Man no longer allowed to visit husband at KC hospital
Source: Fox 4 Kansas City(not Fox news)
LEES SUMMIT, Mo. A Lees Summit man is fighting a restraining order that he says was issued against him after he says he was arrested for refusing to leave the bedside of his sick partner.
Roger Gorley went to visit his partner, Allen at Research Medical Center, 2316 E. Meyer Blvd., Tuesday afternoon.
He says when he got there, a member of Allens family asked him to leave.
When Gorley refused, he says hospital security forcibly removed him from the property and put him in handcuffs.
I was not recognized as being the husband, I wasnt recognized as being the partner, Gorley said.
While not legally recognized as a couple in Missouri, Gorley says he and his partner Allen have been in a civil union for nearly five years, and make medical decisions for each other.
He says the nurse refused to verify they also share joint Power of Attorney.
She didnt even bother to go look it up to check into it, Gorley said. Hes been at the psychiatric unit part several times.
Read more: http://fox4kc.com/2013/04/10/man-no-longer-allowed-to-visit-husband-at-kc-area-hospital/
Warpy
(110,913 posts)who has sent the family home to get some rest and is willing to sneak him in during the wee hours like I used to do, risking job and license but o bla di.
This is why marriage is essential, it promotes an unrelated life partner to first degree relative status, ahead of someone's blood relatives.
Allen's family is behaving shabbily.
Yo_Mama
(8,303 posts)I think the law supports him, not the family.
Amimnoch
(4,558 posts)for our 3rd year anniversary, my husband and I had our Last wills, POA's, Medical POA's, and living wills done by an attorney friend.
Even with all of that, it's not necessarily protection.
Especially if Roger and his husband aren't residents in the state (i.e. the documentation is from another state.)
But, even if the documentation is from the same state, and they have it all in order, the Hospital can still declare that they need to verify the work, and can hold up his visitation rights until well after his husband's medical treatment period has passed.
Of course, a Hospital could pull the same kind of bullshit even if they were married, and it was legally recognized, however the legal penalties the hospital would/could face for denying a legal spouse from visitation vs. denying someone who just has medical power of attorney/living will documentation is much greater.
Mopar151
(9,965 posts)Shabby is a kind word for what Allen's family is doing. Circling like vultures, lawyering up to cut Roger out of any inheritance.
Mr.Pain
(52 posts)Having someone in the room with you, that you love and cherish is one of the best ways to heal. Allen's family isn't doing him any favors by keeping his other loved ones at bay. Homosocial individuals or not, we love who we love, and we need love and support to get through illness.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)Research Medical Center says it does not discriminate based on sexual orientation or race.
well this mans family or the hospital seem more concerned about outdated 'moral codes' that they do the patients actual needs and the nondiscrimination part-well they just did it seems
Lil Missy
(17,865 posts)azurnoir
(45,850 posts)the article doesn't say though
KM0201
(23 posts)It also says the guy has been in and out of mental hospitals. It's quite possible his parents were already his power of attorney, and he is not actually a power of attorney (simply thinks that he is). I've seen strange things in psych hospitals like this.
Unfortunately, to the state he's nothing more than a "best friend".. so I doubt there is much that can be done with it. It'd be no different than if my parents tried to throw my girlfriend out of the hospital room.
I hate when families fight in hospitals (no matter the circumstances) but usually, there's a lot of underlying issues when the fight occurs, and I would be surprised if it was just because they are gay.
It'll all play out in court most likely, but the damage will be done.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)I'm taking the guy's word for it and the fact remains had this been a hetro couple, nothing of this sort would have happened
Yes it would have. It's way more common with hetero couples than you might think.. it just doesn't make the news when it's a hetero couple. It's easy to get caught up in the emotion of this, but if you can look at it objectively, it's a lot easier to understand. You can take his word for it, but we're only hearing one side of the story. I've dealt with this sort of thing many, many times when parents did not like a long term girlfriend/boyfriend. That doesn't make it right... but it is what it is.
As I said, I suspect there is a much bigger underlying issue than just the fact they are a gay couple... In the past, I've almost always found it was financial.
Niceguy1
(2,467 posts)Visitors were related.
I think that there is more to this story. It very well could have been disuptive, as people like that exist in every walk of life.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)it wouldn't take anything else but that no matter how politely or quietly he refused, just that he refused would have been reason enough to call security, at least it was for that nurse
Niceguy1
(2,467 posts)That for a fact. He could have been loud and obnoxious.
We aren't getting the whole story so there is no way to really know what happened.
Response to Niceguy1 (Reply #28)
Niceguy1 This message was self-deleted by its author.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)well that's nice and all but ..........
Niceguy1
(2,467 posts)It's the only way to have an intelligent conversation lol.
MADem
(135,425 posts)I should think the legal spouse is "family."
Here's a question for them--if a husband and wife, married in Cuba, were in the same situation, would one spouse be denied access because we don't have diplomatic relations with Cuba?
I think not.
the whole situation stinks of bigotry
blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts).
6000eliot
(5,643 posts)How fucking sad for all of us.
pacalo
(24,721 posts)The family should have been the ones having to leave.
SwissTony
(2,560 posts)I would want my partner there before the rest of my family.
TeamPooka
(24,156 posts)then the hospital will be writing a large check to settle the oncoming lawsuit.
Their hospital motto must be - Do harm
#fail
quakerboy
(13,901 posts)Marriage should be legal and recognized in all states. But its not. And I can see where that would put a hospital in a tough spot, if one person with a moral claim, but no legal claim, comes against another with a legal, but immoral claim.
But if they took care of making things legal within the existing system, and he was still denied his rights, Neither the hospital or family should have a legal leg to stand on. Hopefully it will be a costly mistake that will encourage them and others to avoid that mistake in the future.
Yo_Mama
(8,303 posts)Or perceived to be so by hospital staff.
You can be thrown out if you are a spouse/parent if you are "disruptive".
All of this can't have done the patient any good.
Nine
(1,741 posts)Were the police actually involved or just hospital security? Are security officers permitted by law to put people in handcuffs? Are security officers required to fill out reports when they forcibly remove someone from the premises, and who gets to see such a report - the police? The public?
It's possible the man was disruptive, but I'd be pretty disruptive too if someone tried to prevent me from being with my dying husband.
KM0201
(23 posts)Since most of the media doesn't like writing complete and informative stories, I looked a little further.
I went to the Research Medical center's website, and did a search on their "careers" page for "Police" and a job opportunity for Security came up. Among the qualification requirements:
Education: High School or equivalent required. College level courses in police sciences or related fields preferred.
Knowledge/Professional Licensure/Registration/Certifications: Be able to maintain a current drivers license. Obtain and maintain a police commission for armed patrol agent, which includes shooting a qualifying score with a revolver or semi-automatic handgun. Be a citizen of the United sates; Pass a pre-employment drug test. Able to communicate well both orally and in writing. Able to work with people under stressful situations; understand fire safety principles and able to direct others during an emergency.
Experience: A minimum of two years security or equivalent in law enforcement or military preferred. College level course work in police science or related fields preferred.
Since they specifically mention "Police commission for Armed Patrol Agent". My guess is, while they are not actually police officers, they are probably put through signficant training, etc.. and are "deputized" while on duty for the hospital. (Here in Indiana, we call them Special Deputies, but they may be called somethign else there). Again, speaking solely regarding Indiana, they have full arrest powers, are required to write police reports, etc.
Now, their policies may be different, but looking at the job requirements/description, and what the article says happened.. I would suspect they were probably what is called a "Special Deputy" here in Indiana.
melm00se
(4,974 posts)the article is full of "he (Gorley) said". there are no comments from the hospital or the police or the court.
tough to make a judgment call when you are only getting one side of the story.
Quantess
(27,630 posts)my speculation is that the sick man's family has never accepted his gay relationship, much less his gay marriage. The hospital is apparently not very supportive of gay marriage, either.
csziggy
(34,120 posts)http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2013/04/11/1852551/missouri-man-arrested-for-refusing-to-leave-his-partners-hospital-bedside/
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/04/11/missouri-man-arrested-at-hospital-for-refusing-to-leave-gay-partner/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/11/gay-man-arrested-missouri-hospital_n_3060488.html
While the above sources discuss the politics and history of the issue, they seem to get all their information about the case from the Fox4/WDAF article and interview.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)If this had been a heterosexual couple, the family would be the ones thrown out.
That's kinda the entire point of this situation being outrageous.
Sheldon Cooper
(3,724 posts)A married hetero couple would never be subjected to this. I am curious, however. If the couple were hetero but unmarried, and they each had power of attorney for the other, would the family still prevail? I wonder.
Tx4obama
(36,974 posts)Front page: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/
Direct link to article: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/11/gay-man-arrested-missouri-hospital_n_3060488.html
Niceguy1
(2,467 posts)That his partner was in the ER. Which tend to hsve very restrictive visiting policies for a good reason.
Dtill only hearing one side, though.
Sheldon Cooper
(3,724 posts)Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)then life partners should be allowed as well. If anything, it was the less-close family members who should have been barred from the ER.
Niceguy1
(2,467 posts)Are only allowed when practical. There is no right to visit there... even if the patient is dieing. I have taken care of many people whkn have died while their family is in the waiting room as they are often an impediment to emergency medical care.
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)Niceguy1
(2,467 posts)the nurse needed everybody to leave. I have done it on a daily basis and most people dont make a fuss
jeff47
(26,549 posts)It turns out the family went to his house while his husband was away, and had him involuntarily taken to the hospital.
Then the family had the husband thrown out of the hospital.
http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2013/04/12/1857741/what-actually-happened-to-that-same-sex-couple-in-the-missouri-hospital/
Niceguy1
(2,467 posts)Is that he was enraged. An enraged person shouldn't be in the ER. Plus if he truly was in and out of consciousness then the family did the right thing.
Still haven't seen unbiased reporting of this incident.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)The reason that the husband was upset is the hospital was ignoring the patient. Oh, and federal law. Instead, they were helping the bible-thumping family against the wishes of the patient.
If you think the appropriate reaction to that situation is quiet acquiescence, you're an idiot.
Niceguy1
(2,467 posts)There is no right to visitation in the Emergency Room.
And there has been no unbiased reporting in this. A blog post is not a credible source. I like facts not emotions
jeff47
(26,549 posts)Thus they should have thrown out the family.
Again, there is no excuse for the hospital demanding the husband leave. Even though their marriage is not recognized by the state, he's got a ream of paper full of the patient's wishes. "I'm his mom" doesn't overrule that.
As for bias, what, exactly, excuses the hospital demanding the husband leave - before he was 'disruptive'? And even after he was 'disruptive', what's the excuse for not throwing out the family?
Niceguy1
(2,467 posts)And in an ER if you dont have the documents in hand to prove what you claim the staff goes with the legal default. If his power of attorney wasnt available to staff and decisions had tobe made then the family would be the correct choice until proven otherwise
jeff47
(26,549 posts)Since he knew where his husband had been taken, he brought the documents.
Alternatively, the hospital staff could consult the patient's chart, which had the husband listed as power of attorney - the patient had been in this hospital many times before, and the hospital accepted the husband's power-of-attorney in those cases.
So either the hospital needs to be sued into the ground for tossing out the husband, or it needs to be sued into the ground for accepting the husband's signature on all the previous visits.
I realize you are trying very, very, very hard to excuse the hospital personnel, but they screwed up.
Niceguy1
(2,467 posts)article the staff didn't want any visitors in his room... which is common in an ER. Most people leave and return without a fuss but in this case the man chose to refuse and make a scene. Patients cant always have visitors in an ER.
I really doubt he has grounds to sue.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)Which kinda demolishes that argument.
Again, the hospital staff screwed up.
Niceguy1
(2,467 posts)they had to leave the room, too. Bu this person held on to the rail of the bed and refused to leave.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)Once the staff started listening to the patient (and their lawyers).
imamansell
(2 posts)azurnoir
(45,850 posts)when I clicked it I got this message
You don't have permission to access /index.php on this server.
Additionally, a 403 Forbidden error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.
Apache Server at www.weareatheism.com Port 80
the site crashed due to so much traffic. you can read the interview on americablog and buzzfeed
Rhiannon12866
(203,041 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)This still doesn't shed a whole lot of light on the situation in my opinion. I'd like to hear exactly what he was doing and what was being said, and why it was handled this way. It's pretty uncommon for a hospital to go from "Sir, settle down" right to "I'm calling Security/Police to have you removed" without significant warnings, etc.. in the middle. Again, just personal experience on issues such as this.
Like I said, people do strange things when under stress, loved ones are sick, etc. What may have been perceived as a minor outburst on your part, was obviously perceived completely differently by the hospital.
Sorry you all are going through all this.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)The problem is that the husband was thrown out. The "fuss" was because they were throwing him out against the patient's wishes.
If this had been a heterosexual couple, the family would have no right to demand his removal, and if a "fuss" resulted, the family would get thrown out.
The hospital broke federal law, ignored the patient's wishes, and ignored the patients legal documents. There is no possible positive spin for their behavior.
KM0201
(23 posts)to think rationally. Honestly, I can't really blame you.. I'd be irritated to. It's hardly a "head in my ass" statement, it's experience that tells me otherwise.
Like I said, I don't know what happened. I just know beyond doubt there is more to this story than what is on the blog or in the news article. The hospital may well have broke the law, I'm not disputing that. Let me assure you, hetero couples are removed from hospitals in situations like this ALL THE TIME.. it just doesn't make the news. Having dealt with this situation many, many times.. Hospital staff does not go from "Sir calm down" to "We're calling the police to have you removed and taken off the property" without a lot "in between" going on.
That's why I'd like to hear exactly what was said that made the nurse call security, and security make the decision to handcuff and remove him from the property.
Best of luck getting this resolved.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)How 'bout you come up with a few theoretical situations where the hospital's position would be justified?
'Cause all that "in between" you are trying to hide behind arises from the hospital breaking federal law and ignoring the patient's wishes.
Oh, and it's actually worse than originally reported:
http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2013/04/12/1857741/what-actually-happened-to-that-same-sex-couple-in-the-missouri-hospital/
Shrike47
(6,913 posts)Woman was giving birth. Had baby, insisted there should be twins and accused hospital staff and doctor of stealing missing baby. Woman had previous ( and subsequent ) mental health admissions. Husband showed up drunk. Mother began escalating aggressive behavior after father arrived to be her support ( she has history of assaults and told medical staff she had recently done meth ). Hospital asked him to leave, which appeared to help her get herself under control.
Occulus
(20,599 posts)jeff47
(26,549 posts)You know, there were good reasons to invade Europe during WWII. Thus it was a good idea to invade Iraq in 2003.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)(Since some others are reporting problems with your site being overwhelmed)
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)and hopefully this injustice will be resolved please keep us updated
octothorpe
(962 posts)his mental health condition for whatever reason? My first instinct was that the family didn't accept the relationship, but then I was thinking there could be other explanations. Like we've heard of those stories in which the husband basically contributed to the wife's mental issues (I think andrea yates?) The fact that there was no reason like that mentioned in the article, I'm leaning toward my initial inclination being correct.
marshall
(6,661 posts)It sounds like the husband may be barred from visiting his husband for reasons other than being a same sex couple.