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H2O Man

(73,333 posts)
Wed Oct 18, 2017, 12:44 PM Oct 2017

Raids on the Unspeakable

“Everything is the exact opposite of what it really is.” – Harry Nilsson



In 1964, Erich Fromm came up with the term “malignant narcissism” in “The Heart of Man”, to define a specific type of disorder in certain individuals. He described it as “the most severe pathology and the root of the most vicious destructiveness and inhumanity.” In 1973, he published “The Anatomy of Human Destructiveness,” that described how individuals with this “severe mental sickness” rise to positions of power in unhealthy societies. While not enough people read Fromm these days, it's a topic that Americans – and the rest of the world –having been thinking about in recent months.

Fromm is my favorite social scientist/ social psychologist. His books and lectures played a significant part in my meager education, and I continue to collect his writings. Although his definition of “malignant narcissism” as a clinical diagnosis accepted by insurance companies (because it can't be successfully treated), it is an issue of concern because of Donald Trump. It's not just Democrats that see the problem.

An outstanding resource of vital current information is “The Dangerous Case of Donald Trump: 27 Psychiatrists and Mental Health Experts Assess a President.” The authors recognize that it is generally not good to diagnose someone they are not treating; however, in this instance, that rule is trumped by the duty to warn the public of a danger to its safety.

I've listened to an interview with Bandy Lee, the lady who led the effort that resulted in this important book, and was extremely impressed. In my own simple mind, I recognized that the Fromm section of my library was incomplete for understanding the severe dangers that Trump poses today, without this addition. Hence, I am eagerly awaiting its arrival.

There have been several valuable contributions between Fromm and Lee's efforts. A variety of names, such as “pathological narcissism,” have been applied to the disorder. Hare's checklist was developed in the 1970s, and is widely recognized for its accuracy. However, Donald Trump himself may be providing the most easily recognized example for the general public's understanding of this illness.

Still, the (very) recent “Duty to Warn Day” was largely overlooked, even by many in the politically active grass roots. Having watched a segment from “Democracy Now” on the book the night before, with a close friend who has been an activist for 50+ years, we may have identified one of the reasons why. My buddy has two PhD's – philosophy and medical – and a background in psychology. He suggested that the terms that the experts use require a degree of translation for the general public.

He focused on the phrase “malignant normalcy.” What does that mean to the average person? While his point was well taken, I noted that the DU community has frequently noted the dangers of normalizing Trump's behaviors. Thus, there is both the possibility – and necessity – of people at the grass roots level serving as translators in the larger discussion.

We know, for example, that Trump wants to destroy all the advances President Obama made. This went beyond Trump's wallowing in the gutter of the “birth certificate” nonsense. He was furious that Obama roasted him at the correspondents dinner. That rage set the foundation for Trump's presidency.

His campaign – from the primaries to election day – was based entirely on insulting his opponents, and making false claims about how great and talented he is. During the last nine months, his behaviors have been even more disgraceful. He is clearly a pathological liar. His inner need to insult and bully anyone who disagrees with him is creating international crises. He has proven that he lacks any qualifications to hold the office that the Russian mob elected him to.

At the same time, he is the exact opposite – on the inside – of the character he plays on the outside. He's like one of the hollow chocolate Easter rabbits that children get: there is nothing at his core, and Trump is dimly aware of that. This is why he is so reactive to what he views as “insults.” Thus, his need to be “busy,” and to “destroy” those who see through him.

The psychiatrists who contributed to the new book are actually meeting with members of the House and Senate, helping them to put Trump's awful behaviors into context. It's not just Democrats in Congress that recognize there is a very serious problem. We need to be spreading this information on Trump's easily diagnosed, extremely dangerous personality disorder to the general public. And this requires that we do so beyond those formats where others already know these things.

This includes starting with the media in our own towns and cities. It should include letters to the editor of newspapers large and small. Contacts with radio and television stations. And contacts with our elected officials, no matter what party affiliation they have. Request a response from each official, and make clear it will be used in letters to the editor, etc.

We must begin this effort immediately, and coordinate it with the 2018 mid-term elections. Thank you for your consideration.

Peace,
H2O Man

31 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Raids on the Unspeakable (Original Post) H2O Man Oct 2017 OP
i would like to see more of his made up reality termed- bluffing. mopinko Oct 2017 #1
I go back H2O Man Oct 2017 #6
i worry the most about the downwind consequences of all this. mopinko Oct 2017 #8
Yes, definitely. H2O Man Oct 2017 #10
the resistance is still giving me some hope. mopinko Oct 2017 #12
The 25th doesn't completely remove him from office, though, because it is "temporary"--i.e., he tblue37 Oct 2017 #19
Right. H2O Man Oct 2017 #23
My Italian shrink insisted I read, "To Have or to Be" fierywoman Oct 2017 #2
Great book! H2O Man Oct 2017 #7
Thanks! I'll check it out. fierywoman Oct 2017 #20
It would help if he were not so successful at diverting the media... kentuck Oct 2017 #3
Good call. H2O Man Oct 2017 #9
He was put on the defensive by the question about why he hadn't called the families...? kentuck Oct 2017 #13
You've nailed it again. H2O Man Oct 2017 #17
I always enjoy your OP's, H2O Man steve2470 Oct 2017 #4
Thanks, Steve! H2O Man Oct 2017 #14
I have often marveled Beringia Oct 2017 #5
I remember the evening H2O Man Oct 2017 #15
Regarding America is better than Trump Beringia Oct 2017 #22
Interesting. H2O Man Oct 2017 #24
Recommended, and kickin' for later. n/t ms liberty Oct 2017 #11
Thank you! H2O Man Oct 2017 #16
Excellent post WaterMan malaise Oct 2017 #18
Thanks, Buddy! H2O Man Oct 2017 #25
K&R for visibility. nt tblue37 Oct 2017 #21
Thanks! H2O Man Oct 2017 #26
K and R Ligyron Oct 2017 #27
Thanks! H2O Man Oct 2017 #28
KR Me. Oct 2017 #29
Thanks, Me! H2O Man Oct 2017 #30
You Nailed It Me. Oct 2017 #31

mopinko

(69,806 posts)
1. i would like to see more of his made up reality termed- bluffing.
Wed Oct 18, 2017, 01:43 PM
Oct 2017

partly as we are so inured to the fact that he lies so easily, but also because i think it points to that empty center of which you speak.
yes, they are lies. but they are also his way of pretending to be someone he is most clearly not. a life long habit, i presume. but so much worse now that his brain is clearly rotting.

we really must find a way to get this cretin a full medical exam from a real doctor. drag his fat ass to walter reed, and put him through the exact same protocol that is used to determine the fitness of military commanders. that is a thing. he needs to prove he is fit.
we need to get that shoe on the other foot.

H2O Man

(73,333 posts)
6. I go back
Wed Oct 18, 2017, 06:36 PM
Oct 2017

and forth between impeachment, which I am confident will begin within a year, and Amendment 25. While XXV would be new territory in terms of constitutional law, I think it is necessary -- yet unlikely to happen. The amount of damage that Trump will do is thus likely to increase as the weeks and months go by. And that's a shame. Really, it's more than a shame. It's criminal. It is cowardice that will result in terrible consequences.

I've got to go to the store tomorrow, for more ink for my printer, paper, and a lot of stamps. I'll be writing "snail mail" letters to various elected representatives, not as a Democrat, but as a human being. Then, when I use their responses for op-eds in area newspapers, no one can say that I'm "playing politics." Because I sure as heck ain't playing.

mopinko

(69,806 posts)
8. i worry the most about the downwind consequences of all this.
Wed Oct 18, 2017, 06:44 PM
Oct 2017

if this goes unchallenged and unpunished, i think our democracy is dead.
the rule of law is dead.

H2O Man

(73,333 posts)
10. Yes, definitely.
Wed Oct 18, 2017, 06:48 PM
Oct 2017

I agree 100%. This is as significant of a cross-roads as our nation has ever faced. Normally, I am pretty upbeat about the future. Lately, I have my doubts. Yet, as Rubin often reminded me, all the roads to wisdom must first pass through valleys of doubt. Just hope we don't reach a dead end for democracy, which is a realistic outcome if we continue in this direction. (Thus, my ordering Thomas Merton's book yesterday!)

mopinko

(69,806 posts)
12. the resistance is still giving me some hope.
Wed Oct 18, 2017, 06:52 PM
Oct 2017

holding my breath until 2018 to see if it is a wave or a tombstone.

tblue37

(64,982 posts)
19. The 25th doesn't completely remove him from office, though, because it is "temporary"--i.e., he
Wed Oct 18, 2017, 07:34 PM
Oct 2017

would still be president, but temporarily incapacitated. Of course, that temporary incapacity could last for the rest of his term and forestall a second term for him.

I think, though, that threatened with Article 25, Trump would resign and claim he did a lot but obstructionist blocker him from doing more. Who knows--if he is angry enough, he might cut a deal with Mueller to take some others down with him, we if he can thus avoid a trial.

H2O Man

(73,333 posts)
23. Right.
Thu Oct 19, 2017, 10:07 AM
Oct 2017

Trump pretends to be a tough guy, ready and willing to fight for a cause. But, as you note, he'd likely quit, claim victory, and blame anyone and everyone else. Likewise, when faced with impeachment, he'll bluster, then quit, saying he wants to spend more time with Ivanka.

H2O Man

(73,333 posts)
7. Great book!
Wed Oct 18, 2017, 06:38 PM
Oct 2017

I'd strongly recommend his book, "The Sane Society." I'm confident that you would appreciate it, as it fits our current situation like a glove. A boxing glove, of course.

kentuck

(110,950 posts)
3. It would help if he were not so successful at diverting the media...
Wed Oct 18, 2017, 02:03 PM
Oct 2017

Such as yesterday, when the question was about him and his lack of action in talking about the Niger massacre. He was able to change the subject to Barack Obama and the media immediately followed...

H2O Man

(73,333 posts)
9. Good call.
Wed Oct 18, 2017, 06:44 PM
Oct 2017

Valid point. Very valid.

In a sense, I'm glad the media is calling him on his toxic lie. It is perhaps an important part of not allowing the lies to be normalized. At the same time, it does allow him to switch the topic. Thus, if they point out the lies, and continue to confront him on his failure to contact the families for so long, it could be the best option.

I enjoyed hearing his press person rant against the reports on his call to the widow yesterday. Malcolm X used to say that when he made his opposition squeal, he knew he was doing right. I'm glad the Congresswoman is talking about it. There really are a lot of solid Democrats in DC now, and I enjoy seeing many of them stepping up to the plate. It is encouraging.

kentuck

(110,950 posts)
13. He was put on the defensive by the question about why he hadn't called the families...?
Wed Oct 18, 2017, 06:53 PM
Oct 2017

...of the 4 dead soldiers. His first impulse is to immediately lie. And so he did.

But sooner or later, the lies are going to start to overflow. And he will be seen by all to be a liar and a deceptionist. Eventually he will expose himself as nothing more than a liar and a bullshitter. Most folks already know it. The only ones that don't seem to know are his base? But, if they don't know by now, it is unlikely they will ever know the truth about Donald Trump. They will continue to live a life of illusion.

H2O Man

(73,333 posts)
17. You've nailed it again.
Wed Oct 18, 2017, 07:16 PM
Oct 2017

Another way of saying that is, of course, Political Science 101 per elections and other contests: there are three groups -- those already for you, those who already oppose you, and the undecided. Hence, to achieve victory, you focus on that third group. They know, in this case, that Trump is a liar, with little ability to do the job. Yet, because "the system" has (in theory) checks and balances, and because General Kelly is in the White House, they are not yet convinced that Trump must be removed. They have stepped one foot into normalizing him.

Our job is to convince that group of the extreme dangers he poses, despite any checks, balances, or generals. When they understand that he is indeed a psychopath, they too will support removing him from office.

His supporters are, in large part, detached from reality. They are so intoxicated from hatred, of "others" and of "the government," that they are delighted to see him destroy things. They don't even see the connection between Trump's attempt to destroy "Obama Care," and the very negative consequences for them and their families.

H2O Man

(73,333 posts)
14. Thanks, Steve!
Wed Oct 18, 2017, 06:54 PM
Oct 2017

And you are correct -- he is definitely a psychopath, and the need to remove him is urgent.

I talk fairly often these days with my old co-workers from the mental health clinic. He reminds us of phantoms we used to encounter, usually in the county jail. They were distinct from the majority of inmates, who were "anti-social," but maintained a criminal code of honor, to varying degrees. The true psychopaths enjoyed causing maximum destruction and suffering, where ever they were.

Beringia

(4,314 posts)
5. I have often marveled
Wed Oct 18, 2017, 03:05 PM
Oct 2017

at the fact that countries could have leaders that were so much dumber and basically bullies, when there are so many intelligent people in the country. Now we have one of them as our own leader and now I understand it better. These people seek the power and in the upside down world, can attain it. Thanks for the post and your level headedness. America is better than Trump and will expel him from our system, it has to be.

H2O Man

(73,333 posts)
15. I remember the evening
Wed Oct 18, 2017, 07:04 PM
Oct 2017

when Nixon resigned. My brother and I were having a blast. I remember we recorded a cassette tape to send to Rubin, who was still incarcerated, saying that the sun was coming up, and things would get better. No one could have convinced me then, that even a Reagan or a Bush -- evil as they were -- could possibly ever be elected. For the system had rejected the gross criminality of Richard Nixon.

After Bush 2, few things have surprised me. When President Obama was in office, it was obvious that hatred was on the rise in sections of America. Old hatreds came back to haunt us.

Trump's "winning" the 2016 election was, in very large part, a result of that hatred. And he thus became the instrument in spreading the poison seeds. Yet, as he note, America is better than Trump, and must expel him. It may be as difficult as it is necessary. Thus, it requires our combined best efforts.

Beringia

(4,314 posts)
22. Regarding America is better than Trump
Wed Oct 18, 2017, 07:54 PM
Oct 2017

I have been watching the series Finding Your Roots on PBS. So far many of the celebrities who had ancestors from the South, their ancestors had slaves and some fought in the Confederacy. It was not that long ago, slavery, and we have come a long way from then, in terms of civil rights. I also have been reading Thomas Merton. I re-read his autobiography Seven Storey Mountain and his friendship with Baroness Catherine De Hueck Doherty who started Friendship House in Harlem. Merton almost went to join her in Harlem, but instead chose to enter the monastery.

H2O Man

(73,333 posts)
24. Interesting.
Thu Oct 19, 2017, 10:28 AM
Oct 2017

In a recent conversation with my younger son, I mentioned Merton's introduction to his book about Gandhi on non-violence. We had been talking about Fromm's writings on how when a nation-state begins to experience internal decay, it can result in a rise in power of a destructive individual or group. He's currently employed at the university he graduated from, and is finding the informal education he is getting to be as valuable as what he received in the classroom as a student. He was describing various pod-casts on the topics we were discussing, and I'd grab a book off the shelf about the same general concepts. It was then that I realized that my supply of Merton's works had disappeared from my library! Hence, for every new book I'll be buying, I'll also order a replacement of older ones that I've loaned out over the years, that haven't found their way back.

H2O Man

(73,333 posts)
25. Thanks, Buddy!
Thu Oct 19, 2017, 10:29 AM
Oct 2017

And you are right -- it really is for the sake of the planet. Lock him in a room full of mirrors.

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