If you didn't already know...

[Bonobo]

how radical, paranoid, hate-filled and psychotic-sounding some of the bloggers in the radical feminist world are, here is a look. This person is complaining there their transgender hate speech was removed by Wordpress and goes on to "explain" or "Femsplain" as I like to say:

http://factcheckme.wordpress.com/2013/01/26/moron-patriarchal-purpose/

"Like the purpose of transgenderism, the purpose of the internet has been rape, and disseminating, normalizing and perpetuating men raping women across time and place. thats all. its been nothing more, and nothing less than that."

Or this:

"If it surprises (or enrages) men that we persevere in the face of their threatened and actualized violence, its only because they do not think we are human at all — but they are wrong about that. in reality, everything men do and everything men think is wrong."

Something familiar about that disjointed inability to form a complete sentence...

[Warren DeMontague]

1. The paranoia around TG people, in particular, is extra-extra-out there.

Here on Planet Earth, Gender Dysphoric (if that's still the phrase used) people are a very small minority, and one which have an INCREDIBLY tough row to hoe.

However, in the bubble of these folks, they're the advance stealth guard of the penis army. It's quite odd.

[Behind the Aegis]

2. It's out-right bigotry on two fronts.

There is the hate of men, and this hate of women who don't fit their (these bigots) standard. It is disgusting.

[Warren DeMontague]

3. It's kind of funny to complain about the existence of the internet AND getting kicked off it, though

I have no idea what wordpress's TOS are, but I'd imagine they must have been putting up some egregious shit to get shut down.

[Behind the Aegis]

4. THis person sounds demented, and I am not being hyperbolic.

She seems to feed off of bigotry. I didn't read all of her screeds, but damn...some really nasty stuff.

[Major Nikon]

9. This type of bigotry is surprisingly not all that uncommon within certain circles

There are those who reject, ostracize, and condem certain transgendered people for no other reason than the fact that they were born with a penis. The fact that these warped ideas enjoy so much acceptance from within the rad-fem community is very telling.

[Warren DeMontague]

21. it's hate. Hate, hate, and more hate.

A lot of hate. Hate is hate is hate.

Like the song says, "aint no time to hate"; life's too short.

Beyond that, though, I guess the truth is we really never know what motivates people. Or where they're coming from.

One of the things that has bothered me, around here, is seeing really nasty stuff be thrown at people -like some of the folks in this group- for no good reason at all.

Personally, I'm making a conscious effort to try to be more understanding- not of hate; or bloggers like this one-- but just in general.

I've been feeling bad about a hidden post I had a little while ago. I made a snarky, flip comment without knowing or understanding the person's backstory. I was actually on my way back to edit or delete it, because even with what little I knew it came out meaner than I intended- but before I did a jury hid it, and rightfully so.

It was not the worst thing that's ever been said on DU, but it was mean. I don't know if the person would want to hear it from me, but I do owe that member an apology.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

17. I got a steady diet of this in university, there are two perceived "issues"

The first is a belief that men become transgendered for the purpose of raping lesbians by deception. I'm not sure why a gentleman cuts his dick off if he still wishes to have sex with women, but whatever... that is what they were running with.

The second reason is that the transgendered embrace feminine gender roles making them every bit as ignorant and contemptible as any sorority girl. They had a pretty offensive term they preferred using to describe them.

But if Wordpress is cracking down, maybe somebody should point them to this gem:
https://radicalfeministmemes.wordpress.com/

[Major Nikon]

18. A third issue is they were born with a penis

Which is reason enough for some to hate.

[TreasonousBastard]

5. All this proves is that...

women are absolutely equal to men in their ability to go nutso, should they so choose to. While we probably should be aware that the fringes in all areas are out there, it's debatable just how seriously we should take them.

Just a quick peek around there and in the "intercourse" section (there's always gotta be an "intercourse" section) there's the obligatory Dworkin mention with...

"...and i have had some commenters here that advanced individualist arguments, when it came to PIV. “i like it, so i am going to continue to do it.” and thats a tough nut to crack. i mean really. i ”like it” too, under the right circumstances. i never said i didnt."

Sure is a tough nut to crack. Then, I stopped reading in the next paragraph when she said she just figured out that women aren't simply castrated men.

Huh? Just figured that out? Well, OK, maybe. if you started with the idea that we're identical except for the reproductive organs.

Anyway, there are plenty of people out there exercising free speech telling us that women are a lower sub-species, African Americans and Asians are inferior (or Causasions are the Devil) homosexuals are deviants, and every other sort of bigotry imaginable, so this just falls into the category of "OMG, when are we going to evolve out of this paleolithic mentality?"

[Tuesday Afternoon]

7. +1

[Major Nikon]

6. I hate to invoke this name...

But Iverglas was a defender of rad-fem transphobe ideas which ultimately led to her banning. She still has fans on this site to this day even though I can think of few forms of bigotry which are worse. It makes me wonder how many others here on DU harbor these warped views.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

8. one can be a fan of iverglas without condoning all her philosophies or bigotries. she was

a very worthy adversary in GC&RKBA.

one can admire her spirit without agreeing with her positions.

[Major Nikon]

10. I don't admire bigots

YMMV.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

11. and you obviously did not know how to educate or enlighten her, either ---

way to -totally- take it the wrong way. Have a Nice Day. Peace Out.

[Major Nikon]

12. Is there any other way to take it?

No other group receives as much hate and non-acceptance as transgendered people. As far as I'm concerned, on the shitbag scale I can't think of too many who rate lower than transphobes. Trying to parse out one bigot's ideas as admirable is like saying David Duke is really a great guy, but I'm just not down with all that racism stuff.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

13. for your information - I never saw her posts about transgendered people. I got to deal with

her vitriol for YEARS in GC&RKBA where she was allowed to abuse good Democrats because she was on the RIGHT side of the argument.

So, you see.

I look at her departure a little differently than some few other DUers.

[Major Nikon]

14. Not knowing she was a bigot at the time is certainly understandable

I'm just not sure how this applies now. If I found out my best friend was a transphobe bigot, I would disassociate myself from them and I certainly wouldn't call them admirable after the fact. You may feel differently, but I don't find anything admirable with those kind of bigots. As far as I'm concerned they are the worst sort of haters.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

15. obviously, I have disassociated from her. She is gone. Have a Nice Day. Peace Out.

deuces.

[opiate69]

20. How the hell does one "educate" an insufferable, pseudo-intellectual know it all?

[Tuesday Afternoon]

23. one doesn't anymore. since she pissed off the right people and has been PPRd.

[opiate69]

24. I don't for a second believe that she's truly gone..

I'm sure that, like her friends Sargasso Sea and eloriel, she still either drops in from time to time, or has her little band of co-conspirators keep her persona here alive & well.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

25. how about shooting me a link via PM next time

You see her. I would be very interested. I came to know her style from years ago arguing/discussing 2a. Thanks.

[opiate69]

27. Will do.

[opiate69]

28. Although really, Warren is the pro zombie hunter in these parts...

[Warren DeMontague]

30. In all fairness to iverglas, I haven't spotted her once since she's been banned, at least not AFAIK.

The last time "Sargasso Sea" came back she signed up as "Sargasso sea" so really it didn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out.

[opiate69]

31. Well.. there is one poster I suspect might be her, but ...

I've been told IPs have been checked and don't match..

[Warren DeMontague]

32. I suspect YOU are her!

Admit it. You're not fooling anyone.

[opiate69]

33. Shit!!! I thought I was you!!!!

WE ARE ALL IVERGLAS!!!! QUELLE SURPRISE!!!!

[Warren DeMontague]

34. You are, man

It's DU as metaphor for the soul's circle of birth and rebirth.



We're all the same "repeat disruptor", signing up, getting banned, signing up again.

[opiate69]

35. !

Today a young man on acid realized we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively. Life is only a dream, and we're the imagination of ourselves. Here's Tom with the weather.

[Warren DeMontague]

36. Sigh.

He is missed.

[opiate69]

37. Absolutely.

[RiffRandell]

50. How did I not know about this guy?

I googled him and I was in my early twenties when he died. I'm really embarrassed, unless my brain is too fried or due to age can't remember him.

I just watched several of his stand-ups on youtube and couldn't stop laughing....my kind of comedian.

I'll have to ask my husband if he remembers him. We both watched Letterman (classy what Letterman did after his death) but I don't remember him. His Jesus joke that they made him censor was hilarious.

"The People Hating Party"

[Warren DeMontague]

51. I think I came across one of his acts on tv while he was still alive, maybe one time.

I was in some altered state of consciousness and I was never quite sure if it had been real or I had hallucinated it. I mean, someone actually SAYING that stuff? Out loud? On the television?

Couldn't be.

He was truly underground, at the time... for some obvious reasons. ...but the comedy world certainly took notice of him. He influenced a lot of people.

[RiffRandell]

52. So great!

I'm sending this video to several of my "good" friends.

We were in HS when the "this is your brain on drugs" commercial came out.

Did you ever see 2 people smoking pot get into a fight?

I still can't get over the fact that I never heard of him.

[opiate69]

53. like Warren, I *think* I saw him once back in the late 80s on tv...

But it wasn't until the mid 90s that I really discovered him.. Tool sampled a little of his stuff on their album AEnima, and also had a dedication to him. Their singer was an occasional stand up comic and had been friends with Hicks.
He's also the reason I want to punch Dennis Leary in the throat. Leary essentially ripped off Hicks' entire persona. So much so that, if I remember correctly, Leno once said the only reason Leary was a star was because there's no cure for cancer. (Referring, of course, to Hicks' death from pancreatic cancer)... in an astoundingly classless move, Leary then titled one of his HBO specials "No Cure for Cancer."

[RiffRandell]

54. I read that when I looked him up!

Really sad...I loved Leary and watched Rescue Me...so disappointed. I liked Tool and read about their relationship. This is what I read:

But in 1993 Hicks was angered by Leary's album No Cure for Cancer, which featured lines and subject matter similar to Hicks's routine.[23] According to American Scream: The Bill Hicks Story by Cynthia True, upon hearing the album "Bill was furious. All these years, aside from the occasional jibe, he had pretty much shrugged off Leary's lifting. Comedians borrowed, stole stuff, and even bought bits from one another. Milton Berle and Robin Williams were famous for it. This was different. Leary had practically taken line for line huge chunks of Bill's act and recorded it."[24]

The friendship ended abruptly as a result.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Hicks

Bill apparently hated Leno, which is an automatic like (in my book) to Hicks.

Thank you for enlightening me on a talented guy, as you gave the original quote.

[opiate69]

55. You're quite welcome! I love spreading the Hicks Gospel lol

And if you have Netflix streaming, I can't recommended "American: The Bill Hicks Story" enough! (Although Leno is in it a bit.. IIRC, Bill and him were actually friendly for a while, when Leno was kind of mentoring the Laugh Factory up and comers, but when he signed to replace Johnny Carson, Bill couldn't handle the sell-out.)

[Tuesday Afternoon]

42. I have not seen iverglas either ... are you saying that sargasso sea was iverglas?

also thanks for the tune below, one of my favorite albums.

[Warren DeMontague]

43. No.

There was a big brou-ha ha in meta over Sargasso Sea and some of her alternate identities, a while back. And she had a blog where she bragged about coming back to DU over and over.

Iverglas was covering for the identities and got involved in defending or reiterating the transphobic comments. IIRC, she also would do things like repost the contents of a post hidden for bigotry, in its entirety, so that the comments could be put up again.


And yeah, EGBDF is one of the best.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

44. yes, got it. I think you and I would recognize iverglas if we saw her. GC&RKBA lost a good one. She

honed our debating skills to a fine, sharp edge much to the dismay of those who have tried to fill her shoes.

I worried about her for a time because her posting style had changed so drastically and quickly.

[lumberjack_jeff]

19. A person isn't the sum total of their "spirit". They are the sum total of their positions.

She isn't worth admiration.

The irony is that her hatred of men was so deep-seated that she couldn't even make an exception for those who self-identified as women.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

22. evidently she was worth admiring to everyone when she was on the PC side of the gun argument.

[Warren DeMontague]

29. She was? That wasn't what I saw. What I saw was someone incapable of getting along

with even her erstwhile "allies".

Someone smart, but deeply toxic.

I had some exchanges with her that were pleasant or humorous, but she managed to alienate pretty much everyone she came into contact with, in one way or another.

We can go 'round and 'round with speculations about how people really feel, but the truth of the matter is, it's the words we actually write and post on the internet which are the true record of our character.

I think there are a lot of people who have said, in assorted places, some vile, nasty shit online. If one looks at the sum total of all the words they've put out there- they should ask themselves; is this something I can be proud of? Honestly?

Or not?

I'm not expressly proud of every single dumb joke I've ever made, for instance, but not once have I ever expressed hate for individuals, or groups of people. Not once have I advocated or even entertained the notion of violence. Not once have I done anything remotely like that. My greatest offense has been disagreeing with people who apparently brook no disagreement.

I think in the case of this blogger, and some others in question, the answer is obvious.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

38. over the years her posting style evolved and she did not transition well over to DU3 -

Last edited Mon Apr 29, 2013, 06:23 PM - Edit history (1)

and you must remember that I had no idea that she posted in these other groups.

I only ever saw her in GC&RKBA and this was mainly over at DU2.

I admit that I was aghast at things she had said but, honestly

I had taken hers and others abuse in GC&RKBA for so long that

I was somewhat immune to it all.

Remember when there was a time when it was stated in DU policies and procedures something along

the line of having thick skin ....

look, I am not defending her positions by any means.

How do I explain missing the eccentricity of reading her style and applauding her turn of phrase without ever agreeing with a single thing she said.

[Warren DeMontague]

39. Like I said, she was -and is, presumably- smart.

The thing that boggles my brain is being so obsessed with a website and the people who post on it; people whom, presumably, despite disagreement on points, are obstensibly on the same side of the political divide, even (although she's supposed to be in Canada, so relevance to US politics is limited) ... being so consumingly obsessed with it that you create mutliple identities, masks, disingenuously break the rules while simultaneously putting yourself in a self-appointed position of enforcing those rules on others...

Look, I just don't give that much of a shit. I like DU because it's a community of interesting people, I get a good handle on current events as they happen, etc. I hang out in The Mens Group because there are some good folks -of both genders- who post here, not because I'm some sooooper secret "MRA" (the continual denials just PROVE it MUAHAHAHAHHA)

I'm guilty of being good at spotting zombies and trolls. Yes, after having some of the sock games pointed out to me on DU2, I became aware, and I've got a good eye for posting patterns. Guilty as charged.

...But if I got banned tomorrow, I would go away. I sure as hell wouldn't act like Napoleon on Elba, plotting and scheming my return from some fortress of solitude. I mean, seriously. Someone like that should take up other hobbies, already- that's friendly advice.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

40. dude, I hear ya. we are in violent agreement. I am not explaining myself well. --

maybe to say ...

she was a character that I loved to hate.

and for a while she was a very worthy adversary in GC&RKBA and I think one can respect and admire

an opponent in that regard.

[Warren DeMontague]

41. And that is a worthy attitude to have about ALL our "opponents".

I mean it; I may disagree with people, but it takes a lot for me to "hate" them.

I hate people who hurt other people, deliberately. That's kind of my line. So when someone on the board tells me I "enjoy hurting people" because I post a picture of Sophia Loren in a bikini, on one hand I laugh, but OTOH I say ..."really? that's really how you see it?"

I've seen some nasty stuff said or implied about certain people around here, and really I think it's a profound shame. I think we all probably have more in common than we may know. And probably each of us has our own motivations which others can't see. I really do wish people could try to be more understanding of each other; I'm not immune to that- I can do better, I am capable of listening. But listening -and communication- is a two way street.

For instance, I know you and I both like at least one of the same bands.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

16. This blogger is mentally ill

They need serious help.

[ZombieHorde]

26. Unfortunately, every group has its bigots. nt

[Bonobo]

45. Yes, but it is clear that some right here on DU...

Get their very same talking points from this type of site. Sometimes the rhetoric is literally word for word.

Yes, after long years here on DU, they know how to walk the line. But the same hatred is evident.

[Warren DeMontague]

46. And, there is projection. For instance, it seems for some this group is irrevocably linked to

shit like the "mens rights subreddit".

Why? I don't know. This is the mens group, and the word "mens" is in the header of that other deal.

Never mind that I've never seen any evidence that anyone from here is posting over there, or vice-versa. Shit, me-- I can't even deal with reddit in general- the GUI gives me a headache. And yet, any mention of some idiotic drivel posted at the one place invariably invites dark musings about how "yaknow yaknow those people (wink wink) are also on DU"



Meanwhile, bloggers from a certain small blog circle have been REPEATEDLY busted trolling DU, along with having the material directly and indirectly referenced numerous times.

But PNATTMBTC!

[Bonobo]

47. I, for one, do NOT identify at all with "MRA groups".

Rather, I think that the posters in HOF that make that claim have found a useful way to silence any talk from men by throwing them into that category with little rationale for doing so.

It reminds me of people that claim that Obama is a fascist-communist.

[Warren DeMontague]

48. I'd never even heard of 'em until DU.

And the stuff they say is plainly idiotic.

[opiate69]

49. How about this for mind numbing stupidity...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb/soraya-chemaly/america-from-luscious-lol_b_3008557.html

book: The MILF Diet.

A MILF, in case you've missed it, is a Mother I'd Like To Fuck... not me personally, but millions of boys and young men who enthusiastically embrace, with the full support of parents, coaches, family, friends and media, birthright access to all women's bodies.

Hey, Soroya, you pig-ignorant, pseudo-intellectual imbecile.. Wanting to do something does not equate to feeling entitled to it. At least, not in the minds of the average, well adjusted, reasonable adult. I really, really would like to be a multi-million selling musician. Doesn't mean I think the music buying public owes it to me to run out and buy my music.
Fucking moron.

[Warren DeMontague]

56. Fascinating reading.

Really explains a lot.