California Legislature takes first steps toward 'ammo control'

[alp227]

Source: Bay Area News Group

Nearly four months after the massacre in Newtown, Conn., and even as gun control legislation appears stalled in Congress, California's Legislature took its first steps toward further tightening its already strong firearm laws Tuesday, when a panel approved a bill to restrict ammunition sales.

Under a measure carried by Assemblywoman Nancy Skinner, D-Berkeley, people would have to buy ammunition from a licensed dealer and provide identification. The bill, AB48, was approved by the Democratic-controlled Public Safety Committee on a party-line 5-2 vote. It was the first of nearly two dozen bills legislators will soon address to combat gun violence.

Sales of ammunition would also have to be reported to the state Department of Justice, which would check the names against a registry of prohibited gun owners -- a tool to allow authorities to seize guns from those who are banned from possessing them because of criminal or mental health histories. In addition, local law enforcement agencies would be alerted to anyone purchasing more than 3,000 rounds of ammunition within a five-day period.

Also prohibited would be the sale of kits that gun owners use to convert 10-round magazines into high-capacity magazines.

Read more: http://www.mercurynews.com/california-budget/ci_22929819/

[Politicalboi]

1. Go California

It's amazing to think that it's harder to get cold medicine than bullets. But now it looks like it will almost be the same. They need to raise the cost of ammo too.

[LAGC]

2. That will just lead to more people reloading on their own ammo.

The difference between cold medicine and ammo is that its not very easy to synthesize Sudafed in your garage, so there is only one "choke-point" -- the neighborhood store.

They'll have to crack down on reloading equipment as well for such a law to be effective, but that will only piss off many more gun-owners who might be more receptive to less invasive gun controls.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

3. Or buying out of state

Go to Vegas for a weekend and bring back your winnings in something other than cash

[Hoyt]

14. Yep, so-called "law-abiding" gun owners figuring out ways to avoid laws.

That's why we need tough restrictions, too many gun owners really aren't responsible or law-abiding.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

16. That is not illegal under the proposed law

There might be use tax (AKA sales tax) like any other out of state purchase.

[Hoyt]

20. Just because something is legal doesn't make it right.

You are the one who suggested going to another state to buy ammo if the proposed law were passed.

I think that is circumventing the intent of the law, but gun owners aren't known for caring about the intent or spirit of the law. If they can skirt the law with a little modification here, or a little one there, they'll do it -- not unlike banksters and others.

I see you are already thinking about what you could do if faced with restrictions that impact your gun love.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

26. Since the ammunition is not being banned, why not?

Its actually a form of civil disobedience. Are you against that too, or only when it is your sacred cow? Should we not tree sit, or Occupy because it is against the law too?

[Hoyt]

36. That's what Randy Weaver said too. In any event, you are the typical gun owner, and why

something needs to be done to actually make them as responsible as they keep telling us they are.

[premium]

39. Here we go,

the Randy Weaver canard.
What, no mention of David Koresh?

[Hoyt]

43. Based upon previous communication with you --

(can't remember what user name you were under at the time), I knew mention of your buddy would draw a response.

Have a nice day.

[premium]

48. My buddy?

Weaver is a POS racist asshole, I've never even talked about him here.
I've never defended him here or in the real world.

Don't try to say he's my buddy, matter of fact, you owe me an apology.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

51. His buddy? You are the one quoting him regularly

[ProgressiveProfessor]

50. You must know Weaver well, given that you cite unique quotes from him that no one else has

Economic prudence is responsible behavior on the part of the populace. I wish the pols would do more of it.

Note that I did not suggest bringing in ammunition that CA bans like tracers, just buying legal rounds where it is the most economical.

[Hoyt]

52. Yes, had a number of debates with Gungeoneers here who think Weaver was a poor misunderstood

gun owner, and a martyr to gun cultists.

In truth, he was a friend of the Ayran Nation, trafficked in illegal guns to help them intimidate people, hid behind his wife and child in his compound, and was the type of gun nut that Gungeoneers should disown, but do not.

[premium]

54. This is comedy gold at it's best.

You have a nice day also.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

55. So just how well do you know Weaver to come up with all those quotes?

In those so called debates you had your head handed to you for not knowing the facts and making stuff up. To remind you of those facts:

Weaver was a racist asshole, nobody here supports him.
BATF and later the FBI fucked up big time, people died, and they lied about it
Federal Gov paid off the Weavers
Prosecution of Federal LEOs was derailed due to a change in local prosecutor
Ruby Ridge is a scenario that is trained today as a "what never to do" in law enforcement

[Hoyt]

56. You are the one sticking up for him, not me. He is responsible for what happened to him.

[premium]

57. Who's sticking up for him?

Do you have links?

[friendly_iconoclast]

89. You are talking to the Pat Robertson of gun control advocacy.

His pronunciamentoes are to be accepted without question and without evidence.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

59. You are the one quoting from him like a good friend, not anyone else

I am the one who called him a racist asshole who no one here supports

Facts matter, though may be not in your world.

[LanternWaste]

68. Odd that... I often cite unique quotes from Cicero, yet I never knew the guy.

Odd that... I often cite unique quotes from Cicero and Cato, yet I never knew the guys.

I s'pose that petulant implications are often the best we have when (as you said) we perceive an insult to one of our sacred cows...

[ProgressiveProfessor]

69. I doubt they are unique unless you are like Hoyt

and just make stuff up...

[premium]

28. What restriction?

There's no restriction to going across the border and buying all the ammo you want in another state.

You can moan and make accusations all you want, but until there's a law banning that, there's nothing illegal about it.

[Hoyt]

38. Once again, your gun love blinds you to what being responsible/law-abiding really means.

[premium]

42. Gun love? What gun love?

As you know, I only own 1 hand gun, which I haven't shot in probably 10 years, and I own 1 shotgun, which I haven't shot in probably 10 years, so if that makes me a gun lover, then you've set your standards for gun love really low.

What's not being law abiding by buying ammo in another state?
Are you saying that going into NV to buy ammo is illegal?
Show us the CA law that bans that.

[primavera]

22. Neither is squirreling away money in offshore accounts to escape taxes

But it's still not a commendable thing to do. And that's part of the point. Sure, there are always ways to circumvent and/or break laws. People still commit fraud even though it's illegal. But the existence of laws making fraud illegal at least has the effect of stigmatizing the behavior. I would like to believe that most citizens are responsible and law abiding, so, if you make it known that fraud or tax evasion or skirting gun laws constitutes a form of behavior that is not responsible and/or law abiding, it will have an impact.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

25. What do you do when the "law is an ass"

Last edited Wed Apr 3, 2013, 01:20 PM - Edit history (1)

Americans have a an anarchistic streak in the national character. When the pols get dumb, we find away to get around it. Not unlike the forsaking of tea in favor of coffee several centuries back.

This is a farking stupid law that will raise costs and prevent end users from buying in large enough quantities to get a break on cost. It is so dumb it is worthy of Bloomie.

Your argument when taken to the fullest would stigmatize all forms of civil disobedience, of which buying items out of state clearly is.

[primavera]

74. You have to wait and see

True, there is a strong anarchist tendency amongst Americans who believe that all laws are stupid. Happily, they do not speak for everyone in this country. If it should prove to be the case that everyone agrees with the anarchists that it's a stupid law, then it will likely get overturned or re-written eventually. If, on the other hand, it's a good law that only some people consider to be stupid, it will stick around and the number of people who consider it stupid dwindle and begin to appear stupid themselves for opposing it.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

83. Most Americans don't believe that all laws are stupid...only the ones they disagree with

Its a strong part of who we are as a people. We tend not to believe that the government/pols are any smarter or wiser than we are. It drives the zealots nuts on both sides. Some pols deride Johnny Six Pack and flyover country, saying how they know what we really need and then wonder why our party loses elections. Poke the little people where they live and you may not like the result.

The other thing that neither side acknowledges is the slow evolution/changes in what is acceptable. Being gay was once considered a mental disease and interracial marriage, let alone gay marriage could get you sent to jail. Prior to New Town, the pendulum was swinging against gun control. More and more states were going with concealed carry and even constitutional carry. Castle Doctrine was well entrenched, and SYG was gaining. Now things seem more balanced. The DiFi bill died (smart move by the antis) in favor of a piecemeal approach.

In the end I expect a broader regulatory spread. LA politicians would love to gun laws like WashDC and Chicago and the state of CA may let them. On the other hand I expect places like Utah to get looser and more liberal with their gun laws.

[primavera]

104. It's a pity they see it as telling them "what they need"

When all they're being told is to not harm others. You want to have a gun? I'm cool with that, as long as you don't kill others with it. You want to drive a big car? No problem, as long as you don't spew out a bunch of toxic emissions that contribute to public respiratory health problems and global climate change. You want to go snowmobiling through the wilds? Fine, as long as you don't disturb fragile ecosystems in the process. You want to get rich? Great, so long as you don't bilk little old ladies out of their life savings or oppress workers in slave-like working conditions to do it. That's always the problem with the libertarian perspective: they perceive that they have some fundamental liberty to do whatever they like even when it causes harm to others. And hurting others is not a "freedom" anyone should have.

[Bay Boy]

77. Should a woman in North Dakota not drive

to a neighboring state to get an abortion? Should a gay couple in Michigan not go to New York to get married? Should a marijuana aficionado not go to Colorado for pot? If you answered 'yes' to any of these questions why shouldn't a gun owner cross a state line to purchase ammo?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

80. How dare you make apt and appropriate comparisons

It will upset the delicate flowers and their sacred cows to no end

[Bay Boy]

93. Do I hear crickets?

Civil disobedience is a democratic principle. But only if it's something you agree with I guess.

[premium]

17. Hell, all that needs to happen is for some enterprising

person to set up a gun store on the I-15 just across the border in Primm, NV., don't even need to drive all the way to Las Vegas.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

18. Might be easier to do it on the western fringe of LV

Lots of vacant commercial space, some bill boards, and a little internet advertising would be all that is needed.

There is already one specialty ammo shop in LV, though I have never been there.

[premium]

21. That would probably be better,

Primm is too close to the border, CHP could record CA license plates.

I think the place is call Discount Firearms and Ammo on Highland Dr.

I've never been there but I heard that you can get some exotic ammo there.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

23. Here is another

http://hitechammotogo.com/

[premium]

24. Thanks for the link.

I know exactly where this place is.

[PSPS]

4. Yes, we must not "piss off" the sacred and special "gun owners."

[LAGC]

7. Well, the "perfect" is often the enemy of the "good."

There are MANY gun owners who are totally on board with such popular measures like "universal background checks" and what not, but extreme over-reaching bills like this one only cause many of them to retreat and hunker down, opposing any gun control measures whatsoever. It totally fuels the NRA's coffers and boosts their membership rolls.

In the end, instead of getting something done, these extreme anti-gunners only ensure that nothing gets done at all.

[Control-Z]

12. Extreme and over-reaching?

Yeah, right. Keep telling yourself that. And hunker down, by all means.

[upaloopa]

34. Again who cares what they do?

I think you are seeing the beginnings of the backlash against years of gunner bullying that is only going to get larger.
You are just on the wrong side of history. You could embrace the battle against gun violence and help your cause but no you'd rather act like some spoiled children.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

66. I think it will be spotty at best and state to state variations will continue to increase

I don't see a major change at the Federal level. CA will get more repressive while many other western states will get more liberal.

For example, LA County would like be be as strict as WashDC or Chicago while I expect it to get easier in Utah

[CreekDog]

5. people will buy less ammo

when they made cigarettes harder to get, people bought less.

when they made cigarettes harder to smoke, people smoked less.

and those are addictive things.

yes, people, overall, will do less, some hardcore will be the exception but not the rule.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

30. Or they will get it out of state

When I lived in southern MD, the 301 bridge was not far away. On the VA side were several smoke shops. If you were headed that way and smoked, it was easy to stop. Apparently it was worth gas to make a dedicated trip if you bought enough. Then again, there was a lot of dumbness in MD.

This is a stupid law worthy of Bloomie. It prevents buyers from getting enough quantity to get volume discounts on perfectly legal goods. It also encourages civil disobedience and lowers the respect for law. Its just dumb, but given what I see of pols these days, that does not surprise me. That our party does dumb stuff like this and other things (http://stopab666.org/) is truly unfortunate.

[CreekDog]

58. Just as with smoking on average people will buy less

Your exception is not the rule but the exception.

The reason you lack credibility on this issue is that you illustrate your obtuse agression against facts by citing smoke shops without recognizing that individual instances of success can be seen when the overall industry is shrinking.

If you regulate ammo as cigarettes have been there will be less use, even if there are exceptions to the overall trend.

Also regarding what you call "stupid" that is what you think of most of the liberal agenda.

So who cares if you think it's stupid.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

60. Why don't you look at the real world on this

Serious shooters buy ammo in bulk to save money. If you are a competitor, it can add up to to real money over time. Most criminals don't go through a box of fifty rounds in a career.

CA already has some of the most repressive gun laws in the US. This is feel good law that will only inconvenience the good folks and not impact the criminals. You might want to read it for yourself.

You have no idea what I support and what I have done. Yes I diverge from the orthodoxy on the gun issue, but with some very good reasons. Being stupid is not the liberal agenda, at least not for the liberals I know.

[CreekDog]

84. the real world is that if you make something more expensive and more complicated to do, there's less

...of it.

if you feel "oppressed" by California gun laws...too effing bad.

as for your positions, you've been posting to the right of almost everyone here for ages, expect that context to be brought to arguments you have with others here.

[friendly_iconoclast]

88. Like cannabis, for instance?

[CreekDog]

103. yes, there are many, many people that don't buy it b/c it's not legal

[mbperrin]

9. I think reloading 5,000 rounds will be a bit more daunting than getting

them off a shelf.

And this law is extremely non-invasive. I'd like to see every round marked with an identifier, one on the slug, one on the casing, and then those reported to law enforcement at purchase. Also need to get identifying rifling marks off every weapon and register those, so that when a round is fired, we know who bought the round, and which gun it was fired from.

More needed, but that's a start. California is taking a baby step here, but that's more than most, so good for them.

[friendly_iconoclast]

13. Maryland dumped ballistic fingerprinting after *one* conviction in five years:

Last edited Wed Apr 3, 2013, 06:42 PM - Edit history (2)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A19876-2005Apr1.html

Ballistics Database Yields 1st Conviction
Oxon Hill Man Tied To Murder Weapon

By Ruben Castaneda and David Snyder
Washington Post Staff Writers
Saturday, April 2, 2005; Page B01

Evidence linking an Oxon Hill man to a murder weapon -- the equivalent of a handgun's fingerprint -- yesterday helped Prince George's County prosecutors win a first-degree murder case.

The verdict against Robert Garner, 21, marked the first time that prosecutors in Maryland have used information from a statewide ballistics database to obtain a conviction, law enforcement officials said. The conviction comes as some Maryland lawmakers are trying to kill the Integrated Ballistics Identification System because they say it is ineffective...

... The database was created by state lawmakers in 2000; New York is the only other state with such a law. The program came under criticism this year after Maryland State Police issued a report saying it was costly and ineffective.

Since the law's inception, state police have gathered test-fired shell casings from more than 43,000 handguns sold in the state, according to the report, which was compiled last fall. Police had used the database 208 times, yielding six "hits," or matches, the report said. The program had cost the state $2.6 million and had produced no convictions, the report said.

[mbperrin]

85. I'd say one conviction in five years is great!

Apparently, Maryland does not value human life.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

35. Not really

Newer progressive machines are claiming 500-800 rounds an hour. Depending on where you get the supplies, you can come in at 50% of new costs. It doesn't take long to payback the equipment and start saving money. I used to get 300 rounds per hour on much older gear when I was competing.

Individual serialization is not possible or practical at this time. Even microstamping is not ready for prime time.

Forensic style gun registries has been an epic fail everywhere they have been tried.

[mbperrin]

86. I don't know why we can't serialize something as large as a round.

Crude oil is serialized before it goes in the pipeline, and a small number of molecules will identify the owner.

Guarantee that if we create a national program where someone makes billions of dollars doing it, the technology will appear.

AND if I force gun owners to save 50% and be thrifty, why, they should give me a medal!

[ProgressiveProfessor]

87. Where and how would you serialize a 22LR round

given the millions made and expended annually? What about the many other millions of centerfire rounds used by civilians and the government.

What about those who cast their own bullets?

How do you trace ownership once it leaves the store.

The tech is just not there yet.

[mbperrin]

96. I see marks on these.

Anything with a case can be marked right on the case, ditto a slug.

Those who cast their own will need to register their casings and mark their bullets.

Ownership transfers just like a car: with a title, whether sold, given, or lost.

I don't think there's any problem with the tech - have you seen the tiny security strips in currency?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

99. It doesn't scale or handle the quantities involved well

There are also the billions of rounds already out there, including a tremendous amount of milsurp. As a now retired IT guy, the IT issues alone are overwhelming.

The tech you site cannot scale. A pink slip with every round with individual accounting is totally unworkable. The security strips in bills are not individualized nor serialized.

Bullet markings would not survive most employments, particularly hunting rounds, lead bullets, and 22LR. Maybe some FMJs.

Case markings would have a high chance of surviving but even using special characters, I cannot imagine getting sequential 10-12 digit equivalent unique markings on every round made anywhere in the US.

The tech is just not there. Even taggant proponents think this would be a bridge too far, at least at this time.

[mbperrin]

102. I was an inventory specialist for the oil industry before I became a teacher.

We'll just have to differ on methods and possibles. You can't guess how many plant managers told me that this or that or the other couldn't be measured or counted or done.

We always did measure, count, and do it, right down to 17 million plus screws in 28 different sizes and threads, each one marked, and this was before 1997. What we nearly always found was that the resistance to it was based on how much the locals had stolen, used, wasted, or otherwise mishandled.

The bills themselves are serialized, of course, and it would be a simple matter to include that on the strip. In fact, I'll bet that's next. Doesn't have to be 100% workable at all. If we solve one crime more using it than not, good enough for me. I put a high value on life, and I'm willing to pay a high price for it.

And I'm always one bridge too far - that's why I'm pro-gressive!

[friendly_iconoclast]

10. Or buying from more than one dealer. Can you say "Road Trip!"?

[jpak]

19. Ban powder, press and bullet sales

problem solved

Yup

[upaloopa]

29. We really don't care about what pisses off gun owners.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

31. Let us see how the next election goes

You may rue those words

[upaloopa]

37. Not hardly. What makes you think you out number the people who

want more and tougher restrictions? Your days in the sun are coming to an end.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

61. Lets see how it goes

President Clinton had is take on the last time around.

My days in the sun are ending regardless

[LAGC]

64. Indeed, I have a feeling we are going to get hammered in 2014.

Probably lose the Senate as well, considering how many rural state seats are up for grabs.

Yet, these same ideologues will be tongue-clucking afterwards claiming its because we didn't go even MORE aggressively after guns/ammo restrictions that do little to prevent crime and only piss off law-abiding hobbyists.

And then when Democrats do finally regain the majority in Congress in another 10-20 years, history will probably repeat itself yet again.

Some folks never learn.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

67. I am on the fence somewhat and think it will be a state by state thing

No impact in CA, but the party will lose seats elsewhere. I don't think it will be the dominant issue but will be in play in many localities. Urban vs rural kind of thing.

[WinniSkipper]

70. The fact that no serious regulations will be passed...

....even though UBC and Mag capacity had an opportunity to pass, with support from gun owners? And that opportunity was pissed away by overreaching?

I just don't understand why the Pro Control movement doesn't use some intelligence, get a few victories, and build off of that.

What has changed in the demographics/polls of Pro/Anti 2A since AWB 1 that gives Antis the idea that they are making profess?

And when you focus on what is a small (in percentage) issue compared to handguns - it makes the cause seem a little odd. It goes for the news splash rather than the day to day issue of handgun violence.

And why, why, why, if pro Control really wants to do something - why aren't they going after handguns? I am still waiting to hear an explanation for that.

This isn't gay marriage where the country is opening its eyes and acceptance is expanding rapidly. Because people, even idiots, are realizing gay marriage doesn't effect them and their beliefs at all. 2A is a very different issue.

[premium]

32. You really should,

there's 80+ million gun owners in the country and pissing them off is probably not a good idea.

[upaloopa]

40. Give me a break. That means there are at least

Last edited Wed Apr 3, 2013, 02:06 PM - Edit history (2)

280 million non gun owners who are already pissed off by all the resent gun violence. I think your hay day is passed and you are unwilling to recognize that fact.

[CokeMachine]

91. Population is 307 million not 360 million as your math suggests.

Of the 307 million, 232 million are 18 or over. 80/232 = ~35%. That's a large voting block that may/may not be mobilized depending on how far they are pushed. I'm aware that some in that 35% are for more restrictive regulations as well as there are some in the 65% that are against more restrictive regulations.

http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/cats/population/estimates_and_projections_by_age_sex_raceethnicity.html

[upaloopa]

92. Thanks for the correction. I was making a WAG

[CokeMachine]

94. No Problem

Have a good night!

[upaloopa]

95. You too have a good night

[Macoy51]

15. Charge for ALL Constitutional Rights

Raising the cost of exercising your constitutional rights is a great idea. We can easily expand this to the other rights in the Constitution. Just think of all the damage uninformed votes do when they vote. A poll tax, or at least a written test before voting is a great way to cut down on harmful voters. Requiring people who speak out against the government to register and buy a “Freedom of Speech” card will both raise much needed revenue and cut down on speech I don’t like.


Macoy

[upaloopa]

41. Nice try. Try life liberty and the persuit of happiness

Trump!

[ProgressiveProfessor]

46. They are not inherently in conflict

Over trump

[upaloopa]

47. They are when you get shot

[ProgressiveProfessor]

53. Actually it depends on the courts, who have found them not inherently in conflict

Getting shot is a bad thing. So is being threatened by a criminal with a gun. I have had both done to me, so I speak from experience. For a long time afterwards I was much more pro gun control but that changed over time due to other events.

Until the overall level of violence in society drops so those unpopular members of our society are safe from threats and violence, I will support civilian ownership of handguns for self defense. I do support UBC and some other tightening of the rules, but CA pols are just being dumb on this one.

[beevul]

90. So make a law against shooting people. N/T

[Politicub]

98. Access to ammo isn't a right

Unless I missed something.

[slackmaster]

100. "The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny...

...or disparage others retained by the people."

[Bay Boy]

76. Do you think that raising the cost of ammo...

...would have prevented Sandy Hook, Aurora or any other madman attack?

[Deep13]

6. Less concerned about ammunition than firearms.

A lot of people buy in bulk when it is on sale and then slowly use it up at the range. Frankly, I'm still shooting the last sale ammunition since it is now impossible to get. And if they do the restriction I hope they exempt .22 rimfire. They're tiny. I can blow through 3000 rounds of .22 in a few hours.

[Macoy51]

71. Very True

I bought 6,000 rounds in bulk in one day..........4 years ago. I am slowly working my way through the crates with no mass shooting by me so far. But when the zombies come, I WILL be ready.


Macoy

[Deep13]

75. That's with Ruger 10/22...

...it takes a little longer if shooting bolt action at small targets. I don't really need the power or reliability of a major caliber because stick-on targets don't shoot back and zombies are imaginary.

[AtheistCrusader]

8. All they had to do was ban the sale of the mag body for repair kits.

Ok, the ammo is fine, whatever. Looks good.



What the hell is this 'conversion kit' crap? If you have a 10 round magazine and buy 'repair parts' for a 30 rounder that results in a new 30 round mag, you have violated California Penal Code 12020(a)(2).

Derp. If people are doing this because the kits can't be blocked for sale and LEO can't follow up with the people doing it, just ban the sale of repair mag bodies. Make the body the 'magazine' like we make the lower on a rifle the 'firearm'. DONE. Easy peasey, nice and squeezy. Simple patch to thwart douchebags.

[upaloopa]

27. What I like most about these laws is that

gunners say the will boycott California because of them. I say good go the fuck somewhere else we don't need your money.

[premium]

33. I thought it was CO that they were saying that about,

not CA.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

44. And NY too

When the Soup Nazi controversy emerged yesterday, I bet few here noticed that NY cop shops can no longer buy a semi-auto 50. BMG rifle from any manufacturer in the US nor get support if they buy one from a dealer/used.

While that is not a bad thing in the eyes of many here, it is a big deal in the SWAT community. More and more quality vendors are cutting off selling direct to the departments. Approaching 100 last I saw.

[upaloopa]

45. Just wait you'll hear it about CA too

[premium]

49. No doubt. nt.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

62. Have to wonder if they will move the California State trap shoot to Reno or Las Vegas

Depending on the final form of the bill, competitors might not be able to get enough ammunition to compete otherwise.

[premium]

72. We'd welcome them with open arms. nt.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

73. When I was competing, LV and Reno were always nice shoots.

The SHOT show now appears to be permanent in LV too.

[slackmaster]

63. I'm glad I stocked up when ammunition was cheap

I'm sick of the mad fools trying to control every aspect of peoples' lives.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

65. I am seeing more and more available these days

I am not buying anymore and have recently transferred just about all of what I had.

[Bay Boy]

78. What does transferred mean? n/t

[ProgressiveProfessor]

79. Sold or given away

[Bay Boy]

81. two questions

You got anymore to give away?
Where do you live?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

82. It is all gone at this point. Got a pretty penny for it.

I am in the process of leaving SoCal and could never have used it all anyway.

[Politicub]

97. Awesome! They need to tax ammo like cigarettes

With a $1 per bullet tax.

[mwrguy]

101. Better post some agents on the AZ border

They'll be smuggling clips into California instead of Mexico now.