Lawrence O’Donnell: NRA Hindering Boston Bombing Investigation

[MinM]

MSNBC: NRA 'in the Business of Helping Bombers Get Away With Their Crimes'

10:24 PM, Apr 17, 2013 • By DANIEL HALPER

...

"There are new developments tonight in the bombing investigation here in Boston," said O'Donnell. "But that investigation could be moving faster were it not for the successful lobbying efforts of the National Rifle Association.

The NRA's efforts to guarantee that American mass murderers are the best-equipped mass murders in the world is not limited to murderers who use assault weapons and high-capacity magazines.

The NRA is also in the business of helping bombers get away with their crimes. Gunpowder could be traced by investigators to a buyer at the point of sale if gunpowder contained a taggant, an element that would enable tracing of the purchase of gunpowder. But thanks to the National Rifle Association, identification taggants are required by law only in plastic explosives.

The NRA has successfully blocked any requirements for such taggants in gunpowder. So such supremely helpful evidence as taggants are not available to the FBI in this investigation."

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/msnbc-nra-business-helping-bombers-get-away-their-crimes_718001.html

[Johonny]

1. this is true

I've seen the technology in action. We could do this. It is proven science.

[AtheistCrusader]

6. In action on black powder or smokeless powder?

Or something else, like plastic explosives?

[SunSeeker]

2. K&R

[efhmc]

3. Why?

[AtheistCrusader]

4. National Academy of Sciences recommended against this.

http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=6289

(Page 8, Executive Summary)

Finding: No current marking system has been demonstrated to be technically feasible for use in black and smokeless powders. While vapor markers have been successfully introduced into plastic and sheet explosives, there has not been a definitive study of how such markers might work in black and smokeless powders. Some issues of concern include the high volatility and the toxicity of vapor markers such as DMNB.

RECOMMENDATION: Detection markers in black and smokeless powders should not be implemented at the present time.

[defacto7]

7. That study is from 1998

15 years is a long time to rely on a scientific study.

I don't think "at the present time" applies to now.

[AtheistCrusader]

8. That's when it was allegedly 'blocked'.

[defacto7]

9. Don't worry...

I'm just 1 step behind.

[AtheistCrusader]

10. I'm sure the issue will be raised in legislation again soon.

Hopefully the technology is up to the task.

One problem is the corrosiveness of the primer and powders. Also the extremely long potential shelf life of these rounds. People are still digging up cases of ammo for Mosin-Nagants from WWII from under the foundations of apartment buildings in the Ukraine, and using it.

Plastic explosives aren't widely used or stored/stockpiled by joe home user in this manner.

[mountain grammy]

11. Exactly, thank you! Had this been studied, it probably would have been working well by now

it already did solve one bombing.

[AtheistCrusader]

17. The NRA's only action in this case was to make sure it WAS studied by an independent source.

Technically, the National Academy of Sciences isn't entirely independent. Being established by an act of Congress, one could potentially assume it would be on board with a 'big government conspiracy to ban guns' or some such crazy shit. It's certainly not a wing, pet, or otherwise enthralled to the NRA.

It HAS been studied. Studies are ongoing. Tagging this powder safely, and effectively, is not so simple as something stable and boutique like a plastic explosive.

Plenty of reasons to shit on the NRA these days. This issue isn't one. Not as framed by this news piece anyway.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

18. The proposed taggants have not changed, the safety issue remains

Government sponsored research in the 1970s and early 1980s found plastic layerd taggants to be potentially very dangerous, as they were found to increase chemical activity and prompt spontaneous combustion when mixed with some propellants. Nothing has been done to develop different taggants that do not have those problems.

The law enforcement benefits of tagging black and smokeless powders are also questionable. Consider that a single batch of gunpowder is normally distributed in half-pound or one-pound cans which can end up all over the country in the hands of 25,000 or more users. Also such small amounts are not tracked. If there is a person of interest, any gunpowder in their possession can be chemically matched to what was used, providing the same information as taggants.

I don't have a problem with taggants provided they are truly inert and safe. However, we need to have realistic expectations for them. They are not a magic bullet and will have a limited useful life.

[Johonny]

19. nope

they have the technology to do this. I've seen it done. The only danger is you can track the explosive. The technology to do this is not the way you write here. Technology has changed big since 1980s.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

20. For C-4 it certainly is. However for low grade commercial grade and gun powders, the problems

remain and a safe solution has not been demonstrably addressed. What has changed since then that makes you claim otherwise?

As I said, I have no problem with it once it is shown to be safe.

[Johonny]

21. Sometimes you can't say everything you want

on every issue. Although I think there's a lot of open source stuff out there if you are interested. Sorry I can't be 100% helpful but you seem like the kind of person that can find it.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

22. The National Academy of Sciences report on the matter dated 1998 reccomends not doing it

and the tech has not changed since them. Another post on the matter is here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101661115#post4 and it cites a National Academy of Sciences report that supports not doing it.

Right now there is no off the shelf solution readily available for gun powder and black powder and there are serious concerns about the 3M style taggants. The examples cited are for explosives, not propellants and differences there are critical.

Should a safe one become available I would not oppose them should there be a reasonable demonstrated need.

[bobclark86]

5. And that damn...

National Academy of Sciences... those evil child-killing hard-right Teabaggers...

[libodem]

12. The prime directive of the personhood of a corportion

Is profit, not morality. Corporations have all the rights and privledges of an individual with none of the expectations not to behave like a psychopathic murderer and certainly no laws or consequences for immoral behavior. That shit is for pot smokers and highschool students late for class.

[SomeGuyInEagan]

14. "It is the international system of currency which determines the totality of life on this planet."

The Arthur Jensen speech from Network:

[libodem]

15. Money is God

Greed is worship. Corruption a sacrement. Sick.

[nolabear]

13. I'm going to send this to my RW relatives who are also in law enforcement.

And I'm going to ask them to explain to me how they could possibly think the NRA is on their side.

[AtheistCrusader]

16. Definitely don't read the rest of the thread first.

Certainly not any independent studies. That wouldn't fit the narrative.

If you want to light the NRA on fire for something, light them on fire for opposing Universal Background Checks. There's literally no defense for that stance. This issue? More complex than first blush.

[MinM]

23. BTW Lawrence O’Donnell needs to keep the pressure on Tom Selleck...

A few high level defections from the NRA may finally lead to some common sense reform there.

Wow!! Lawrence O'Donnell just called out Tom Selleck and called him a coward.