I shot a .223 modeled after the M4 this past weekend

[Nuclear Unicorn]

(You can beat me with a stick if I can remember its exact make and name.)

We were supposed to shoot the weekend before but we had snow -- a lot of snow. We went to the property of a friend/co-worker and the guest roster grew until it was something of an event.

I can see the attraction and understand why so many women advocate for them. Yes, they look menacing but the kick is practically non-existent. Lover Boy had me zero the rifle using 3-round shot groups like they do in the army and I zeroed in 12 rounds. I'm not mechanically inclined in the least but it was a fascinating process learning how to get the sights in line. Even my SIL was able to safely handle and accurately shoot.

Taking turns I got to put 4 10-round magazines down range (the magazines held more, we just loaded 10 rounds to rotate shooters more quickly). Others shot much more than I did; I'm not a big shooter but I had to see what al the fuss was about (and LB says girls in baseball caps holding weapons are cute, so I suppose there's that). I haven't shot but once since my last posts around 2 years ago but I felt more accurate with the rifle than with pistols. I tried a shotgun but after 2 shots I couldn't take it anymore and I have the greening bruise to prove it. I'm only 5' 3" and its too cumbersome.

I let my SIL shoot the .22 revolver her dad gave me after my MIL passed away. It was her first time shooting it since her mom died. It was emotional on a number of levels with many different qualities.

The only untowards event of the day was during the after-shoot BBQ when the kids tackled each other in the front yard and rolled across a cactus. Some blood, many tears, twice as many recriminations but all in all it was a good day of family and friends.

[ManiacJoe]

1. Sounds like a fun and safe time was had by all!

This thread might get locked for not meeting the group's SOP, but congrats until then.

[upaloopa]

4. I'm a gun control advocate meaning I would like to see

see a reduction in gun violence in this country. Having said that I do like shooting guns at targets.
I remember in basic training that I was amazed that I could hit the target with my M-14 doing just what they told me to do.
In Vietnam I used things from M-14 to 50 cal machine guns but not for fun. After I got back I shot pistols mostly because of not wanting to mess with rifles and such any more.
As a kid my dad took me trap shooting which was fun also.
I understand why people own guns and do not want to take them away. Just want to reduce gun violence. If people like me and people who like guns could work together I think we could reduce gun violence and protect gun rights at the same time.
We have to give on some things and not let the extremes on either side run the show.

[Control-Z]

2. Why?

Why make a post like this when the country is being crushed by a handful of desperate gun caressing lunatics?

This post is just in poor, poor taste. I hope you get whatever thrill you were looking for. But there are plenty enough gun sites out there you could have drooled upon and been heralded by all. Really. Sincerely. Just please keep it to yourself here at Democratic Underground for a while, if you are able.

[Glassunion]

3. Question.

Are all members and contributors to Democratic Underground supposed to hate/despise firearms?

Or are you attempting to establish what your rules here should be for sharing what a family day out is supposed to be?

[Control-Z]

6. Seriously?

You're answering my question with a question? That just makes you so transparent.

[slackmaster]

10. The most transparent thing in this thread is YOUR bias, Control-Z.

[Control-Z]

11. Yet, still no answer

to my question. Yes, I am transparent. Haven't claimed to be anything but. See how this works? Now someone gets to answer my question.

[slackmaster]

18. Your question reeks of arrogance. You don't deserve an answer.

[Control-Z]

19. Another non answer.

This might be fun if it weren't so serious. And I'm out of free time for posting tonight.

[Ghost in the Machine]

48. I'll give you an answer..

The OP posted it for no other reason than he WANTED TO, and does not need YOUR permission and/or approval to do so. If YOU don't like it, don't click on the subject line and read the post if you don't like guns, and the subject/title is "I shot a gun this weekend". It's really just that simple!

Who are YOU to tell people what, or what not, to post?? You don't own the site, you're not an ADMIN and you have no business telling ANYONE what to post. Is that clear enough? Here's a quick remedy for you. If you don't want to read about guns, leave the guns group and go read the Cooking & Baking group, the Gardening group, or any other group that ISN'T ABOUT GUNS.

Yes, this is DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND, where we support Democrats, and the Democratic Party Platform SUPPORTS THE 2nd AMENDMENT.

Does *that* answer your question?? If you don't like it, or the OP, please feel free to alert on them and let the hosts or a jury decide, m'kay?

Thanks,

Ghost

[AtheistCrusader]

57. I'll answer it with an answer.

The vast majority of gun owners harm no one, and use firearms for legitimate purposes.

That's why.

Easy to lose sight of that when people are just frantically posting every single negative story they can find. (also, the OP is sort of in support of a 10 round mag limit, in recounting that it wasn't much of an inconvenience, which I agree with)

[CokeMachine]

5. Wow!!

Over the top much? I could say the same thing about your post/screed. You know there's a new group where you can go and never see something that you disagree with.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1262

[Control-Z]

8. All hail to CokeMachine!

The trusted voice on a democratic board!! You'll go down in history.

[CokeMachine]

16. Thanks for the kind words!!

I'm not the "The" voice, just one of many. In any case, I really appreciate your acknowledgment and compliments -- seriously!

[Control-Z]

17. Well there you go.

Another smart one.

[CokeMachine]

21. Thanks Again!

I'll admit I'm not as smart as you think you are though. It's good that you have a positive self image -- that's a good thing.

[Control-Z]

23. Hey,

you are welcome. Good night, now.

[geckosfeet]

9. Post police much? Perfectly acceptable relating of experience. You might

not relate to the experience but other people do.

[Control-Z]

12. Sure. DU is just bursting

at the seams with rah rah gun nutter talk. 20 kids get slaughtered by a gun nut and we all come out to talk about which slaughter weapon we had fun using over the weekend and how "girls in baseball caps holding weapons are cute".

You all should be ashamed. But you're not. And that was the question.

[geckosfeet]

14. I'm not ashamed. I did'nt shoot anyone. A reasonable argument could be made that

if someone in the building had been armed the tragedy could have been less catastrophic. That would make gun grabbers and obstructionists more to blame than law abiding gun owners.

[Control-Z]

20. You have to live with yourself.

I don't.

"I'm not ashamed."

Now good-bye. I need to go to work. This hasn't been fun been all kinds of enlightening.

[geckosfeet]

24. Oh. Brother. Thanks for the pearls of wisdom.

Go grace your coworkers with self-righteous glow in the dark holier than thou effervescence.

BTW - I live with myself just fine.

[CobblePuller]

29. O.K., I guess I need to ask another question.

What did her post have to do with a criminal action?

[CobblePuller]

30. "You should all be ashamed."

Whutevah, Mrs. Grundy.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

36. I have nothing to be ashamed of and I refuse to feel ashamed.

Your signature says "Trust Women" and yet, you do not.

The rifle was very easy to handle which means less fumbling which means greater safety. That can only be a benefit. It is also easier to fire. The entire point of the exercise -- begun at MY behest just over 2 weeks ago -- was to de-mystify these guns. I had never fired one before. The first time I went shooting (around 2 years ago) I had a chance to do so and chose not to because it seemed too intimidating. I wanted to make sure that my feelings were justified and not the product of hype and prejudice.

As I said in the OP, after firing one I understand why so many women advocate for them. The .223 is as gneder-neutral a device as one might hope to find. If you truly believe in trusting women take their word for it. Better yet, set aside your preconceptions and shoot one for yourself. It doesn't matter if you're not an avid shooter; I'm not either. This is the 4th time in my entire life I've ever gone shooting and to be honest it's not my bag. But if you examine the issue from the mindset of "is this easier, safer and more accurate to use" then you can say you formed an honest opinion. For me the answer was obvious even though it is not the thing I choose to keep in my own life.

If saving young lives is what truly motivates you perhaps you will take-up the cause of underage drinking which kills the equivalent of 4.5 Sandy Hook episodes EVERY WEEK.

Nor will I be embarrassed about having an affectionate husband.

[CobblePuller]

47. Well done! n/t

[cherokeeprogressive]

58. + a quadrillion.

[hack89]

41. No reason to be ashamed

you don't like guns and pro-gun Democrats. Got it.

[premium]

54. I'm not ashamed.

Granted, I don't even own any of those weapons, but why should anyone be ashamed of having fun shooting a new weapon?

[holdencaufield]

15. Ooo! Oooo! I know!

Because it ISN'T "... being crushed by a handful of desperate gun caressing lunatics"?



And, in fact, recreational shooting is a pastime enjoyed by millions of Americans of all political stripes. Get past your hatred and exclusion-ism and join your fellow Americans in a enjoyable activity -- or not, it's up to you.

[Control-Z]

22. Yes, dear.

My fellow Americans are not into shooting for family fun but "girls in baseball caps holding weapons are cute". Dead give away. Now, good-night.

[holdencaufield]

25. Both my wife and daughter are avid shooters ...

... but neither, to my knowledge, ever wear baseball caps.

[spin]

26. Perhaps you need to consider the post more carefully. ...

The poster was wondering what "all the fuss was about." She had an opportunity to try an AR-15 style rifle and took it.

She found the recoil level to be "practically non-existent." Nothing surprising there. While in basic training in the Air Force during the Vietnam era, we practiced with the M16 which had the ability to fire in both semi-automatic and full automatic mode. An instructor showed the class the low level of recoil by placing the butt of his M16 against his chin and firing a round. I would never want to try that trick with my bolt action 6.5X.55mm Swedish Mauser or my son in law's 30-30 lever action rifle.

She also discovered that the rifle is very accurate and far more accurate than the pistols which she had shot previously, which again is no surprise. The longer sight radius of a rifle does make accurate shooting at a distance easier. Accurate shooting with a revolver or pistol, even at close range, is difficult for many.

Perhaps because Joe Biden suggested that a 12 gauge shotgun was easier for a woman to shoot than an assault style rifle, she tried one. After just 2 shots she realized that a 12 gauge shotgun has a nasty recoil and ended up with a bruise. Fortunately someone must have instructed her to hold it tightly against her shoulder and brace for the recoil or she might have ended up on her butt.

I would be willing to bet that if 100 inexperienced shooters tried both an AR-15 and a 12 gauge shotgun, 99 would report the same results as the poster. Perhaps 80 would be surprised at how much fun they actually had.

I should also remind you that in this group on DU, posters are allowed to debate in favor of both sides of the gun control debate. A significant percentage of Democrats own firearms and support gun rights. It is true that over my lifetime this percentage has decreased dramatically. I suppose that it is possible that in some time in the future no gun owners will be Democrats but in my opinion that will be a sad day. Our party will no longer be a big tent.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

38. Apart from knocking Mr. Biden I think you summation is very accurate.

Thank-you.

[spin]

40. Thanks. While I personally like Joe Biden, I fear his advice on firearms is flawed. ...

I do not disagree that a double barreled 12 gauge shotgun is an excellent home defense weapon. I own a coach gun myself for that purpose. It could be argued that it is easy to load and if you aim it, it is possibly the most lethal close range weapon you can own to stop an attack.

Unfortunately it has a strong recoil that is intimidating to many newbie shooters. It takes practice to learn how to overcome this recoil and as you found the practice can be painful. I should also point out that the AR-15 is not the best weapon to use for home defense in an urban environment as the rounds you fire may penetrate your neighbor's home. It is more suited for self defense in a very rural environment.

Joe also advised going on a balcony and firing two blasts from your double barreled shotgun to scare away intruders. He also mentioned that one tactic to stop a home invasion was to shoot through a door. That advise can land you in a heap of trouble with the local authorities in many areas of our nation.

As far as shooting through the door to stop an intruder, that intruder might be your drunk next door neighbor who mistook your house for his. It might be a foolish 15 year old who would run or surrender if you had simply called the police and waited for him to make entry. Never, ever shoot at someone unless you are absolutely certain that he actually threatens your life or your health.

The last thing you should ever hope to do is to have to injure or kill another person even if you are entirely within your right and he is attacking you with the intention of severely injuring or killing you and has the capability to do so. The psychological aftereffects of doing so can haunt you for the rest of your life.

[CobblePuller]

28. First, you explain what her post had to do with "lunatics".

Then we'll talk.

Have a great night.

[GreenStormCloud]

43. Who appointed you DU-Zampolit? N/T

[Eleanors38]

44. You fear disagreement. You fear diversity. You fear self-empowerment.

I get that. But what about the OP did you find so objectionable? The cactus injuries?

[premium]

53. And just who are you to be telling another member

what she can or cannot post?
In case you hadn't noticed, this is the Gun Control & RKBA group, if you don't like what you read, then the simple solution is, don't click on the link, ergo, problem solved.

[petronius]

7. Cool - I'm glad you had a safe and enjoyable family/friend gathering!

Except for the cactus of course...

[oneshooter]

13. Don't pay attention to the zampolit. If you had a good time, and learned something,

all while having a good time with family and friends, it's priceless.

[Duckhunter935]

27. Glad you had a good time

I too enjoy shooting. I have one of those scary rifles. Colt (LE6920) M4 civilian model. Fine weapon to shoot.

[armueller2001]

49. Make sure you keep it wrapped in tin foil during storage.

Don't want the mind control rays to get out and make you shoot people. According to some posters on here, those rifles are EXTRA dangerous so I'd be careful.

[CobblePuller]

31. Hey now, don't be heretical.....

A shotgun is the only defensive weapon you need.

According to some.....

[mwrguy]

32. Are you mocking our Vice President?

I'm sorry yours didn't get elected, but leave ours alone.

[holdencaufield]

37. Mock someone who suggests ...

... shooting blindly through a door at an unseen target is an effective and desirable self-defence strategy?!

Never!

[Eleanors38]

45. Well, there is the bit about shooting through doors.

[CobblePuller]

46. I voted for him...

...but on this subject, he's hung his ass out multiple times and should really shut up and sit on his hands now.

[cherokeeprogressive]

59. ANYONE who advocates shooting at noises on the other side of a door deserves to be mocked. ANYONE.

[ileus]

33. It's nice to hear the human side of the 2A here....thank you for sharing.

DU needs more stories of this nature.

[krispos42]

34. Locking

Posts about recreational sports, including hunting and target shooting, properly belong in Outdoor Life Group, not in GC&RKBA. You are welcome to repost it there.

Regards,
Krispos42, Group Host

[krispos42]

35. Unlocking

The OPer agreed to make the OP fit into the SoP of the Group if I unlocked it.

Regards,
Krispos42, Group Host

[Nuclear Unicorn]

39. This is why I voted for you for Noblest, Wisest, Most Generous forum host of 2013

You're not really buying this, are you?

Thank-you anyway!

[Lurks Often]

42. Thank you!

Thank you for having the courage to actually find out what all the talk is about and not be bound by the pre-conceived notions of others.


As an aside, the shotgun stock is almost certainly too long for someone of your height. I know a number of women competitive shooters your height and even smaller, some in their 60's, who have a shotgun stock cut to fit them. Once the stock is properly fitted and with proper ammo selection, your ability to handle it without bruises and discomfort would drastically improve.

[sir pball]

50. Just to be a pedantic technical hair-splitting gun nut

The 3-round groups they use "in the army" are 3-round bursts; i.e. pull the trigger once and three rounds come out - which would mean you were shooting an actual M4. 3-round sighting groups are standard practice across the board, from a .223 carbine up to a .338 Ultra Mag bolt-action bench gun. Five if you're "shooting for groups" to demonstrate accuracy, but three shows where the sope is pointing perfectly well.

Other than that, glad you had a good time and I'm shocked, SHOCKED that you had the immense force of will to resist TEH EBIL and not gun down the world!

[Nuclear Unicorn]

51. No, I was taking slow, measured shots; one at a time.

I know army rifles have a 3-round burst capability but we would fire 3 rounds and then draw lines to connect each bullet hole. I was able to get pretty good groups within a 1-inch area by the 2nd set and the rest was adjusting the sights.

I don't want to play my-technical-expert-can-beat-up-your-technical-expert but I'm pretty sure what my husband taught me was the "according to Hoyle" method for aligning the sights for my use.

Thank-you for your kind comments.

[sir pball]

52. i was playing to the stereotype

Correcting a gross misconception about guns (like the "once the bullets are fired the magazines are used up&quot is being a "gun nut obsessed with a minor technical detail" so I decided to play around with a truly insignificant bit.

(And rereading your OP I had a bit of a hallucination, I thought you said "bursts" where you said "groups" )

[Nuclear Unicorn]

56. From what I know about guns and shooting I'm surprised I correctly used "groups" instead of "bursts"

Technically speaking, I'm technically-challenged.

[premium]

55. Glad you had fun and learned something more about firearms. nt.

[Trunk Monkey]

60. The Army doesn't zero their weapons on 3 round bursts.

They zero on semi automatic just like every one else using three round shot groups.

[sir pball]

61. Of course. I just thought OP was conflating "group" and "burst"

And was even mistaken about that. Oh well...it was a late Friday night.

[Trunk Monkey]

62. No biggie NT

[markboxer]

63. Why???

Guns are made for bringing death. How could you even feel good about yourself after touching it. did you wash your hands

[Nuclear Unicorn]

64. I washed my hands because they were covered in gun oil

because you thoroughly clean a weapon after every trip to the range to ensure optimal reliability.

Or is that not what you meant?

[jpak]

65. I luv Gun Porn

yup

[sarisataka]

66. The first step to recovery

is admitting you have a problem.

I bet if you ask, someone here will sponsor you on the road back from your addiction to gun porn

[CokeMachine]

67. That explains a lot about you. Glad you finally admitted it. eom