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Welcome to Rick Perry's Texas (Original Post) ashling Apr 2013 OP
Yeah, that's bullshit. Buzz Clik Apr 2013 #1
It's not bullshit. Vinnie From Indy Apr 2013 #3
Gee, I guess that makes it alright -- everybody does it. Fantastic philosophy. Buzz Clik Apr 2013 #5
Your comment leads me to believe you're a "moderate" that believes in "streamlining" regulation Dragonfli Apr 2013 #4
That was a lot of verbiage, but still bullshit. Buzz Clik Apr 2013 #6
I could demonstrate it but I would require a large fertilizer plant Full of very explosive Dragonfli Apr 2013 #7
And where does streamlined or de-regulation fit into all this? Buzz Clik Apr 2013 #8
Texas openly brags about doing away with regulations and even ignoring federal ones Dragonfli Apr 2013 #12
Try to slow down and focus on the issue brought out by the opening post. Buzz Clik Apr 2013 #15
Its absolutely NOT bullshit! ashling Apr 2013 #9
It isn't a matter of tone, it's a matter of accuracy. Buzz Clik Apr 2013 #10
He just told you, your technique of pretending you can't see what people write is getting old. nt Dragonfli Apr 2013 #13
You answered for him/her? Please don't. You and I have one discussion going. Buzz Clik Apr 2013 #14
Hopefully, Texans will collectively wake-up and boot the DeRebulatingRepublicans OUT BlueCaliDem Apr 2013 #2
I'm not holding my breath LeftInTX Apr 2013 #11
Stranger things have happened. We've elected a Black man for president BlueCaliDem Apr 2013 #25
That's a great idea. Let's get down to brass tacks. Buzz Clik Apr 2013 #16
False dichotomy ashling Apr 2013 #17
This is post number 17, two of which are yours. Surely you can keep up! Buzz Clik Apr 2013 #19
Okay. Well, you don't wanna wake up. Got it! eom BlueCaliDem Apr 2013 #18
Whatever you do -- do NOT back up any of your claims. Ever. eom Buzz Clik Apr 2013 #20
Huh? I made no claims so what's there to "back up"? BlueCaliDem Apr 2013 #21
So you are saying that your post, in the context of the thread, was a non sequitur? Buzz Clik Apr 2013 #22
Actually, no. I'm saying YOURS is. BlueCaliDem Apr 2013 #23
I agree. Upon hearing the explanation of your post, my response to you was meaningless. Buzz Clik Apr 2013 #24
He defends deregulation. Will not see, Will not hear that deregulation even exists Dragonfli Apr 2013 #26
Deregulation, especially in plants like these, are a BAD thing. BlueCaliDem Apr 2013 #27

Vinnie From Indy

(10,820 posts)
3. It's not bullshit.
Mon Apr 22, 2013, 10:19 AM
Apr 2013

And, making politcal hay from death and destruction is an immutable law of nature.

Cheers!

 

Buzz Clik

(38,437 posts)
5. Gee, I guess that makes it alright -- everybody does it. Fantastic philosophy.
Mon Apr 22, 2013, 11:02 AM
Apr 2013

As for the bullshit part, there was no "de-regulation" involved, unless you're willing to demonstrate otherwise. And be very specific.

Dragonfli

(10,622 posts)
4. Your comment leads me to believe you're a "moderate" that believes in "streamlining" regulation
Mon Apr 22, 2013, 10:50 AM
Apr 2013

Like the way a "moderate" Clinton "streamlined" bank regulation by helping to rid us of "anti growth" restraints like the Glass–Steagall Act. That bit of work helped place "moderates" in the hall of fame of disastrous policies.

I am sorry "moderates" have to share the hall with Texas Republicans, but if it makes you feel any better this specific disaster is not as spectacularly destructive as the former I just mentioned. More Dramatic, with faster fiery deaths, but nothing like destroying a world economy (they don't really bother to keep a body count on deaths caused by poverty created by such economic destruction or his stats would look much better on his trading card).

Then again I may have misread your dismissal of the effects of a lack of regulation in Texas when you called it bullshit - you may have just had your fertilizers confused and thought the plant stored bovine fecal matter.

 

Buzz Clik

(38,437 posts)
6. That was a lot of verbiage, but still bullshit.
Mon Apr 22, 2013, 11:04 AM
Apr 2013

I challenge you to demonstrate how "streamlining" or de-regulation (as suggest by the bullshit in the OP) caused this disaster.

Dragonfli

(10,622 posts)
7. I could demonstrate it but I would require a large fertilizer plant Full of very explosive
Mon Apr 22, 2013, 11:31 AM
Apr 2013

ammonium nitrate (literally tons of it) then make sure the state has no regulations requiring such quantities be reported. Then I would make sure the facility had no fire suppression system in the area the explosives were stored and no regulatory plan put in place to correct such a dangerous practice. I would top it off by not inspecting it for a time period of about thirty years.

Come to think of it, it has already been demonstrated somewhere! Demonstrated by the tragedy referenced in the OP.

 

Buzz Clik

(38,437 posts)
8. And where does streamlined or de-regulation fit into all this?
Mon Apr 22, 2013, 12:20 PM
Apr 2013

Homeland Security covers the ammonium nitrate, and West Fertilizer Co has been claiming during their reporting that they don't deal ammonium nitrate. That's a de-regulation problem??

No. You're making all of this up.

Dragonfli

(10,622 posts)
12. Texas openly brags about doing away with regulations and even ignoring federal ones
Mon Apr 22, 2013, 05:52 PM
Apr 2013

They deregulated safety requirements to the point that the factory did not even have to follow basic safety protocols, did you not read that they did not require even fire suppression systems to be installed? Are you pretending that they left any enforced regulations or enforcement protocols requiring safety inspections or so much as the slightest of negative consequences if safety was ignored? Are you stupid or just as I originally thought, someone that agrees with the Texas Republican's theories on the deregulation of industry?

Please, stop pretending you don't know that "streamlining regulations" is a third way euphemism for deregulation under the banner of "moderate" or "centrist" right wingers like yourself working from within the Democratic party.

Pretending that deregulation of industry in Texas (both by legislation and deliberate non-enforcement) has nothing to do with accidents that occur because there are no regulations left requiring safety is an absurd argument that no one but deregulation fans believe. Even with them it is just a rationalization.

Texas has some very good Democrats that are not just moderate republicans registered as Democrats (AKA Third Way/DLC "centrists&quot . You should discuss reality with them, perhaps they can get through what is either your denial or outright belief in de-regulation. Maybe you can become a Democrat on this issue.

 

Buzz Clik

(38,437 posts)
15. Try to slow down and focus on the issue brought out by the opening post.
Mon Apr 22, 2013, 06:38 PM
Apr 2013

The OP claims and you concur that this is a Texas-specific problem. It is not.

Thus far, the only specific item you mentioned was the lack of sprinklers. And that's fine. We'll limit our discussion to only sprinklers. Did Texas specifically streamline regulations making sprinklers unnecessary in this facility or similar facilities? That's your charge. Back it with specifics. Cite the regulation that would normally require sprinklers in a small fertilizer distributor and cite specifically how Texas de-regulated or streamlined to make those sprinklers not necessary. That is precisely what you are claiming.

If you cannot back up those claims with absolute specificity, then both you and the OP are just blowing smoke.

ashling

(25,771 posts)
9. Its absolutely NOT bullshit!
Mon Apr 22, 2013, 03:44 PM
Apr 2013

Dramatic, yes ... bullshit NO.

It is what happens when Republicans like Perry whine all the goddamn time about safety and other regulations and how we should rely on "self reporting" of safety and other concerns. And they give a wink and a nod to those regulations that are in place.

The situation that led directly to the loss of life in West should have been averted.

You may not agree with the tone, but to vociferously holler bullshit is ... well, bullshit.

 

Buzz Clik

(38,437 posts)
10. It isn't a matter of tone, it's a matter of accuracy.
Mon Apr 22, 2013, 04:29 PM
Apr 2013

I cannot see how this could possibly due to problems specific to Texas.

Please tell us exactly what Perry or the state did to have made that horrific accident possible.

BlueCaliDem

(15,438 posts)
2. Hopefully, Texans will collectively wake-up and boot the DeRebulatingRepublicans OUT
Mon Apr 22, 2013, 10:18 AM
Apr 2013

of power.

Who in their right mind would fall for voting for the party that loathes government so much? Don't people know that if you don't like something you're bound to be BAD at it?? Sometimes I wonder where the heads are of some American people.

BlueCaliDem

(15,438 posts)
25. Stranger things have happened. We've elected a Black man for president
Mon Apr 22, 2013, 09:04 PM
Apr 2013

while I believed, deep down in my gut, that wouldn't happen in my lifetime.

 

Buzz Clik

(38,437 posts)
16. That's a great idea. Let's get down to brass tacks.
Mon Apr 22, 2013, 06:40 PM
Apr 2013

Why don't you provide a reference for us of regulations in other states that apply specifically to this situation that, if those regulations existed in Texas, would have circumvented the problem. That should be easy enough, right?

ashling

(25,771 posts)
17. False dichotomy
Mon Apr 22, 2013, 07:10 PM
Apr 2013

The problems with Rick Perry and other right wing ideologues circumventing are not affected by what happens in any other state.

But if you want to get down to brass tacks, as you say, perhaps you should explain what your particular problem is with my original post instead of flinging "bullshit" and irrelevant arguments.

 

Buzz Clik

(38,437 posts)
19. This is post number 17, two of which are yours. Surely you can keep up!
Mon Apr 22, 2013, 08:25 PM
Apr 2013

But, let's summarize my what my problem is with the OP:

there was no "de-regulation" involved, unless you're willing to demonstrate otherwise. And be very specific.


I challenge you to demonstrate how "streamlining" or de-regulation (as suggest by the bullshit in the OP) caused this disaster.


Homeland Security covers the ammonium nitrate, and West Fertilizer Co has been claiming during their reporting that they don't deal ammonium nitrate. That's a de-regulation problem??


Thus far, the only specific item you mentioned was the lack of sprinklers. And that's fine. We'll limit our discussion to only sprinklers. Did Texas specifically streamline regulations making sprinklers unnecessary in this facility or similar facilities? That's your charge. Back it with specifics. Cite the regulation that would normally require sprinklers in a small fertilizer distributor and cite specifically how Texas de-regulated or streamlined to make those sprinklers not necessary. That is precisely what you are claiming.



I cannot see how this could possibly due to problems specific to Texas.

Please tell us exactly what Perry or the state did to have made that horrific accident possible.


Why don't you provide a reference for us of regulations in other states that apply specifically to this situation that, if those regulations existed in Texas, would have circumvented the problem. That should be easy enough, right?


Choose just one. Just one. And respond.

BlueCaliDem

(15,438 posts)
21. Huh? I made no claims so what's there to "back up"?
Mon Apr 22, 2013, 08:38 PM
Apr 2013

I ASKED {rhetorically} why Texans don't wake up and boot the DeRegulatingRepublicans out of office.

I've STATED that Republicans aren't good at governing {which is a FACT}.

And you come out swinging with a bunch of - your favorite word around here - bullshit demanding I "back up my claims"?? Are you for real?

 

Buzz Clik

(38,437 posts)
22. So you are saying that your post, in the context of the thread, was a non sequitur?
Mon Apr 22, 2013, 08:44 PM
Apr 2013

You'd know.

Never mind.

BlueCaliDem

(15,438 posts)
23. Actually, no. I'm saying YOURS is.
Mon Apr 22, 2013, 08:51 PM
Apr 2013

My post was my opinion. Is posting one's opinion a non sequitur these days? Or the bee in your bonnet is the fact that you just don't like anybody criticizing Republicans on a DEMOCRATIC PARTY site?

 

Buzz Clik

(38,437 posts)
24. I agree. Upon hearing the explanation of your post, my response to you was meaningless.
Mon Apr 22, 2013, 08:57 PM
Apr 2013

We agree.

Dragonfli

(10,622 posts)
26. He defends deregulation. Will not see, Will not hear that deregulation even exists
Tue Apr 23, 2013, 09:12 AM
Apr 2013

I don't think it's republicans he loves, because he really hates it when I rub the third way patented euphemism for deregulation in his face, he really goes off when I do that.

There was no deregulation or lack of regulation enforcement in Texas in this plant, damn it and he's sticking to his story. He just loves deregulation and it hurts it's feelings when you even hint it causes bad things to happen, deregulation is too good of a policy to be insulted like that.

And don't even suggest deregulation is a Texas thing, he hates that too. His job depends on denying deregulation of safety ever caused safety problems and certainly not in this plant.

BlueCaliDem

(15,438 posts)
27. Deregulation, especially in plants like these, are a BAD thing.
Tue Apr 23, 2013, 10:46 AM
Apr 2013

But overall, deregulation is only good for corporations and Big Business - never for the consumer and never for the average wage-slave. Democrats are diametrically opposed to deregulation.

California deregulated their energy, and it immediately resulted in manipulated black-outs and energy price spikes that gouged this wealthy state of over $25 billion. In November 2000, then Gov. Gray Davis announced that California had a $8 billion dollar surplus and he was ready to give it back to the people - and then Kenny-boy's Enron, when he saw Bush would successfully steal the election, joined forces with Duke Energy and other energy conglomerates, and prevented that from happening by forcing the state to pay $3,900 and $1900 per megawatt where we used to pay $20 per megawatt.

http://www.californiaphoton.com/economy/history/EnergyCrisis.html

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