Someone here told me that the word "master" is a racially charged word.

[AmyStrange]

-

I can see their point, but what do you guys think?


==========

[mr_lebowski]

1. I think it's all in how it's being used ... the vast majority of the time, it most definitely is NOT

Master Key. Master Copy. The process of 'mastering' in a movie or audio studio ... I'm sure I could come up with 5 other cases if I cared to take the time.

Oh, and master bedroom, a term which has absolutely no 'racial' history.

The whole discussion is just more OTT and ridiculous hand-wringing if you ask me.

[customerserviceguy]

2. Don't forget

Master's degree. I suppose anybody offended by that would consider "bachelor's degree" to be sexist.

[AmyStrange]

21. Or "the Masters"...

-

I wonder what Tiger Woods thinks about that?

This could get crazy, but thank you.
==========

[AmyStrange]

5. Thank you and...

-

have you seen this?

"Realtor groups drop 'master' bedroom, bathroom terms from listings"

https://www.goodmorningamerica.com/living/story/realtor-groups-drop-master-bedroom-bathroom-terms-listings-71552673

Sometimes, I think you're right about the PC police, but I'll hold judgement until I get more opinions about this.
=========

[mr_lebowski]

11. Yes, and that's why I brought it up ... I think it's silly (nt)

[kimbutgar]

3. A real estate friend told me they no longer use the word master bedroom anymore

I told her that was crazy.

[spooky3]

6. I think they say "owners' bedroom" now. I don't think it's

hard to make that switch.

On edit: I see that the linked article above discusses “primary bedroom.” I don’t see why they couldn’t also use “Bedroom 1” and just renumber the others accordingly.

[AmyStrange]

10. Do you think it'll get wide usage?

-

Maybe publicly, but in someone's own home?

Thank you for adding your perspective.
========

[spooky3]

16. I think it's like a lot of other language changes. At first

it may seem silly or needless to some people, but over time, everyone adapts.

For example, remember when people thought words like “policeman” included women too, and some disliked having to switch to “police officer”?

[AmyStrange]

34. I wonder what they're going to change the word masturbate to?

-

It doesn't look the same, but it sure sounds the same.

I never like the word policeman anyway or any of those words like it, and thank you.
==========

[Kali]

41. I would think OWNER

might have the same problem as MASTER

[customerserviceguy]

23. Realtors are very fond of euphemisms

A tiny kitchen is described as a "step-saver kitchen". "Secluded" means five miles from a paved road. I could go on and on.

[AmyStrange]

45. They often misuse the term greenbelt also, and...

-

thank you.
==========

[Midnight Writer]

49. I've noticed that the Family Room is now the Second Living Room, for some reason.

Had a realtor very solemnly correct me during a showing a while back when I remarked about the Family Room.

"Oh no, it's not a Family Room. It's a Second Living Room."

I asked a realtor I know socially who told me that is what they are calling it now.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

53. Whatever happened to "parlor"?

[haele]

70. I always thought Master's Bedroom had more gender overtones.

If it's racially charged, I don't think "owner's bedroom" is much better.
Of course, historically, the term Master (or Mistress) has more typically been used to indicate excellence and learning in an Art or Craft, ownership of a business, or a teacher or other professional. There have been more Masters and Mistresses by profession than by ownership of other human beings.

Haele

[bluedye33139]

4. People in tech are dealing with master/slave

It's terminology that dealt with how devices communicate, which one controls which, etc.

Not surprisingly, the astonishing emotional overtones of the language have become a focus of discussion now that IT is a little bit more diverse of a field. Apparently, no one working in IT noticed that the language was a little problematic.

[AmyStrange]

7. I can understand their arguement...

-

better than the one for "Master Bedroom".

Thank you for sharing.
==========

[Turbineguy]

8. I have that a lot

"Master" may not be racist, but "slave" is.

[AmyStrange]

15. Slave is definitely racist, but...

-

what about the phrase, "slave wages"?

Is that racist too?

Anyway, thank you for your input.
===========

[mr_lebowski]

19. In the United States, yes ...

Worldwide, throughout history?

Slaves usually were just whatever peoples lived in the land you just conquered ... probably most typically the unskilled/poor among them.

[Turbineguy]

35. Yeah I was also

thinking about galley slaves in the Spanish Armada. Lots of Europeans there.

In mechanical or hydraulic systems I suppose you could use "lead' and "follower" or "auxiliary"

[DBoon]

29. tech is a language of precision, not poetic expression

You can replace master/slave without hurting anything

[bluedye33139]

47. My sense is the people aren't married to the terminology

I totally think it can be changed

[whistler162]

56. putin/trump would work!

[42bambi]

9. One of my best friends last name is Bates. What do think he likes to be called ... Giggle.

[PoliticAverse]

12. Norman? n/t

[customerserviceguy]

26. Good one! n/t

[kimbutgar]

13. +1

[AmyStrange]

18. What movie was that from?

-

I'm thinking animal house, but I'm probably wrong.

Thank you for the giggle.
=======

[mr_lebowski]

20. Norman Bates is the main character in Psycho ...

Not sure what movie 'Master Bates' is from, probably a number of comedies at this point.

[AmyStrange]

24. I know that. I'm talking about the movie where a character...

-

is actually named Master Bates.

Wow! There actually is an actor named Master Bates:

https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0060983/
=======

[AmyStrange]

28. I found it. The Toy with Richard Pryor...

-

==========

[DBoon]

31. Wasn't there an Oscar Wilde play with that in it?

[AmyStrange]

36. Oliver Twist

-

https://www.sparknotes.com/lit/oliver/full-text/chapter-18/
==========

[Clash City Rocker]

39. You might be thinking of a Richard Pryor movie called "The Toy"

One of the main characters is a wealthy boy who is referred to as “Master Bates.”

[AmyStrange]

43. I found it, and thank you.

-

========

[haele]

72. On my ship, we had a Master Chief with the last name of Bates.

It's somewhat common in Maritime services to shorten the term Master Chief or Senior Chief to Master or Senior when referring to the person of that rank...
He had no problems dealing with the sniggers when he considered the hard work and rewards to get to the rank.

Haele

[mr_lebowski]

14. We're going to have to change the terminology for hydraulic brake and clutch systems, too ...

Good luck with getting mechanics to stop using terms they've used their entire careers.

[AmyStrange]

37. Probably won't happen in my lifetime, but...

-

you never know, and thank you.
==========

[jmowreader]

76. That's happened, in part

The cylinder attached to the pedal is still the "master cylinder," but the one at the other end of the line is now either a "brake cylinder" or a "clutch cylinder" depending on which thing you are pushing with it.

[RockRaven]

17. IMO it is very context dependent

Often yes, but not universally so by any means. Especially when dealing with non-American English.

For instance in Pride and Prejudice Mrs Reynolds refers to Mr Darcy as "the best master" in reference to him owning the estate of Pemberley. She certainly was using the term outside the context of race-based chattel slavery -- there isn't a non-white, or even non-English, person in the entire novel -- and I don't see how her usage could be tinged by it. Class issues are another matter...

[AmyStrange]

44. Good point, and...

-

thank you.
==========

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

22. I've participated both here and on FB in discussions

about how "master bedroom" is supposed to be totally a reference to slave-holding plantations. Which is simply not true.

Too many people have exceptionally poor vocabularies, and rather like the totalitarian government in the book 1984, want to reduce everyone's vocabularies to a bare minimum.

[AmyStrange]

46. In other words...

-

PC gone crazy.

Thank you.
======

[John Drake]

25. Why do we park on a driveway

And drive on a parkway?

[AmyStrange]

42. You stole that from some comedian, didn't you?

-

It's still funny, and thank you for that comic relief.
=========

[John Drake]

61. Absolutely

Not just some comedian but George Carlin who did an entire routine on the contradictions in the English language.

[AmyStrange]

62. One of my favorites.

-

I thought that sounded familiar.

I posted a video of him doing the "7 words you can't say on television" in Video & multimedia.

Don't go into the other one that I posted, there's a riot going on.

I helped fan the flames, and I'm sure George would've been proud.

RIP GC. You were one of the best, if not THE best.

Thank you to George and also to you for posting!
==========

[DBoon]

27. Does anyone remember the Master Cylinder?

[AmyStrange]

30. What happened to them?

-

Do you have one? Does anyone here have one?

By the way, thank you.
=========

[DBoon]

32. I'm sure old Felix the Cat cartoons are carried on some channel somewhere

[AmyStrange]

40. I wish...

-

I love that cartoon.
===========

[fierywoman]

33. Young men are properly (formally) addressed as "Master" instead of "Mr." So if I address

my 8-year-old AA student as "Master ---", would I be giving an FU to racism?

[AmyStrange]

38. I forgot about that one, and...

-

thank you.

You won't get an FU from me, but what does your son think about it?
=========

[fierywoman]

48. He's not my son. He's my student. (And I'm not AA.)

[AmyStrange]

55. Ok, Sorry, but what does he think about it anyway?

[fierywoman]

65. I haven't tried yet. He's always worried about "mastering" what I am teaching him and I thought

if I addressed him as Master --- it might make him more confident ... but I don't want to be tone deaf and insensitive if it's now an issue.

[Generic Brad]

50. That means I can no longer be the master of my domain

I'm out.

[AmyStrange]

57. Or use the word masturbate either

-

That would be PC gone crazy for sure.


=======

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

51. That debate has come up even among the Master Gardeners organization,

of which I am a member. Master Gardeners are volunteers who associate with their state university's extension division to provide gardening and horticulture education and assistance to the public. It's been around for years. Some people think the use of the word "master" is off-putting for PoC who might otherwise be interested in the program; others point out that "master" in the context of the program simply connotes some level of expertise (e.g., Masters Degree), not that anybody is the "master" over anybody else wrt gardening. I have stayed out of the discussion, but there is definitely a movement to rename the organization (which I suppose would have to be approved by the various universities that administer the program). Associating the notion of expertise in a subject matter with the domination of other people seems a bit attenuated to me, but others obviously see it differently.

[AmyStrange]

58. Wow! That's a new one on me

-

Jeez, I've never heard about any of this.

What other English words are they talking about?
===========

[Collimator]

67. Read something years ago

in Readers' Digest. (Which is a pretty conservative publication.) It was one of those clever little anecdotes. Someone was describing a family member whose great-grandparents worked in the cotton fields for slave masters. The family member so described was doing farm labor to pay college tuition for their graduate degree.

The joke being made was that the young man was now working in the fields for his masters.

The people who shared in that joke did not give a damn about the specific use of the word, "master" in the ugly historical context of slavery. They were aware of the past and excited for the young man's future. His accomplishment in earning an advanced degree was, frankly, all they were thinking about.

I understand and accept the complex connection between language and culture. I understand that words have power. That being said, the energy and focus towards an equal, just society needs to be directed towards changing lives in substantive ways.

I'm suddenly reminded of a saying, "What's that got to do with the price of eggs?" Right now, we are in a changing world where people are worried about their safety when going about their ordinary days in public spaces. (I am actually talking about the reality that black people face in this country and not the virus.) Eliminating the word, "master" from innocuous contexts isn't going to make life easier for black people in this country.

Teaching history, facing up to the past and seeing the clear connection between slavery and the conditions faced by millions of modern day people is what we need to do. A few thousand bright, motivated people with masters degrees in relevant subjects being placed in positions of policy-making will do more for mitigating the problems of race in this country than renaming bedroom suites.

Who cares what a particular bedroom in a house is called if no one can afford a decent home in a safe neighborhood? Who cares if a graduate degree is called a masters degree if no one can afford to go to college? And who cares if we eliminate the word "master" in all sorts of usages if we lose hope of ever being the master of our own fates?

[RobinA]

77. Well, The Whole

"notion of expertise" is rather attenuated nowadays. Becoming a Master Gardener is one of my retirement To-Dos.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

78. I recommend it, no matter what they decide to call it.

I don't consider myself an expert even after nine years and right now my own garden looks like crap, but it's fun and I've learned a lot.

[LanternWaste]

52. I think language undergoes a myriad of evolutions.

if it didn't, my reply title would have read "I think language undergoes 10,000 evolutions." But myriad evolved from a specific to a general.

Assigning an absolute to language is tilting at windmills.

Good luck!

[AmyStrange]

59. It does, and...

-

I like your reason for using myriad.

To me it sounds more enchanting, and thank you.
===========

[keithbvadu2]

54. Jesus was called Master.

Jesus was called Master.

[AmyStrange]

60. That's true, and...

-

someone's gonna have start printing up an all new version of the Bible if this goes too PC crazy.
===========

[keithbvadu2]

63. It can get complcated, eh?

[AmyStrange]

64. Too complicated if you ask me.

-

When will it stop, and thank you for sharing.
========

[orleans]

66. so here's my opinion (for what it's worth)

generally speaking i've never liked the word master

master bedroom. (not a fan)
main bedroom gets the meaning across just as easily

a dog and master
(not a fan)

i've had dogs since i was fifteen and have never considered myself (or, back in the day, my parents) to be the master of our dogs.

some terms using that word bother me more than others i guess.

AND as a pronoun it is masculine (not a fan)
also not a fan of the feminine variation: mistress (which has a whole other connotation)

[Wounded Bear]

68. I'd call it a stretch, though it could be racist in certain usages...

[AmyStrange]

69. I'm beginning to come to that conclusion also, and...

-

thank you for your reply.
=======

[ehrnst]

73. Seems somebody has a crush on somebody...

[Glorfindel]

74. There are certain subcultures that will never give up the use of

the word "master." Not my cup of tea at all, but to each his or her own.

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/thefeed/story/masters-girl-what-its-inside-master-and-slave-relationship

[whistler162]

75. PBS's Really Really Good Theater present

Endeavor

[llashram]

79. In the historical context

as in American Slavery Era, yes it is offensive because of the demand by one race to a subjected race and insinuation that the so-called superior race(male) be called master. The KKK and white supremacists call themselves the 'master race'. So used in the context of one race or another, it can be extremely offensive. And given the racist sitting in the Oval Office it today can bring up very disturbing visions of supposed white race supremacy as witnessed by the murders of Breonna Taylor and George Floyd et al.

Just a personal opinion based on the racism embedded in American culture.

[Kaleva]

80. Trout Unlimitied has announced they are changing the name of their Master Baiter Award