Someone mistreats me or people I like, I will return the favor. I'm not a monument to justice. I hold grudges that go back decades (mostly because people who were wrong refuse to apologize). Revenge is very very good.

[PeaceNikki]

81. I think they're lashing out and blaming her for WillyT's banning.

It's gotten pathological and obsessive.

[bravenak]

82. It only happens to me I think

Higher standards. I think it might be good for me to keep myself to my standards. Look at them. So happy. Shows how shallow.

[PeaceNikki]

86. That's all you can do is control how you react.

It's going to be very tough at times. But you can do it.

[KitSileya]

104. They say women have to do what men do, only backwards and in high heels.

Well, if that is the case, black women have to do it backwards, in high heels, at the edge of a cliff. Women of color who happen to be LGBQ have to do it backwards, on stilts at the edge of a cliff, and women of color who are trans, have to do it backwards at the edge of a cliff, on stilts and blindfolded. That's how the standards are.

So I think you are right to reject their standards, and keep to your own. It is very brave of you to offer this apology, on a site that has hounded you so much, and who still does. I admire you for that. Thank you for your example.

[Jackie Wilson Said]

108. And if you make a mistake, all black people, especially black women, are held accountable.

[KitSileya]

115. Amen!

Isn't that the case for all minorities? Only white men get to make mistakes on their own - and in many cases they don't even have to apologize to those they harm. Case in point: ghetto, low information voters, the Confederacy.

[Number23]

150. Exactly. Ain't that some shit? That's the thing about all of this that makes me want to scream

That somehow, it's the entire AA forum's "responsibility" to atone and/or apologize for something bravenak said or did. That every black poster here is responsible for what one black member wrote away from DU.

Even when these people are screaming about racism, they still show the most fundamental racist behavior. It is nothing short of astonishing.

[Jackie Wilson Said]

116. Made me think of a funny. Seeing how they reacted (completely lost what little mind they had left)

when a black, straight christian male was elected president.

Wouldnt you like to see them if a black, gay, transgender, female was elected?

Who is a satanist?





p.s. a lot of the anger here at DU has to do with Obama, they wont admit it, but it does.

[KitSileya]

120. Yes. A there's a lot of ODS here, absolutely.

And a lot of the anger has to do with the two of them, Obama and Clinton. After running against each other, they found a working relationship and a friendship. Wanna bet that respect initially came from the shared understanding of being minorities in the world of white men? Obama has shown that he got it, with his comment about how Clinton had to do what he did, only also get her hair done etc. He sees how Michelle is judged, and Malia and Sasha. The Bush twins went out and got falling down drunk while under-age - Malia will be 18 this year, but she couldn't do that.

[bravenak]

127. I know who I am

Now they can leave you guys alone about my shit and enjoy themselves and revel in it. It really is amazing how much zeal some have. Note the hypocrisy. You can almost taste it it is so thick. Half of the recced willtys ops and here they are acting innocent. That part is priceless.

[KitSileya]

131. We will not leave you alone, dear bravenak.

You are one of us, and we will stand with you.

WillyT's OPs were racist. Period. And all who recced those threads support racism. There is not doubt about it. Such opinions have no place on a website that calls itself Democratic Underground. I have seen no apology threads from them. They should be ppr'ed too.

[bravenak]

132. I agree and they are the main ones acting stupid

It's getting pathetic how much attention they need.

[KitSileya]

133. Yes. No wonder the Republicans keep winning when our own put knives in our backs

And in our chests. It is obvious that it is more important to fight non-Bernie supporters than to fight Trump, Cruz, Kasich et. al. Their candidate is a good model there - always more interested in denouncing Democrats for not being pure enough than to work against Republicans. Which is why he doesn't have nearly any superdelegates, I guess.

[bravenak]

135. This is why I'm ready for the general

Been ready for months. I vote soon and I really Am not interested in the primary extending out forever. It also looks pretty much done, I wish we could stop the constant attacking Of Hillary here. It is in no way normal to have this much hatred towards one woman. Yeah, she makes mistakes, but damn, people act like she is evil. Scares me a bit. Once she wins we better have somewhere else to go, because after how much hate was piled on obama here, I think it will just be even worse with her. Makes no sense to keep dealing with people who are just angry and enjoy it.

I don't think I can spend eight years watching democrats say vile things about her while they right tried to take her down. It is like mind pollution.

[KitSileya]

137. That is very true.

I mean, we are trying to show that Bernie Sanders isn't the best choice for President because he lacks flexibility, experience, and is dismissive towards large parts of the core of hte Democratic party. They, on the other hand, are trying to show that Hillary is Satan incarnate. It's very disconcerting.

[ismnotwasm]

122. This, yes

The obsession with her is very, very creepy. It's hard to watch.

[Number23]

151. "Creepy" is an incredibly mild way to describe the endless obsession these people have with bravenak

They bring her up ALL OF THE TIME. They bring her up in threads that have NOTHING to do with her.

A while ago, one extra special person was going on about Oppression Olympics and I noted in the thread that anyone who brings up the phrase Oppression Olympics is basically showing you that they are not worth a second of your time.

You know how that person responded? By bringing up a bravenak post where she talked about Oppression Olympics! That person posted that link like it was the ULTIMATE fucking "gotcha!!". Like "Ha, Negress!! Surely you will change your mind now that I've exposed that bravenak has used that same phrase!!11one" All I could seriously do was shake my damn head, not only at how incredibly moronically stupid the "argument" was that somehow because bravenak said something that somehow negated my point but the fucking SPEED in which this person found that link. It's like they have a goddamned bravenak Excel spreadsheet for when they need to grab her posts on the double. It was so profoundly stupid and pathetic I can't really describe it properly.

I've gotten so many PMs now that there is a group on DU where damn near half the posts within it are about bravenak now. I guess when things aren't going the way you desperately hoped they would and you need an excuse, grab onto the first one you can get your hands on. And if that excuse happens to have melanin and ovaries, all the better, I guess.

[Logical]

154. "Revenge is very very good.", wow, classy. nt

[betsuni]

161. Smugness is not a good quality

"wow, classy"

[LanternWaste]

182. Almost as classy as your drive-by post lacking any substantive point.

Almost as classy as your drive-by post lacking any substantive point.

("substantive" being a mere three syllables seems a word you won't have to look up this time... because I care about the sub-literate)

[Logical]

184. Hey, my thesaurus fixated stalker! Never an original post but always whining! Nt

[greatauntoftriplets]

83. It takes courage to apologize.

[madaboutharry]

84. Well, this was an interesting way to start the day.

I think what is most important here is that Bravenak is able to understand that words have the power to be hurtful and that there is obviously a great deal of remorse over having hurt people's feelings. A lot of people, I think most people, would not only not apologize but wouldn't be able to understand or have empathy for how powerful words can be.

When stuff like this happens I just see it as an opportunity for people to gain something positive and then move on.

Bravenak contributes a lot to DU and I look forward to reading Bravnak's posts in the future.

[Cha]

89. That's a really nice post for bravenak... thank you, madaboutharry.

[bravenak]

94. Thank you. I appreciate it

[DonCoquixote]

160. considering how many out there

seem to want to take a god given right to piss people off and act like they are angels rather than boring scum, I will say that bravenak has shown herswelf head and shoulders over many at DU, period.

[SusanCalvin]

92. Oh, Brave, I am so sorry.

Of course your apology is accepted.

Man, I had a whole missive composed and accidentally touched the wrong place on the tablet.

Probably just as well - I'll just go with a hug, which I wish I could give you in person.

[bravenak]

93. Nice to see you!

[SusanCalvin]

96. Well, of course I'm here!

I'm sorry it happened, but I feel you lived up to your name. And of course I don't think you meant it.

Man, I did it again - meant to hit another hug, not post.

[still_one]

98. There are very few of us who have not said things in the heat of the moment we wish we had not.

It is the recognition of those insensitivities where we grow as a person.

Those who do not recognize those inadequacies do not live up to their highest potential.

I happen to be Jewish, and I will say this; bravenak has done the right thing in this thread, and I am proud of her.

[Kind of Blue]

99. Apologies go a long way with me.

It takes a strong person to apologize and I will not pile on anymore shame, because it does not define who you are

[stevil]

105. Hey Bravenak

I've shared a comment or two with you and am an admire your tenacity and sense of humor. I also read your stuff on another Democratic site. I was disappointed when heard about all this, I'm Jewish. BUT - I reflected and it was not too long ago I was in a similar situation after saying somethings in real life that were bigoted and hurtful. I was forgiven and actually made a friendship with the person that I offended. So FWIW, keep being yourself and you still have a fan who respects you for owning up to your words and living up to your username.

Steve

[Jackie Wilson Said]

109. This is how we grow, isnt it.

Now which group do we want to be in, the group that apologizes, learns and grows, or the group that doubles down and is proud of ignorance and hate?

I think I know, I can tell from your comment and others we are in the first group.

[stevil]

119. Yup

[MaggieD]

111. Nice apology

But uneccessary from my point of view. A person can only take so much BS before they can't take any more. It's all good.

[radical noodle]

113. Reality

I don't think there are many people who can honestly say they've never said hurtful things in the heat of anger... some of us to those we love rather than to an anonymous poster. The same people who are delighting in your pain are those who are guilty of silently (or perhaps not so silently) promoting hurtful things here. I know I often find myself biting my knuckles to keep from posting a quick, hateful reply to people (most of whom deserve it).

All you can do is apologize and try to not let it happen again. Those who love you and those who are decent people will accept your apology and move on from here. Those who don't are not worth knowing.

Some have been poking at AAs for months with ridiculous racist bullshit and now are just shocked that someone finally snapped.

Don't keep beating yourself up over this. Learn from this and go on to keep fighting the good fight.

[ismnotwasm]

114. K&R

[aikoaiko]

124. Your empathy is amazing. You're a generous person.

And you're passionate. The thing about passion is that the root meaning of the word is suffering (not love, as many people assume).

You've suffered and when people suffer they sometimes say or do things they regret.

I think your apology will resonate well with anyone who was hurt by your words, because it is authentic.

I've learned a lot from you and most of the other people in the AfAm group and I appreciate your presence and words. Even when I disagree.

[M0rpheus]

125. We're all flawed.

Sometimes, all you can do is acknowledge it and move forward.

What you said was pretty bad,.. What you're doing right now, is one of the reasons I appreciate you.

This will pass and, you will do better.



(I'll have the appropriate GIF later, when I'm on my real pc)

[DonCoquixote]

129. not that two wrong make a right, but

considering the outright intolerable. inexcusable, outright ficking foul stuff bravenak has been subjected to on this board, I would seriously be wary of anyone that used any slip up to demonize her. Come 5 to ten years from now, everybody on ALL sides will all have to explain to the kids how one of the more important elections in history was allowed to become less civilized than Professional Wrestling meets the Kardashians. Even if you are a very partisan Bernie or Hillary person, we need of focus on how to crush Trump. That does not mean anything about saying who should quit, especially as a lot can and may happen between now and the end of summer.

Let's be blunt, regardless of delegates, does anybody think that one of these GOP is either unwilling or unable to shoot someone, than claim to be yet another Lone Wolf that has seen barking in all the GOP Wolfpacks? They know they WON by shooting Gabbie Giffords, just like they WON, when Rev Clementa of Charleston was shot. As much as we like to think we have seen the worst, we Know that we might not have seen anything yet. So, how does this relate to bravenak? Simple, even if during the primary we are as brutal as Ali Vs Frazier, we will have to, not just want to, have to mend fences and work together to beat the GOP. Yes, words were said by all of us, yes, we all have a way that we want a demcoratic presidency to be that probably will not line up, but until, at the very least Citizens United (which both Hillary and Bernie want to get rid of) is dead, we will have to work together in the fall and winter. Life is NOT fair, but it beats being killed and eaten.

[Hekate]

139. I followed you home to make sure you were all right. I'm sorry some of the bullies are ...

... banging on the windows. It's making me tear up, Bravenak.

However, you are surrounded by friends from all over DU. Take that for what it is worth. We're all human, and we all sometimes screw up.

Here's the coffee I promised you.

[bravenak]

140. Thank you.

I see them knocking but I have no more time for them this day!

[Hekate]

142. This day has other things for you

Be at peace

[bravenak]

144. Yep

[Number23]

152. You did an apology thread in GDP too?? Do I even want to see it???

[SusanCalvin]

153. Apparently not.

(I just dipped a toe in. It didn't look pretty.)

[Hekate]

159. Don't go there. It's DU at its worst.

[PeaceNikki]

162. To be fair, there were some very gracious replies which were hidden among the filth.

[Hekate]

164. Well yes. "Garlic and sapphires in the mud." nt

[rock]

155. i. b. cool with it

[Quayblue]

156. I have an apology I have to make that's past due as well

I will do it today.

Thank you.

[The Polack MSgt]

158. Hey Bravenak

You don't need to apologize to me, but I appreciate your public apology.

I know my own temper so I can't condemn you.

Peace

[wildeyed]

163. Seems like you found some pretty good words to me.

[Number23]

167. Even though you'd self-deleted your thread in GD by the time I got there, I did see some of the

replies, including one from Amimnoch which provides alot of context for why you said what you said.

I still don't like what you said but the context puts everything in an entirely different angle. Which is probably why the context -- the nasty, racist crap you were responding to -- was removed in the first place and the ONLY thing that was ever posted here was your reply devoid of all context.

So to be honest, I'm pissed that I let these people make me think even for two seconds that you were anything less than your normal fabulous self. I should have known something was awry when all anybody here ever posted was your response but not so much as a single word of what you were responding TO. I was played and for that, I want to apologize to you.

[JI7]

171. i had an idea what it was about because anti semitism among the black community

has been regularly brought up by people here to to attack black people voting for Clinton. if they wanted a serious conversation about this they would bring up Jesse JAckson also who actually has made anti semitic comments. but because he isn't supporting Clinton and has been positive towards Sanders they wont make it an issue. which just shows all of this is just about the primary election for them .

the context which they left out makes those attacking her come off even worse. yes, she was wrong in the reply and should be above that and i'm glad she rightly apologized for it . but it's nothing like all the bigoted shit that has regularly been posted here which people are just ok with. she was responding to bigoted hateful attacks on her community .

and it says something about how sorry she is that she did not bring up the entire context herself to try to excuse what she said. she is able to see the wrong in it by itself. even if she was responding to far worse attacks on her.

and the thing is these fuckers attacking her are doing so because of that racist jackass being banned for actually posting racist shit because they are angry at black people voting for clinton.

i don't see much difference in how these "progressives" view the black community and other minorities from the way the right wing does.

[betsuni]

172. +1

[steve2470]

173. excellent points! nt

[Starry Messenger]

174. Outstanding post.

This.

[Digital Puppy]

175. Thanks you! n/t

[Number23]

185. As usual, you fucking nailed. You always fucking nail it

And you damn sure did so here.

and the thing is these fuckers attacking her are doing so because of that racist jackass being banned for actually posting racist shit because they are angry at black people voting for clinton.

Ain't nothing but the truth. And somehow, because some of us share bravenak's skin color, that somehow makes us guilty too and we are being demanded to "explain" and atone for her comments as if we all share the same fucking brain or something.

Even when these people are wailing about "racism", they still come across as racist as hell. You cannot make this shit up.

[Jackie Wilson Said]

186. I told you, two guys show up in black garb with guns at polling precincts and all of a sudden

the entire black community are black panthers.

Black Lives Matter marches in protest of being killed and they are violent, even when they haven't been even once, so all black people are violent.

Etc

[steve2470]

170. I've had time to think about your mistake, Bravenak

If you are still feeling badly tomorrow, maybe go visit the Jewish group and apologize there ? To me, that's the very LAST thing you should do but ONLY if you are still feeling poorly. You don't have to, of course, but just a thought.

Forgive yourself, Bravenak. We've all said things in real life and maybe on DU also that we've regretted. We're all a work in progress. At least you made a sincere and heartfelt apology. That puts you above and beyond your detractors, 99.999% of whom would never do the same in public.

You're a good person, Bravenak. Be kind to yourself.

[RepubliCON-Watch]

176. Now you're flagged for review???

As a Bernie supporter, I don't always agree with some of your post but I hope you get reinstated ASAP! We need you on here!

[lovemydog]

177. Anyone reading - please reinstate her.

Please read the threads here.

Please reinstate bravenak immediately.

Stop this racist online bullying now.

[SusanCalvin]

179. What? Why? I don't understand this "flagged for review" business. nt

[gollygee]

180. I imagine people still get flagged for review if they get a lot of hides

And she's being swarmed even more than usual.

Her one post was on another site and not DU, and she had a nice apology for it, and really it looked a lot worse to me when I saw it alone than when I saw the post she was replying to. I don't think she'll get banned for that. I'm hoping she'll be reinstated soon. It's so frustrating seeing people attacked the way AA DUers have been and are. I'm very glad the admins have seen what's happening and are making changes, so I guess things can improve around here.

I'm so ready for primary season to be over. I have not enjoyed this primary season at all. Some of the alert swarming will stop then, but I am afraid Bravenak and some other members of this group will always be targets.

[kcr]

183. Ridiculous. I hope so, too.

The posters calling for blood are the same ones defending racists. This was a targeted swarm. Hypocrisy in the extreme.

[wildeyed]

187. And those recent hides were

responding to horrible, disgusting posts by "name removed". So yeah, it would be nice if they could un-flag her.

[Gothmog]

181. I stand with Bravenak

Good apology

[Quayblue]

188. Kicked....

[ljm2002]

189. When are you going to apologize...

...to Jews in general and to Bernie Sanders and his supporters in particular? Apologizing to your supporters and compatriots because they might be tarred with the same brush, is not really the same thing as apologizing to those your hateful remarks were actually directed at.

I looked in GD but your apology there was self-deleted so I can't tell if that is what you did there -- I'll be honest, somehow I doubt it.

[PragmaticLiberal]

190. She did....

[ljm2002]

191. Link, please...

...because the apology in this thread is to the group. Oh, "it was wrong" and "it was hateful", sure; but where is the apology directly to Jewish people and to Bernie and his supporters -- the ones who were actually targeted by her hateful message?

BTW self-deleted posts don't count since we have no way to know what was in them.

[PragmaticLiberal]

192. I saw her self-deleted posts and I thought she was contrite.

Of course many Sanders supporters jumped on her and wouldn't accept her apology.

Personally, I think it was as much about who made those comments as the comments themselves.

Possibly why she just said "fuck it" and deleted it.

What bravenak said was admittedly horrible but with that being said many of the same folk (Sanders supporters) who wouldn't accept her apology are the same people who cheered on Wily T's racist posts (among others).

Basically, I think what bravenak said was uncalled for and some Sanders supporters are full of shit.

[ljm2002]

193. Well I did not see her self-deleted post...

...and I am unwilling to accept your word for what was in it.

She has never apologized TO THE PEOPLE SHE SAID SUCH UGLY THINGS ABOUT. She has said "oops, sorry" in a general way, she has apologized to her compatriots in this group, who she never insulted in the first place, but to Jewish people? Bernie Sanders? Bernie Sanders supporters? Nope, nope, and nope.

She deleted it because she couldn't take the heat? The single most grenade-throwing poster currently on DU, and that's saying something -- and she couldn't take it? That is known as being able to dish it out, but not being able to take it Deleting one's post... maybe she ought to change her name to cowardnak.

[JI7]

194. jewish people are the only ones she needs to apologize to

So far she is the only one. But all the racism from others is allowed and excused while attacking her for responding to racist attacks against her with something offensive.

[ljm2002]

195. Really?

Here is the quote:

I cannot stand him. His fans are racists who run around calling blacks racist and wonder why we hate him and them. I don't even LIKE Hillary but I will vote for her just so his fans can feel the sne BERN that they have been passing out.
Look at the racist comments here. I did not know jews hated us blacks so much. Good to know. I will return it in kind. There are so few of them It's a wonder they have the gall to think about being racist against blacks.

Bravenak, Frontpage Mag

By "him", I have to assume she means Bernie. By "his fans", ergo, she must mean Bernie's supporters. So she just called his "fans" racist and claimed they "run around calling blacks racist" and then says "we hate him and them."

Then she says "Look at the racist comments here." By "here", she is referring to fucking Frontpage Mag, run by one of the most extreme and vile right wingers out there, namely David fucking Horowitz. She extrapolates from the comments to say "I did not know jews hated us blacks so much" and promises "I will return it in kind." So now she is slandering all Jews and promising to hate them right back.

She spewed racism at Bernie and his supporters and Jews in general, and you think she only needs to apologize to Jewish people? Well that *would* be a good start, true -- but I've not seen it yet. Not holding my breath.

I also have to wonder how brave(?)nak found herself at the Frontpage Mag site. Did she go looking for nasty comments from Jews? If so, she found exactly what she was looking for, namely David Horowitz, who is indeed Jewish and who is indeed full of hateful commentary. Thing is, though, he is the FARTHEST THING from Bernie Sanders that exists politically, apart from an outright Nazi, and the people who frequent that site most certainly are not Sanders supporters.

No, brave(?)nak shot herself in her own foot with that little gem, and she won't live it down until she makes a sincere apology to those who she directed her remarks at, and until she stops being a grenade thrower around DU, at least not if I can help it. And again: not holding my breath for either of those things to happen.

[JI7]

196. nope. only against jews. what she said there is not comparable

Arguments on the primary. And she owes no apology there.

This forum is full of bigots and always dog whistles against jews with the israel crap.

[ljm2002]

197. Well we all have our standards...

...yours and mine are not alike, apparently.

Her remarks were hateful and unfair and they were directed towards Bernie and Bernie's supporters as well as against Jews in general for what David fucking Horowitz and his fucking asshole followers said.

Hey, I still do wonder what in hell she was doing at that site in the first place? Do you think it was not apparent to her that it is an extremist right wing site? I am torn between believing she knew exactly what they were, or she's just too ignorant and thick-headed to have noticed.

[JI7]

199. yeah. my standards recognizes the bigoted comment as not behing equal to the other

Usual primary crap.

This place is full of bigotry and people cheer it on. She is the only one that apologized .

[gollygee]

198. OK that's enough

She apologized. You didn't read it or something. You're being aggressive in a protected group, you are mischaracterizing an AA DUer in the AA protected group, and we are moving on now. It's time for us to block you.

[bettyellen]

200. None needed, my friend.

[Kalidurga]

203. I have seen enough pile ons to cut a whole lot of slack here.

I have no idea why people think that is cool. But, I do have an idea of what chronic stress does to people. So, while I think this apology is great. I also think a whole lot of people in the DU community owe you an apology. I doubt they come in here to offer it though.

[MrScorpio]

204. I don't know what it is you've said...

But I know for a fact that you've been attacked repeatedly for your point of view. That's some really hard shit to constantly take.

Sometimes you'll say things that you might regret later. It's all part of being human.

[Gothmog]

205. Welcome back