How to write about Muslims

[Jefferson23]

Media depictions of Muslims kill two birds with one stone, justifying oppression at home and imperial devastation abroad

Last Modified: 31 Mar 2013 11:19


A study commissioned by the Greater London Authority of 352 articles over a randomly selected one week period in 2007, found that 91 percent of articles about Muslims were "negative" [Getty Images]

Belen Fernandez is the author of The Imperial Messenger: Thomas Friedman at Work, published by Verso. She is a contributing editor at Jacobin Magazine.


*The Western press and social media often seem to exercise two options for dealing with the Muslim population of the world: overt, unabashed Islamophobia or slightly subtler Islamophobia.

As Georgetown University's John L Esposito writes in the foreword to Nathan Lean's The Islamophobia Industry: How the Right Manufactures Fear of Muslims, 9/11 and other terror attacks "have exacerbated the growth of Islamophobia exponentially" and resulted in a situation in which "Islam and the Middle East often dominate the negative headlines", thanks in part to the calculated machinations of "a number of journalists and scholars".

Needless to say, the aftermath of 9/11 did not yield much thoughtful consideration on the part of the mainstream punditry as to the context for such events. According to one prominent narrative, 9/11 was simply evidence of an inherent and unfounded Muslim hatred of the West.

A notable exception was veteran British journalist Robert Fisk. In an article published in The Nation immediately following the attacks, Fisk issued the following prescient warning:

remainder: http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2013/03/20133317493211602.html

[azurnoir]

1. I agree it is to the extent that

even here on a progressive site like DU it is a problem, once when someone had the audacity to run a meta thread about it, that he saw a problem with Islamophobia here on DU, I was admonished that Islamophobia should be considered a liberal value, that how could one be indeed a liberal or a progressive and not absolutely hate Islam

[Jefferson23]

2. Ignorance abounds..sad. n/t

[Dick Dastardly]

55. So true. Ignorance abounds. Only those who know the words of

J.R. Bob Dobbs (praise his sweet name) are free from the rampant ignorance in the world. The Church of the Subgenious is the only true religion and the only one that speaks the truth. Those who reject the words of Bob face the Stark Fist of Removal and burning in eternal slacklessness.




The Book of the SubGenius are the words of JR Bob Dobbs (Praise his sweet name). J.R. "Bob" Dobbs, that LIVING GOD WHO WALKS THIS PLANET EARTH IN HUCKSTER'S SHOES founded The Church of the SubGenius.
The world is a turkey, and "Bob" gives you the carving knife.
You are guaranteed salvation or 3 times your money back!



The TriPrimality:

"Bob" is.
"Bob" becomes.
"Bob" is not.
Nothing is; Nothing becomes;
Nothing is not.

Thus: Nothing Is Everything.
Therefore: Everything is "Bob."
Abracadabra.



Pity the poor human Earth Pink who comes looking for a SIMPLE, SHORT EXPLANATION of The Church of the SubGenius™, one that he or she can UNDERSTAND QUICKLY. If the Church could provide THAT, it would be bigger than Islam or Christianity by now -- and probably much, much worse.

A True SubGenius, however, understands EVERYTHING, INSTANTLY upon exposure to the Word or even just the Face of Dobbs.


ARE YOU ABNORMAL?

Then you are probably BETTER than most people!

IF you suspect that things are much worse than you ever suspected...
IF the only thing you've been able to laugh at for the last 5 years is the fact that NOTHING is funny anymore...
IF you sometimes want to collar people on the street and scream that you're more different than they could possibly imagine...
IF you can possibly help us with a donation...
IF you see the whole universe as one vast morbid sense of sick humor...
IF the current "Age of Progress" seems more like the Dark Ages to you...
IF you are looking for an inherently contradictory religion that will condone megadegeneracy and yet tell you that you are "above" everyone else...
Then...

THE CHURCH OF THE SUBGENIUS could save your sanity!

Your secret wishes can be granted in full once you know what they are!


"You'll PAY to know what you REALLY think."-J.R. "Bob" Dobbs, 1961

NOW, AT LAST! The step-by-step process is revealed! THIS IS IT! The only "faith" that promises ACTION, THRILLS, SUCCESS IN SEX AND BUSINESS!



links

http://www.subgenius.com/slaq.htm

[Jefferson23]

56. What do you think is in that pipe? n/t

[Dick Dastardly]

57. Hopefully something good

btw
I like this quote from Howard Stern

I'm sickened by all religions. Religion has divided people. I don't think there's any difference between the pope wearing a large hat and parading around with a smoking purse and an African painting his face white and praying to a rock.

Howard Stern

[Mosby]

3. what does this have to do with the IP group?

[Jefferson23]

4. If you can't figure it out, I certainly can't help you. n/t

[Scootaloo]

5. More than articles about beauty queens.

[Mosby]

6. she is an Israeli at least

This OP is a religion post, not IP.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

7. Which means nothiing in the great scheme of things

related to the I/P conflict. Right?

But back to splitting hairs.

[azurnoir]

8. are you denying that Islam or what are claimed as offcial practices of Islam

have never been made an issue here on I/P?

[King_David]

9. Yes and I think the Jewish group should merge into IP too nt

[Jefferson23]

11. You are denying it, to her question?

The OP is appropriate here. Feel free to post it anywhere else you like.

snip* "[T]his is not really the war of democracy versus terror that the world will be asked to believe in the coming days. It is also about US missiles smashing into Palestinian homes and US helicopters firing missiles into a Lebanese ambulance in 1996 and American shells crashing into a village called Qana and about a Lebanese militia - paid and uniformed by America's Israeli ally - hacking and raping and murdering their way through refugee camps."

[azurnoir]

12. why? n/t

[Violet_Crumble]

13. It's telling that you never condemn Islamophobia...

And yr response to OPs about Islamophobia are not to talk about it, but to carry on about just about anything else. Despite the performance in this thread from you and one other, even though both of you have posted a lot in here about antisemitism and appear to have no objections to it being talked about that you do when it comes to Islamophobia, Islamophobia and antisemitism are both closely connected to the I/P conflict.

[King_David]

15. I agreed and that's why the Jewish group should merge with IP

No need for duplicity .

[Mosby]

20. There are a great number of posters here who have a problem with religion period.

and let's face it, they have a pretty good point, many religious traditions are intolerant, misogynistic, anti-science, promote historical revisionism and historical frauds, are anti-GLBT to the point of real persecution, anti-democracy, anti-pluralism and promote the use of religious authority to control their followers lives.

[LeftishBrit]

10. Well - to be fair, a lot of articles about antisemitism in Europe/America also end up here.

I think that both antisemitism and Islamophobia are relevant to a degree to the Middle East. Though they don't always take the same forms in the Middle East as they do in places where Jews and Muslims are minority groups.

[Violet_Crumble]

14. What did this OP you posted about Muslims and Jews in the UK have to do with the IP group?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/113414331

[Mosby]

16. those two terrorists are Jihadists.

Jihadism is mostly a political construct. The existence of Israel in the ME is a grave provocation to political Islam.

That's the association to the IP conflict.

[Mosby]

17. is this the kind of negative reporting the author is talking about?

Pakistani youth 'cool on democracy'

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/world-22001263

Those brits sure are islamophobic. Don't they know that democracy is a western concept?

[Jefferson23]

18. Thanks for making clear where you stand..not many posters would be that frank as

you have been in this thread.

[azurnoir]

19. actually that article was an LBN thread

here check out the discussion it does speak volumes

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014442402

[Jefferson23]

21. Thank you, and it does just that. n/t

[azurnoir]

23. the discussion there progressed a bit differently

than it would here my prediction is the words moral equivalency would have been thrown in somewhere along the line

[azurnoir]

22. Usually when we take a story from elesewhere on DU it is polite to give credit for that n/t

[Mosby]

25. I didn't find the story via DU.

Last edited Wed Apr 3, 2013, 09:31 PM - Edit history (1)

[azurnoir]

26. Really it's LBN n/t

[Mosby]

24. Islam has an image problem

Last edited Fri Apr 5, 2013, 11:41 AM - Edit history (1)

Since our host is going to allow religion threads in IP then let's have at it shall we?

Islam has an image problem IMO. I tend to think that this is because the fundy streams of the tradition are more vocal and also blend the religion with politics. As a result a lot of people associate Islamism and Jihadism with "mainstream" Islam which is a mistake. Another consideration is that Islam predominates in third world countries with long running tribal traditions so it can be difficult if not impossible to separate tribal traditions with religious ones. Regardless though, Islam has to own their image problems and accept that a good deal of it derives from what amounts to antisocial behaviors like extreme punishments and severe human rights abuses.

All people should be concerned with bigotry, whether it stems from a religion or someones reaction to it. Many Muslims in Europe in particular need to develop more tolerance towards non-believers and non-believers need to own up to the antisemitic and islamophobic attitudes seen so often in the region.

I also think that many European countries have done a very poor job assimilating immigrants into the dominate culture and as a result, second and third generation immigrants are not "emotionally invested" so to speak with the country they live in. This lack of shared cultural traditions leads to intolerance and bigotry among believers and non-believers.

thoughts anyone?

[Jefferson23]

27. Clarify for me, if you would. Your remark, Since our host is going to allow religion threads in IP..

Which host and the host informed you this OP is about religion, is that what you're
claiming?

[Mosby]

28. I alerted on your OP pretty soon after you posted it.

Lithos has had more than a day to lock it so I assume he's going to leave it.

I'm guessing you posted this piece here because you thought the regular IP posters should read it and would get something out of it. I have posted stuff in IP for that very reason also, but I try to post stuff where it should go, I enjoy participating in groups and will make the extra effort to find a relevent group to post in. For example I recently made a couple OPs in the Arizona group instead of GD because I want to support the AZ group and if I got a few less views oh well. I think a great many DUers could do a better job in that regard and group hosts should be encouraging this ideal, not ignoring the issue.

Religion is a very touchy subject at DU which is why religion posts are not allowed in LBN and GD (and most groups like IP) unless it's "big news". I think that's a sensible approach.

[Jefferson23]

29. I wanted to be clear about the communication you had with the host here.

The thread was not locked, that is true.

There was no confirmation from Lithos communicated to you this thread is about religion, correct?

[Mosby]

30. nope, no communication

But one would have to completely ignore reality not to see that your OP is about only one thing - religion.

[Jefferson23]

31. It was a confirmation I was looking for, if it was considered about religion by the host.

It was not, thank you, Mosby.

[delrem]

58. Judaism has an image problem

Since our host is going to allow religion threads in IP then let's have at it shall we?

Judaism has an image problem IMO. I tend to think that this is because the fundy streams of the tradition are more vocal and also blend the religion with politics. As a result a lot of people associate Judaism and Zionism with "mainstream" Judaism which is a mistake. Another consideration is that Judaism predominates in a world that has long running tribal traditions so it can be difficult if not impossible to separate tribal traditions with religious ones. Regardless though, Judaism has to own their image problems and accept that a good deal of it derives from what amounts to antisocial behaviors like extreme punishments and severe human rights abuses.

All people should be concerned with bigotry, whether it stems from a religion or someones reaction to it. Many Jews in Europe in particular need to develop more tolerance towards non-believers and non-believers need to own up to the antisemitic and islamophobic attitudes seen so often in the region.

I also think that many European countries have done a very poor job assimilating immigrants into the dominate culture and as a result, second and third generation immigrants are not "emotionally invested" so to speak with the country they live in. This lack of shared cultural traditions leads to intolerance and bigotry among believers and non-believers.

thoughts anyone?

[Mosby]

60. your change to my post is silly.

So silly I'm not going to bother with a substantive reply.

Cheers.

[delrem]

67. You can dish the prejudice out, but can't take the identical thing. nt

[shira]

32. Freedom of Expression, Multiculturalism and Political Islam

But for Islamism, a far-right political movement, and its apologists, this is business as usual. Islamism has been wreaking havoc in the Middle East, North Africa and elsewhere for several decades – with a majority of its victims being ‘Muslims’ or those labelled as such.

Where it has political power, Islamists forgo all niceties reserved for western public opinion about ‘respect’ and ‘not causing offence’ and imprison and murder anyone who speaks their minds and ‘offends’ their norms and sensibilities.

Despite their track record, it is therefore absurd how the fundamental debate on Islam and free expression here in Europe, North America and Australia is framed within a context of offence, racism and Islamophobia. Let me explain.

much, much more....
http://freethoughtblogs.com/maryamnamazie/2012/05/23/freedom-of-expression-multiculturalism-and-political-islam/

[Jefferson23]

33. You have no idea what she is about, do you, shira. You had thought her opinions

because was born Iranian would give credibility to your post.

It doesn't...the OP I posted is about bigotry perpetuated by others against Muslims in the media. It is not for
Muslims to clean up their religion so people will end their bigotry toward them...this is not about religion.

With that said, your friend has a lot of concerns about religion, in general.

Here she signed a petition against the Pope's state visit of the UK.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/sep/15/harsh-judgments-on-pope-religion

[shira]

36. Of course I do. I keep up with her work, you don't. She's your worst nightmare.

It doesn't...the OP I posted is about bigotry perpetuated by others against Muslims in the media. It is not for
Muslims to clean up their religion so people will end their bigotry toward them...this is not about religion.

She calls bullshit on that. Read the entire speech from my last post.

She's right. You're wrong.

[Jefferson23]

44. That's not surprising you'd keep up with her, lol. Pamela Geller does too.

Glad to know you have an affinity with her. This OP is about Western media bigotry, not religion, btw.

I have no idea what influence you imagine she has that she would be anyone's nightmare.

Clearly, her opinion, her lineage, is a dream come true for someone with your mindset.

[shira]

46. Yeah, and David Duke keeps up w/ your favorite sources...

She's not anti-Muslim, as she constantly criticizes the Right for their Muslim bashing - which you'd see if you read her works.

She also distinguishes b/w extreme Islamists and moderate Muslims, as she champions the latter's rights and tries defending them against the former.

Now you and your type think all Muslims are all the same, and that the moderates have no problem with the extremists. They're all just Muslims to you so you find any criticism or portrayals of extreme Islamists offensive (which is what the article is about, which you haven't read). It is you and yours who never criticize extreme Islamists for what they do vs. the moderates. You defend pretty much everything they (the extreme Islamists) do, b/c you fear criticizing them, thinking that if you do you are criticizing all Muslims. Which is why I believe you think all Muslims are the same....

[Jefferson23]

47. Oh this is rich, shira defending Muslims. The OP is about Western media bias, not religion.

David Duke keeps up with B'Tselem reports? I guess you would know.

[shira]

49. Maryam Namazie does, so your ad-hominems are crap....

Last edited Thu Apr 4, 2013, 10:22 PM - Edit history (1)

I have a problem with extreme Islamists.

Why don't you?

Oh, I know. You think the extreme Islamists in Palestine speak for all the people, as if all Muslim Palestinians are the same and enjoy being persecuted by their extreme leadership. Did you ever consider that there are many moderate/secular Palestinians against resistance who have a problem with your support of the extremists violating their rights?

What about them? Do they count in your view? Do you side more with the extremists than them?

[Jefferson23]

51. I know what you have a problem with, shira. It is evident in everyone of your posts and

it is evident on your transparency page.

Occupation good, Peace Later campaign good, armed settlers ok. Ok for Palestinian kids as young as 8, can be detained
with no attorney....because allegedly, they threw a rock.

Touche, shira. You avoided another OP about Western media bias with an individual you believe
supports you.

You live in Bizarro World...enjoy.

[shira]

69. You don't distinguish b/w extreme Islamists & moderate Muslims. WHY? n/t

[azurnoir]

38. Namazie claims to be a atheist

but IMO she's the Iranian version of Ayaan Hirsi Ali who also claims to be just an atheist

[shira]

40. She's admittedly a communist/marxist & proud of it. n/t

[Jefferson23]

45. You may find this interesting if you haven't already read it:

* The responses here so far are telling, Muslims are responsible for the bigotry placed upon them
by Western media.


Maryam Namazie and her allies

http://www.islamophobia-watch.com/islamophobia-watch/2011/8/19/maryam-namazie-and-her-allies.html

[shira]

48. You should criticize what she says, rather than attack the person.

When all you have are ad-hominems and lies, you don't have much, do you?

[Jefferson23]

53. There are no lies here, shira. If you read the article, you'd know that...but that is not what

you're trying to accomplish.

[shira]

70. The lie is that there's no distinction to be made b/w extreme Islamists and moderate Muslims. n/t

[Mosby]

34. Another negative piece about Muslims

Saudi Arabian paralysis sentence 'grotesque', says Foreign Office

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014444151

Why don't moderate and liberal Muslims speak out about stuff like this?

Why doesn't CAIR and the British version issue press releases condemning these barbaric practices?

[azurnoir]

35. "Why don't moderate and liberal Muslims speak out about stuff like this?" where have I read that b4?

hmmm

that is a common meme in some quarters

[Mosby]

37. this smear tactic of yours is lame.

Not to mention dishonest, I'm a real liberal az, even when we disagree.

[azurnoir]

39. yep I told about what "real liberal' values should include in Meta

[Mosby]

41. do you consider paralysis acceptable punishment?

Yes or No?

Stop with the bullshit diversions.

Yes or No?

Simple question any progressive can answer.

Yes or No?

[azurnoir]

42. No of course not

but do you believe that should be used as an example of Islam as a whole?

[Mosby]

43. No, I think I was pretty clear about fundies

I reject all religious fundamentalism, whether it's Islamic, Jewish, Christian or whatever.

[azurnoir]

50. I think we have a good example of what is considered acceptable to write about Muslims on DU

here it starts out comparing Muslims to Nazi's

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=38070

[Jefferson23]

52. Indeed. n/t

[King_David]

54. That's strange ,

Usually it's posters comparing Jews or Israelis to Nazis or white supremacy South Africa .

What you pointed to was an OP opinion piece .

[azurnoir]

59. so you think SA is the same as Nazi Germeny or just where Israel is involved?

but yes I've seen posters compare Israel to Nazi Germany and I've seen them PPRed for it too, more than once or twice but apparently comparing Arabs to Nazi's is okay seems a double standard to me but there it is

[King_David]

61. Who compared them to Nazis

Gimme a quote ...

You think comparing Jews to Nazis is the same as comparing any other group / ethnicity to Nazis ?

[azurnoir]

62. the OP in question started out of the gate with that

it's your OP so I would think you'd be aware of that

but here

On Apr. 1 1933, the Nazi regime implemented a nationwide boycott of Jewish businesses in Germany. Hitler’s Sturmabteilung storm troopers stood outside Jewish shops to prevent customers from entering, and vandals painted Jewish stars across doorways with slogans like “Germans! Defend yourselves! Do not buy from Jews” and “Go to Palestine!” This phenomenon quickly spread to other countries, with boycotts against Jews occurring in Poland and Hungary in 1935 and 1938, respectively.

and skips merrily to this

Unfortunately boycotts targeting Jews, are not a unique product of the Nazi regime. On Aug. 22 1922, the 5th Arab Congress met in Nabulus and passed the following resolutions: no land sales to Jews, no Jewish immigration, and the boycott of Jewish goods to oppose a national Jewish homeland.

[King_David]

63. Quote a comparison of Nazis to Muslims nt

[azurnoir]

64. I just added it :)

but please do tell us how that's not what was meant at all

[King_David]

65. Yes the BDS movement

.. Consists of different " well informed " people from different ethnicities and religions.

The Nazis were not the 1st and unfortunately not the last anti Semites around.

[azurnoir]

68. so it's the BDS movement which is Nazi like lol

well it would seem that it was quite important to your chosen author to link the 2 together start with Nazi's and then show how Arabs Muslims were much like them

[Jefferson23]

66. The fallacy of the phrase, 'the Muslim world'

Western media reinforces stereotypes by reducing a complex set of causes to the rage into an amorphous mass.

Last Modified: 16 Sep 2012 15:05

On September 12, the day after the attacks on the US diplomatic missions in Egypt and Libya, the New York Times set out to explain what it called the "anguished relationship between the United States and the Muslim world". According to the Times, the "Muslim world" was prone to outbursts of violence, and the reaction to the 14-minute anti-Islam movie trailer The Innocence of Muslims was both baffling and predictable. "Once again, Muslims were furious," wrote reporter Robert F Worth, "and many in the West found themselves asking why Islam seems to routinely answer such desecrations with violence."

Other media outlets echoed the claim that "the Muslim world" was consumed by anger, and had long been so. The Associated Press offered a look back at "Five other incidents that inspired rage in the Muslim world", crediting over a billion people for the actions of a few thousand in their search for historical continuity. Others took a psychoanalytic approach. "Why is the Muslim world so easily offended?" asked Washington Post columnist Fouad Ajami. "Madness in the Muslim World: Help Me Understand," pleaded a blogger for the Houston Chronicle.

It is time to retire the phrase "the Muslim world" from the Western media. Using the phrase in the manner above disregards not only history and politics, but accurate reporting of contemporary events. The protests that took place around the world ranged in scale and intensity, in the participants' willingness to use violence, and in their rationales. The majority of the "Muslim world" did not participate in these protests, nor did all of the Muslims who protested the video advocate the bloodshed that took place in Libya.


By reducing a complex set of causes and conflicts to the rage of an amorphous mass, the Western media reinforce the very stereotype of a united, violent "Muslim world" that both the makers of the anti-Islam video and the Islamist instigators of the violence perpetuate.

Misleading generalisations

snip* http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2012/09/20129168313878423.html