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discntnt_irny_srcsm

(18,470 posts)
Mon Apr 15, 2013, 10:08 AM Apr 2013

Why is it reasonable for Democrats to negotiate...

...on firearm restrictions?

Republicans and Democrats span an entire spectrum of political and social ideologies. I used to be a Republican. When I was young, the idea of "conservative" meant to me to hold to traditional beliefs. I still have great respect for the founders. As I matured I saw those Republicans (labeled as conservatives) enter, escalate and justify more and more wars and foreign conflicts. I was on the fence a bit when GW was elected. He and his crew put together the Patriot Act which stomps all over some civil rights. I was learning that what Republicans actually stand for is doing very little and worse, when they do something, they create things like the Patriot Act.

This was a revelation for me. I read and investigated a bit. Democrats are the party of action. Democrats find solutions. Republicans would rather do nothing and collect a paycheck for it. These are my personal stereotypes. They aren't inherited from my parents or peers. They've been developed by observation.

Many Democrats favor more gun control. Some proposed gun laws favored by Democrats are against what many pro-gun folks believe. I'm not saying that beliefs need to be compromised just because of opposition. Often we need to compromise between an ideal world and the state of society and government. It's good to work toward that ideal but if you just ignore current events and pretend no change is needed, IMHO, you're a Republican.

I think a universal NICS is an acceptable idea. I think banning a gun because it accepts a magazine or has a pistol grip is wrong, it's just... Republican. Republicans think of prejudicial things like this:

"Dear Editor.

I know and appreciate Sen. Tim Johnson’s position on guns and the Second Amendment. I would ask him to ask the progressive liberals he is in contact with who are antigun and anti second amendment why is it the progressive liberals acquire guns, then kill (movie goers) and children in schools'? Why are no conservative NRA members involved in mass shootings?

Ft Hood Shooter: Registered Democrat and Muslim.

Columbine Shooters: Too young to vote … both families were Registered Democrats and progressive liberals.

Virginia Tech shooter: Wrote hate mail to President Bush and to his staff. Registered Democrat.

Colorado theater shooter: Registered Democrat, staff worker on the Obama campaign, occu()py wall street participant .. progressive liberal.

Connecticut school shooter: Registered Democrat. Hated Christians.

Common thread is that all of these shooters were progressive liberal Demo-rats.

Curious, isn't it? So I was thinking, maybe we should just make it illegal for Demo-rats to buy guns.

Problem solved. I think that is a fair solution. After all. it is for the children too."


Republicans say things like this and other Republicans believe them. If Democrats want to help fuel this kind of inane thinking, we should continue the campaign against pistol grips and bayonet lugs. If we want to make some actual progress... well we can all see where this is going; we're not Republicans.
2 votes, 0 passes | Time left: Unlimited
Negotiation is progress
1 (50%)
I\'m a staunch idealist, I can\'t negotiate
1 (50%)
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Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Why is it reasonable for Democrats to negotiate... (Original Post) discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2013 OP
Politics is no longer about negotiation sarisataka Apr 2013 #1
Make no mistake... discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2013 #3
Some things I will negotiate, others I won't. rrneck Apr 2013 #2
I can't help but respect... discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2013 #4
I am for reasonable restrictions on firearms sylvi Apr 2013 #5
+100 nt Mojorabbit Apr 2013 #6
It is compromise on the issue of... discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2013 #7

sarisataka

(18,220 posts)
1. Politics is no longer about negotiation
Mon Apr 15, 2013, 11:07 AM
Apr 2013

it is about 'winning'. If you negotiate, back off from your original position you have given up a point. You need the other side to give up more points so you can stay ahead on the scoreboard. Of course the other side has the same viewpoint so wants to stay ahead of yours.
They goal of the legislation does not matter. The good of the legislation does not matter. Benefit to the People does not matter.Progress that could be made through compromise does not matter. Winning is what matters.
This applies to every issue, not just guns. Politicians are more interested in winning than doing what is right, or even mostly right.
The main difference is Democrats are more willing to break out of this mindset at the 11th hour to do something good, if not ideal. Republicans would rather drag the country deeper into hell than give up a bad position.

discntnt_irny_srcsm

(18,470 posts)
3. Make no mistake...
Mon Apr 15, 2013, 11:42 AM
Apr 2013

...I understand winning. Winning is the goal. Attorneys "win" cases. "Winning" is the goal. From the colonists winning against King George to Obama winning the last election, winning is today offered as the tangible proof that you were right or better than the competition. The media grandstanding that goes on is about winning.

The process for winning is about negotiating. It's the people at the grassroots who will need to be negotiable on their ideals. Many Democrats have expressed the ideal to reduce the sale of guns overall.

Two things make so much common sense to me that it's difficult for me to believe they aren't obvious to everyone.
1- If you are a victim of violence, you will tend to be hurt less if you resist your assailant and, according to the FBI, resisting with a weapon preferably a gun, is your best chance. (I can't find the link to where the FBI said this.)

2- Society will benefit more by fewer injuries and deaths if we can better influence WHO can easily buy a firearm rather than whether it has an adjustable stock.

I would be utterly amazed if it isn't true that more than half of firearm crimes are committed with 5 or 6 shot revolvers or pistols holding under 10 rounds.

rrneck

(17,671 posts)
2. Some things I will negotiate, others I won't.
Mon Apr 15, 2013, 11:29 AM
Apr 2013

We are supposed to be the "reality based community". As long as we stay that way, we can force them to negotiate. But when we indulge in ideological pitched battles designed to be reduced to bumper sticker soundbites we lose.

discntnt_irny_srcsm

(18,470 posts)
4. I can't help but respect...
Mon Apr 15, 2013, 11:56 AM
Apr 2013

...an individual who remains faithful to principles. Never will the rights of the people suffer more than when their representatives put nothing off limits in their horsetrading efforts to just "win".

There are issues central to individual freedom and rights. I don't advocate any compromise there.

 

sylvi

(813 posts)
5. I am for reasonable restrictions on firearms
Mon Apr 15, 2013, 01:03 PM
Apr 2013

But I think, with the exception of expanded NICS checks, most of those reasonable restrictions already exist.

The problem with negotiating restrictions on rights is that they always seem to go in one direction - a decrease or contraction of that right - and any "negotiation" that occurs involves the degree of that contraction. With the exception of the liberalization of concealed carry laws over the past few years very little if anything has been done to expand 2A interpretation.

Ask women how negotiating the right to reproductive choice has been going over the last decade. Every time it comes up it is an attempt to whittle away at those rights. At some point a right becomes so compromised through repeated "negotiations" that it in effect ceases to exist.

That is why the constant battle against authoritarians is so necessary, and why pro-rights people can appear so obstinate.

discntnt_irny_srcsm

(18,470 posts)
7. It is compromise on the issue of...
Mon Apr 15, 2013, 03:36 PM
Apr 2013

..."assault weapons" that I favor. I think it's fine to be a Democrat favoring some gun-control measures but I believe another AWB is nothing but a meaningless loser idea that will accomplish nothing and only hurt the party ideology.

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