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DonViejo

(60,536 posts)
Wed Apr 24, 2013, 11:10 AM Apr 2013

Boston bomb suspect's aunt: Mosque won't bury Tamerlan Tsarnaev

Source: NBC

By Adrienne Mong, Correspondent, NBC News

MAKHACHKALA, Russia — A Boston-area mosque has refused to hold a funeral for Tamerlan Tsarnaev, the dead suspect in the attack on the Boston Marathon, his aunt said Wednesday.

American authorities have told the family that they can have Tsarnaev’s body, and an uncle approached the mosque to request a burial and funeral but was declined, said the aunt, Patimat Suleimanova.

She said that she did not know the name of the mosque but that it was one the family attended. A mosque in Cambridge, Mass., has said that Tsarnaev attended and occasionally caused disruptions and that mosque leaders threatened to kick him out.

A spokesman for the mosque, run by the Islamic Society of Boston, has said that congregants have been questioned by the FBI. The mosque did not immediately return a request for comment Wednesday from NBC News.

-snip-

Read more: http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/04/24/17893358-boston-bomb-suspects-aunt-mosque-wont-bury-tamerlan-tsarnaev?lite

83 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Boston bomb suspect's aunt: Mosque won't bury Tamerlan Tsarnaev (Original Post) DonViejo Apr 2013 OP
Who can blame them? nt Poll_Blind Apr 2013 #1
How do Muslims feel about cremation? Common Sense Party Apr 2013 #2
It's generally forbidden, I believe. (nt) Posteritatis Apr 2013 #4
That's what I was guessing, but I did not know for certain. Common Sense Party Apr 2013 #8
If a safe place for burial cannot be found, burial at sea is an option. MADem Apr 2013 #74
Two reasons why we Muslims do not burn the dead DonViejo Apr 2013 #9
Gracias. Common Sense Party Apr 2013 #16
Donada. nt DonViejo Apr 2013 #20
Historically there's another reason for the prohibition Xithras Apr 2013 #50
Very interesting. snagglepuss Apr 2013 #55
excellent kiri Apr 2013 #64
I don't blame the Mosque in the least. Marrah_G Apr 2013 #3
Neither do I Brimley Apr 2013 #77
Because your whole family is scum and the local Islamic community wants nothing to do with you! Crowman1979 Apr 2013 #5
There is nothing to indicate his family were terrorists Jennicut Apr 2013 #43
this is a tough one. it is lose lose for them. religiously, they have an obligation to bury the man. seabeyond Apr 2013 #6
I don't think they are doing this because 'we' lack understanding, I think that they are Bluenorthwest Apr 2013 #10
thank you. i was only looking at it from a very superficial perspective. the simplest of forgiveness seabeyond Apr 2013 #11
All Christians have to do is... SkyDaddy7 Apr 2013 #71
I don't believe Tien1985 Apr 2013 #79
Crab Bait Anyone? 1ProudAtheist Apr 2013 #7
Fuck that... Body farm... Pelican Apr 2013 #76
Just the fact that they asked them shows how clueless they are .. flamingdem Apr 2013 #12
mom is going through a grieving process Skittles Apr 2013 #60
these replies all seem like xenophobic teabag kneejerk comments. marble falls Apr 2013 #13
I see it more as this. Since he obviously fell out of the mosque's teachings, was not a member, why uppityperson Apr 2013 #18
My issue isn't with the mosque. My issue is with the replies from DU members. marble falls Apr 2013 #22
Many here are not the shiniest BB's in the bag! peace13 Apr 2013 #56
Quite the opposite--this murdering pig's crimes removed him from geek tragedy Apr 2013 #21
He may have been a murderer, he was not a pig. We seem to be living in a nation of murderers.... marble falls Apr 2013 #25
Oh please. His actions were against Islam, and ergo the Muslim community disowned him. geek tragedy Apr 2013 #28
Since when do we care about the tenents of Islam? My point isn't about religion at all. And I .... marble falls Apr 2013 #35
That is the reaction people have to murdering scumbags. geek tragedy Apr 2013 #36
And its wrong if we hold to our values in here in the US. Murdering "scumbag" or not. Flip.... marble falls Apr 2013 #68
The guy isn't being tortured or lynched. geek tragedy Apr 2013 #69
This is someone who deliberately murdered and maimed innocent people. LeftishBrit Apr 2013 #62
He's dead. Don't you think he's out of the sphere of this plane for justice? Defiling corpses is.... marble falls Apr 2013 #70
+1 cali Apr 2013 #81
Why? intheflow Apr 2013 #24
Read the comments by the members "pig", "crab bait", "place him into a sewer".... marble falls Apr 2013 #29
He's a pig and pissing on his grave because he's a terrorist. intheflow Apr 2013 #32
Not at all. He was a terrorist. He is also a human. Speculation on an improbable is what got all.... marble falls Apr 2013 #41
I agree it's a dehumanizing statement, intheflow Apr 2013 #44
We can agree on that last. marble falls Apr 2013 #47
Crab Bait 1ProudAtheist Apr 2013 #40
If US justice is good enough for you and me, it would have been good enough for Osama bin Laden. I.. marble falls Apr 2013 #42
I Like Your Intellectual Approach In This Thread DallasNE Apr 2013 #54
This Poster is not John2 Apr 2013 #63
Thanks, sometimes there is a valid third way. marble falls Apr 2013 #67
"cycle of hatred on both sides" Union Scribe Apr 2013 #75
Thank you. No one needs to be right or wrong to be politely heard. marble falls Apr 2013 #66
Good, cremate him and toss his ashes down the sewer. Auntie Bush Apr 2013 #14
An unmarked grave? LeftInTX Apr 2013 #15
The government has unmarked graves for unclaimed bodies. geek tragedy Apr 2013 #17
Yup. It would have to be unmarked, or there'd be a lot of whizzing on that plot. nt Common Sense Party Apr 2013 #23
Died at Beth Israel hospital and his mosque won't bury him. intheflow Apr 2013 #19
I've been waiting for Mom or Dad... DonViejo Apr 2013 #26
His father apparently didn't approve of his extremist views of Islam. intheflow Apr 2013 #30
Well, the father appears more secular, the mom eissa Apr 2013 #31
She doesn't strike me as very devout, either. intheflow Apr 2013 #34
Mom was the one pushing religion... DonViejo Apr 2013 #33
Worrying about your kid getting into drugs and trouble intheflow Apr 2013 #38
And I didn't say she was pushing extremism either... DonViejo Apr 2013 #39
Well, you're waiting for the parents to spew Jewish conspiracy theories intheflow Apr 2013 #45
The mother is all ready spewing anti-American conspiracy theories... DonViejo Apr 2013 #48
So you're basing your assumption in part on something that hasn't been reported. intheflow Apr 2013 #52
Yes and no.... DonViejo Apr 2013 #57
Ever read the comment sections of presstv.com? octothorpe Apr 2013 #65
I had not even thought of that - dying in a Jewish hospital. About burying patricia92243 Apr 2013 #27
It's not and never has been a Jewish hospital. cali Apr 2013 #80
Beth Israel Deaconess Hospital, in its current incarnation, is not a Jewish hospital. intheflow Apr 2013 #83
I really wish his family would all just stop talking. hamsterjill Apr 2013 #37
Lucky for us this does not reanimate the monster. truthisfreedom Apr 2013 #46
***NOT TRUE, said member of Boston Muslim community, elleng Apr 2013 #49
Too bad Taverner Apr 2013 #51
I believe the reason is to protect Islamic Society of Boston muxin Apr 2013 #53
My thought, as well. Or at least that particular mosque. Welcome to DU, muxin! JudyM Apr 2013 #61
He needs to be buried, period, in whatever cemetery will take his body. colorado_ufo Apr 2013 #58
Ahh-- A breeze of fresh air out of the wilderness warrant46 Apr 2013 #59
Thank you for what you write. +1 uppityperson Apr 2013 #73
good for them!!! \n Phillip McCleod Apr 2013 #72
This story sounds wrong LostOne4Ever Apr 2013 #78
Dad wants to take him home to Chechnya for burial marshall Apr 2013 #82

Common Sense Party

(14,139 posts)
2. How do Muslims feel about cremation?
Wed Apr 24, 2013, 11:17 AM
Apr 2013

If they try to bury this guy anywhere in Boston, prepare for a lot of dead grass on that grave.

Common Sense Party

(14,139 posts)
8. That's what I was guessing, but I did not know for certain.
Wed Apr 24, 2013, 11:25 AM
Apr 2013

I still wouldn't bury the guy anywhere near Boston.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
74. If a safe place for burial cannot be found, burial at sea is an option.
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 04:13 AM
Apr 2013

It's not the "optimal" choice, but I get the sense that the good people at that masjid do not regard this guy as a Muslim in good standing, which is appropriate given his conduct before his death. If he's not a Muslim as a consequence of his conduct, he's not entitled to Muslim rites upon death.

Such a conundrum!

DonViejo

(60,536 posts)
9. Two reasons why we Muslims do not burn the dead
Wed Apr 24, 2013, 11:31 AM
Apr 2013


1] Allah has given us clear guidelines on how to bury our dead; what we do not do, what we have to do, and what is permitted to do. And the teachings of Islam includes treating the dead with respect in a way that will fit the dead person. We wash him, cleanse him, and put a white shroud around him, then we offer a funeral prayer (janazah) and pray forgiveness for him. Allah does not include cremation as a part of it. Thus we do not do this nor are we permitted to do so.

2] Allah says:
"And indeed We have honoured the Children of Adam" [17 0]
Cremation is deemed as an act of dishonor to the dead. We derive at this by what we call Qiyas alawla, elevated analogy. Meaning, if we are not permitted to trample on the dead body, or sit on the actual grave itself, then more so with burning the body to ashes!


###

http://islamicemirate.com/fiqh-jurisprudence/death/1581-why-is-cremation-not-permissible-in-islam-why-do-we-not-believe-in-the-qpledge-of-allegianceq.html

PS- I'm not a Muslim; the headline of this comment originates at the site linked above

Xithras

(16,191 posts)
50. Historically there's another reason for the prohibition
Wed Apr 24, 2013, 01:37 PM
Apr 2013

In fact, the prohibitions against cremation in Judaism, Christianity, and Islam can all be traced back to common source.

Many primitive and animist religions revere fire, and the Middle East was dominated by fire worshippers including the Zoroastrians and Molochites during their formative centuries. Because these religions worshipped fire and were considered evil by the early Abrahamic religions, any practices that mimiced those religions were strictly banned.

FWIW, there's even a reference to this in the Bible, though very few people understand its meaning today: Leviticus 18:21, "And thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through the fire to Moloch". This was a reference to a fire worshipper practice where Canaanite parents would sacrifice their children to the fire god Moloch and incinerate their bodies. It appears that the Canaanites believed that incinerating the body sent the soul to the afterlife. The early Jews wanted nothing to do with that practice, for obvious reasons.

As Judaism spawned its Christian and Muslim offshoots, and as those religions worked hard to convert or conquer other "pagan" (usually fire worshipper) religions in the Middle East, the prohibition against adopting their practices simply became part of those faiths.

kiri

(786 posts)
64. excellent
Wed Apr 24, 2013, 06:31 PM
Apr 2013

An excellent description. In those times, earth, air, fire, water were about all these societies knew. Many myths and superstitions arose, some of which persist.





Jennicut

(25,415 posts)
43. There is nothing to indicate his family were terrorists
Wed Apr 24, 2013, 01:05 PM
Apr 2013

besides the two brothers. The mother may be mentally ill but the family just seems in shock. That being said, they need a reality check. I would go with the cremation route or a private burial. He was a terrorist.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
6. this is a tough one. it is lose lose for them. religiously, they have an obligation to bury the man.
Wed Apr 24, 2013, 11:22 AM
Apr 2013

with our lack of understanding and unwillingness to look beyond, i can absolutely understand why they would not get anywhere near this.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
10. I don't think they are doing this because 'we' lack understanding, I think that they are
Wed Apr 24, 2013, 11:36 AM
Apr 2013

doing this because they respect their own community and religion. The Mumbai attackers were denied burial as well:
A MUSLIM graveyard today refused to bury nine of the gunmen who terrorised Mumbai.

The men were not true followers of the Islamic faith, according to the influential Muslim Jama Masjid Trust, which runs the 7.5-acre Badakabrastan graveyard in central Mumbai.

"People who committed this heinous crime cannot be called Muslim," said Hanif Nalkhande, a trustee. "Islam does not permit this sort of barbaric crime."
http://www.scotsman.com/news/international/mumbai-killers-to-be-denied-a-muslim-burial-1-1150127

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
11. thank you. i was only looking at it from a very superficial perspective. the simplest of forgiveness
Wed Apr 24, 2013, 11:39 AM
Apr 2013

which most if not all religions promote. more the turn the other cheek side of religion.

but yes, you are correct. i see that.

thanks.

SkyDaddy7

(6,045 posts)
71. All Christians have to do is...
Wed Apr 24, 2013, 09:04 PM
Apr 2013

"get saved" & then they can kill kill kill & churches have no problem at all burying Christian terrorist & mass killers.

I guess is I believed in that sort of thing I would be a Christian not a Muslim...You get all the benefits of an angry god without the ramifications of your own actions. LOL!

Tien1985

(920 posts)
79. I don't believe
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 06:42 AM
Apr 2013

The Mosque has an obligation to bury him (unless you meant the family does, which I'd understand).

I bet a UU congregation would handle burial as respectfully as they could, but I don't think the family would want that.

I understand why they don't want anything to so with him, I just find this sad.

 

Pelican

(1,156 posts)
76. Fuck that... Body farm...
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 05:55 AM
Apr 2013

Might as well get some use out of him...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_farm

A body farm is a research facility where human decomposition can be studied in a variety of settings. The aim is to gain a better understanding of the decomposition process, permitting the development of techniques for extracting information (such as the timing and circumstances of death) from human remains. Body farm research is particularly important within forensic anthropology and related disciplines, and has applications in the fields of law enforcement and forensic science. Five such facilities exist in the United States, with the research facility operated by Texas State University at Freeman Ranch being the largest at seven acres.

flamingdem

(39,303 posts)
12. Just the fact that they asked them shows how clueless they are ..
Wed Apr 24, 2013, 11:39 AM
Apr 2013

can you imagine what the Mosque would endure especially if "Mom" is still saying it's a conspiracy.

Mom needs to apologize to the victims, step 1.

uppityperson

(115,674 posts)
18. I see it more as this. Since he obviously fell out of the mosque's teachings, was not a member, why
Wed Apr 24, 2013, 12:04 PM
Apr 2013

should they bury him there? I do not know their reasoning, but would understand not burying someone outside the faith in their cemetery.

 

peace13

(11,076 posts)
56. Many here are not the shiniest BB's in the bag!
Wed Apr 24, 2013, 02:13 PM
Apr 2013

This place looks how it looks. We can't worry about how others perceive it because ....we can't control it.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
21. Quite the opposite--this murdering pig's crimes removed him from
Wed Apr 24, 2013, 12:08 PM
Apr 2013

the local Islamic community of faith.

He was not what Muslims are.

marble falls

(56,358 posts)
25. He may have been a murderer, he was not a pig. We seem to be living in a nation of murderers....
Wed Apr 24, 2013, 12:16 PM
Apr 2013

shall we dehumanize them, too. Dehumanizing is one of the things racists do to justify their murdering ways. Whether or not the murdering bomber is buried with religious rites matters not to him. But how we react to it says a lot about us.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
28. Oh please. His actions were against Islam, and ergo the Muslim community disowned him.
Wed Apr 24, 2013, 12:24 PM
Apr 2013

No one wants his body, so an unmarked grave is the solution.

Boo hoo.

marble falls

(56,358 posts)
35. Since when do we care about the tenents of Islam? My point isn't about religion at all. And I ....
Wed Apr 24, 2013, 12:41 PM
Apr 2013

have no beef with his mosque. I am talking about the dehumanizing speech about this person made by members here on DU. There's a bandwagon of some pretty ugly speech and an air of oneupsmanship about it. It doesn't show us as very progressive at all. I bet the comments are not all that different than that being made right now in the rightwingasphere right this minute. One way or another the guy will be buried sanctioned by his faith or not. But the hatred spoken here bothers me a lot.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
36. That is the reaction people have to murdering scumbags.
Wed Apr 24, 2013, 12:42 PM
Apr 2013

You'll find it's more typical than atypical.

marble falls

(56,358 posts)
68. And its wrong if we hold to our values in here in the US. Murdering "scumbag" or not. Flip....
Wed Apr 24, 2013, 07:11 PM
Apr 2013

flopping candidates to a flip flopping public. Core human values mean mean something unless the 'perp' is a 'scumbag'? Situational ethics.

Typical? Maybe. But shameful never the less.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
69. The guy isn't being tortured or lynched.
Wed Apr 24, 2013, 07:15 PM
Apr 2013

He's having his memory and name disrespected, deservedly so.

LeftishBrit

(41,190 posts)
62. This is someone who deliberately murdered and maimed innocent people.
Wed Apr 24, 2013, 03:02 PM
Apr 2013

I don't blame the mosque for wanting nothing to do with him, or people on DU or elsewhere for hating him.

marble falls

(56,358 posts)
70. He's dead. Don't you think he's out of the sphere of this plane for justice? Defiling corpses is....
Wed Apr 24, 2013, 07:22 PM
Apr 2013

not a hallmark of an enlightened society. Why can't he just be buried? All this glee is as the least undignified. What's next eat his liver? Smear his blood on our faces? Scalp him so he'll be bald in the next Bardo? Cut his throat and give him a Colombian Neck-tie? At what point would we be going too far and beyond? I think its at the point where we begin to sound like Rush Limpbaugh and Glen Buke.

intheflow

(28,406 posts)
24. Why?
Wed Apr 24, 2013, 12:10 PM
Apr 2013

I see many people defending the mosque's autonomy to decide who is worthy of being buried as a Muslim. That's called Freedom of Religion. The Imam has said such violent acts proves Tsarnaev was not a true follower of Islam or Allah, that's why they're not burying him.

So what makes you think the responses here are xenophobic? No one has said anything about keeping out immigrants (xenophobia), no one has disparaged Muslims or Chechnyans (teabaggery). Yours is the kneejerk comment if you can't back it up.

marble falls

(56,358 posts)
29. Read the comments by the members "pig", "crab bait", "place him into a sewer"....
Wed Apr 24, 2013, 12:27 PM
Apr 2013

"Because your whole family is scum and the local Islamic community wants nothing to do with you!", "Yup. It would have to be unmarked, or there'd be a lot of whizzing on that plot.", "I've been waiting for Mom or Dad...to start screaming "he died at a Jew hospital? He's being treated by Jews? Conspiracy, conspiracy, conspiracy!!!", "I had not even thought of that - dying in a Jewish hospital. About burying him, I believe there is a good chance his body would be dug up and desecrated. His family needs to keep this in mind while they make a decision about the body." How many bodies in the US are dug up and desicrated in this country so where does this come from???????

I bet if we monitored the right wing blogs and forums, we'd be reading this same sort of hate speech.

intheflow

(28,406 posts)
32. He's a pig and pissing on his grave because he's a terrorist.
Wed Apr 24, 2013, 12:37 PM
Apr 2013

Are you suggesting everyone who condemns terrorists are xenophobic? I remember similar things said about McVeigh and the Unibomber, homegrown American boys. And I refuted that one comment about the Jew conspiracy which was posted after your original post. Also, noting that some asshole might dig up his body does not make DUers xenophobic, it makes them realists living in this fucked up Rush Limbaugh-loving country. No posts on this page are advocating digging up his body.

marble falls

(56,358 posts)
41. Not at all. He was a terrorist. He is also a human. Speculation on an improbable is what got all....
Wed Apr 24, 2013, 12:53 PM
Apr 2013

voter id reform teapublicans in a jam in the end. The real issue wasn't id reform it was about voter suppression. Why even mention digging someone up as a reason to further humiliate a corpse and/or his family? My comments aren't about anybody actively digging him up - I've already stipulated its an event that just doesn't happen in this country over political reasons. Its about even having the notion or using the notion to further "punish" the terrorist and/or his family. And we won't even mention the weirdness needed to propose punishing a corpse. I am very suspicious of people who refer to other humans as a "pig" or as "animals" or "less than human". Its generally a racist conceit used to dehumanize people and classes of people..

intheflow

(28,406 posts)
44. I agree it's a dehumanizing statement,
Wed Apr 24, 2013, 01:08 PM
Apr 2013

but given the level of dehumanizing activity demonstrated by the Tsarnaev brothers, it a completely understandable and human reaction. It is not necessarily demonstrative of prejudice against anything but dehumanizing actions, akin to calling police pigs when they engage in police brutality.

Also, digging up a corpse is certainly extreme, but it's not as though grave desecration is unknown in the US. Here are a couple recent examples:

http://www.witn.com/home/headlines/Elizabeth-City-Police-Investigating-Bizarre-Grave-Desecration-Reburial-199468551.html

http://www.suntimes.com/news/crime/14549638-418/muslim-graves-desecrated-at-evergreen-park-cemetery.html

The world is filled with some very sick people. That's a fact.

 

1ProudAtheist

(346 posts)
40. Crab Bait
Wed Apr 24, 2013, 12:46 PM
Apr 2013

Was good enough for Osama Been Rotten, why not this guy? Nothing outlandish about my comment. Check yourself before condemning others.

marble falls

(56,358 posts)
42. If US justice is good enough for you and me, it would have been good enough for Osama bin Laden. I..
Wed Apr 24, 2013, 12:59 PM
Apr 2013

really would have preferred him being brought in a US court. As a Navy vet I have not a thing against burial at sea. I have no problem with burial at sea for Osama bin Laden, I wish he had been brought before justice in a US court first. So maybe you need to check yourself first. Hate speech is hate speech.

DallasNE

(7,392 posts)
54. I Like Your Intellectual Approach In This Thread
Wed Apr 24, 2013, 01:56 PM
Apr 2013

And sticking to your principles. Good job. Hate is hate so it is not situational and neither are principles. There is no time that hate is proper. The ACLU faces this wrath all of the time. Stick to your guns (figure of speech). I'm with you here.

 

John2

(2,730 posts)
63. This Poster is not
Wed Apr 24, 2013, 05:55 PM
Apr 2013

the only one, because I agree. I wonder if there was the same responses about Timothy McVeigh? It is just an endless cycle of hatred on both sides. And you have people incubating it. Innocent people are being murdered by both sides. He was a troubled young man but he wasn't a pig. I would say the same about McVeigh. I've said many times that I'm not religious, but I don't understand people that calls themselves Christians. The founder of their faith even forgave his murderers on the Cross. It is nothing but hate.

Union Scribe

(7,099 posts)
75. "cycle of hatred on both sides"
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 05:42 AM
Apr 2013

Both sides? You can't actually be comparing people talking some trash about a dead asshole and the dead asshole who blew people up. Those are not even in the same universe of hatred, so there is no other side to the "cycle" you're talking about.

Auntie Bush

(17,528 posts)
14. Good, cremate him and toss his ashes down the sewer.
Wed Apr 24, 2013, 11:45 AM
Apr 2013

No one wants anything to do with him? Or toss him in the sewer without cremation if that's against his religion.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
17. The government has unmarked graves for unclaimed bodies.
Wed Apr 24, 2013, 12:01 PM
Apr 2013

Perfect and fitting resolution to this problem.

intheflow

(28,406 posts)
19. Died at Beth Israel hospital and his mosque won't bury him.
Wed Apr 24, 2013, 12:04 PM
Apr 2013

There is something of karmic justice unfolding in all of this.

DonViejo

(60,536 posts)
26. I've been waiting for Mom or Dad...
Wed Apr 24, 2013, 12:17 PM
Apr 2013

to start screaming "he died at a Jew hospital? He's being treated by Jews? Conspiracy, conspiracy, conspiracy!!!"

intheflow

(28,406 posts)
30. His father apparently didn't approve of his extremist views of Islam.
Wed Apr 24, 2013, 12:32 PM
Apr 2013

From what I gather about the family, they're rather secular Muslims. A correlation might be akin to the majority of Americans claim to believe in God but the majority of Americans don't go to church regularly. I haven't heard anything to suggest there was anything anti-Semitic in these boys' motivations, either, at least not according to Dzhokhar's statement. He said they were motivated by US wars, which is far from saying the attacks were motivated by Islam or anti-semitism. Methinks you're jumping to your own biased conclusions.

eissa

(4,238 posts)
31. Well, the father appears more secular, the mom
Wed Apr 24, 2013, 12:35 PM
Apr 2013

not so much. She seems like the lunatic in the family that the older brother takes after.

intheflow

(28,406 posts)
34. She doesn't strike me as very devout, either.
Wed Apr 24, 2013, 12:41 PM
Apr 2013

I haven't heard her saying Allah forgives him or he's a good Jahadist for Islam. She's defending her son's honor, she's probably in deep denial that she raised a terrorist. She does seem a bit nutty, but none of that is proof she holds extremist Muslim views.

intheflow

(28,406 posts)
38. Worrying about your kid getting into drugs and trouble
Wed Apr 24, 2013, 12:43 PM
Apr 2013

and trying to give them a moral compass is very, very different than being an extremist Muslim. Even the post you link to says the son went overboard with Islam. It doesn't suggest the mother was pushing extremism.

intheflow

(28,406 posts)
45. Well, you're waiting for the parents to spew Jewish conspiracy theories
Wed Apr 24, 2013, 01:10 PM
Apr 2013

so forgive me for interpreting that as you thought the parents held extremist views.

DonViejo

(60,536 posts)
48. The mother is all ready spewing anti-American conspiracy theories...
Wed Apr 24, 2013, 01:20 PM
Apr 2013

and she was present when her son was being instructed by Misha, the radicalized convert to Islam. She further believes 9/11 was an anti-Muslim conspiracy hatched by the U.S. What hasn't been reported is that that alleged anti-Muslim conspiracy was done by the U.S. at the behest of Israel. Why shouldn't I expect this woman to go ape over her sons being treated by Jews (an Israeli national no less) in a Jewish hospital?

BTW, there's no need to ask forgiveness, I didn't take your comment as a slap.

intheflow

(28,406 posts)
52. So you're basing your assumption in part on something that hasn't been reported.
Wed Apr 24, 2013, 01:43 PM
Apr 2013

And you don't provide links to the other stuff you're citing. In the first 5 pages of my google search of "tsarnaev mother anti-american" I only found one reference to one conversation she overheard between Misha and Tamerlan, and did not find anything suggesting she was anti-American. Even the fact that she's saying her sons have been framed is no more anti-American than DUers who often suggest our government might be up to something less than noble pursuits in the world. Especially when she seems in so much denial that her own little angels could have been anything less than angelic. I still maintain you're jumping to conclusions based on your own biases.

DonViejo

(60,536 posts)
57. Yes and no....
Wed Apr 24, 2013, 02:21 PM
Apr 2013

a key element of the "America wants to destroy Muslims" and that particular 9/11 conspiracy theory is that we (the U.S.) did it at the behest and on behalf of Israel. That the media chooses not to report that is their choice. Somewhere here on DU is a lengthy interview with the Uncle, in that interview he discusses the impact of Misha on the family as well as that the mother began wearing the head scarf.

OTOH, I suspect she won't be talking to the media any more or, should I say, I'm hoping she won't. I don't have any link to provide you with to prove my instinct, I just feel after her comments to CNN yesterday, she won't be talking. http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014464121#op I don't think she'll be coming to the U.S. either (update at the same link).

If I have a religious bias, it is toward fundamentalist Christians, their control over elected officials, combined with their attempts to mold the U.S. government into representing their beliefs solely, not Muslims. My bias toward this mother is based on the things she has said and done while she was in this country but that has nothing to do with her religion.

I think you have a bias to the, "oh! This poor mother" school of thought

Have you read this article:
I Knew the Boston Bombers’ Mother: What She Told Me About 9/11, Islam, and Her Sons
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/04/21/i-knew-the-boston-bombers-mother-what-she-told-me-about-9-11-islam-and-her-sons.html

patricia92243

(12,590 posts)
27. I had not even thought of that - dying in a Jewish hospital. About burying
Wed Apr 24, 2013, 12:17 PM
Apr 2013

him, I believe there is a good chance his body would be dug up and desecrated. His family needs to keep this in mind while they make a decision about the body.

intheflow

(28,406 posts)
83. Beth Israel Deaconess Hospital, in its current incarnation, is not a Jewish hospital.
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 09:16 AM
Apr 2013

However, Beth Israel Hospital was indeed founded in 1916 specifically to treat Jewish patients during a time of rampant anti-Semitism. They alone provided doctors and staff who spoke Yiddish and prepared kosher meals.
http://www.bidmc.org/AboutBIDMC/TheHistoryofBIDMC/HowitAllBegan.aspx

They've always treated anyone in need, as did Deaconess Hospital, founded as a Methodist hospital. The two hospitals merged in the 1990's.

hamsterjill

(15,214 posts)
37. I really wish his family would all just stop talking.
Wed Apr 24, 2013, 12:43 PM
Apr 2013

It's up to the mosque as to what it will do and won't do. Its rules need to be respected.

There's a part of me that believes that funerals are for the living, not the dead, so I can understand that the denial by the mosque may be a source of additional grief for the family, but good grief!

To me, it would seem like NOW (if not before...like when all of this began!) would be the time for the family to stop giving interviews, deal with their personal loss privately, and quit advertising what their plans are.

This morning, I heard an interview with the former husband of one of the sisters, who admitted that he'd not seen either of the two bombers since 2010. Who is next? A long lost cousin?

elleng

(130,126 posts)
49. ***NOT TRUE, said member of Boston Muslim community,
Wed Apr 24, 2013, 01:36 PM
Apr 2013

on MSNBC/Andrea Mitchell, at least not true @ Boston mosque Tamerlan attended. They are not aware of any oveture by the family.

muxin

(98 posts)
53. I believe the reason is to protect Islamic Society of Boston
Wed Apr 24, 2013, 01:49 PM
Apr 2013

and not because Tsarnaev is considered as a bad muslim or not seen as a muslim, I believe the mosque leaders just don't want to have anything to do with the body to protect the Islamic society from any prejudice. As far as I concern, Tsarnaev is still a muslim even though he's not a good one, as long as he believes in 5 pillars of Islam then he's still a muslim and every muslim, even the most evil criminal deserves a proper burial by the muslim society.

Because in Islam, burying the dead is an obligation that's called "Fardhu Kifayah", meaning it's the responsibility of the whole society that can be carried by a number of people in the society. If no one in the society is willing to carry that responsibility then the whole society is considered committing a sin. However, in this "special" condition it's understandable because the goal is for greater good of everybody else, the innocent people in the society itself.

colorado_ufo

(5,715 posts)
58. He needs to be buried, period, in whatever cemetery will take his body.
Wed Apr 24, 2013, 02:28 PM
Apr 2013

His family can pray for the forgiveness of his soul, without official religious intervention.

We need to remember that burials are more for the remaining living than for the dead. His family was not responsible for this young man's terrible decisions, and they need some solace and closure. He has punished them enough by tarnishing the family name forever.

Until this happened, there is no doubt that his family would never have believed it could happen to them. Those here on DU that wish to inflict more pain on them do not seem to realize that this could happen in their families, as well. How many families are associated with drunk drivers who caused horrible fatalities? It could happen to any of us. Let's show some compassion for the innocent members of his family. God can handle the matter of the bombers' ultimate fate.

LostOne4Ever

(9,267 posts)
78. This story sounds wrong
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 06:04 AM
Apr 2013

I just got through reading the Prayers for Boston Page, and now coming to this thread the difference in sentiment seems shocking.

In the other thread people were talking about praying for the younger brother, and here I am hearing about this mosque turning away this family and everyone is calling his family scum . I get that he committed the worst type of deeds, but he was still a Muslim wasn't he? Didn't he do this because of his beliefs?

I can't help but think the mosque is more interested in protecting themselves from scorn and protecting their own PR than they are in doing right by his family. As if they want to say he wasn't REALLY a Muslim, No TRUE Muslim would do this. Its like they are abandoning their duty to the family.

But I know almost nothing about Islam, so im not sure if these are fair sentiments. Does anyone know what the Qur'an say on this? Does it specifically call for excommunication (is that the right word?) for murder? What about this "Fardhu Kifayah" mentioned in post 53? Is there an exception actually listed in the book?

Regardless, I feel funerals are more for the family. So, in lieu of evidence to the contrary, I'm inclined to assume they had nothing to do with his actions (or at least his uncle's side of the family). I can't help but think they should have the chance to say good-bye. Even if its in a private ceremony in an unmarked plot.

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