Mideast: Haaretz justifies Palestinian stone-throwing

[shira]

(ANSAmed) - TEL AVIV, APRIL 3 - The Israeli right has reacted with outrage to an article by Amira Hass published in the Wednesday issue of the daily Haaretz, in which the author theorized the right of Palestinians to throw stones at occupation forces in the West Bank. ''Throwing stones is the birthright and duty of anyone subject to foreign rule,'' wrote Hass, a member of the Israeli far left.

''Throwing stones is an action as well as a metaphor of resistance''. On Tuesday an Israeli court found a Palestinian guilty of homicide for throwing a stone at an Israeli vehicle traveling in the opposite direction. The driver lost control of the vehicle and both he and his small son lost their lives in the accident.

The online article is followed by rapidly multiplying angry comments, with some claiming that the article constitutes an incitement to kill. (ANSAmed).

https://www.ansa.it/ansamed/en/news/nations/israel/2013/04/03/Mideast-Haaretz-justifies-Palestinian-stone-throwing_8494918.html

[ProgressiveProfessor]

1. One of the fascinating things about the Israeli media is that both sides get to post their views

in Haaretz or the other outlets. Never see anything like that here in the US.

[Riftaxe]

27. Well, we do get two extreme "news" channels

if you watch them both, you will come up with half the truth and an 1/16th of the context...to put it politely.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

28. When in DC I would read about events I had been at in the WashPost and WashTimes

Neither of them were even close to what had happened.

[azurnoir]

2. Thanks shira your OP here illustrates this oh so well

What do 'pro-Israel' image-mongers actually stand for?
So that’s what this is all about? The conversation over Israel has levitated from policy itself (like the occupation, stupid) to the meta-argument over whether Israel’s image is fairly or unfairly portrayed, to the meta-meta (uber-meta? meta squared?) conversation of whether the pro-Israel camp (a flawed euphemism for pro-occupation) is fairly or unfairly portrayed by the liberal camp, and whether those liberals are fairly or unfairly being called anti-Israel, anti-Semitic, Iran-loving and by association, nuclear-destruction-second-Holocaust-of-Israel extra-terrestrials (all but the final moniker is a paraphrase of Block’s quote in the article – but trust me, it’s there by implication).

Although I work on campaigns for a living, in which images and communications are integral to the effort to connect elites with the public, the question of imaging Israel has gone far, far too far.

I dare each camp to say what it really stands for regarding Israel, and while we’re at it, for the Palestinians too – since Israel does in fact control them. Specifically, I dare the other side to stop trying to distract the conversation, along with millions and millions of dollars, by mumbling about meta-meta. I’ll start! Here’s what I stand for: ending the occupation, preserving and salvaging Israel’s democracy, equality and human rights in every society where I can have an influence. That means mainly in Israel, but since I view Israelis and Palestinians as intertwined under any circumstances, I feel somewhat responsible for both.

I dare the pro-Israel camp to say what it stands for. Members of that camp have created a wildly polarized, self-important discourse (after meeting one recently, he tweeted his surprise to find that I was not a “bat-shit crazy leftie”); so I would have to guess that they are diametrically opposed to everything I believe. That makes the “pro-Israel” camp pro-occupation, anti-democracy, anti-equality, for a pre-emptive strike on Iran even if it happens unilaterally and the Middle East becomes Armageddon. Go on guys, say what you really think: I dare you. And if you can’t, then spend those dollars on some starving people.

http://972mag.com/what-do-pro-israel-image-mongers-actually-stand-for/68549/


1

[shira]

3. Criticize, don't demonize, don't defame, don't slander, don't hate. n/t

[azurnoir]

4. yes but **cough** someone here does not seem to recognize the diffrerence

even they are doing it themselves to Palestinians

eta but once again thanks

[shira]

5. The articles I post are honest and accurate....

There are no lies and slander intended to make the casual reader think worse of the Palestinians.

OTOH, just about everything you and yours post here contains some lie, exaggeration, or slander intended deliberately to either stoke hatred of Israel and its people or whitewash malicious intent (one state) that would result in war..

[Jefferson23]

6. lol

Reminds me of Fox News, they need to tell their audience over and over again as a cable news source
they're Fair and Balanced...before they proceed not to be.

[shira]

7. What do u think of the OP? Did Amira Hass go too far in your opinion? n/t

[Jefferson23]

8. Your OP does not provide a link to the article itself, no surprise...just like Fox News.

[shira]

10. 972 must be like Fox News too....similar article with link to Haaretz

http://972mag.com/settlers-accuse-haaretz-of-calling-for-violence-against-them/68596/

Same question as before. Did Hass go too far?

[azurnoir]

11. here is a snip from the Ha'aretz article IMO Haas was honest if that means going too far

to you so be it

Often hurling stones is borne of boredom, excessive hormones, mimicry, boastfulness and competition. But in the inner syntax of the relationship between the occupier and the occupied, stone-throwing is the adjective attached to the subject of “We’ve had enough of you, occupiers.”

After all, teenagers could find other ways to give vent to their hormones without risking arrests, fines, injuries and death.

Even if it is a right and duty, various forms of steadfastness and resisting the foreign regime, as well as its rules and limitations, should be taught and developed. Limitations could include the distinction between civilians and those who carry arms, between children and those in uniform, as well as the failures and narrowness of using weapons.

It would make sense for Palestinian schools to introduce basic classes in resistance: how to build multiple “tower and stockade” villages in Area C; how to behave when army troops enter your homes; comparing different struggles against colonialism in different countries; how to use a video camera to document the violence of the regime’s representatives; methods to exhaust the military system and its representatives; a weekly day of work in the lands beyond the separation barrier; how to remember identifying details of soldiers who flung you handcuffed to the floor of the jeep, in order to submit a complaint; the rights of detainees and how to insist on them in real time; how to overcome fear of interrogators; and mass efforts to realize the right of movement. Come to think of it, Palestinian adults could also make use of these lessons, perhaps in place of their drills, training in dispersing protests, and practice in spying on Facebook posts.

When high school students were drafted two years ago for the campaign of boycotting settlement products, it seemed like a move in the right direction. But it stopped there, without going further, without broadening the context. Such lessons would have been perfectly in tune with the tactics of appealing to the United Nations ? civil disobedience on the ground and defiance of power in diplomacy.

http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/the-inner-syntax-of-palestinian-stone-throwing.premium-1.513131

[shira]

12. what else do Palestinians have a "right" to do besides throwing rocks?

where is the line drawn?

[azurnoir]

13. it was drawn in Hass's article she outlined a number of methods

it seems any resistance bothers you, tell what did Palestinian Jews do to their British rulers?

[shira]

14. So stop pretending you're against violence and killing, which happens w/ stoning....

Last edited Thu Apr 4, 2013, 07:45 AM - Edit history (1)

And don't pretend the rock throwers are merely resisting occupation. If they just wanted their own state, that could have happened as far back as 1937. It's not about their own state and you know that. The problem is with Israel's very existence, and it's been that way from the start.

I'm not against all types of resistance, but if you want to know what peaceful, non-violent resistance looks like, then here's an example from the J14 protests in Tel Aviv.

[Jefferson23]

16. Complete horse shit accusations. Rock throwing freaks you out, the occupation to continue to secure

land that does not belong to Israel..you're ok with. Peace Later campaign, you're a faithful, I believe.

Settlers are armed, that's dandy too.

[shira]

17. You're for violent resistance vs. civilians, i.e. war crimes.

Why not just admit it?

[azurnoir]

20. you could not possibly have posted that for my benefit

Last edited Fri Apr 5, 2013, 12:51 AM - Edit history (1)

J14 was Israeli citizens protesting housing if memory serves some poor man by the name of Moshe Silman immolated himself as a part of these protests and none violent

On Friday, June 22nd, children, women, elderly and worried citizen were violently beaten because they executed the most basic right – the right to protest. Bleeding legs and many arrested protesters was the outcome of our attempts to place a tent in the boulevard. The disproportionate use of power and the oppression that we, the citizens of Israel, received today is a violent attempt of the Israeli regime to crush us. They took our apartments, our jobs, our right to live in dignity, our future, hope – and now they're trying to take away our freedom. Get up from your sofa, from the television, A/C's and shopping malls. Come out from your cars, break the walls, and rise with us – proud and determined for the struggle for our future.

In response, thousands hit the streets of Tel Aviv. More than 80 protesters were arrested after heavy violence erupted between protesters and cops. Bank windows were shattered and hundreds blocked two major roads and the Ayalon highway. Slogans such as “the people demand social justice”, “all the people are the opposition” and “the people demand democracy” were chanted throughout the evening.

Here are some tweets and images from Tel Aviv. Orly Barlev writes [heb]:

http://globalvoicesonline.org/2012/06/24/israel-violent-protests-across-tel-aviv-j14/

The Israeli governments answer was to build additional settlement housing

[shira]

25. The J14 protest, just like PeaceNow rallies are non-violent.

What you support is violence even against civilians, and worse, you pretend it's non-violent.

[azurnoir]

35. you were just shown that the J14 protests were indeed violent

but once again answer please how did the Jewish Palestinians `treat their British colonial masters ?

[Jefferson23]

15. No, 972 is NOT like Fox News, this OP, NOT YOURS, has a link directly to the Harretz article..

as it should.

The dishonest garbage you post, of which you asked my opinion, gives a snip of what
she wrote..no link. People are suppose to trust your source and not read the article
she wrote..I doubt you even read it.

All you needed to read was any stupid defense of Israeli policy and you create a thread about it.


Your question is posed in the affirmative as if I agree she is guilty of what you suggest,
she is not..just more of your nonsense.

Amira Hass: When high school students were drafted two years ago for the campaign of boycotting settlement products, it seemed like a move in the right direction. But it stopped there, without going further, without broadening the context. Such lessons would have been perfectly in tune with the tactics of appealing to the United Nations ? civil disobedience on the ground and defiance of power in diplomacy.

So why are such classes absent from the Palestinian curriculum? Part of the explanation lies with the opposition of the donor states and Israel’s punitive measures. But it is also due to inertia, laziness, flawed reasoning, misunderstanding and the personal gains of some parts of society. In fact the rationale for the existence of the Palestinian Authority engendered one basic rule in the last two decades ? adaptation to the existing situation. Thus, a contradiction and a clash have been created between the inner syntax of the Palestinian Authority and that of the Palestinian people.

[shira]

18. What she wrote is gross and you defend it....

Even if it is a right and duty, various forms of steadfastness and resisting the foreign regime, as well as its rules and limitations, should be taught and developed. Limitations could include the distinction between civilians and those who carry arms, between children and those in uniform, as well as the failures and narrowness of using weapons.

Could? Not "should"?

You and her both support war crimes.

Seems you guys are the Right-wingers.

[azurnoir]

21. I do realize Ms Hass has been a target of the 'ProIsrael' community for quite sometime now

but to call her supporting war crimes is OTT by far

[Jefferson23]

22. OMG, did she really say THAT! WOW.

You better write B'Tselem, get them right on her for incitement and war crimes.

Get back to me when you have heard back.

[shira]

23. Yeah, it's so bad you won't defend it....

And you'll wait until B'tselem or some other organization you approve of condemns it or gives you "permission" to do so. You can't act on your own.

Herd mentality and all...

[azurnoir]

34. OMG she said could rather than should

call the ICC quick

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

19. Honest and accurate, even if you can only pull one sentence out of a whole article

while the rest is anathama to you.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=32095

"Also, I didn't know I had to agree with everything in an article in order to pull some truths out of it."

[shira]

24. So you believe an article is honest and accurate if it contains some truths....

...but multiple lies as well.

Is that correct?

It's the thought that matters?

=======

In my opinion, a bigoted, piece of garbage anti-Israel article that is 99% bullshit and hate may still contain 1% truth in it. I see nothing wrong pointing that out.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

30. You use EoZ in your posts, but claim that what you post is

"honest and accurate."

[shira]

31. I think I've used EoZ no more than 1-2 times ever here....

...and he is more honest and accurate than all your garbage sources.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

32. Ynet is garbage? Really? Do go on.

[Riftaxe]

29. Pro Israel monger checking in!

I suspect you have not a clue as to what that means.

Like a true zealot you will assume that means I support everything that the Israeli Government does. After all, they are all just ______ to you, the fact that there could be disagreement among Israelis on many things is beyond belief .

It is just easier for your type to assume that, and if it helps 'ya sleep at night, call me a pro Israel monger.

Let's face it, you do not deal in facts because then you would be in the awkward position of defending PA actions...now that would be a bit tricky.


The usual course is you attack me on religon...bleh bleh, i have none, don't believe, don't disbelieve...personally i really find no point in either position.

[azurnoir]

33. first off what religion would I supposedly be attacking you on ?

and yes I deal in facts just ones you do not like

defend the PA? why should I not be able to sleep at night?

and your own lack of knowledge shows here of course Israeli's disagree politically take opposite ends the spectrum such as Moshe Feiglin and Uri Avnery

now that you got all that off your chest so to speak I invite you to come back and answer some quesions starting with the first I asked you

[Riftaxe]

26. I am getting on in my years,

yet no one who defends such silliness will take me up on throwing an 8oz (a mere 8oz stone) at their forehead...If you forget physics, and intent...it takes a special kind of stupidity to ignore the result.

It is not a metaphor, it is a violent assault with the intent to kill.