President Obama hails Thatcher as "great champion of freedom."
Source: The Guardian
Barack Obama led tributes from the United States to the former British prime minister, Margaret Thatcher, whose death on Friday led to an outpouring of remembrances that went well beyond normal courtesies.
Obama described Thatcher as "one of the great champions of freedom and liberty" and a true friend to the US. Former president George HW Bush and the Republican House speaker John Boehner also paid generous tributes.
Read more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/apr/08/margaret-thatcher-dies-tributes-obama
Are you bloody kidding me, Mr. President??
Myrina
(12,296 posts)awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)Cleita
(75,480 posts)CaliforniaPeggy
(149,534 posts)Put it on with a trowel, why not, Mr. President?
Liberalynn
(7,549 posts)Beacool
(30,247 posts)but saying that she was "great champion of freedom" is a huge stretch.
Gee...........
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)I don't...
BeerIsClear
(15 posts)participate heavily in bringing down the Soviet Union. That would make her pretty strong in the way of championing freedom.
Just sayin'
rwsanders
(2,594 posts)To me that really diminishes the role of all the people who risked thier lives for freedom in those countries.
mac56
(17,565 posts)She and Ronnie were just roosters, taking credit for the sunrise.
Just sayin'
tavalon
(27,985 posts)Never were truer words typed.
Hell, if any nation gets any credit, it should be Afghanistan. Yeah, the same country that destroyed England's empiric aspirations and pulled the USSR into an unwinnable war and is likely to take down a third Empire if we don't buy a clue.
City Lights
(25,171 posts)raccoon
(31,105 posts)Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)It wasn't our business to bring down the Soviet Union anyway. It was just another country, for God's sakes, and we were always being paranoid and silly to act like it was the only place on the planet that mattered.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)stop, you're killing me. Please take it to freeperville
Beacool
(30,247 posts)Thatcher and Reagan may have coaxed it along, but it was Gorbachev and the people of Eastern Europe who were ready for a change. In other words, the Soviet Union would have collapsed without these two neocon's help.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Hugabear
(10,340 posts)Interesting how you crawled out of whatever hole you live under to defend someone as vile and wretched as Margaret Thatcher.
Response to Hugabear (Reply #115)
Post removed
Zoeisright
(8,339 posts)Haven't studied history much, have ya, sparky?
pansypoo53219
(20,959 posts)KoKo
(84,711 posts)Bucky
(53,953 posts)Filthy little buggers in the 47%, thinking they can pay less in taxes that the wealthy and still get the same weight given to their filthy little votes. Ew. After all, it was the Americans who came up with the whole no taxation without representation business. Shouldn't the reverse be true. If you want a vote the equal of a rich man, you'd bloody well better be willing to fork over the levies of a rich man for the privilege, eh what?
markpkessinger
(8,392 posts)Last edited Mon Apr 8, 2013, 10:37 PM - Edit history (1)
"Baroness Thatcher was a great and effective champion of the causes for which she stood." It's perfectly respectful, while remaining utterly neutral on the question of whether the things she stood for were good or bad.
It's rather like a comment I use when I know a person is expecting me to say something positive about something I don't necessarily like or agree with: "It's an excellent example of its kind."
Beacool
(30,247 posts)carolinayellowdog
(3,247 posts)anymore, to quote one of DU's greats of a decade ago
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)SleeplessinSoCal
(9,088 posts)whathehell
(29,037 posts)Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)Obama has nothing to gain by kissing the ass of the most vile, destructive, life-crushing monster in British political history.
And "freedom" was never in danger during Thatcher's era, anyway. There was no chance of a global Soviet takeover, and there never really had been.
Blue Owl
(50,291 posts)valerief
(53,235 posts)whatever they damn well please.
leveymg
(36,418 posts)firenewt
(298 posts)Comrade_McKenzie
(2,526 posts)And make empty apologies when someone's feelings are hurt when you step out of line.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)So what does that make President Obama?
dsc
(52,152 posts)just saying.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)dsc
(52,152 posts)but I had no idea they had nukes on those ships.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #13)
devilgrrl This message was self-deleted by its author.
SunSeeker
(51,523 posts)Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)Nye Bevan was a left-wing Welsh socialist. He HATED Churchill and Churchill's entire imperialist view of life.
If you're going to use Bevan's name, you have an obligation to understand his life and his values and to RESPECT them.
Nye Bevan isn't just a random name...it means something.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)to demonstrate my support for universal healthcare.
And I just like Winston Churchill.
I didn't see that personal dislike between my username and my avatar would present much of a problem.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)attached to posts that mainly seem to bash the Left, rather than attack the Right.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)Earlier today someone accused me of being a "right-wing shitstain". When I pointed out that I supported the ACA (President Obama's signature achievement) the response derided this as "corporate friendly legislation". Then I pointed out that I was in favor of legalizing pot. The response was that "there are plenty of pot smoking republicans". Then I pointed out that I was in favor of marriage equality long before Obama was. And of course I got "but many conservatives support same-sex marriage".
I think all this is symptomatic of a bit of a conundrum for those here who believe that Obama is too much of a centrist. When people like me who support all or most of Obama's positions are derided as "right-wing shitstains", what is really being expressed is anger and frustration at President Obama. A post calling Obama a "right-wing shitstain" would almost certainly be hidden; it's much safer to hurl insults at someone like me who mostly supports Obama. It's quite interesting.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)And I would tell anyone else the same thing.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)And my big complaint with him these days is that, on "national security" issues, he's sometimes to the right of Kissinger. I mean, Obama was ok with our troops killing innocent, unarmed journalists in Iraq(that's one of the things Bradley Manning brought to light, and one of the big reasons that poor. harmless kid is being so viciously persecuted by a supposedly "liberal" administration.)
I don't think anybody on this board should be called a shitstain.
RetroLounge
(37,250 posts)RL
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)Obsessed much?
RetroLounge
(37,250 posts)Deal with it.
RL
treestar
(82,383 posts)HughBeaumont
(24,461 posts). . . no matter how ruthlessly shitty she was to the workers and industries of that state or how much she courted dictators or demented puppets disguised as presidents.
Write this off as "decorum".
Arctic Dave
(13,812 posts)Tell that to the people of Venezuela.
n/t
24601
(3,955 posts)their Head of State. We are use to the same individual being both but that's not the norm worldwide. The British Head of State is Queen Elizabeth II. She does not exercise Chief Executive Powers and her job is primarily ceremonial, including "Commander in Chief" of their Armed Forces.
Under our Constitution, the President is the "'real" Commander in Chief.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)Hissyspit
(45,788 posts)Aquavit
(488 posts)"Good" would have sufficed, when he learned of her passing.
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)alsame
(7,784 posts)Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)I'm not saying I agree with the president's assessment, or that he didn't pile the praise a little too high, but posters in this thread thinking Obama is going to start picking apart Thatcher's legacy (that's our job), or damning her with faint praise before she's even in the ground should take a look at how presidential decorum operates...
alsame
(7,784 posts)condolences diplomatically without saying anything complimentary, if you so choose.
totodeinhere
(13,057 posts)from saying that. He could have merely expressed his condolences to the family and left it at that.
Aquavit
(488 posts)Mr. President, you just need to be quiet.
suffragette
(12,232 posts)LoisB
(7,188 posts)"Freedom and liberty" - how Republican of him.
sakabatou
(42,141 posts)Response to Aquavit (Original post)
devilgrrl This message was self-deleted by its author.
truebrit71
(20,805 posts)...look I know he has to do the whole 'Statesman' thing, but Maggie was a power-hungry b*tch that hurt millions of people...Also, not sure how you square that comment with her support of the dictator Pinochet...he didn't offer much in the way of freedom or liberty...
Mr President, sometimes it's okay not just not say anything at all..
pink-o
(4,056 posts)I'm thinking of fasting for the next week because the piling on of Maggot Thatcher's attributes is gonna make it hard to keep my food down.
alsame
(7,784 posts)an excuse to once again praise his holiness St Ronald of Reagan.
LeftInTX
(25,154 posts)CountAllVotes
(20,867 posts)would not agree if any of them happen to still be alive.
Maggie hated the Irish and she never tried to hide this fact.
Roland99
(53,342 posts)Aquavit
(488 posts)Freedom from having a good job, if you're a union member.
Freedom from a decent lunch, if you're a school child.
Freedom from freedom, if you happen to have been born in Northern Ireland.
Dark n Stormy Knight
(9,760 posts)acquire more wealth and power.
Ghost of Tom Joad
(1,354 posts)TeamPooka
(24,210 posts)in the 1980's enacting laws that gave companies tax breaks to relocate their businesses ultimately decimating domestic manufacturing and leading to the rise of outsourcing that we continue to suffer from today.
So when right wing idiots say "Corporations are people" and "Tax breaks for the rich trickle down" they are repeating the long sewn seeds of bullshit originally spewed by these two morons that they worship even though they fucked up two countries economies for decades.
KoKo
(84,711 posts)so...there we have it. Reagan and Thatcher were "best buddies"....so I guess it follows that he might have a high opinion of Thatcher.
In this case the Repugs didn't make him do it...He chose to say Thatcher was a "A Champion of Freedom" all on his own. Disappointing.
TeamPooka
(24,210 posts)that all politicians admire about each other.
YOHABLO
(7,358 posts)Beacool
(30,247 posts)charlie and algernon
(13,447 posts)No matter how shitty said leader was, the President isn't going to insult an important ally. It's politics. Nothing more.
Aquavit
(488 posts)charlie and algernon
(13,447 posts)If he just says that then people ask "that's it?"
So he gives the required flowery language and everyone moves on with their day.
SunSeeker
(51,523 posts)tarheelsunc
(2,117 posts)DUers would say he was being overly partisan. If he said something negative, DUers would say he's being disrespectful to her and her family. Everything he does is wrong.
DUers attack this man just as much as the Freepers do now. You would never see them putting down one of their own like this.
Aquavit
(488 posts)And that's exactly what the President is doing here. She was flatly *not* a champion for freedom, period. I would much rather he just say "the former PM of the United Kingdom has died, and I give my condolences to her family" than make up some favorable non-truth about her. What she's done with her life had very real, very bad effects on her own people and it's not ok to re-write her history in a more favorable way just because it is seen by a few as the "respectful" thing to do.
Also, not especially appreciating the comparison to Freepers here. The wonderful thing about the people on the left is that we think for ourselves and will rightly call out our own when they are wrong. Freepers just mindlessly bleat whatever they're told to bleat, no matter how obviously untrue or malicious it might be.
tammywammy
(26,582 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)If he danced on her grave, it would be the same thing. How dare he do that to a world leader? It makes us look bad.
no_hypocrisy
(46,039 posts)Arctic Dave
(13,812 posts)He's kissing ass to one of his neo liberal idols.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)Ask any Briton of colour who was harassed under the all-but-white supremacist immigration and policing policies Thatcher imposed(and that "New Labour" to its eternal disgrace, needlessly continued).
Ask any grieving British parent whose LGBT child committed suicide in the Eighties because the school counsellors were forbidden to do anything to reassure that child that she or he was "normal" or "all right" even though they'd been born LGBT, as a result of that miserable harridan's hateful "Section 28" policy forbidding school or public mental health authorities from treating LGBT people with compassion and understanding how much "freedom" the Iron Lady allowed THEIR child to have a life.
Ask anyone who spent years sleeping rough on the streets of London, Liverpool, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Manchester or any other large UK city due to Mag The Knife's brutal cuts in housing benefit how much "freedom" they had...if you can find any who didn't die of pneumonia.
Ask anyone in that era who protested for peace or picketed in defense of the rights of working people to a decent wage, decent working conditions and a life built on dignity and respect how much "freedom" they were given to carry on their legitimate and honourable campaigns for human decency.
Ask any Traveller who was hounded from town to town by brutal Tory local councils how much "freedom" they had under Thatcherism.
Ask. I DARE you.
forestpath
(3,102 posts)madrchsod
(58,162 posts)it`s obvious he lives in a world that only he sees.
Carolina
(6,960 posts)I now have the same reactions to Obama that I did to Bush:
Swearing at the TV
Echoing my congresscritter's 'You lie' exclamation
Hitting the mute or off buttons
Adenoid_Hynkel
(14,093 posts)in that case, Maggie's idea of 'freedom' was defending the mass murdering dictator and helping escape justice for his crimes
JVS
(61,935 posts)Octafish
(55,745 posts)People of Quality, most un-Democratic.
Beacool
(30,247 posts)He died at 91. Unfortunately, that was a privilege denied to Salvador Allende and thousands of his supporters.
Hey Maggie, say hello to Augusto.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)General Pinochet at the Bookstore
Santiago, Chile, July 2004
The generals limo parked at the corner of San Diego street
and his bodyguard escorted him to the bookstore
called La Oportunidad, so he could browse
for rare works of history.
There were no bloody fingerprints left on the pages.
No books turned to ash at his touch.
He did not track the soil of mass graves on his shoes,
nor did his eyes glow red with a demons heat.
Worse: His hands were scrubbed, and his eyes were blue,
and the dementia that raged in his head like a demon,
making the generals trial impossible, had disappeared.
Desaparecido: like thousands dead but not dead,
as the crowd reminded the general,
gathered outside the bookstore to jeer
when he scurried away with his bodyguards,
so much smaller in person.
-- Martín Espada
Beacool
(30,247 posts)Pinochet was vile.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)I'm getting kind of tired of listening to the president recite Republican talking points every single day
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)tularetom
(23,664 posts)Even Ronnie didn't have the brass ones to propose cuts to Social Security and Medicare.
And the way he changed the subject to gun control when everybody started bitching...she would have thought that was masterful.
I don't know why republicans hate the man so much, he's just doing what they always want to do, but he's so much better at it.
Bucky
(53,953 posts)I think he still thinks he can get them to like him. I'm glad he's president, but there's a touch of masochist to this man.
olddots
(10,237 posts)maybe we liberal-progressive democrats are too eager to please because we want justice , peace and freedom so much it hurts .
Quantess
(27,630 posts)Our leader is expected to be classy and say something nice.
mia
(8,360 posts)I wish he had the wit and courage of Thatcher and could put his opponents in their places.
Thatcher was no placater.
blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts)Oh, well, the Republicans love her.
Hope for Change!
blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts)And Reagan.
His luminaries.
Pterodactyl
(1,687 posts)idwiyo
(5,113 posts)blind? THAT freedom and liberty?
Why thank you, Sir! At least I know who's side you are on, without a doubt now.
rsmith6621
(6,942 posts)...this comment though expected and social security cuts he has a lot of tomatoes to dodge.
jzodda
(2,124 posts)The President of the US is not like the Prime minister of UK. He is also the Head of State.
Its the job of the head of state to say bullshit stuff like this. She was the leader of UK- he has to say something and it had to be nice.
I bet that its not how he really feels. I am sure if the timing wasn't so bad he would have quite a few bad things to say about her. Now is not the time.
The UK is one of our strongest allies and when something like this happens it is expected that you say nice things. You people who want to "re-evaluate" the president over this have gone off the deep end.
BeyondGeography
(39,351 posts)Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)It would be the same thing. Oh Mr. President how unprofessional. Come on, you know that's how you'd play it. You'd be shocked at his dissing a world leader.
tavalon
(27,985 posts)so his bar isn't set all that high.
Fearless
(18,421 posts)"It's a big club and you ain't in it."
The elite have more in common with each other than with the rest of the world. They care more about that similarity than mere political differences.
Anyone who says that Thatcher is a "great champion of freedom" needs their head examined. There I said it.
Celefin
(532 posts)Political correctness would entail not hurting the feelings of millions of people, no?
Ask the people in Northern Ireland, Wales and Scotland what Maggie did for them.
Ask the Chileans, the black South Africans
This is adding insult to injury, plain and simple. And completely needlessly so.
If you want to say something respectful about miss 'there is no such thing as society'...
Then say something like 'she always was true to her convictions and committed to lead Britain steadfastly as our most valued ally'... or something like that.
But freedom and liberty? That's just plain insulting.
suffragette
(12,232 posts)And praising her is what he did and, I agree, it's insulting to all those who suffered so greatly under her policies.
Arkana
(24,347 posts)He's a world leader--part of the job is being magnanimous.
Catherina
(35,568 posts)This shines just another light on what Obama considers being a "great champion of freedom and liberty" as well as his views on "freedom and liberty".
boilerbabe
(2,214 posts)City Lights
(25,171 posts)villager
(26,001 posts)n/t
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)I guess it shows you the hazards of holding to the "center" when the "center" is so skewed to the right.
alarimer
(16,245 posts)Then they had plenty of freedom.
Still Blue in PDX
(1,999 posts)I don't know why I expect better of him.