Ron Paul slams Boston 'occupation'

[geek tragedy]

Source: Politico

“The Boston bombing provided the opportunity for the government to turn what should have been a police investigation into a military-style occupation of an American city,” Paul, a Texas Republican, wrote today on the website of the libertarian writer Lew Rockwell. “This unprecedented move should frighten us as much or more than the attack itself.”

Paul said the scenes of the house-to-house search for the younger bombing suspect in suburban Watertown, Mass., were reminiscent of a “military coup in a far off banana republic


...

“The suspect was not discovered by the paramilitary troops terrorizing the public,” Paul wrote. “He was discovered by a private citizen, who then placed a call to the police. And he was identified not by government surveillance cameras, but by private citizens who willingly shared their photographs with the police.”

Paul’s work with Rockwell, who was his congressional chief of staff from 1978 to 1982, has caused problems for the former representative in the past. Rockwell reportedly oversaw “The Ron Paul Political Report,” a 1980s and ’90s-era newsletter whose controversial assertions about race, homosexuality and other topics were used against Paul in both of his presidential runs.




Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/04/ron-paul-boston-comments-90737.html

---

On a related note, fuck Ron Paul.

[Crowman1979]

1. Oh I suppose letting the suspect run loose would be a better option.

That way, we won't infringe on his right to bear arms.

[treestar]

45. +1

And we don't know that the suspect might not have been aware of the lock down. The fact the ordinary citizen found him hiding could relate to that. With everyone out on the streets, the suspect could have been far more brazen and killed more people.

[politicaljunkie41910]

70. Or finding out later that he was holding some family hostage in their home up the street

a week later. Ron Paul go away and take Rand with you.

[msongs]

2. most of killers get caught without needlessly shutting down an entire city nt

[geek tragedy]

3. Most killers aren't tossing homemade fragmentation grenades around on the streets. nt

[cheapdate]

18. ...at crowded public gatherings.

[geek tragedy]

19. or when police attempt to arrest them. nt

[treestar]

47. having already been in or near one shoot out with police in the recent past

and then running over his brother to get away.

[billh58]

10. Most run-of-the-mill

"killers" get caught the old-fashioned way, but terrorists who have already demonstrated the capability for mass murder do not.

There was no "needless" shutdown of the entire city because all of the warnings to stay indoors were strictly voluntary. Many people carelessly went about their business, and left their homes, making it just a little more difficult for the authorities to attempt to contain the potential terrorist threat.

So, please go ahead and defend Ron Fucking Paul, but don't try to twist the facts as he has done.

[Bragi]

24. Agreed

[LanternWaste]

54. Most DUer think prior to posting...

Most DUer think prior to posting...


Not that you would ever, ever, ever, ever, never do such a thing.... bless your little heart.

[October]

76. Most? That's not true. Where did you get that statistic?

[geckosfeet]

4. Thank for keeping the fuck out of MA dipwad.

Talk is cheap Paul, you alarmist pos.

[Javaman]

5. in other news: ron paul is still a jackass. nt

[freshwest]

81. And so are all his friends. So fuck Lew Rockwell:

Llewellyn Harrison Rockwell, Jr.,

commonly Lew Rockwell, is a libertarian writer, activist, and founder and former president of the Ludwig von Mises Institute (he stepped down as president in 2009 but remains as a chairman). Despite the fact that he consistently makes clear his opinions on the topic, no one yet has had the audacity to call him a white supremacist and let him know his so-called praxeology for fixing the economy is basically fascism with bad bow ties instead of jackboots.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Lew_Rockwell

[Arkana]

6. Ron Paul can take his "concern"

and jam it firmly--FIRMLY--in his rectum.

[Mopar151]

7. On a related note:

And the horse he rode in on. I'll try to translate this into Texan "Hey, partner! Does it help if you run out of the storm cellar and SHOOT AT THE FRIGGIN' TORNADO?"

[freshwest]

79. Bwahaha! 'SHOOT AT THE FRIGGIN' TORNADO.' K & R right here.

[SoapBox]

8. HATE this Asshole...but...

I've got to agree.

The bizarre freak show of our Militia Police these days is crazy...they go out of their minds,
running around with their guns and dressed up in the creepy Storm Trooper get ups.

The limp media was simpy breathless...The UseLessAToday paper and CNN, still have NOT given up on the breathless reporting.

Can't stand your Government-Free-Loading-BUTT, however, you got this correct.

[1ProudAtheist]

11. And..........

Like Osama Been Rotten, we could have found him a dozen years later hold-up in some detached fortress in the middle of Bumfuck Egypt.

[AtheistCrusader]

12. Sometimes the old geezer is on the right side for civil liberties... but.

His response here hinges on your worldview framing.

If you can see the lockdown as a voluntary thing, this is not a concern.
If you can't see it as voluntary, then it looks very much like scary JBT's kicking in doors and black helicopters and all that.

I see it as voluntary, but I didn't see it that way until I started talking to residents of the area.

[billh58]

13. You are perpetuating

the right-wing myth that Bostonians were "forced" to remain in their homes, and that storm-trooper tactics were used to conduct house-to-house searches. That is pure and utter bullshit, and I suspect you know it if you have read any of the accurate news reports. The advisories to remain indoors were voluntary, and the searches were professionally and legally conducted as well.

There was a demonstrated and confirmed terrorist threat, and a very real possibility that more bombs would be detonated in the city. Many careless Boston citizens left their homes and thereby complicated the efforts to search for, and possibly contain these assholes.

Please continue to defend Ron Paul and his right-wing propaganda machine, but the facts contradict your, and his assertions.

[Deny and Shred]

17. I find it hard to believe but

I agree with you in that I think Paul is right on this one thing. He is correct that for all the paramilitary, shutting down the city, etc., it was the ordinary citizens who cracked the case, not beefed up police work and home invasions.

At one point during the coverage, it felt like a dry run for martial law, a few more degrees toward boiling the frog. A city on lockdown like that is a suspension of civil liberties, even if you think it necessary.

Questions: If the suspect were not yet found, would Beantown still be on lockdown? At what point would lockdown be lifted, or would it be lifted? If no progress were made in the search, would authorities take further steps, and what might those be?

[geek tragedy]

20. Maybe you should actually read up on what happened instead of taking at face value

the paranoid mythology of what happened.

There was no mandatory lock down, there was a voluntary "shelter in place" request made by the governor.

And, that itself was lifted while the suspect was still at large.

And, note that it lasted all of 8 hours or so, and didn't start until Joker and Tamerlan started littering the streets with fragmentation grenades while resisting arrest.

[cheapdate]

22. Resisting arrest is putting it mildly.

The brothers shot and killed an MIT police officer before they were chased to Watertown.

[Deny and Shred]

35. Paranoid mythology?

I was relying on my recollection of TV coverage at the time. I was on the phone with a friend in Boston who was the first to inform me by saying "Local news is saying the police are calling for a Boston curfew. We gotta stay inside."

True, I have not done much digging since. Perhaps I was properly propagandized if those broadcasts were the genesis of the myth of paranoia.

Voluntary or not, the sight of a horde of fully armed and armored units going house to house felt a little more martial than anything with which I fell comfortable. God forbid a next time(s), but military-style police responses like these becoming more commonplace and being questioned less make us a less free society IMO. They encourage further steps in the future.

[geek tragedy]

37. Relying on the sensationalist media is rarely a good idea.

And, when they're looking for guys with guns and fragmentation bombs, the police are going to wear protective armor/gear as is appropriate.

It's really too gosh darn bad that the gear meant to protect them against the bombs that might be coming their way caused you visual discomfort.

[Deny and Shred]

44. I guess CNN was a bad idea then. I wasn't gonna watch Fox

The visual discomfort was the scenes at the finish line. The decade plus of militarization by steps of the Land of the Free is more an existential discomfort.

[geek tragedy]

48. When police are facing military-level weaponry, not unreasonable to use military-grade protection.

Boston is precisely the type of situation where such equipment can be justified.

It's the other 99.999% of the times where it's alarming. See, e.g., what happened to Occupy Oakland.

[Deny and Shred]

51. OK. I guess I'm falsely alarmed 0.001% of the time.

I'm not trying to say they shouldn't protect themselves appropriately. The TV coverage, which most of America will believe in the future unfortunately, was certainly playing up the idea of a suspension of civil liberties for the city of Boston. It gives more credence to my feeling of a trial run. Probing for blowback.

[geek tragedy]

53. Television coverage overdramatizes everything.

It's how television news departments justify their budgets and existence.

[Deny and Shred]

59. Agreed

I just don't have the time to research every news story in which I am interested. I'm glad I responded because I wouldn't have checked up on what we're talking about, and down the line might have been guilty of spewing the exact drivel 'they' want me to spew.

It does suck that one needs to take the time to fact-check before believing.

Peace

[smirkymonkey]

71. Christ! Why can't people get this through their thick heads!

You will notice none of the paranoia is coming from anybody who lives in the greater Boston area. Interesting.

[geek tragedy]

72. There are a lot of people who know everything. nt

[moosewhisperer]

21. the "shelter in place" WAS lifted

The "shelter in place" WAS lifted about an hour before the police got word on the suspect hiding in the boat. So there's your answer.

[Bragi]

26. The lockdown was lifted before the suspect was found

The authorities ended the lockdown Friday at 6:30 and admitted at their presser that the lockdown had failed to find the suspect. It was ONLY AFTER the lockdown ended that the boat owner went to check his boat, where he saw the suspect and reported this to the police. So not only did the lockdown fail to locate the suspect, it actually delayed his apprehension. Those are the facts.

[geek tragedy]

31. Except it wasn't a lockdown. nt

[Deny and Shred]

40. CNN referred to it as a lockdown several times

That's what I have been referring to. I guess I did take that at face value. The police response still makes me uneasy, and it was the input of the citizens that led to his capture.

[Arkana]

90. Well there's your problem--you listened to CNN.

[DallasNE]

68. The Flaw In The Lockdown

Was that the police did not check out that boat during their dragnet. They searched the area but failed to check an obvious hideout opportunity. Other than that I think the police did a fine job.

[summerschild]

46. They did lift the ban after so many hours. That's when the guy with the boat found him.

I think our "libertarianism" can work against us if we don't take a dose of common sense along with it.

Remember that the authorities had reason to think the brother also had explosives strapped to his chest. Rand Paul and the Republicans would have jumped up and down calling the government officials IRRESPONSIBLE if he had detonated himself and killed some more people.

And it was VOLUNTARY!

[LanternWaste]

55. Removing the colorful and melodramatic adjectives from your posts and we get....

Removing merely the colorful invectives and melodramatic adjectives from your posts and we are left with...

" "

[cynzke]

9. What a load of crap!

[AAO]

14. Fuck you, Ron, and that randy kid of yours!

[Orsino]

15. "Scenes of the search were reminiscent of..."

Dumbass Paul's informed opinion is based on a few glances at a television screen.

[arcane1]

16. Probably not even that, but based on bogus YouTube vids

[freshwest]

82. Or possibly a call from his absolutely biggest fan, Alex Jones.

[Bragi]

23. He is correct

The Boston lockdown is the best evidence of how far America has strayed into becoming a police state. That many of the locals and media cheered for it doesn't change that fact.

[geek tragedy]

25. THERE WAS NO LOCKDOWN. The reason why the 'locals' approved is because

they knew the truth of which the Ron Paul crowd and yourself remain woefully ignorant.

People were free to leave their homes at any time. Many did.

Educate yourself before agreeing with paranoid loons like Ron Paul.

[Bragi]

27. The police used the term "lockdown" /nt

[geek tragedy]

28. Do you have a link to the order issued forbidding Bostonians from leaving

their homes or traveling inside the city?

Of course you don't. Because you're making shit up, which is usually the case when people find themselves agreeing with Ron Paul.

[Bragi]

33. The cops publicly called it a lockdown. I believe them /nt

[geek tragedy]

36. In other words, you concede that there was no order for people

to remain in their homes.

Thanks for playing.

[Bragi]

38. Yawn /nt

[LanternWaste]

58. No cites, no sources, no footnotes, no objectivity... just a yawn.

No cites, no sources, no footnotes, no objectivity... just a yawn.

Quite informative, indeed. The breadth of your analysis is... lacking.

[geek tragedy]

60. It's the intellectual effort typically associated with those who say

"I agree with Ron Paul."

[onenote]

62. Let's go to the videotape

http://www.politico.com/multimedia/video/2013/04/boston-bombings-deval-patrick-police-presser-stay-indoors.html

The Governor thanking people for honoring the "request" that they stay indoors,despite the inconvenience. The Watertown Chief referring to what people are being "asked" to do. No one says "order," or "lockdown" or in any way suggests that people are being compelled to stay inside.

Now that you've had your nap, maybe you can find one of those official references to "lockdown" you claim exist.

[smirkymonkey]

73. You don't live here. You know nothing about this situation.

It was no more alarming when they advise us to stay indoors during a snowstorm or a hurricane so they don't have to come and rescue our stupid, sorry asses for avoiding a request for simple common sense. We were not forced. Sheesh!

[geek tragedy]

32. Were people tossing fragmentation explosives in Bill Maher's neighborhood? nt

[Bragi]

34. I agree, Maher put it very well /nt

[sheshe2]

87. Bill wasn't here. Were you?

102 Hours in Boston.

h/t Bigtree

http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2013/04/28/bombreconstruct/VbSZhzHm35yR88EVmVdbDM/story.html?s_campaign=sm_tw

[LAGC]

85. Oh no you didn't!

Bill Maher under the bus in 3...2...1...

[Historic NY]

30. Ron Paul, Ron Paul.......wtf is he....a loser.

[DallasNE]

39. We Know What Ron Paul Wouldn't Have Done

What we don't know is what he would have done.

We know that we got lucky in that the SUV they car jacked was low on gas otherwise they were headed to Times Square to set off their remaining munitions so these were very dangerous criminals. They killed a MIT police officer because they feared he may have recognized them. Extraordinary measures were called for. The police wanted to keep people off the streets to prevent another car jacking/kidnapping and who knows what consequences.

So Ron Paul, under these extreme circumstances, what would you have done and how might that have also ended with the capture/killing of these mad killers.

[Bragi]

42. Fair question

I don't know what he'd say, but my response see would have been to tell police to do police work, and tell citizens to be vigilant. We now know that the likely result of this would have been that the boat owner would have checked out his boat earlier in the day, and identified the (unarmed) suspect earlier than what happened.

[classof56]

63. Please share your definition of police work.

Frankly, if I as a citizen in that circumstance had been told to "be vigilant" while a couple of armed-to-the-teeth terrorists were on the loose, ready to kill anyone who got in their way, I'd be thoroughly pissed off at such lame advice from law enforcement.

Also, since it's unclear just when the suspect got into the boat, who knows when the owner may have found him? I also question whether the suspect was unarmed when he took refuge in the boat, given the mayhem he'd left in his path that day. Maybe you know that for sure. To me, police work includes whatever it takes to assure public safety in such an extraordinary and dangerous situation. Eight hours of "shelter in place" and due diligence tracking a killer does not seem excessive to me, but I've never been involved in police work, so maybe I don't know what I'm talking about.

Blessings.

[DallasNE]

65. That Assumes A Lot

Police knew that he had been wounded because of blood in the SUV they car jacked. But they did not know the extent of the wound(s) so you fail to address the issue of another car jacking had he not been so severely wounded.

The only hindsight thing I can come up with is why the police did not check out that boat because boats and outbuildings would be a natural hideout location.

[groundloop]

41. This should enlighten more people to the fact that Ron Paul is an idiot

Yeah Ron, keep running your mouth. The more stupid crap of yours that actually makes it onto the news will demonstrate what a moron you and your "libertarian" followers are.

[graywarrior]

43. I'm sick of non Bostonian experts flapping their gums about this town.

[Cha]

50. I bet you are, graywarrior.. I'm sick of it way out here

West of California.

[smirkymonkey]

75. Hear, hear!

[sheshe2]

89. As am I graywarrior!

[Cha]

49. I trust the people of Boston to know what was actually

happening and why than I do those who are whining about it from far away. Fuck 'em if they can't handle reality.

Take their whiny asses to Boston and tell it those who went through it instead of pontificating on tv.

More information will become available but so far here's a comprehensive account of how it went down from the Boston Globe.

h/t bigtree.. http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2013/04/28/bombreconstruct/VbSZhzHm35yR88EVmVdbDM/story.html?s_campaign=sm_tw

thanks geek

[sheshe2]

56. Thanks for posting bigtree's link again!

I wish some here would read the damn thing, like you did, Cha!

[Cha]

67. It's more fun for them to take

pot shots at the Boston Police and FBI who so fearlessly did Their JOBS.

There will always be whiners on the internet that someone/anyone isn't doing it the way they would have done it This is a particularly egregious example.

BOSTON STRONG, SHE~

[freshwest]

83. Or Will Rivers Pitt's piece SINCE HE WAS THERE.

They're afraid to read what he wrote about what's being pushed by the Paulbots and their allies.

[sheshe2]

84. The people in the back seat ALWAYS,

Know better than the driver!

Thanks freshwest!

Damn, but my head is getting bruised!

[freshwest]

88. Ah, don't bang your head against the wall. It won't work. They'll just leave the board and

tune into Infowars tonight for more ammo. It's addictive.

But they never let on what the end result of following his ideas will be. Here's a sample:

ThatPoshGirl's Guide to Conservative Hideaways

Hello Conservative!

So, you lost, huh? Sorry to hear that. I know how hard it must be for you. I heard you were thinking of heading to Canada, but then you discovered they have socialized medicine up there and you changed your plans. You may be wondering what free-market havens you can head to now that your country is dead.

Good news! I've compiled a list of the top three destinations you can go to to get your Freep on.

I'm sure you are hoping to get away to a relatively wealthy nation. Unfortunately, all the other countries in the list of top ten nominal GDPs, outside of the United States, have national healthcare, even India and Brazil. In fact, to find a country without a national healthcare system, we have to go all the way down to lucky number 18, Indonesia.

Indonesia



Slum life, Jakarta Indonesia. Picture taken by Jonathan McIntosh, 2004.

You're sure to appreciate the rampant deforestation and pollution caused by lax or non-existent environmental regulation. Beautiful Buyat Bay is teeming with arsenic and other heavy metals from the unregulated dumping of tailings from Grasberg Mine, the largest gold mine in the world. Perhaps you'll even enjoy long swims in the toxic water, it's not like hair and teeth matter, anyway.

There are a couple of problems, however. Even though Indonesia doesn't currently have a national healthcare system, they are in the process of implementing a program that will provide 100% coverage by 2014. The country was also the home of Barack Hussein Obama for four years. So, maybe it's not exactly perfect.

If Indonesia doesn't tickle your fancy, you could give Somalia a try.

Somalia



Somali Pirates

Following the collapse of communism and a civil war, Somalia became a Libertarian paradise. The country has no functional government, which should set your anarchist heart a twitter. There really is no better place to let your free-market spirit run free than Somalia. Sure, you may have to battle pirates and rape gangs, but that's a small price to pay for freedom.

Of course, Somalia is on the eastern most cost of Africa, so, you know, blah people.

Don't feel like battling pirates? Then Honduras may be the place for you.

Honduras



A Conservative taking a Swim in Honduras

In Honduras, the quality and availability of healthcare is directly tied to income level. Sure, they speak Spanish in Honduras, but you'd technically still get to be an American. In the past 20 years, Honduras has continuously moved toward decentralization and privatization of just about everything.

If you decide to move to Honduras, you might want to hire a bodyguard, as Honduras has the highest intentional homicide rate in the world. Don't worry, though, there are surely plenty to find in the free-market.

So, there you go. Three places built on the conservative values you cherish. Have fun and don't let the door hit you on the way out.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/11/11/1160614/-ThatPoshGirl-s-Guide-to-Conservative-Hideaways

The Daily Kos permits posting their articles in their entirety.

So don't worry. Let it slide, or read Will's article. He says exactly what to do. Yes, we have Paulbots. There are still people who love Boston and its people and are proud of you.

[GeorgeGist]

52. Iokiyad

Right DU?

[billh58]

57. Now you're blaming

Democrats for a non-existent exercise of martial law? Or, is President Obama somehow complicit in this non-event?

[geek tragedy]

61. No, we just dwell in reality instead of swimming in the Ron Paul Paranoid Pool, nt

[LAGC]

86. +1.

If this had happened in Bumfuck, Texas and a Republican Administration had resorted to such authoritarian measures, DU would be singing an entirely different tune, no doubt.

It's amazing how principles go out the window when its "our side" perverting the Constitution...

[Hekate]

64. Ron Paul has some support here, mostly from non-Bostonians

In fact, I have seen no support for this position from people who actually live in Boston and its outlying areas.

I do believe the "paramilitary troops" have all gone away now. Cops are paramilitary -- that's how they roll. National Guard are actual military, but with a different mission.

Having done this particular job, they have taken their presence back to normal levels and normal staffing, afaik. If that makes Mr. Paul nervous, maybe he should give us his alternative for this kind of societal infrastructure. (And I don't mean that adolescent fantasy by Ayn Rand.)

[randome]

66. Before I read this thread, I wonder how many 'Fuck Ron Pauls' I'll find.

Hm, five 'fucks' and only two 'Fuck Ron Pauls'. Oh well, bump it up to three: FUCK RON PAUL!

[obama2terms]

69. I don't get why so many

Republicans and libertarians are whining about this. If there was a dangerous terrorist out on the loose, why would anyone want to be outside? No telling what type of weapons that guy had, or if he would strike again etc.

[Dawson Leery]

74. Ronnie, you need to talk to your son first.

He does not like the usage of drones against people in foreign countries who recruit for violence against the US, yet he has no problem with drones being used in domestic situations.

[BobTheSubgenius]

77. The takeaway here?

Leave policing to the private citizen, because he or she is obviously better at it than the professionals.

What an asshole.

[Mopar151]

78. OK, another try at it for folks from out of town :

This is what it looks like when the grown-ups are in charge.

Which is what we are only starting to become used to. We've had some fine examples of what not to do in the recent past just like everywheres else - but when we need to control a crowd in the hope nobody else needs to die today, the Governor asking nice beats the crap out of tear gas and flash grenades.

[ProgressiveChristian]

80. Hey Ron...

Here's a pic of one of those "jack booted thugs" delivering milk to the family of a 17 month old, who were unable to leave their home due to the shelter in place rules.. Yes, Boston under "occupation" jackass...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/23/john-bradley-boston-police-officer-_n_3141137.html