African American
Related: About this forumThe "I won't vote" in November if Hillary wins is White privilege at its best
I have a very diverse group of friends. Some are Bernie supporters. Some are Hillary supporters. We have gotten into some very heated debates as of late, but always keep it civil. Some of us were recently together and discussed this whole #BernieorBust coming from many of his supporters that they will not vote Hillary or simply sit out the general election. It must be nice to have that kind of privilege...to not really care if Donald Trump becomes President. Unfortunately for us people of color, we don't have that luxury. We can't take the "oh I'll just sit it out stance" because even a Hillary presidency would be a hell of a lot better for marginalized groups than anything the Republican party is putting up. I was glad to see that my White friends who are Bernie supporters said that it was nonsense and that they would not sit out the election.
The only #BernieorBust / "I'm not voting for the lesser of two evils anymore" talk are coming from the people who have the privilege to be able to take such a stance. Reinforces the fact that in the end, its all about self. We are an individualistic rather than collectivist country, and at the end of the day instead of continuing the "revolutiion" its just give up time. I really think that if Hillary is the nominee and wins that Bernie supporters role is to hold her feet to the fire and vote in each election, particularly mid terms and make her follow a progressive agenda. But sorry...I can't "sit it out". My ancestors fought and died for my right to vote and I'll be damned if "sit it out" regarding an election ever becomes a part of my vocabulary.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)... but God knows I don't want any Syrian refugees coming to the US."
giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)The threads on closing the borders is very enlightening.
HassleCat
(6,409 posts)Sandernistas should seriously consider holding their noses and voting for Clinton because black people are the front liners, the first to be pushed over the cliff when the right wing stampede comes thundering into DC. The Voting Rights Act is under attack. We still have plenty of environmental racism happening. Somebody at the federal level really, REALLY needs to get some police and criminal justice reform going, including an end to the death penalty and stopping the feds from sending people to prion for petty drug crimes. I guess Clinton might not work for some of those things, but she would probably work for others. So suck it up, buttercup. If you can't do the right thing, do the least wrong thing.
Travis_0004
(5,417 posts)Besides, 35% of whites, and 35% of blacks likely wont vote this election, so I would argue a lot of people dont see the importance in voting.
Lorien
(31,935 posts)Yes, HILLARY is all about Herself, Bernie's campaign is about US and saving the planet for future generations. What those who have been cowed by the Clinton Machine fail to grasp is that a faux liberal can often be far more dangerous than a declared Republican. When a faux liberal wins, they are able to push through the most monsterous legislation (NAFTA, TPP, Three Strikes, "welfare reform", revoking Glass Steagall, telecommunications act of '96, etc) WITHOUT PUSHBACK for an opposition party. Horrible legislation flies through with barely a few public comments. We've HAD IT with destructive elephants in donkey suits. No one is talking about "not voting"; we'll vote, but for a candidate who will fight for us, not one who serves Wall Street, arms manufacturers, Frackers, Big Oil, Monsanto, Walmart, multinational banks, and other institution WHICH ARE LITERALLY KILLING US!
"Privilege" is smugly and arrogantly thinking that voters will be brought to heel with a Clinton hand picked boogyman named Trump. The "Privilege" of denial and ignorance allows you to go blissfully onward ignoring the most massive threat that humanity has ever faced, simply because your eyeballs are locked on your TV set and your mind isn't engaging with much outside of the establishment message: http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2002/jul/07/research.waste
We have ONE chance to save our species and most of life on earth. If we blow it, it will be thanks entirely to the Clintons and their obedient followers.
marew
(1,588 posts)"It is from numberless diverse acts of courage and belief that human history is shaped. Each time a man stands up for an ideal, or acts to improve the lot of others, or strikes out against injustice, he sends forth a tiny ripple of hope, and crossing each other from a million different centers of energy and daring those ripples build a current which can sweep down the mightiest walls of oppression and injustice."
Robert F. Kennedy
lovemydog
(11,833 posts)encouraged all citizens to vote and participate in democracy.
marew
(1,588 posts)Is it democracy when months ago Hillary began with such a large advantage over before ANY voting started anywhere? The superdelegate system ensure democracy no longer exists in the Democratic Party. I am sure Robert F. Kennedy would never support this!
Clinton had already gotten 15 percent of the delegates needed two months before any voting has begun. In other words, Clinton starts with a 15 percentage point head start over Sanders.
http://www.npr.org/2015/11/13/455812702/clinton-has-45-to-1-superdelegate-advantage-over-sanders
Un-Democratic Party: DNC chair says superdelegates ensure elites dont have to run against grassroots activists
Critics say the unelected superdelegate system is rigged. Debbie Wasserman Schultz basically admitted this is true.
http://www.salon.com/2016/02/13/un_democratic_party_dnc_chair_says_superdelegates_ensure_elites_dont_have_to_run_against_grassroots_activists/
UMTerp01
(1,048 posts)I haven't decided who I am supporting. I was solidly in the Hillary Clinton camp and I am now undecided. That should tell you that Bernie Sanders message is somewhat resonating with me, a Black/Latino gay male. However, I am not quite yet ready to say I'm for Sanders, which is why I remain neutral. I do know that I will be supporting whomever the Democratic nominee is though. I am a bit more of a fiscal conservative and I think that is why I am not yet in the Sanders camp. I'm in a higher tax bracket and I'm wondering how Bernie is planning to pay for a lot of his ideas. I actually don't mind paying more, but I have a problem not so much with big government, but big government inefficiency. The idea of expanding the federal government 40% is worrisome to me. My pragmatic side says go with Hillary. My "we need to blow this whole fucking thing up because we are in an oligarchy" says go Sanders.
I do know that either way, whether we have a Republican or Democratic President, it isn't so much going to affect my life so much as it will be a detriment to marginalized groups if we have a Republican President. Being a gay man of color I don't want to risk marriage equality go under assault and I want to see real reform that help poor communities of color, and the poor in general. I don't think I'm quite all in on full socialism. I think there should be a mix of socialism and capitalism, but I'm an independent....social liberal and more on the fiscal conservative side. So there is no party for me. Bernie nor Hillary really represent me and neither so much does the Democratic party, but I certainly will vote and will never vote Republican and until the two party system can be blown up to allow for the rise of a legitimate 3rd party, I will vote with Dem each time. Its not a great marriage, but one in which I can make work with counseling.
brer cat
(24,402 posts)and come here to insult the intelligence of our members, and redefine white privilege to suit your own propaganda. Most people who espouse similar views make us walk all the way over to GDP to get this message, which is really a pita when our eyeballs are locked on our TV. So thanks for making it convenient for us to read your condescending message in the comfort of our home here!
K & R!
Kind of Blue
(8,709 posts)Cha
(295,928 posts)Sitting this one out is not and will not be in my vocabulary.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)Digital Puppy
(496 posts)What other pearls of wisdom can you bestow??? Please tell me more how Monsanto, Walmart and the banks are killing me causing my family to be pulled over with DWB or how its Wall Street that is causing racism in education and district gerrymandering, or the repeal of the voting rights act...better yet, tell me again which candidate is best for me since I'm really ignorant and haven't heard any of these arguments before you mentioned them...you might need to speak louder since i'm a very slow POC who probably has Stockholm Syndrome...
LOL, good one.
Kind of Blue
(8,709 posts)take you seriously and continue schooling us slow folks.
Digital Puppy
(496 posts)Without my liberal use of the sarcasm emoji, or the ability to see my face, I'm sure they will be back to let me know all the ways I can help my people.
My head hurts from rolling my eyes so hard.
-DP
(Who is not for any national candidate except for the one who runs against the Republicans...why in the hell do I have to write this?!?)
lovemydog
(11,833 posts)Word.
JustAnotherGen
(31,683 posts)The end is nigh! The end of civilization is near!
And I'm over here like - I live in a good neighborhood.
Chitown Kev
(2,197 posts)JustAnotherGen
(31,683 posts)Only one person can get that done?
Then I'm writing in Elon. He's got a better track record than anyone in Fed Gov.
NowSam
(1,252 posts)Much better than my reply.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)Anyone woman who wants reproductive freedom is scared by this election too. I get more annoyed by those "if I don't win, I'm taking my ball and going home" threads than anything else lately.
Coolest Ranger
(2,034 posts)the ones who tell me that they don't want me talking about race but then go to say some racist thing towards me and tell me to know my place
lovemydog
(11,833 posts)I too enjoy speaking with different people about all this stuff. The 'I will not vote for the lesser of two evils' crap is bullshit. It's a privileged & lame excuse to not get involved in the slightest. Historically, voting in every election is choosing a lesser of two evils because no one perfect has ever run for an election or ever will. Especially in local and state and congressional elections, it's always good to vote for the more progressive candidate or the one you feel most good about.
Positive changes are coming on. Diverse people are getting more involved locally, across all spectrums of the left. We're changing things for the better. We're meeting other people we respect, sharing our struggles & victories, and creating lives of meaning and sustenance. I look forward to reading more of your posts.
Jackie Wilson Said
(4,176 posts)I would add that most are far from perfect, but your comment is something I pray will be considered by all.
OneGrassRoot
(22,917 posts)That's the one group of people who haven't lost lives to get the right to vote, so they tend to take it for granted. (And they also tend to be younger...don't have the "I fought a war to maintain our freedoms and right to vote" mindset.)
It's the more libertarian wing (of Sanders supporters) who I find says that, and that tends to be a male majority. White male majority.
Just curious if that's your experience as well.
UMTerp01
(1,048 posts)n/t
VulgarPoet
(2,872 posts)I used to count myself among that number, considering I'm in the military and mixed-- no matter who got in, the odds that we're going to war are high, and I can't see saluting either of them as my Commander in Chief, but... I rationalize voting for Hillary as "Well, either way, I'm boned unless a lot of down-ticket dems get in too. Might as well take the lighter one". Especially with how fast Trump is gaining ground.
Blasphemer
(3,261 posts)I have stepped back and viewed the campaigns themselves and primary dynamics as a whole critically rather than jumping on any particular bandwagon. A revolution is not about any one person nor is changing those gender dynamics that have systematically marginalized women. Yes, mourn a loss but it can only be a small setback if you have a true vision for social change. There are SO many rooms in which we all need to participate in revolutions, both big and small, that sitting is not an option. It is a "standing room only" time in history. If one believes they are part of revolutionary change, then losing a battle is simply a challenge that tests one's mettle as they strive to win the war. We are all on the same side. It is not comfortable over here on this side. There are differences. Divisions. There are hard questions that need to be asked. There is self-reflection that must be engaged in. But, we can and must work together. If things go as most anticipate they will, it will be a true test of our ability to do just that. And, yes, failure will hurt some of us more than others.
NowSam
(1,252 posts)The more I hear this narrative the more I feel like I am being ostracized for daring to vote for who I think is the only decent candidate running. That is Bernie Sanders.
I am allowed to vote for whom I please. I won't be intimidated into voting for the lesser of two evils. Lesser evil just ain't good enough. I will think for myself and vote for the person I believe is best.
yourout
(7,521 posts)If I don't vote for her it will be because she has not earned my vote.
Race and class won't have a damn thing to do with it.
Well said.
Digital Puppy
(496 posts)Check.
Orrex
(63,086 posts)The whole "good/evil" construct is simplistic bullshit in this context and is simply an excuse to scold people who recognize that reality is more nuanced than some care to acknowledge.
UMTerp01
(1,048 posts)I didn't say anything about voting for Bernie Sanders over Hillary in the primary. My statement was about not voting AT ALL if she ends up being the nominee. Of course you vote for whomever you want in the primary.
NowSam
(1,252 posts)I guess I just don't understand everything I read. Perhaps you could dumb it down a little more for me so i can understand you.
Thanks for being so nice.
betsuni
(25,136 posts)The words in the OP say that not voting in November would be bad. You respond with "I am allowed to vote for whomever I please." This does not make sense.
NowSam
(1,252 posts)For responding in haste. Nevertheless my non vote would still be my right. Rights and privileges are different things, in my understanding. A non vote is a vote for none of the above. If the choice in November comes down top candidates I cannot morally vote for I won't be guilted into doing so. Is that better? Is that clearer? Say whatever you like but fear of the other team won't make me vote for "our side". I consider that an act of intimidation. Intimidating me into voting for your candidate is not what I consider a winning strategy but I suppose if it is all ya got... anyway, I will cast my vote my way and you will cast your vote your way and I won't publicly admonish you for your vote. But it doesn't matter. What matters right now is how we treat and respect each other in civil discourse. So again I say sorry for not more carefully reading your op and I sincerely thank you for being such a fine person in your questioning my reading ability. I am in fact a product of the public school system.
Jackie Wilson Said
(4,176 posts)Let's not mince words, that is what it is.
Whether it is Trump or Cruz, a non vote means quite a bit, potentially.
NowSam
(1,252 posts)is a vote for perpetual war and people of all colors coming home disfigured and/or in body bags. A vote for Hillary is a vote for fracking and a ruined planet for all of us. Dirty water, air and food. A vote for Hillary is a vote for "For Profit" criminal justice system and a perpetuation of the incarceration of PoC for non violent crimes. A vote for Hillary is a vote for the to 1% continuing to be enriched on the backs of all of us. To choose between that and the carnival barker Trump is no choice at all. Want change? Want a better nation that cares for all its citizens? The children, the poor, the aged, the sick and the veterans of all races and creed? Than don't buy the hype on Hillary and instead fight for Bernie to be our nominee. If he fails we all fail. If the choice is dismal following the primaries than it won't matter which is elected. As usual. No more status quo.
Jackie Wilson Said
(4,176 posts)Historians will have an asterisk for those who allowed this, who could have prevented it.
NowSam
(1,252 posts)I urge you to vote Bernie and save the future.
Jackie Wilson Said
(4,176 posts)betsuni
(25,136 posts)Orrex
(63,086 posts)k/r!
DinahMoeHum
(21,737 posts)n/t
GoneFishin
(5,217 posts)I tell you that I am not hungry. Tough.
NowSam
(1,252 posts)and funny too!
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)was endorsed by the KKK
JI7
(89,182 posts)i think he was the only Dem candidate that people here would have had issues with voting for in the GE. and now we see with good reason.
link shows a reply from someone that says they will vote for Trump and have been banned.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027661478
Tarheel_Dem
(31,211 posts)lovemydog
(11,833 posts)from The Guardian:
As it becomes ever more likely that Hillary Clinton will win the Democratic nomination, a host of people have announced that they either wont vote for Clinton, or wont vote at all, if Bernie Sanders isnt the candidate on the ballot. I believe theres a self-righteousness about this that only people with a certain level of privilege can afford to have.
Among them is the author of the recent Huffington Post column, The Problem With Hillary, Chez, Is I Dont Vote Republican. Radio show host Russ Belville wrote: If Donald Trump wins the presidency over Hillary Clinton, its not the fault of people like me who wont vote for Republicans. Its the fault of the Democratic Party for nominating a Republican.
Theres a long list of policies that Belville and others argue keeps Clinton in step with Republicans. But anyone actually paying attention to the Democratic primary debates of this election season will have noticed that Clinton and Sanders agree on more issues than they disagree on, and that both their platforms are polar opposites to those the GOP candidates are promoting. Sanders has even pushed Clinton to the left on certain issues.
But like the people who voted for Ralph Nader in 2000 in protest at Al Gore, Bernie-or-nobody voters are making a decision with implications that go far beyond their narrow frame of reference.
Read more
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/mar/07/democratic-vote-hillary-clinton-election-2016-bernie-sanders
KitSileya
(4,035 posts)Namely gun control and immigration. And yeah, voting for Jill Stein or writing in Bernie if Hillary is the nominee is helping the republican candidate when the system is 'first past the post.' That's reality.
And helping any republican candidate this election cycle is saying that you don't care about minority groups vulnerable to police violence and gun violence, women who need reproductive health care, immigrants, people who aren't straight and the list goes on.
forjusticethunders
(1,151 posts)And then I kinda realized I'm a black guy trying to get married to a Mexican transgender woman and even a neoliberal is better than a fascist.
I do hope that if it is Hillary that we can push her to the left and she STAYS to the left. But while the current situation is awful, awful, awful, it's better than a Trump/Cruz concentration camp.
rock
(13,218 posts)After all that they've said about Hillary (everything the GOP has said, and they made up some more of their own), how can they honestly vote for her? OK, by being dishonest.
I could rec this post!
rock
(13,218 posts)Welcome to DU!
AgerolanAmerican
(1,000 posts)If unity against the GOP candidate is the prime concern then come on over to the Bernie side. That's where unity can be found. It will never be found in the camp of a corporatist-warmonger, especially one who came into great wealth for very poorly explained reasons.
Jackie Wilson Said
(4,176 posts)if the democratic candidate does not win, America will become a fascist state.
AgerolanAmerican
(1,000 posts)Corporations control everything, and we have a total surveillance police state that East Germans could never imagine in their worst nightmares.
We're already there, and we have been for some time.
We little people have little left to lose at this point.
Jackie Wilson Said
(4,176 posts)because someone disagreed with his opinion.
AgerolanAmerican
(1,000 posts)He's got several million unjustly imprisoned fellow citizens and thousands of victims of street executions at the hands of the police in front of him, though. He may have to wait a while.
Jackie Wilson Said
(4,176 posts)JustAnotherGen
(31,683 posts)The flip side is people saying "well that's petulant to just leave America if Trump wins".
No it's not. If you are married to a citizen of another country won owns property there and whose uncle at 96 - was part of Mussolini's circle - and he's telling you: This is point for point how Beni did it and you have to get your pretty wife out of there -
We will leave.
You will be fine in Trump world - I won't.
I respect your courage of conviction - respect my courage to survive because I see a mass direct threat to my life. Mass.
I won't be a Tutsi and expect people to be decent when they have proven to me they are not. I won't be guilted by the Left into fighting their insurgency when Trump wins. You guys are on your own.
giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)These are the same ppl that are referred to as BernieBros. If they don't get exactly what they demand they are going to take their ball & go home.
Jamaal510
(10,893 posts)it would be disrespectful to all the people who died and suffered injuries for the right to vote if we just sat out elections.