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TexasTowelie

(111,314 posts)
Sat Apr 20, 2013, 04:52 AM Apr 2013

Last year, West plant kept 270 tons of potentially explosive fertilizer

Source: Dallas Morning News

WEST, TEXAS — The fertilizer plant that exploded Wednesday had at least 540,000 pounds of potentially dangerous ammonium nitrate in a storage building, a 2012 company filing with the state health department shows.

That’s more than 100 times the weight of the ammonium nitrate and fuel oil mix that Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh used to destroy the Murrah Federal Building 18 years ago Friday.

The size of the explosive fertilizer stockpile on the property of West Fertilizer Co. and Adair Grain became clear Friday as an army of federal, state and local investigators picked through acres of shredded metal and the debris from blasted homes and schools close to the site.

The number of deaths rose to 14 with the discovery of two more bodies Friday. More than 200 people were injured.

Read more: http://www.dallasnews.com/news/west-explosion/headlines/20130419-last-year-west-plant-kept-270-tons-of-potentially-explosive-fertilizer.ece

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Last year, West plant kept 270 tons of potentially explosive fertilizer (Original Post) TexasTowelie Apr 2013 OP
Any ideas on the cause of ignition? /nt Ash_F Apr 2013 #1
They do not know at this time. TexasTowelie Apr 2013 #6
Well, that's ridiculous not to want to release info... To make a bomb is already on glowing Apr 2013 #9
Take a look at the Texas City Disaster. Jerry442 Apr 2013 #10
And no one went to prison for that. nt valerief Apr 2013 #20
I would suspect that anyone that could have gone to prison for that disaster kentauros Apr 2013 #34
Burning wood pallets? PADemD Apr 2013 #29
Is that a lots in terms of its appropriate use dipsydoodle Apr 2013 #2
Found this, if they don't meet storage requirements, 10k lbs is the limit: joshcryer Apr 2013 #5
Oh regulations smegulations.... davidpdx Apr 2013 #7
Ya. This is texas.We don't need no stinken regulations WRH2 Apr 2013 #16
Boom! People collateral? Meh. But gimme our MONEY!!!! valerief Apr 2013 #21
The article from Thursday morning Ilsa Apr 2013 #26
I wonder whether that fact will affect West's ability to collect on JDPriestly Apr 2013 #3
Well said. I agree. postulater Apr 2013 #4
I hope whether the insurance company is suppose to cover it or not, they do the right thing davidpdx Apr 2013 #11
I doubt that they had enough liability coverage based upon the damage caused. TexasTowelie Apr 2013 #13
That is just awful davidpdx Apr 2013 #14
There's probably half a million or more in Ilsa Apr 2013 #27
If you google the corp & other corps he owns they make 50mil ++ a year. Sunlei Apr 2013 #15
Damn. My guess is that 270 tons could have Ilsa Apr 2013 #8
Nope, never again. TexasTowelie Apr 2013 #12
Rick Perry has blood on his hands. Crowman1979 Apr 2013 #17
Again and again and again. efhmc Apr 2013 #18
Not him. He's had them Scotchguarded. He's a hollow man with no compassion. nt valerief Apr 2013 #22
i guess perry will postpone his job poaching trip to illinois madrchsod Apr 2013 #19
Ammonium Nitrate will not just spontainiously explode. I use it almost every day in my dye shop. marble falls Apr 2013 #23
And yet something ignited it. Ilsa Apr 2013 #28
If there was an explosion of something else, maybe. Usually AN is mixed with something like fuel ... marble falls Apr 2013 #31
IT WILL WHEN IT'S HIT WITH A MISSILE!!!!!!!111!! octothorpe Apr 2013 #30
Agicultural businesses are subject to explosions, grain elevators and silos will blow up if dust... marble falls Apr 2013 #32
Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2013 #24
This fertilizer is explosive and dangerous. Period. gristy Apr 2013 #25
see comment 31 marble falls Apr 2013 #33

TexasTowelie

(111,314 posts)
6. They do not know at this time.
Sat Apr 20, 2013, 06:02 AM
Apr 2013

Warning, I do not normally engage in conspiracy theories and I'm reporting what I read in the link. I do have 30 hours of chemistry from college so I'll try to relay the essentials below.

I read the article and it indicates that it is being treated as a crime scene because they do not know how the ammonium nitrate (fertilizer) was secured. Therefore, it is possible that someone deliberately set a fire for reasons such as retaliation, murder or terrorism. None of the nine employees were at the plant that evening although one returned in the capacity of a volunteer fire fighter.

They still haven't determined whether it was the anhydrous ammonia (concentrated ammonia) or the ammonium nitrate (fertilizer) exploded. I know that mixing water with anhydrous ammonia creates an exothermic reaction, but never thought of it being so dangerous because of the small quantities that I used in the lab. However, it is possible that the firefighters weren't aware and with the quantities of both liquids anything is possible. The ammonium nitrate seems a more likely cause in my opinion.

The Office of the Texas State Chemist at Texas A&M University asked the Texas attorney general’s office to rule on whether it must release fertilizer inventories to The Dallas Morning News in light of the West explosion. The chemist’s office said such information might help those wishing to build a bomb.

The plant opened in 1962 and was a mile north of town. The nursing home opened in 1966 and apparently housing developments and the apartment occurred around the same time frame.

 

glowing

(12,233 posts)
9. Well, that's ridiculous not to want to release info... To make a bomb is already on
Sat Apr 20, 2013, 07:40 AM
Apr 2013

the internet. Its more likely they don't want to give out a lot of info... God forbid the people of West have a suitable complaint or the owner face jail time.

kentauros

(29,414 posts)
34. I would suspect that anyone that could have gone to prison for that disaster
Sat Apr 20, 2013, 10:40 PM
Apr 2013

was pretty much vaporized by that blast. Consider, too, that 600 people died instantly. Most of those were the crowds that had gathered to watch the fire.

PADemD

(4,482 posts)
29. Burning wood pallets?
Sat Apr 20, 2013, 11:54 AM
Apr 2013

Locals also said the plant had been a nuisance recently by burning wood pallets outside the facility. In February, the West Intermediate School, adjacent to the plant, was temporarily evacuated during a burn outside the facility.

“They’ve been starting fires over there, trying to burn [the wood pallets] up to dispose of them,” longtime resident Darryl Garrick told StateImpact Texas. Garrick says the explosion knocked him four feet in the air of his couch. He lives about a mile away from the plant.

http://stateimpact.npr.org/texas/2013/04/19/west-texas-up-to-15-fatalities-estimated-fire-under-control/

joshcryer

(62,265 posts)
5. Found this, if they don't meet storage requirements, 10k lbs is the limit:
Sat Apr 20, 2013, 05:58 AM
Apr 2013
http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=INTERPRETATIONS&p_id=20712

That's OSHA answering a question about storage requirements.

29 CFR 1910.119 says you can only store 10k lbs of stuff: http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=86cd6288b1f55f724c1615e9165d1957&rgn=div8&view=text&node=29:5.1.1.1.8.8.33.13&idno=29

But if you read the original document the OSHA guy says that you're exempt if you follow the guidelines in 29 CFR 1910.111: http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=STANDARDS&p_id=9757

I have my doubts that this storage facility was even remotely following those guidelines. Especially since their last inspection was 1985: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/18/texas-fertilizer-plant-ha_n_3113117.html

davidpdx

(22,000 posts)
7. Oh regulations smegulations....
Sat Apr 20, 2013, 07:04 AM
Apr 2013

What the hell do they matter...

If they had gotten caught it probably would have been a $1,000 fine and a slap on the wrist. That's how bad enforcement is.

Ilsa

(61,675 posts)
26. The article from Thursday morning
Sat Apr 20, 2013, 11:09 AM
Apr 2013

Said they had 54,000 lbs on site. I wonder if they deliberately said one-tenth of what was on hand, or if they had cleared out the other 90% since last year's report of 540,000.

Either way, it is far too much to have.

The city and the company should have worked together on keeping the plant a minimum distance from residences and schools. They should have established a perimeter fence and "no building" zone. They also should have established a warning system, alarms, reverse callback, etc. It's explosive stuff. It was bound to happen eventually given the routine negligence found by inspectors.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
3. I wonder whether that fact will affect West's ability to collect on
Sat Apr 20, 2013, 05:37 AM
Apr 2013

insurance for the damages it suffers, whether its insurance will at least compensate the many people who have lost loved ones and everything they own in this explosion and whether West will try to deduct its losses from its taxes.

I know it is crass to think about so much loss of human life and so many serious injuries in terms of money, but I would like to see West rather than the taxpayers pay for the losses that victims of the explosion have suffered -- including medical care and physical injuries.

And I would not like to see a company such as West enrich itself from a situation like this unless it too is a victim, say of sabotage.

Storing that much of a substance that is extremely explosive should require adequate safety measures.

Obama has already offered help from the federal government. West should be required to pay first. Taxpayers should only pay what West absolutely cannot cover. West should have had adequate insurance for this. It is a man-made disaster, not a natural disaster. Sandy Hook, tornadoes and earthquakes are natural disasters. This was not.

I don't want to see the victims left without help. I just want to see West exhaust all of its resources before the government money is used.

davidpdx

(22,000 posts)
11. I hope whether the insurance company is suppose to cover it or not, they do the right thing
Sat Apr 20, 2013, 07:43 AM
Apr 2013

and take care of everyone (including the employees) and their damages. In terms of the company, screw'em. Let them file for bankruptcy. It was the capitalist regulation system that let them get away with gross violations, make file Chapter 7 bankruptcy.

TexasTowelie

(111,314 posts)
13. I doubt that they had enough liability coverage based upon the damage caused.
Sat Apr 20, 2013, 08:06 AM
Apr 2013

The school building alone is probably $10 million in property damage. Add in similar amounts for the nursing home and apartment complex. Probably about the same for the residence damage and they are at $40 million. That hasn't even touched the injuries or fatalities.

davidpdx

(22,000 posts)
14. That is just awful
Sat Apr 20, 2013, 08:17 AM
Apr 2013

Those people need to be taken care of. What sickens me most is the nursing home.

You are probably right though, they'd have to have liability coverage in the range of $100-200 million.

Ilsa

(61,675 posts)
27. There's probably half a million or more in
Sat Apr 20, 2013, 11:12 AM
Apr 2013

Medical supplies and equipment at that nursing facility before you add in the building and typical contents.

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
15. If you google the corp & other corps he owns they make 50mil ++ a year.
Sat Apr 20, 2013, 08:28 AM
Apr 2013

He can afford to pay for everything.

Ilsa

(61,675 posts)
8. Damn. My guess is that 270 tons could have
Sat Apr 20, 2013, 07:27 AM
Apr 2013

Blown away a huge chunk of Interstate-35 nearby. That would certainly affect Rick Perry's business plans.

Did no one there think anything about the danger of storing so much?

TxTow, maybe your true gift is in Chemistry field?

TexasTowelie

(111,314 posts)
12. Nope, never again.
Sat Apr 20, 2013, 07:52 AM
Apr 2013

I was a chemistry lab assistant for three years in college and that was enough. I didn't have steady hands and had a few lab experiences that took me away from that field.

1) Brushing the bottom of my corduroy pants against a bottle of hydrobromic acid in the stockroom.
2) Leaning against the vent hood mixing some reagents, some hydrochloric acid didn't get cleaned up and it got on my pants a couple of inches shy of the most vital parts of TexasTowelie. Everyone laughed out loud when I had to run across the room to the sink so I could grab one hose to spray so that the other hose wouldn't get burnt.
3) A couple of pyromaniacs in my labs that turned the Bunsen burners on about 15 feet high.

madrchsod

(58,162 posts)
19. i guess perry will postpone his job poaching trip to illinois
Sat Apr 20, 2013, 09:10 AM
Apr 2013

ya all come on down to texas where you don`t have to worry about regulations to hurt your bottom line!

Ilsa

(61,675 posts)
28. And yet something ignited it.
Sat Apr 20, 2013, 11:24 AM
Apr 2013

I wonder if it was a combination of heat, water vapor, or if the fire reached it, or something else?

marble falls

(56,359 posts)
31. If there was an explosion of something else, maybe. Usually AN is mixed with something like fuel ...
Sat Apr 20, 2013, 09:56 PM
Apr 2013

oil and a blasting cap is needed to generate the bang. If you put a match to it, it won't burn. AN is pretty darn stable in when its by itself. Now natural gas is used in making fertilizer......

octothorpe

(962 posts)
30. IT WILL WHEN IT'S HIT WITH A MISSILE!!!!!!!111!!
Sat Apr 20, 2013, 05:28 PM
Apr 2013

heh, the conspiracy nuts jumped right on that saying that someone wanted to blow it up with a missile, and the video shows one coming in from the left corner. Which like so totally makes sense.... Someone who had access to cruise missiles wanted to blow up a fertilizer storage plant in some unknown little texas town.

marble falls

(56,359 posts)
32. Agicultural businesses are subject to explosions, grain elevators and silos will blow up if dust...
Sat Apr 20, 2013, 10:04 PM
Apr 2013

isn't controlled, anhydrous tanks will blow if they're warmed too quick or someone hits a valve. An ammonia plant in South Sioux City blew up killing several guys and we smelled it across the river in Nebraska 35 miles away and heard the blast, too. Dint need no missiles. Agriculture is a dangerous industry/

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