Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
14 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
The New Republic on how gun control advocates shot themselves in both feet (Original Post) benEzra Apr 2013 OP
This message was self-deleted by its author Mass Apr 2013 #1
Before someone starts trashing the New Republic as representing the right, Republicans, or the NRA, AnotherMcIntosh Apr 2013 #2
For some controllers, the Enemies' List can't be too short... Eleanors38 Apr 2013 #5
The push to ban assault weapons killed universal background checks Pullo Apr 2013 #3
And in one of the greatest under-recognized ironies, I watched Senator Feinstein bemoaning... slackmaster Apr 2013 #4
Slack your right, they where not popular.. virginia mountainman Apr 2013 #6
Unfortunately, premium Apr 2013 #7
Is that permanent? Pullo Apr 2013 #8
No idea. premium Apr 2013 #10
Some will not be happy until anyone who is Pro-civil liberties is purged from the party... virginia mountainman Apr 2013 #11
AR-15 sales have exploded thanks to DiFi latest ban attempt Pullo Apr 2013 #9
You got it backwards, mountaineer jimmy the one Apr 2013 #12
Standard TLDR. nt CokeMachine Apr 2013 #13
Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2013 #14

Response to benEzra (Original post)

 

AnotherMcIntosh

(11,064 posts)
2. Before someone starts trashing the New Republic as representing the right, Republicans, or the NRA,
Fri Apr 19, 2013, 10:40 AM
Apr 2013

they should be aware that the New Republic is a liberal / DLC / and-now-back-to-liberal leaning publication.

"Domestically, TNR as of 2011 supports a largely modern liberal stance on fiscal and social issues, according to editor Franklin Foer, who stated that it "invented the modern usage of the term 'liberal', and it's one of our historical legacies and obligations to be involved in the ongoing debate over what exactly liberalism means and stands for." As of 2004, however, some, like Anne Kossedd and Steven Rendall, contend that it is not as liberal as it was before 1974.

The magazine's outlook is associated with the Democratic Leadership Council and "New Democrats" such as former US President Bill Clinton and Connecticut Senator Joseph Lieberman, who received the magazine's endorsement in the 2004 Democratic primary; so did Barack Obama over Hillary Clinton in 2008.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_Republic
 

Eleanors38

(18,318 posts)
5. For some controllers, the Enemies' List can't be too short...
Sat Apr 20, 2013, 02:21 AM
Apr 2013

Winkler pretty much stated the obvious. Controllers did not take seriously the opposition, preferring to believe that strong supporters of 2A were (despite all evidence to the contrary) paper tigers who would, to change metaphors to fit local conditions, "wilt like flowers" before righteousness. I note specifically that VPC did not merely want a mag cap ban, but wanted a retroactive ban, the mass criminalization so dearly desired by some prohibitionists. All that loud blaring about bans was a signal of weakness in itself.

Worse, strong backers of 2A HERE supported expanded widened b.g. checks before Sandy Hook. But our views had by them become NRAtalkingPoints™, and other DUers who were inclined to go with realistic measures were all but drowned out by DU's Wrath of Khant.

Makes you wonder: After all the talk about the mass killing of children, what was really more important to the extreme controller/banners? Practical attempts to address social problems, or moral validation through sweeping ban proposals?

I think we have our answer.

Pullo

(594 posts)
3. The push to ban assault weapons killed universal background checks
Fri Apr 19, 2013, 11:31 AM
Apr 2013

Adam Winkler's analysis is spot on.

Congressional consideration was also delayed by gun control proponents’ insistence on a ban on assault weapons. This was a nonstarter to begin with; nearly everyone familiar with gun politics recognized that such a ban would never pass the House even if it made it through the less conservative Senate. Even if the law could be passed, it wouldn’t have made any dent in gun violence statistics because these guns are rarely used in crime. There was only one certain outcome from proposing to ban assault weapons: It was guaranteed to stimulate the fiercest opposition.

Focusing on assault weapons played right into the hands of the NRA, which has for years been saying that Obama wanted to ban guns. Gun control advocates ridiculed that idea—then proposed to ban the most popular rifle in America.

Gun control advocates have told me the assault weapons ban was intended to be a bargaining chip. Ask for the moon, settle for less—in this case, universal background checks. If that was the strategy, it backfired. For most of February and March, gun advocates focused their criticisms on the assault weapons ban. They correctly observed that it outlawed guns but did nothing to keep outlaws from having guns. And they used the time to organize their base, comprised largely of gun owners who love the AR-15 and its variations. Many gun owners might have supported background checks had they not been distracted by the assault weapons issue, which caused them to distrust gun control proponents even more than before.


Link
 

slackmaster

(60,567 posts)
4. And in one of the greatest under-recognized ironies, I watched Senator Feinstein bemoaning...
Fri Apr 19, 2013, 01:29 PM
Apr 2013

...a "proliferation" of "military-style" weapons that she and some of her fellow gun ban enthusiasts CAUSED, both when they pushed the 1994 ban and recently.

virginia mountainman

(5,046 posts)
6. Slack your right, they where not popular..
Sat Apr 20, 2013, 04:38 PM
Apr 2013

Until she helped ban them in 1994, she is beyond all shadow of a doubt one the main reasons they are so popular today.

And after her latest failed push, gun control advocates have help assure that they will never be nationally banned.

virginia mountainman

(5,046 posts)
11. Some will not be happy until anyone who is Pro-civil liberties is purged from the party...
Sun Apr 21, 2013, 12:38 AM
Apr 2013

And then they will wonder why so many turned their backs on them. I know the current jihad against anyone who disagrees on gun control, has cost them life long supporters. (I myself has helped organize a group Union brothers in New York against the SAFE act, their where many former Obama voters present, but they swore almost to the person ,"Never again" ).

But, evidently our parties leadership, like religious faithful, simply do not care about the end result of such an intensely unpopular position will be. ......So be it....

Pullo

(594 posts)
9. AR-15 sales have exploded thanks to DiFi latest ban attempt
Sat Apr 20, 2013, 06:05 PM
Apr 2013

It was already America's most popular rifle. Now? It is a must-have.

jimmy the one

(2,708 posts)
12. You got it backwards, mountaineer
Sun Apr 21, 2013, 08:15 AM
Apr 2013

va mtn man: (I myself has helped organize a group Union brothers in New York against the SAFE act, their where many former Obama voters present, but they swore almost to the person ,"Never again" ).

These 'many former obama voters present' swore 'almost to a person' that 'never again' would they vote for obama? Bravo for believing them, I don't blame you one little bit; tell you what, I'm going on record right here & now to say that I too will never vote for obama for president again.
Shouldn't you have cheerfully piped up that obama was living up to michelle bachman's post election revised prediction 'A TWO TERM PRESIDENT!'

But, evidently our parties leadership, like religious faithful, simply do not care about the end result of such an intensely unpopular position will be. ......So be it.... Sic semper tyrannis

You do realize, mtnman, that by tacking on 'sic semper tyrannis' you said 'thus always to tyranny', somewhat condoning what you wrote immediately prior (it actually could be what he meant to write, hard to say, the phrase is often misinterpreted as being 'do away with tyranny').

va mtn man: I know the current jihad against anyone who disagrees on gun control, has cost them life long supporters.

Your usual shtick about how siding with guncontrol will cost congressmen their seats;
It's you who should be worried, mtn man, cause you might have the guns, but we got the numbers:

Why the Senate Vote May Signal 2016 Problems for the Gun Lobby ... the {bgcheck} vote suggested that, after years in which gun-control has been sublimated as a political issue, support for expanding background checks and possibly further steps has again become a political norm in almost all of the blue-leaning states that underpin the recent Democratic advantage in the race for the White House.
....examine the Senate vote on the critical amendment to offer background checks through the prism of the Electoral College. The amendment drew unified support from both senators in 21 states representing 261 Electoral College votes. By contrast, both senators opposed the amendment in 17 states representing just 146 Electoral College votes. Senators from the remaining 12 states, with a combined 128 Electoral College votes, split their vote on the amendment.
.. The contrast between the tight balance in the total number of states that unified for and against the amendment, and the broad imbalance in their Electoral College strength, underscores how the Senate’s structure magnifies the influence of smaller states, most of them rural, preponderantly white, and culturally conservative.

http://www.nationaljournal.com/politics/why-the-senate-vote-may-signal-2016-problems-for-the-gun-lobby-20130418

What the article is saying is that, while redstate senators from smaller populated states get magnified in the senate, this advantage does not roll over to the popular vote for the presidential election. Au contraire.

Response to benEzra (Original post)

Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Gun Control & RKBA»The New Republic on how g...