Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
 

UMTerp01

(1,048 posts)
Sun Mar 6, 2016, 01:44 PM Mar 2016

The "I won't vote" in November if Hillary wins is White privilege at its best

I have a very diverse group of friends. Some are Bernie supporters. Some are Hillary supporters. We have gotten into some very heated debates as of late, but always keep it civil. Some of us were recently together and discussed this whole #BernieorBust coming from many of his supporters that they will not vote Hillary or simply sit out the general election. It must be nice to have that kind of privilege...to not really care if Donald Trump becomes President. Unfortunately for us people of color, we don't have that luxury. We can't take the "oh I'll just sit it out stance" because even a Hillary presidency would be a hell of a lot better for marginalized groups than anything the Republican party is putting up. I was glad to see that my White friends who are Bernie supporters said that it was nonsense and that they would not sit out the election.

The only #BernieorBust / "I'm not voting for the lesser of two evils anymore" talk are coming from the people who have the privilege to be able to take such a stance. Reinforces the fact that in the end, its all about self. We are an individualistic rather than collectivist country, and at the end of the day instead of continuing the "revolutiion" its just give up time. I really think that if Hillary is the nominee and wins that Bernie supporters role is to hold her feet to the fire and vote in each election, particularly mid terms and make her follow a progressive agenda. But sorry...I can't "sit it out". My ancestors fought and died for my right to vote and I'll be damned if "sit it out" regarding an election ever becomes a part of my vocabulary.

72 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
The "I won't vote" in November if Hillary wins is White privilege at its best (Original Post) UMTerp01 Mar 2016 OP
I'll give you one better: "I'll move to Canada if Trump is elected... Recursion Mar 2016 #1
Or Latinos... giftedgirl77 Mar 2016 #27
A pretty good point HassleCat Mar 2016 #2
Its pretty much just talk anyway Travis_0004 Mar 2016 #3
How ironic: "Reinforces the fact that in the end, its all about self." Lorien Mar 2016 #4
Amen! Excellent Post! marew Mar 2016 #5
Robert F. Kennedy also lovemydog Mar 2016 #46
Oh, absolutely! But democracy is now defined much differently! marew Mar 2016 #69
I'm actually undecided but carry on UMTerp01 Mar 2016 #6
How sweet of you to decide to leave the bernie bubble brer cat Mar 2016 #7
+1! BlueMTexpat Mar 2016 #8
Thank you! Kind of Blue Mar 2016 #11
K&R! Haveadream Mar 2016 #20
Mahalo, brer cat~ Cha Mar 2016 #21
Thank you. Loki Mar 2016 #29
Boom. Starry Messenger Mar 2016 #33
Thanks so much for showing us the light!!! I was lost, but now I'm found... Digital Puppy Mar 2016 #9
Ha! I'm afraid the poster might Kind of Blue Mar 2016 #12
Ugghh...You are probably right! Digital Puppy Mar 2016 #14
LOL! lovemydog Mar 2016 #16
I'm reading that and getting JustAnotherGen Mar 2016 #19
"Faster than a sppeding bullet, more powerful than a locomotive..." Chitown Kev Mar 2016 #15
Wait JustAnotherGen Mar 2016 #18
Amen. 840high Mar 2016 #37
Nicely said. NowSam Mar 2016 #50
Male privilege too gollygee Mar 2016 #10
You know what I have had it with Coolest Ranger Mar 2016 #13
You & your friends have an encouraging perspective. lovemydog Mar 2016 #17
This is an important comment... Jackie Wilson Said Mar 2016 #25
Do you find it's also specifically WHITE MALES saying that? OneGrassRoot Mar 2016 #22
Yup...it sure is UMTerp01 Mar 2016 #71
K/r. VulgarPoet Mar 2016 #23
I have mainly been straddling the fence this primary season and this is one of the reasons... Blasphemer Mar 2016 #24
I disagree. NowSam Mar 2016 #26
+1....I find it really insulting. yourout Mar 2016 #31
Exactly. NowSam Mar 2016 #32
So you wont vote in November if your candidate isn't the nominee? Digital Puppy Mar 2016 #36
And, presumably, they've never voted in any election so far Orrex Mar 2016 #40
What narrative? Can you not read? UMTerp01 Mar 2016 #42
I can read fairly well NowSam Mar 2016 #43
I disagree. betsuni Mar 2016 #48
I apologize NowSam Mar 2016 #49
A non vote in November is a vote for the GOP and possibly Trumpsters beating up POC Jackie Wilson Said Mar 2016 #57
A vote for Hillary NowSam Mar 2016 #63
Troubling, very troubling. This is how it begins. Jackie Wilson Said Mar 2016 #64
Well I agree with your latest statement NowSam Mar 2016 #65
I plan on doing what Bernie Sanders is going to do, vote for him and then if he loses for Hillary Jackie Wilson Said Mar 2016 #66
"I say sorry for not more carefully reading your op" -- not my op. betsuni Mar 2016 #68
Can I recommend this OP seven or eight times? Orrex Mar 2016 #28
Thank you. DinahMoeHum Mar 2016 #30
You ask me to choose between a shit sandwich or a barf sandwich, and you get pissed when GoneFishin Mar 2016 #34
Perfectly stated NowSam Mar 2016 #44
Very well stated. Great post. MUst feel good not having to worry if the guy who wins the GE lunamagica Mar 2016 #35
Jim Webb says he Will Not vote for HIllary but he may vote for Trump JI7 Mar 2016 #38
Kick oasis Mar 2016 #39
^^^ TRUTH ^^^ Tarheel_Dem Mar 2016 #41
Here's part of a new opinion piece lovemydog Mar 2016 #45
And let's not forget that she has pushed him to the left on certain issues KitSileya Mar 2016 #47
I used to think like that forjusticethunders Mar 2016 #51
But you do see their problem don't you? rock Mar 2016 #52
I wish romana Mar 2016 #55
I'll gladly accept your post as it stands rock Mar 2016 #56
We're not going to be guilted into supporting HRC AgerolanAmerican Mar 2016 #53
Guilted? Nothing to do with guilt, the reality, the fact is Jackie Wilson Said Mar 2016 #58
America already is a Fascist state AgerolanAmerican Mar 2016 #59
Tell that to the young black man at the rally who was punched and then thrown to the ground Jackie Wilson Said Mar 2016 #60
I'll add him to the list of people to notify AgerolanAmerican Mar 2016 #61
You dont make any sense. But this is a free country, you can do that I guess. Jackie Wilson Said Mar 2016 #62
I won't be a Tutsi JustAnotherGen Mar 2016 #72
Lol, & it's on full display in this thread. giftedgirl77 Mar 2016 #54
Not only is it counterproductive, but Jamaal510 Mar 2016 #67
+1 lovemydog Mar 2016 #70

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
1. I'll give you one better: "I'll move to Canada if Trump is elected...
Sun Mar 6, 2016, 01:46 PM
Mar 2016

... but God knows I don't want any Syrian refugees coming to the US."

 

HassleCat

(6,409 posts)
2. A pretty good point
Sun Mar 6, 2016, 01:50 PM
Mar 2016

Sandernistas should seriously consider holding their noses and voting for Clinton because black people are the front liners, the first to be pushed over the cliff when the right wing stampede comes thundering into DC. The Voting Rights Act is under attack. We still have plenty of environmental racism happening. Somebody at the federal level really, REALLY needs to get some police and criminal justice reform going, including an end to the death penalty and stopping the feds from sending people to prion for petty drug crimes. I guess Clinton might not work for some of those things, but she would probably work for others. So suck it up, buttercup. If you can't do the right thing, do the least wrong thing.

 

Travis_0004

(5,417 posts)
3. Its pretty much just talk anyway
Sun Mar 6, 2016, 01:57 PM
Mar 2016

Besides, 35% of whites, and 35% of blacks likely wont vote this election, so I would argue a lot of people dont see the importance in voting.

Lorien

(31,935 posts)
4. How ironic: "Reinforces the fact that in the end, its all about self."
Sun Mar 6, 2016, 02:19 PM
Mar 2016

Yes, HILLARY is all about Herself, Bernie's campaign is about US and saving the planet for future generations. What those who have been cowed by the Clinton Machine fail to grasp is that a faux liberal can often be far more dangerous than a declared Republican. When a faux liberal wins, they are able to push through the most monsterous legislation (NAFTA, TPP, Three Strikes, "welfare reform", revoking Glass Steagall, telecommunications act of '96, etc) WITHOUT PUSHBACK for an opposition party. Horrible legislation flies through with barely a few public comments. We've HAD IT with destructive elephants in donkey suits. No one is talking about "not voting"; we'll vote, but for a candidate who will fight for us, not one who serves Wall Street, arms manufacturers, Frackers, Big Oil, Monsanto, Walmart, multinational banks, and other institution WHICH ARE LITERALLY KILLING US!

"Privilege" is smugly and arrogantly thinking that voters will be brought to heel with a Clinton hand picked boogyman named Trump. The "Privilege" of denial and ignorance allows you to go blissfully onward ignoring the most massive threat that humanity has ever faced, simply because your eyeballs are locked on your TV set and your mind isn't engaging with much outside of the establishment message: http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2002/jul/07/research.waste

We have ONE chance to save our species and most of life on earth. If we blow it, it will be thanks entirely to the Clintons and their obedient followers.

marew

(1,588 posts)
5. Amen! Excellent Post!
Sun Mar 6, 2016, 02:59 PM
Mar 2016

"It is from numberless diverse acts of courage and belief that human history is shaped. Each time a man stands up for an ideal, or acts to improve the lot of others, or strikes out against injustice, he sends forth a tiny ripple of hope, and crossing each other from a million different centers of energy and daring those ripples build a current which can sweep down the mightiest walls of oppression and injustice."
Robert F. Kennedy

marew

(1,588 posts)
69. Oh, absolutely! But democracy is now defined much differently!
Sun Mar 13, 2016, 04:15 PM
Mar 2016

Is it democracy when months ago Hillary began with such a large advantage over before ANY voting started anywhere? The superdelegate system ensure democracy no longer exists in the Democratic Party. I am sure Robert F. Kennedy would never support this!

Clinton had already gotten 15 percent of the delegates needed — two months before any voting has begun. In other words, Clinton starts with a 15 percentage point head start over Sanders.
http://www.npr.org/2015/11/13/455812702/clinton-has-45-to-1-superdelegate-advantage-over-sanders

Un-Democratic Party: DNC chair says superdelegates ensure elites don’t have to run “against grassroots activists”
Critics say the unelected superdelegate system is rigged. Debbie Wasserman Schultz basically admitted this is true.
http://www.salon.com/2016/02/13/un_democratic_party_dnc_chair_says_superdelegates_ensure_elites_dont_have_to_run_against_grassroots_activists/

 

UMTerp01

(1,048 posts)
6. I'm actually undecided but carry on
Sun Mar 6, 2016, 03:17 PM
Mar 2016

I haven't decided who I am supporting. I was solidly in the Hillary Clinton camp and I am now undecided. That should tell you that Bernie Sanders message is somewhat resonating with me, a Black/Latino gay male. However, I am not quite yet ready to say I'm for Sanders, which is why I remain neutral. I do know that I will be supporting whomever the Democratic nominee is though. I am a bit more of a fiscal conservative and I think that is why I am not yet in the Sanders camp. I'm in a higher tax bracket and I'm wondering how Bernie is planning to pay for a lot of his ideas. I actually don't mind paying more, but I have a problem not so much with big government, but big government inefficiency. The idea of expanding the federal government 40% is worrisome to me. My pragmatic side says go with Hillary. My "we need to blow this whole fucking thing up because we are in an oligarchy" says go Sanders.

I do know that either way, whether we have a Republican or Democratic President, it isn't so much going to affect my life so much as it will be a detriment to marginalized groups if we have a Republican President. Being a gay man of color I don't want to risk marriage equality go under assault and I want to see real reform that help poor communities of color, and the poor in general. I don't think I'm quite all in on full socialism. I think there should be a mix of socialism and capitalism, but I'm an independent....social liberal and more on the fiscal conservative side. So there is no party for me. Bernie nor Hillary really represent me and neither so much does the Democratic party, but I certainly will vote and will never vote Republican and until the two party system can be blown up to allow for the rise of a legitimate 3rd party, I will vote with Dem each time. Its not a great marriage, but one in which I can make work with counseling.

brer cat

(24,402 posts)
7. How sweet of you to decide to leave the bernie bubble
Sun Mar 6, 2016, 03:25 PM
Mar 2016

and come here to insult the intelligence of our members, and redefine white privilege to suit your own propaganda. Most people who espouse similar views make us walk all the way over to GDP to get this message, which is really a pita when our eyeballs are locked on our TV. So thanks for making it convenient for us to read your condescending message in the comfort of our home here!

Digital Puppy

(496 posts)
9. Thanks so much for showing us the light!!! I was lost, but now I'm found...
Sun Mar 6, 2016, 04:31 PM
Mar 2016

What other pearls of wisdom can you bestow??? Please tell me more how Monsanto, Walmart and the banks are killing me causing my family to be pulled over with DWB or how its Wall Street that is causing racism in education and district gerrymandering, or the repeal of the voting rights act...better yet, tell me again which candidate is best for me since I'm really ignorant and haven't heard any of these arguments before you mentioned them...you might need to speak louder since i'm a very slow POC who probably has Stockholm Syndrome...

elephants in donkey suits

LOL, good one.

Digital Puppy

(496 posts)
14. Ugghh...You are probably right!
Sun Mar 6, 2016, 07:27 PM
Mar 2016

Without my liberal use of the sarcasm emoji, or the ability to see my face, I'm sure they will be back to let me know all the ways I can help my people.

My head hurts from rolling my eyes so hard.

-DP
(Who is not for any national candidate except for the one who runs against the Republicans...why in the hell do I have to write this?!?)

JustAnotherGen

(31,683 posts)
19. I'm reading that and getting
Sun Mar 6, 2016, 08:40 PM
Mar 2016

The end is nigh! The end of civilization is near!

And I'm over here like - I live in a good neighborhood.

Chitown Kev

(2,197 posts)
15. "Faster than a sppeding bullet, more powerful than a locomotive..."
Sun Mar 6, 2016, 07:27 PM
Mar 2016
Bernie's campaign is about US and saving the planet for future generations.

JustAnotherGen

(31,683 posts)
18. Wait
Sun Mar 6, 2016, 08:29 PM
Mar 2016

Only one person can get that done?

Then I'm writing in Elon. He's got a better track record than anyone in Fed Gov.


gollygee

(22,336 posts)
10. Male privilege too
Sun Mar 6, 2016, 04:54 PM
Mar 2016

Anyone woman who wants reproductive freedom is scared by this election too. I get more annoyed by those "if I don't win, I'm taking my ball and going home" threads than anything else lately.

Coolest Ranger

(2,034 posts)
13. You know what I have had it with
Sun Mar 6, 2016, 05:05 PM
Mar 2016

the ones who tell me that they don't want me talking about race but then go to say some racist thing towards me and tell me to know my place

lovemydog

(11,833 posts)
17. You & your friends have an encouraging perspective.
Sun Mar 6, 2016, 08:29 PM
Mar 2016

I too enjoy speaking with different people about all this stuff. The 'I will not vote for the lesser of two evils' crap is bullshit. It's a privileged & lame excuse to not get involved in the slightest. Historically, voting in every election is choosing a lesser of two evils because no one perfect has ever run for an election or ever will. Especially in local and state and congressional elections, it's always good to vote for the more progressive candidate or the one you feel most good about.

Positive changes are coming on. Diverse people are getting more involved locally, across all spectrums of the left. We're changing things for the better. We're meeting other people we respect, sharing our struggles & victories, and creating lives of meaning and sustenance. I look forward to reading more of your posts.

Jackie Wilson Said

(4,176 posts)
25. This is an important comment...
Mon Mar 7, 2016, 07:48 PM
Mar 2016
Historically, voting in every election is choosing a lesser of two evils because no one perfect has ever run for an election or ever will.


I would add that most are far from perfect, but your comment is something I pray will be considered by all.

OneGrassRoot

(22,917 posts)
22. Do you find it's also specifically WHITE MALES saying that?
Mon Mar 7, 2016, 10:04 AM
Mar 2016

That's the one group of people who haven't lost lives to get the right to vote, so they tend to take it for granted. (And they also tend to be younger...don't have the "I fought a war to maintain our freedoms and right to vote" mindset.)

It's the more libertarian wing (of Sanders supporters) who I find says that, and that tends to be a male majority. White male majority.

Just curious if that's your experience as well.

VulgarPoet

(2,872 posts)
23. K/r.
Mon Mar 7, 2016, 10:29 AM
Mar 2016

I used to count myself among that number, considering I'm in the military and mixed-- no matter who got in, the odds that we're going to war are high, and I can't see saluting either of them as my Commander in Chief, but... I rationalize voting for Hillary as "Well, either way, I'm boned unless a lot of down-ticket dems get in too. Might as well take the lighter one". Especially with how fast Trump is gaining ground.

Blasphemer

(3,261 posts)
24. I have mainly been straddling the fence this primary season and this is one of the reasons...
Mon Mar 7, 2016, 07:05 PM
Mar 2016

I have stepped back and viewed the campaigns themselves and primary dynamics as a whole critically rather than jumping on any particular bandwagon. A revolution is not about any one person nor is changing those gender dynamics that have systematically marginalized women. Yes, mourn a loss but it can only be a small setback if you have a true vision for social change. There are SO many rooms in which we all need to participate in revolutions, both big and small, that sitting is not an option. It is a "standing room only" time in history. If one believes they are part of revolutionary change, then losing a battle is simply a challenge that tests one's mettle as they strive to win the war. We are all on the same side. It is not comfortable over here on this side. There are differences. Divisions. There are hard questions that need to be asked. There is self-reflection that must be engaged in. But, we can and must work together. If things go as most anticipate they will, it will be a true test of our ability to do just that. And, yes, failure will hurt some of us more than others.

NowSam

(1,252 posts)
26. I disagree.
Mon Mar 7, 2016, 07:53 PM
Mar 2016

The more I hear this narrative the more I feel like I am being ostracized for daring to vote for who I think is the only decent candidate running. That is Bernie Sanders.

I am allowed to vote for whom I please. I won't be intimidated into voting for the lesser of two evils. Lesser evil just ain't good enough. I will think for myself and vote for the person I believe is best.

yourout

(7,521 posts)
31. +1....I find it really insulting.
Mon Mar 7, 2016, 08:15 PM
Mar 2016

If I don't vote for her it will be because she has not earned my vote.
Race and class won't have a damn thing to do with it.

Orrex

(63,086 posts)
40. And, presumably, they've never voted in any election so far
Tue Mar 8, 2016, 08:40 AM
Mar 2016

The whole "good/evil" construct is simplistic bullshit in this context and is simply an excuse to scold people who recognize that reality is more nuanced than some care to acknowledge.

 

UMTerp01

(1,048 posts)
42. What narrative? Can you not read?
Fri Mar 11, 2016, 07:07 PM
Mar 2016

I didn't say anything about voting for Bernie Sanders over Hillary in the primary. My statement was about not voting AT ALL if she ends up being the nominee. Of course you vote for whomever you want in the primary.

NowSam

(1,252 posts)
43. I can read fairly well
Fri Mar 11, 2016, 07:21 PM
Mar 2016

I guess I just don't understand everything I read. Perhaps you could dumb it down a little more for me so i can understand you.

Thanks for being so nice.

betsuni

(25,136 posts)
48. I disagree.
Sat Mar 12, 2016, 10:18 AM
Mar 2016

The words in the OP say that not voting in November would be bad. You respond with "I am allowed to vote for whomever I please." This does not make sense.

NowSam

(1,252 posts)
49. I apologize
Sat Mar 12, 2016, 11:23 AM
Mar 2016

For responding in haste. Nevertheless my non vote would still be my right. Rights and privileges are different things, in my understanding. A non vote is a vote for none of the above. If the choice in November comes down top candidates I cannot morally vote for I won't be guilted into doing so. Is that better? Is that clearer? Say whatever you like but fear of the other team won't make me vote for "our side". I consider that an act of intimidation. Intimidating me into voting for your candidate is not what I consider a winning strategy but I suppose if it is all ya got... anyway, I will cast my vote my way and you will cast your vote your way and I won't publicly admonish you for your vote. But it doesn't matter. What matters right now is how we treat and respect each other in civil discourse. So again I say sorry for not more carefully reading your op and I sincerely thank you for being such a fine person in your questioning my reading ability. I am in fact a product of the public school system.

Jackie Wilson Said

(4,176 posts)
57. A non vote in November is a vote for the GOP and possibly Trumpsters beating up POC
Sat Mar 12, 2016, 01:14 PM
Mar 2016

Let's not mince words, that is what it is.

Whether it is Trump or Cruz, a non vote means quite a bit, potentially.

NowSam

(1,252 posts)
63. A vote for Hillary
Sat Mar 12, 2016, 02:04 PM
Mar 2016

is a vote for perpetual war and people of all colors coming home disfigured and/or in body bags. A vote for Hillary is a vote for fracking and a ruined planet for all of us. Dirty water, air and food. A vote for Hillary is a vote for "For Profit" criminal justice system and a perpetuation of the incarceration of PoC for non violent crimes. A vote for Hillary is a vote for the to 1% continuing to be enriched on the backs of all of us. To choose between that and the carnival barker Trump is no choice at all. Want change? Want a better nation that cares for all its citizens? The children, the poor, the aged, the sick and the veterans of all races and creed? Than don't buy the hype on Hillary and instead fight for Bernie to be our nominee. If he fails we all fail. If the choice is dismal following the primaries than it won't matter which is elected. As usual. No more status quo.

Jackie Wilson Said

(4,176 posts)
64. Troubling, very troubling. This is how it begins.
Sat Mar 12, 2016, 02:05 PM
Mar 2016

Historians will have an asterisk for those who allowed this, who could have prevented it.

GoneFishin

(5,217 posts)
34. You ask me to choose between a shit sandwich or a barf sandwich, and you get pissed when
Mon Mar 7, 2016, 08:31 PM
Mar 2016

I tell you that I am not hungry. Tough.

lunamagica

(9,967 posts)
35. Very well stated. Great post. MUst feel good not having to worry if the guy who wins the GE
Mon Mar 7, 2016, 09:08 PM
Mar 2016

was endorsed by the KKK

JI7

(89,182 posts)
38. Jim Webb says he Will Not vote for HIllary but he may vote for Trump
Tue Mar 8, 2016, 12:19 AM
Mar 2016

i think he was the only Dem candidate that people here would have had issues with voting for in the GE. and now we see with good reason.

link shows a reply from someone that says they will vote for Trump and have been banned.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027661478

lovemydog

(11,833 posts)
45. Here's part of a new opinion piece
Sat Mar 12, 2016, 08:55 AM
Mar 2016

from The Guardian:

As it becomes ever more likely that Hillary Clinton will win the Democratic nomination, a host of people have announced that they either won’t vote for Clinton, or won’t vote at all, if Bernie Sanders isn’t the candidate on the ballot. I believe there’s a self-righteousness about this that only people with a certain level of privilege can afford to have.

Among them is the author of the recent Huffington Post column, “The Problem With Hillary, Chez, Is I Don’t Vote Republican”. Radio show host Russ Belville wrote: If Donald Trump wins the presidency over Hillary Clinton, it’s not the fault of people like me who won’t vote for Republicans. It’s the fault of the Democratic Party for nominating a Republican.

There’s a long list of policies that Belville and others argue keeps Clinton in step with Republicans. But anyone actually paying attention to the Democratic primary debates of this election season will have noticed that Clinton and Sanders agree on more issues than they disagree on, and that both their platforms are polar opposites to those the GOP candidates are promoting. Sanders has even pushed Clinton to the left on certain issues.

But like the people who voted for Ralph Nader in 2000 in protest at Al Gore, Bernie-or-nobody voters are making a decision with implications that go far beyond their narrow frame of reference.

Read more
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/mar/07/democratic-vote-hillary-clinton-election-2016-bernie-sanders

KitSileya

(4,035 posts)
47. And let's not forget that she has pushed him to the left on certain issues
Sat Mar 12, 2016, 09:32 AM
Mar 2016

Namely gun control and immigration. And yeah, voting for Jill Stein or writing in Bernie if Hillary is the nominee is helping the republican candidate when the system is 'first past the post.' That's reality.

And helping any republican candidate this election cycle is saying that you don't care about minority groups vulnerable to police violence and gun violence, women who need reproductive health care, immigrants, people who aren't straight and the list goes on.

 

forjusticethunders

(1,151 posts)
51. I used to think like that
Sat Mar 12, 2016, 11:30 AM
Mar 2016

And then I kinda realized I'm a black guy trying to get married to a Mexican transgender woman and even a neoliberal is better than a fascist.

I do hope that if it is Hillary that we can push her to the left and she STAYS to the left. But while the current situation is awful, awful, awful, it's better than a Trump/Cruz concentration camp.

rock

(13,218 posts)
52. But you do see their problem don't you?
Sat Mar 12, 2016, 11:58 AM
Mar 2016

After all that they've said about Hillary (everything the GOP has said, and they made up some more of their own), how can they honestly vote for her? OK, by being dishonest.

 

AgerolanAmerican

(1,000 posts)
53. We're not going to be guilted into supporting HRC
Sat Mar 12, 2016, 12:14 PM
Mar 2016

If unity against the GOP candidate is the prime concern then come on over to the Bernie side. That's where unity can be found. It will never be found in the camp of a corporatist-warmonger, especially one who came into great wealth for very poorly explained reasons.

Jackie Wilson Said

(4,176 posts)
58. Guilted? Nothing to do with guilt, the reality, the fact is
Sat Mar 12, 2016, 01:16 PM
Mar 2016

if the democratic candidate does not win, America will become a fascist state.

 

AgerolanAmerican

(1,000 posts)
59. America already is a Fascist state
Sat Mar 12, 2016, 01:19 PM
Mar 2016

Corporations control everything, and we have a total surveillance police state that East Germans could never imagine in their worst nightmares.

We're already there, and we have been for some time.

We little people have little left to lose at this point.

Jackie Wilson Said

(4,176 posts)
60. Tell that to the young black man at the rally who was punched and then thrown to the ground
Sat Mar 12, 2016, 01:21 PM
Mar 2016

because someone disagreed with his opinion.

 

AgerolanAmerican

(1,000 posts)
61. I'll add him to the list of people to notify
Sat Mar 12, 2016, 01:23 PM
Mar 2016

He's got several million unjustly imprisoned fellow citizens and thousands of victims of street executions at the hands of the police in front of him, though. He may have to wait a while.

JustAnotherGen

(31,683 posts)
72. I won't be a Tutsi
Mon Mar 14, 2016, 05:06 AM
Mar 2016

The flip side is people saying "well that's petulant to just leave America if Trump wins".

No it's not. If you are married to a citizen of another country won owns property there and whose uncle at 96 - was part of Mussolini's circle - and he's telling you: This is point for point how Beni did it and you have to get your pretty wife out of there -

We will leave.

You will be fine in Trump world - I won't.

I respect your courage of conviction - respect my courage to survive because I see a mass direct threat to my life. Mass.

I won't be a Tutsi and expect people to be decent when they have proven to me they are not. I won't be guilted by the Left into fighting their insurgency when Trump wins. You guys are on your own.

 

giftedgirl77

(4,713 posts)
54. Lol, & it's on full display in this thread.
Sat Mar 12, 2016, 12:40 PM
Mar 2016


These are the same ppl that are referred to as BernieBros. If they don't get exactly what they demand they are going to take their ball & go home.

Jamaal510

(10,893 posts)
67. Not only is it counterproductive, but
Sun Mar 13, 2016, 12:18 AM
Mar 2016

it would be disrespectful to all the people who died and suffered injuries for the right to vote if we just sat out elections.

Latest Discussions»Alliance Forums»African American»The "I won't vote" in Nov...