Penn Station vs Madison Square Garden

[marmar]

Nearly half a century after Madison Square Garden was built atop Pennsylvania Station, time may be running out for "the world's most famous arena." On Wednesday, the Garden's operators go before the City Planning Commission to renew the special permit that allows them to run the facility in the heart of Manhattan. MSG executives fully expect the permit to be renewed in perpetuity. But suddenly, it looks like that might not happen.

After decades of complaints about increasingly cramped conditions in Penn Station, a loose coalition of civic groups, transit advocates and political leaders is gaining traction in its efforts to force the Garden to move so that the station down in its basement can expand. In recent weeks, an effort to limit the permit to 10 years has been embraced by a group snowballing in size, ranging from The New York Times editorial page to Manhattan Borough President Scott Stringer and some powerful builders.

"It is an extraordinarily critical site in the city, and it cannot continue to be used as is," developer Jonathan Rose said. His cousin Joe Rose, the former city planning commissioner, also supports moving the Garden.

The commission, which sources said had been leaning toward simply rubber-stamping MSG's request, may yet decide to add a time stamp to it. Whatever happens, this could well become the most titanic contest the Garden has seen since Ali vs. Frazier went into the history books there in 1971. .........................(more)

The complete piece is at: http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article/20130407/REAL_ESTATE/304079966

[Renew Deal]

1. I'm in Penn Station all the time and I don't think it's over crowded

It is crowded, especially when trains aren't running, but it's still easy to move around in there, especially during non-peak hours.

[marmar]

2. True.....It's indeed busy, but nothing compared to say......

Gare du Nord in Paris or Victoria Station in London.

[happyslug]

3. Traffic is expected to EXPAND over the next 20 years.

When Penn Station was torn down in the 1960s, Passenger train service was expected to end within ten years. Amtrak was suppose to be something to leave passenger train travel to die out with the minimum of protests by showing how the Government tried to save it and could not (unfortunately for the plan, train travel increased in the 1970s due to the first oil crisis, something no one who was involved in setting up Amtrak expected).

Today, the reverse seems to be the case, it is Auto and Air traffic that seems to have peaked, leaving any expansion to the passenger rail. Thus the call for a new railroad Tunnel from New Jersey (that Governor Christie killed) and other connections, using Penn Station and Grand Central Station as the bases for those additional trains.

Remember, right now, the number of trains are maxed out the Present Penn Central Station and thus it has to be expanded IF addiitional trains are added (and most people expect them to be). Thus an expansion of Penn Station has been in the works for decades:

Since 1976, the station has seen weekday train movements increase 89%, from 661 to 1,248, and is considered to be at capacity. In 2010, the station saw 550,000 daily boardings/alightings

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gateway_Project


More on the Cross Harbour Rail Tunnel:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-Harbor_Rail_Tunnel

an along the entire east side, and the Westclox "Big Ben" clock over the south concourse.
Amtrak left the station on April 7, 1991, with the completion of the Empire Connection, which allowed trains from Albany, Toronto, and Montreal to use Penn Station. Previously, travelers had to change stations via subway, bus, or cab. Since then, Grand Central has exclusively served Metro-North Railroad.