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romantico

(5,062 posts)
Tue Apr 30, 2013, 07:55 PM Apr 2013

Anyone Here Have Knee Problems? Need Some Advice

I'm looking for some advice. My 72 year old Mom has been having trouble for years with her knees. She is still working(part time) but her knees are getting worse. She is over weight plus has type 2 diabetes. She recently went to a specialist and he performed Euflexxa injections in her knee. She had three treatments. After the first injection she experienced a lot of pain. The Doctor said this was normal.She went in for a second injection a week later and the next day was in even worse shape.He had to prescribe some pain pills for her it was so bad. Against her wishes, he talked her into the third and final series of injections.This time around along with the pain pills,it was not so bad. Well, that was a month ago and she says the knees do not feel any better (and on some days they feel even worse)

Her Primary Doctor suggested knee replacement surgery.She is terrified of this. A) she would have to take a lot of time off work and second she worries about having surgery at her age (plus being diabetic)

I have suggested Acupuncture,even though I am sure insurance won't cover it I've offered to pay for a session just to see if it works.Another option I have heard of is Cortizone injections.

My question is, has anyone experienced a similar problem? If so, were the results successful? I really would like to see her get some relief. She has some stairs to climb and she describes the bones crunching(bone on bone) when she steps up or puts pressure on her knees.

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Anyone Here Have Knee Problems? Need Some Advice (Original Post) romantico Apr 2013 OP
I had my left knee replaced in January 2012. CaliforniaPeggy Apr 2013 #1
My mom has had all the injections. She is not diabetic. Loryn Apr 2013 #2
Thanks! romantico Apr 2013 #3
Recovery is variable. CaliforniaPeggy Apr 2013 #4
Another vote for knee replacement - I had both replaced last year csziggy Apr 2013 #7
I just thought of this. Loryn Apr 2013 #5
My 84 year old mother has knee problems. snacker Apr 2013 #6
Thanks romantico Apr 2013 #8
My hospital stay was 5 days post-op, or 6 total. CaliforniaPeggy Apr 2013 #14
this may be a dumb question eShirl Apr 2013 #9
I had acupuncture for a painful knee and it helped a lot LiberalEsto Apr 2013 #10
She is not going to want to hear this but, my first suggestion is that Tuesday Afternoon Apr 2013 #11
She romantico Apr 2013 #12
My grandmother was in the same place five years ago. politicat Apr 2013 #13
My romantico May 2013 #15
Look into Hyaluronic Acid supplements before getting surgery. Raffi Ella May 2013 #16
I went through this at age 33. Do NOT do the Cortizone injections! DFW May 2013 #17
Thanks! romantico May 2013 #18
I also had cortizone injections... madmom May 2013 #19
Response to Romantico: Good news for Knee arthritis, and bone ailments in general Cal33 May 2013 #20

CaliforniaPeggy

(149,583 posts)
1. I had my left knee replaced in January 2012.
Tue Apr 30, 2013, 08:04 PM
Apr 2013

It can be tough recovering from it, but it's doable. My 90 something year old Dad had his knee replaced recently too, and he's very happy.

The knee is a simple joint, just a hinge.

I would have her talk to an orthopedic doc to get her questions answered.

And I would definitely recommend that she get the knee done.

She is NOT too old.

On edit: I am very happy that I had the knee replaced. The bone on bone pain is GONE.

Loryn

(943 posts)
2. My mom has had all the injections. She is not diabetic.
Tue Apr 30, 2013, 08:06 PM
Apr 2013

Though she is overweight. She had the right knee replaced 2 years ago when she was 81. It very much improved her quality of life. Now she is having problems with her left knee.

My BIL also had injections in his knees, which helped for quite some time. He ended up having them both replaced too.

I think this is a long way of saying what you don't want to hear. Our joints wear out. There are some treatments that work for some people sometimes, but not for everyone all the time.

I wish your mother all the best.

romantico

(5,062 posts)
3. Thanks!
Tue Apr 30, 2013, 08:38 PM
Apr 2013

I can tell when the words 'Knee Replacement' even comes up she gets up tight.I can't blame her. Any kind of surgery is a nightmare for that person. At home she uses a walker and that seems to be a bug help.She is way to vain to use it out in public though.She uses a arthritis pain reliever and even though her Doctor knows she uses it he has said to her before, don't make those pain pills a regular part of your daily routine.I'd like to see her stop using them,even though she only takes 2 a day.

Maybe I should start trying to warm her up to the idea of Knee Replacement. Anyone know how long it takes to recover?

CaliforniaPeggy

(149,583 posts)
4. Recovery is variable.
Tue Apr 30, 2013, 08:42 PM
Apr 2013

I think it was 6 weeks before I was driving again.

But my walking improved overnight. The pain was gone and it felt great.

If possible, she should try to lose some weight; that will help the recovery. Legs are heavy at the best of times.

I don't regret having done it!

Good luck...

csziggy

(34,136 posts)
7. Another vote for knee replacement - I had both replaced last year
Tue Apr 30, 2013, 08:59 PM
Apr 2013

First one May 15, second July 25. Surgeon would not do both at once because of my weight. I hurt less the day after surgery than I did the day before, though it was a couple of weeks before I was walking well and six weeks before I was cleared to drive. By three weeks after the surgery I was not using a walker or a cane at all.

A big help in recovering faster was to go to a Medicare approved rehabilitation hospital for a while after getting out of the hospital. Medicare requires 3 hours a day of physical therapy - if she goes home, she might get three hours a week.

Before surgery I got better relief from taking Feldene (Piroxicam) than from the Vicodin my doctor prescribed for pain. Feldene is also prescription but it is straight anti-inflammatory, not a NSAID or narcotic. It also helped a lot in the first month after each surgery and let me get off the heavy duty pain killers faster. Tell her to ask her doctor about it to see if it is advisable for her.

My insurance company sent me a packet before my knee replacements that was a "decision maker" guide. Pretty much if she can live with the pain without too much medication and if she is not ready for knee replacement, it is not time. It's a very personal choice and it is major surgery. She might see if her insurance has a packet like that to help her decide. In addition, the hospital where I got my surgery had a great "class" for joint replacement candidates in which a nurse and a physical therapist went over the entire procedure and told us exactly what to expect before and after the surgery. It really helped me and my husband understand what to expect.

For me it was a no brainer. I'd been 10+ years bone on bone in one knee joint and could not longer stand long enough to get things done. I was down to a total of an hour a day on my feet - not an hour at a time, and hour added up throughout the day.

Good luck to your Mom. I understand how scary it is - but if pain is limiting her activities, she should consider new knees.

Loryn

(943 posts)
5. I just thought of this.
Tue Apr 30, 2013, 08:51 PM
Apr 2013

I've been wrapping my mom's knee in an Ace bandage for the past few days. (the kind that sticks to itself, much nicer than those old ones with the metal stays). Anyhoo, she does think that helps her. I also rub Icy Hot on it when she goes to bed. That is helping for now anyway.

snacker

(3,619 posts)
6. My 84 year old mother has knee problems.
Tue Apr 30, 2013, 08:54 PM
Apr 2013

She gets cortisone shots every six months which seem to give her some relief.

romantico

(5,062 posts)
8. Thanks
Tue Apr 30, 2013, 09:16 PM
Apr 2013

Thanks for the replies! I'm going to print this post and replies out tomorrow for her to read.Very helpful advice.

Can anyone tell me how long their hospital stay was? She thinks she may be able to work from home while recovering,but I am not sure that is a good idea. She will have to keep busy if she is confined to bed all day.

I told her she should look into cortizone injections. I think Medicare pays for it.

Thanks again to everyone for the very helpful replies!

CaliforniaPeggy

(149,583 posts)
14. My hospital stay was 5 days post-op, or 6 total.
Tue Apr 30, 2013, 10:58 PM
Apr 2013

Everybody's different. I think my dad went home 3 days after his surgery.

They do not want you to lie around either in the hospital or at home.

You are out of bed the day after surgery, and physical therapy is there to help.

Medicare will pay for at home PT as well. It was very helpful and I recovered pretty quickly.

eShirl

(18,490 posts)
9. this may be a dumb question
Tue Apr 30, 2013, 09:25 PM
Apr 2013

but has she tried a good name brand of glucosamine-chondroitin supplements?

one time I switched and bought a generic store brand when they had a 2-for-the-price-of-1 sale, and after a few weeks my knees started getting really sore. It got so that whenever I went out to do the usual errands, I had a great deal of pain. I ended up getting and using a cane anytime I had to leave the house.

after a few months my generic supplements were gone and I bought my regular "advanced triple strength" brand again. within two weeks I stopped using the cane and haven't used it since.

 

LiberalEsto

(22,845 posts)
10. I had acupuncture for a painful knee and it helped a lot
Tue Apr 30, 2013, 09:41 PM
Apr 2013

The orthopedic doctor said there was nothing more he could do for my osteoarthritis pain, since I can't take strong NSAID meds or Cymbalta. Physical therapy only made it worse.

I left his office and walked down the hall to the office of an acupuncturist I'd sene several years ago for back problems. She helped with the back too. I told her I could only afford a few sessions since my insurance wouldn't cover the acupuncture. We did three sessions, which were very helpful, but I still had pain and trouble walking.

She handed me a bottle of Chinese herbal medicine called Strong Stride pills - Jian Bu Pian -- and told me how to take them. I don't like taking things I know nothing about, so I did a search on the internet, and looked up every ingredient. A few were familiar - ginger root and tangerine peel. They all seemed innocuous, so I started taking them. My knee pain cleared up almost entirely by the time I finished the bottle. The acupuncturist didn't have any more, so I ordered another bottle online. After finishing these the knee pain was completely gone and has not returned in the past 6 months.

I can't advise anyone to do as I did, because my knee problems might not be the same as someone else's. But if traditional medicine fails to help, it's worth looking into alternative methods.

Tuesday Afternoon

(56,912 posts)
11. She is not going to want to hear this but, my first suggestion is that
Tue Apr 30, 2013, 09:48 PM
Apr 2013

she lose weight and go from there. the loss of weight may help her with her diabetes and will take some pressure off her knee.

I wrenched my knee snow skiing years ago and surgery was recommended at that time.

I have put it off for -years-

I started gaining weight and the pain in my knee got worse, a lot worse.

I have since lost most of the weight and my knee pain has lessened quite a bit.

You do not say she is obese but, over weight. Surgery is hard on overweight, diabetic elderly people.

Good luck to your mother. I wish her well and hope she finds the solution that best fits her needs.

romantico

(5,062 posts)
12. She
Tue Apr 30, 2013, 10:01 PM
Apr 2013

She has tried to lose weight with no success. WHen she goes to the Doctor and they weigh her she either loses 5 pounds or gains 3 pounds. Always something like that. I see what she eats and she eats better than I do. Lots of fruits and veggies, drinks a ton of water, and rarely eats any fatty or junk food. She really gets no exercise. I am hoping she can work from home and take her time recovering from this. She needs the paycheck and is willing to use a week or ten days of vacation time. If that sounds like enough time and then she can make calls and do things by computer until she gets back up and walking again, I think that would be great.

She will need both knees done but I doubt they would do both at the same time.

Thanks again for the replies and advice!

politicat

(9,808 posts)
13. My grandmother was in the same place five years ago.
Tue Apr 30, 2013, 10:47 PM
Apr 2013

Diabetic, heavy, bone on bone after 40+ years as a hairdresser, then a geriatrics nurse. She was 72 at the time, and her aunt (who is 4.5 years older) was in the same place (though Auntie's career was teaching, but still, 40+ years of standing.)

They were an almost perfect experiment and control. Both had one knee, then the other; both spent 3 weeks in a rehab hospital after each surgery. For my grandmother, the pain is less but her mobility is iffy now. Auntie (who is now 82) no longer drives (she has hand tremors) but she just finished her first 5K of the season. last year, she did 14 5K or 10K walks and placed 1-5 for her over 75 age category.

The difference is a single factor. Before surgery, Auntie bought a treadmill and a recumbent bicycle. She sold her sofa to make room for the two machines. She also moved her easy chair into a corner where she can't see her TV. In her living room, if one wants to watch TV, one must be on either the treadmill or the bike. After Auntie came home from rehab, she hired a personal trainer to come to her house once a week and call her twice every day -- once to remind her to hit the bike or mill, once to check that she had. The trainer worked with her physical therapist and orthopedic surgeon to keep her progressing. Six months after Auntie's second surgery, she walked her first competitive 5K. She credits her love of HGTV (and this woman REALLY loves her house flipping reality TV.)

My grandmother had good intentions for rehab -- instead of buying the machines, she intended to go to her town's senior center every day. This lasted about two weeks -- good intentions, but then there was a rainy day... And then another, and another. And then she got a cold, and then she had a hair appointment.... And she got out of the groove.

(The other big difference -- auntie has a teacher's pension with amazingly good health benefits on top of Medicare and her widow's SS benefits, including a 50% reimbursement for her trainer. Yay, unions! Gran's retirement income is all investment income, and her supplemental Medicare policy does not reimburse for her trainer.)

Rehab and maintenance are critical after surgery. It's hard to lose fat or rebuild muscle at 60+, so it takes a major commitment. It's incredibly hard to lose weight when exercise is excruciating, and soft tissue loss guarantees pain. Auntie's daily regimen isn't arduous -- she was only walking about 2 mph at first, and she still doesn't go much above 3.5 or 4 -- but it's all about endurance and keeping at it every day.

Both Auntie and Gran have significantly less pain than they did before and that alone is great for their health. Less pain means less inflammation and less stress on their adrenal systems, which means they both sleep better and their sugar and blood pressure is much more stable. Gran's problem now is muscle loss -- she never fully regained what surgery damaged, and she's been losing ground.

If your mom was mine, I'd see if she could maintain 3 months of chair-based (sit & be fit type) exercise with daily reminders.

romantico

(5,062 posts)
15. My
Wed May 1, 2013, 10:45 AM
May 2013

My Mom read the posts here this morning and thanks everyone for their advice. She feels a little better about the knee replacement surgery. Not sure if she wants to take time off work or wait until she retires.(she is planning on retiring within the next year) A lot to think about and consider and for that, I thank the posters here who answered some questions regarding the procedure. She goes to see her Doctor next week and is going to ask if she can look into acupuncture and or cortizone until she has the surgery.

Again, thanks to everyone. We both appreciate it!

Raffi Ella

(4,465 posts)
16. Look into Hyaluronic Acid supplements before getting surgery.
Wed May 1, 2013, 11:16 AM
May 2013

My Mom just started taking it a couple of weeks ago, her knees were pretty bad. She could walk up stairs and get up and down on a ladder slowly and with great care but then would be in pain for the next 3 or 4 days. She could not get up off the floor unless holding onto something for support.

After a week of taking Hyaluronic Acid everyday she has absolutely no knee pain. She said it's like night and day. There is a lot of information about it out there and a lot of reviews that say they didn't need surgery after taking hyaluronic acid.

DFW

(54,341 posts)
17. I went through this at age 33. Do NOT do the Cortizone injections!
Wed May 1, 2013, 12:01 PM
May 2013

I was neither overweight nor diabetic, but one of my knees started swelling up and got painful to move.

I went to an orthopedic hospital here in Germany. The "specialist" told me I'd nee a series of cortizone injections. They were painful and did absolutely NOTHING.

I then went home and saw a Dallas specialist who was the consulting knee physician for the Dallas Cowboys and a pioneer of a procedure called arthroscopy. It's now pretty much standard, but was then considered exotic. When I first saw him, his first question was if I had already seen someone about my condition. I said, yes, in Germany. He said, "Germany? Oh, no! Let me guess, they gave a series of totally useless cortizone injections, right?" Apparently this is what knee "specialists" recommend when they have no idea how to treat someone. Don't let yourself get talked into that. I had arthropscopy on both knees, one in 1985, one in 1999. Completely mobile since then.

There is no alternative to her losing weight. This will HAVE to happen. At her age, I think knee replacement is the best option. Arthroscopy is usually a temporary treatment of a degenerative knee cartilage condition, and often (though not always) has to be repeated after a while. Knee replacement, too, but usually after decades, and your mom probably won't have to worry about that.

romantico

(5,062 posts)
18. Thanks!
Wed May 1, 2013, 12:33 PM
May 2013

Sounds like the cortizone injections for you were like the injections she had last month. Painful and did absolutely NOTHING for her knees. Her knees are pretty swollen and as a result to the injections she had she got Baker's cists on both knees. They said if the pain did not go away they would have to be drained but the swelling behind the knees seem to be getting smaller and less painful.I'll definitely pass on your problems with cortizone injections.Thanks!

madmom

(9,681 posts)
19. I also had cortizone injections...
Wed May 1, 2013, 02:35 PM
May 2013

but for a different problem, not knees. They too, were very painful and didn't help a bit!

 

Cal33

(7,018 posts)
20. Response to Romantico: Good news for Knee arthritis, and bone ailments in general
Tue May 14, 2013, 12:55 PM
May 2013

Sorry that I came across your post of April 30, 07:55 PM only now.
I have osteoporosis, arthritis in my right hip-joint and lower spine,
as well as a slight sliding forward of vertebra Lumbar 3 over Lumbar 4
("spondylolisthesis&quot , and several other symptoms of the lower-spine
nerve roots being compressed because of loss of cartilage between
the vertebral joints - including sciatica in the right side.

I had also received cortisone shots which relieved pain for about
24 hours only. Cortisone has a lot of side-effects, so I stopped
after 5 shots (one every 2 weeks). I had also gone through taking
pain medications, etc...

Then I came across "EZorb" while surfing on the Internet. It's
made by the Elixir Industry, and sold by them alone. One can
get it only by writing or phoning this company directly. I tried it,
and within 3 weeks the pain in my hip and lower-back decreased
noticeably. Within 3 months I had no longer any pain at all when
I was sitting in a comfortable arm-chair or lying down in bed.
I began moving carefully and walking with the help of canes.
I found that walking with a walker was the best. With a
walker or leaning on a cart when shopping in a super-market,
I could walk with no pain at all.

I realized I needed exercise badly to keep healthy, and I was
too eager. I started at 200 yards a day. Within a month I
was doing 1-1/4 miles. (I had been walking 2 miles every day
for years before I got this bone ailment). Then I had a
relapse. Well, I learned my lesson. After two months I
started walking again, but this time I increased the distance
by 200 yards once a month only.

When I reached a mile, one day I had a fall -- right on my
lower back. So after another month, I had to start from
the beginning again. But the fall hurt my lower-back only.
My right-hip was (and still is) free from pain. The sciatica
is gone. My spondylolisthesis, however, will take years.
The reason is that so much intra-articular cartilage has
to be built back. This will take a long time. I am so glad
that my hip arthritis hasn't come back in 1-1/2 years. I
consider it as at least half-way cured. The hip-joint pain was
much stronger than the lower-back pain. I can now walk
for maybe 50 yards without any support (not even a cane)
before the pain in my lower-back starts. So, there is
improvement even there.

EZorb not only builds calcium into bones, it also stimulate
the formation of cartilage. I also take Glucoseamine to
increase the formation of cartilage.

It's great not to be in pain all the time.

"EZorb" is the brand name of a calcium compound "anhydrous
calcium aspartate" discovered by Elixir Industry. When people
get old, the usual calcium compounds are no longer absorbed
and built into the skeletal system, even when they take large
amounts of Vit. D3, magnesium...etc... as I had been doing
for years before my problems began. For some it starts sooner,
for others later. But it is inevitable if one lives long enough.
But EZorb is absorbed and built into the bones at any age.
Elixir INdustry claims that 92% of it is absorbed -- regardless
of one's age. And it has no side-effects that many of the
other calcium compounds do.

Just google "EZorb." The very first article from Elixir Industry
gives you all the necessary information. They even have a
special department that will answer all questions, including
medical and technical ones, by phone, email, or regular mail.

EZorb is alternative medicine. No Standard medicine M.D.
will recommend it. In fact, most of them know nothing
about it. No prescription is needed. I believe that
if, say, Standard Medicine can successfully treat 70% of all
known ilnesses, and Alternative Medicine can add 10% more
-- Why not? 80% is better than 70%, isn't it?

EZorb is working for me. I hope it will work for your mother, too.

I wish her all the best.

P.S. I would suggest to everyone in his/her 60s and older to
have a bone-density x-ray done, just to check if osteopenia
or osteoporosis is already there. In my opinion, so many of
the bone ailments of old-age can be prevented by simply taking
EZorb. I find the old adage "An ounce of prevention is better
than a pound of cure" to be very true.

There is another effective calcium compound called "Bone-Up"
that's available over the counter in any "Vitamin Shoppe" or
other drug stores. It's made in Australia. A friend of mine
uses it, and finds it successful. She had gone to a
regular bone specialist for over a year for a hairline fracture in
a vertebra, with no improvement. A friend told her about
Bone-Up. She tried it, and it worked. She had no more pain
within 2 months. And x-rays showed that the fracture had
healed. I have no personal experience with it. I am satisfied
with EZorb. "Bone-Up" does not also stimulate the growth of
cartilage.

I think Standard Medicine and Alternative Medicine should begin
to join hands, instead of ignoring one another.

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