Police: Boston Bombing Suspects Didn’t Have Gun Permits

[kpete]

Source: Talking Points Memo

Police: Boston Bombing Suspects Didn’t Have Gun Permits

CAMBRIDGE, Mass. (AP) — A Massachusetts police official say the brothers suspected of bombing the Boston Marathon before having shootouts with authorities didn’t have gun permits.

Cambridge Police Commissioner Robert Haas tells The Associated Press in an interview Sunday that neither Tamerlan Tsarnaev (tsahr-NEYE’-ehv) nor his brother Dzhokhar had permission to carry firearms.

He says it’s unclear whether either ever applied and the applications aren’t considered public records.

But he says the 19-year-old Dzhokhar (joh-KHAR’) would have been denied a permit because of his age. Only people 21 or older are allowed gun licenses in Massachusetts.

Read more: http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/police-boston-bombing-suspects-didnt-have-gun-permits.php

[ErikJ]

1. See, if terrorists can get them w/o permits why even have ANY gun laws?

[humbled_opinion]

2. This is just more fodder

for the Rightwing gun nuts talking points....You know the one that says increased gun control laws only hurt legal gun owners since criminals are going to use guns regardless of any law....

At least I understand that the only thing that will stop gun violence in America is an end to guns in the hands of cvilians.... Trying to make that a reality is impossible with the NRA gun lobby... So more people will die.... Maybe one day the American people will wake up.... maybe not...

[Socal31]

3. Parody post?

"the only thing that will stop gun violence in America is an end to guns in the hands of cvilians.... Trying to make that a reality is impossible with the NRA gun lobby..."


Yea, and the Bill of Rights. And the courts. And most Democrats.

Hint: Being for smart new gun legislation does not = wanting to re-write the 2nd amendment. Nobody is calling for that, except a very fringe group of people.

The NRA got in the way of a very sensible gun bill passing the Senate. But it would have never had a chance in the House.

I see a common theme among some posts...lumping all legal gun owners in with Ted Nugent and paranoid NRA preppers. I think people see right through it.

[HooptieWagon]

5. I didn't read the proposed bill...

...but from what little I've heard it wasn't unreasonable. I suspect it was some of the more extreme rhetoric from the gun-banners that gave Senate cold feet. Tightening up background checks and closing gun-show loophole is even supported by a majority of gun owners.

[humbled_opinion]

56. Maybe you misunderstood my point...

The politics of guns makes it so that you cannot even get some minor common sense legislation accomplished, in fact I work with many teabag type repubs and they said to me ..."just like Obamacare is meant to bring about the public option and end health insurance as we know it, this background check legislation will be used to advance the leftwing position that guns should be removed from society......

Now after they said it, I understood their logic, and the truth is if you don't want a massacre like Newtown to happen again you have to remove the weapons that were used in that massacre from society, and any other nonsense is just chipping around the edges of the issue....

[valerief]

4. Gun show, anyone?

[Spitfire of ATJ]

6. Naw, they're criminals...

Don't you know that once you become a criminal you get to join the "criminal club" and that entitles you to all the guns you want?



Even a reverberating carbonizer with mutate capacity.

[VWolf]

7. Noisy cricket - I feel like I'm gonna break this thing

[hack89]

11. In Massachusetts all private sales are registered with the state with a form FA10

Q: Should a special form be used when selling guns through a private sale?

A: The state form required for private sales is an FA10 Form. The FA10 replaced what was known as the "Blue Card" previously used for private sales. This is essentially the same form used by dealers except that instructions are included with each private sale form. This form can be obtained from any police department. The seller must fill out the form and forward it to the Firearms Record Bureau (FRB) within seven days of the transaction.

http://www.mass.gov/eopss/firearms-reg-and-laws/frb/frequently-asked-questions.html

[valerief]

22. I drive to New Hampshire every day. nt

[hack89]

23. And if you were to buy a gun you would be breaking the law.

unless it went through a licensed gun dealer.

Any gun sale, private or not, that crosses a state line requires a background check through a licensed gun dealer.

[apnu]

39. So?

How many people will just ignore that? How about criminal gun runners and black market folks? So long as there's one place where guns can be had w/out registration or checks, then the whole system is porous and bad guys will get guns.

[hack89]

41. Which is why we need universal background checks. nt

[apnu]

42. Straight up. (nt)

[gejohnston]

25. not in MA

under their state law. Most gun show sellers are FFLs, so going to NH would be a refused sale, because of interstate sales are banned without going to an MA FFL.

[valerief]

57. It a short drive from MA to neighboring states. Sheesh. nt

[gejohnston]

58. to where?

not a gun store for the following reasons:
one is under aged
one has a DV conviction, would fail NICS
most important reason is it would violate the 1968 Gun Control Act.
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicensed-persons.html
The license referred to is either a federal dealers license or type 3 collectors license.
It would be a federal felony for me to buy a gun in Utah, since I am not a resident of that state. If Rick Perry were to have a summer home next to me, it would still a felony to sell one to him, because he is a resident of a different state.
From a newspaper ad in NH? Perhaps, but it would still violate the GCA. The Son of Sam killer got his revolver from a guy in Texas, who got five years for interstate sale without an FFL.

[valerief]

59. gun shows everywhere!

[gejohnston]

60. would still be a federal crime

most gun show vendors are FFLs. Out of the ones I have been to, the only stuff individual collectors had would be stuff they couldn't afford or find ammo for. Were there any gun shows advertised in near by states?

[AtheistCrusader]

30. Canard.

United States Department of Justice:

Off the street 39.2%
Friends or family 39.6%
Gun show 0.7%
Flea market 1.0%
Pawnshop 3.8%
Retail store 8.3%

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/fuo.pdf

[baldguy]

8. Charge the "responsible gun owners" that gave them the guns as accessories to their crimes.

[Flatulo]

9. There you go. Every gun starts out as legal, but at some point may be illegally transferred to a

prohibited party.

Throw the book at whoever procures the guns for persons who go on to perpetrate a crime with them. Hell, we make bars and clubs accessories for DUI violations - this seems perfectly analogous.

[apnu]

40. I agree.

We're so stupid about guns in America. Its ok to regulate the shit out of everything else but guns?

Boggles the mind.

[Sancho]

10. Exactly...but that's why we need gun registration plus licensing for all gun possessors...

then whoever sold terrorists a gun would be an "enemy combatant" too and be in jail for life. That would make the gun sellers think before they took the cash and handed out guns like peanuts. And any person buying a gun or ammo would show a license obtained by training, background check, and insurance. No license, no sale! The sale would be recorded along with the buyer's license information. The gun serial number and ammunition, etc. would be traceable.

I'm a gun owner, and I don't have any problem with a license for everyone who has possession or use of a gun (just like a driver's license). All guns and gun sales should be recorded and subject to a background check, etc.

If that were law, it would soon be difficult to get guns without your criminals and mentally ill showing up much more often. Yes, it would take a while, but just like a DUI, if you possessed a gun without a license or possessed an unregistered gun - you should be hauled in on the spot and the gun confiscated.

It wouldn't take long to start catching some of these nuts - not all of them - but some of them would be unable to kill cops and shoot up neighborhoods.

[hack89]

12. Massachusetts has licensing in addition to a database of every gun sale or transfer

Q. I am a resident of Massachusetts. How do I obtain a firearms license?

A. A license to carry (LTC) issued pursuant to G.L. c. 140, §131 or a firearms identification card (FID) issued pursuant to G.L. c. 140, §129B may be obtained from the police department where you reside or have a place of business (your licensing authority). Applications for a LTC or FID are available under "Firearms Forms and Applications".

A LTC Class A entitles the holder to possess a large capacity firearm (pistol or revolver), rifle or shotgun. (See G.L. c. 140, §121 for the definition of large capacity). A LTC Class B entitles the holder to possess a non-large capacity firearm or large capacity rifle or shotgun. A FID entitles the holder to possess non-large capacity rifles and shotguns.

There is a $100 application fee for a LTC or FID. As part of the application process, an applicant must submit fingerprints for a comprehensive background check and, if a new applicant, provide proof of completion of a basic firearm safety course pursuant to G.L. c. 140, §131P.

http://www.mass.gov/eopss/firearms-reg-and-laws/frb/frequently-asked-questions.html

The Firearms Record Bureau (FRB) maintains a database of licenses issued and records of firearms sales by gun dealers, as well as private transfers of weapons. The FRB is a valuable resource for the public and law enforcement agencies to answer questions regarding the Commonwealth's gun laws.

http://www.mass.gov/eopss/firearms-reg-and-laws/frb/

[baldguy]

13. Except for all the tranfers done outside of the state.

Which is why we need national licensing & registration.

We've tried it your way. Your way has failed.

[hack89]

14. Go to talk to the ACLU about it

they oppose registration on privacy grounds. I agree with them.

[hack89]

15. Neither could legally buy a gun out of state.

so they still would have had to illegally purchase their guns. With 300 million unregistered guns in America, it would not have been difficult.

[baldguy]

16. How many times have DU's gun worshipers told us that private sales are legal?

And the govt should have no reason or the ability to track them? How many times have investigators proven that people prohibited from owning guns can easily purchase them legally in states with lax gun laws?

[hack89]

17. How many times have you been told that private sales are an intrastate issue?

that any sale, private or otherwise, that crosses a state line is illegal unless it goes through a licensed gun dealer?

In no state is it legal for someone from another state to legally purchase a gun without it going through a licensed gun dealer.

Perhaps it is time to learn and understand the law as it presently stands?

[baldguy]

18. Which is why we need national licensing & registration.

Perhaps it is time to understand that the present laws - crafted by & for the gun lobby - have failed & it's long past time to change them so they actually work to reduce gun violence.

[hack89]

20. Give it a shot - see what happens. nt

[baldguy]

28. Get out of the way & we'll do it.

[hack89]

29. I am not standing in your way

I live in a state with some of the strongest gun control laws in America. All of my representatives are pro-gun control. I am not a member of the NRA nor do I donate any time or money to any pro-gun organization.

[AtheistCrusader]

31. And you have been told, repeatedly, what the path to accomplish that looks like.

Never see you do anything about it.

I'm as pro-gun as the next 'gungeoneer', but licensing and registration is workable, and possible. Half baked efforts at the state level keep harming that cause. (I'm looking at you California)

[friendly_iconoclast]

48. Practical politics takes a lot of hard work, while carping on Internet forums is easy.

Besides that, if you don't actually do anything in the real world you don't have to worry
about the prospect of finding out that your opponents are better at retail politics than you are...

[Sancho]

37. Yep!! Needs to be universal and enforced in every state...

[warrant46]

50. Lock up these guys --Ya Right--

Don't waste your time or $$$$

[hedgehog]

43. I'd like to see the ATF track down those guns and prosecute the source!

[olddad56]

19. The suspects didn't have bomb permits either.

I'm just saying.

[Nine]

35. They built their bombs. They didn't have to build their guns. (nt)

[AtheistCrusader]

49. Easy enough to do if you have access to any Middle School metal shop.

[Nine]

52. What does that have to do with anything?

You're not saying guns can be built in a middle school metal shop, are you?

[AtheistCrusader]

53. Sure. They can be.

Bing/Google for 'Khyber Pass firearms'. People make them with little more than a hand lathe and hand files out of railroad rails in some cases.

Depends on the dedication of the person trying to acquire one.
With any high-school or hobbyist CNC machine, you can make an advanced firearm like an AR-15 without much effort at all.

[Nine]

54. So gun control is pointless because people can just make guns at home? (nt)

[AtheistCrusader]

55. No. Not pointless.

Lots of criminal mis-uses of firearms are committed by people who wouldn't go to that effort at all.

[gejohnston]

61. At the risk of showing my age, but before Nixon's war on drugs,

the average street gang used knives, tire chains, and home made zip guns. Why not real guns since all they needed was a Sear catalog and a money order? I have two theories
Before the WOD, they couldn't afford them or
the media image was "bad ass" to have a switch blade, but not "bad ass" to have a gun. Squares and hicks had guns.

Just a theory.

[One_Life_To_Give]

21. LTC only covers Hangun Carry

LTC is 21, FID is 18. So Dzokhar might have been licensed to purchase long arms and ammunition.


http://www.mass.gov/dfwele/dfw/education/hed/hed_gun_laws.htm

[gejohnston]

26. if he did

Piers Morgan would be ranting about it already.

[gejohnston]

24. this is suprising because?

the older one would also be denied a permit because he has a DV conviction. That made his possession of a firearm a federal crime. Since their guns were probably stolen at one time, possessing a stolen firearm is a federal crime. Buying a gun from the next state or online, without being brokered by a MA FFL, would also be a federal crime.

One of Holmes' victims survived being in the crossfire of a shootout between two drug dealers in Toronto that killed two innocents and wounded several more. Guess what, their pistols were not registered with the RCMP, nor did they have PALs, nor did they file an transport path with the local firearms officer. Oh yeah, they didn't have ten or less round magazines either.

[AtheistCrusader]

32. Yep, Lautenberg Amendment. Domestic violence is a permanent disqualifier.

Even a misdemeanor DV charge is treated like a felony, FOR LIFE.

It's a pretty awesome piece of public safety legislation actually.

[alcibiades_mystery]

27. They got their guns on the thriving legal-to-illicit pipeline that the gun dealers enjoy and promote

And profit from hugely. How much of gun dealers' income is derived from shunting guns on to the illicit market? 5%? 10%? 25% 40%? Who can tell? ATF isn't allowed inventory control, and national databases raise, ahem, "privacy concerns."

I'm sure Officer Sean Collier would have liked to keep the inside of his skull private from a bullet, but the gun manufacturers, the gun dealers, and their imbecile, fanatical flunkies won't allow it - the first two groups because they know damn well they get rich off of it, the last group because they're fucking dupes.

[AtheistCrusader]

33. The BATFE does indeed have access to inventory and records.

See the gun show here in Tacoma that supplied the rifle used by the 'DC Sniper'.
Store that provided the mags to Cho at VT is gone as well.

BATFE needs more funding, more officers, and a confirmed Director. That's not 'isn't allowed', that's 'can't be everywhere at once at current funding levels'.

Hell, it's a jobs opportunity, lots of police departments nationwide have downsized, so there's lots of qualified candidates. Add another excise tax to guns and ammo to fund it if you like, like the 11% tax for habitat restoration for all long gun/ammo sales.

[gejohnston]

36. actually, they don't

I'm guessing you are not very familiar with the Federal Firearms Act of 1938 or Gun Control Act of 1968. There are inventory control procedures that must be followed by the dealers, including a NICS control number written on the 4473. Poor inventory control can lead to losing your license and up to ten years in federal prison. Yes, the ATF does inspect those records.
That said, the vast majority of gun dealers are not involved in any such "side business". If you suspect or know of any, please call the ATF hotline.

[Sunlei]

34. remember that junkie used gun store w/ hundreds of guns in boxes the feds shut down?

was that last month? The one who 'said', didn't even know how many guns he had or that his employee was taking some and selling on the side. There are probably plenty of places to buy a used stolen gun 'under the table.'

[Yo_Mama]

38. Well, we cannot expect mad bombers to be concerned with legalities

It isn't legal to build bombs either, much less set them off in crowds.

Is anyone surprised by this? When have criminals ever cared about legal gun ownership?

[hedgehog]

44. The point is that we have lost control over who can get a gun. Those guns were owned legally,

until they weren't!

[Yo_Mama]

45. As long as you have a big criminal class

You will have no control over who has a gun, regardless of the laws.

I think addressing the drug laws would probably do more to control guns than any laws we could pass. There is so much money involved in drug dealing and importation that guns are going to proliferate.

As an argument for taking away guns from legal owners, I think this fails.

[hedgehog]

46. Perhaps, as long as we have no control over guns, we will have a big criminal class!

[Yo_Mama]

47. Prohibition spawned the same sort of events

It's hard to argue with history. There was time when cocaine and marijuana were legal in this country.