Sessions

[H2O Man]

My father used to say, “If you give a little man a little power, you'll have big problems.” In that context, I have been listening to reports on how Trump is furious with Jeff Sessions, and suspecting that this involves factors beyond Sessions recusing himself from the Russian investigation. This is not to say that Trump doesn't hold grudges. Surely he does, and for both real and imagined slights. More, by his cowardly nature, Trump instinctively attacks those he views as weaker than himself.

Jeff Sessions is definitely a repulsive human being. We need not attribute a single positive quality to him – in fact, not even a neutral one – to identify where it is most likely he has recently upset Trump. The elfin Attorney General's entire political career has been shameful. One hopes his career ends with legal charges this summer.

Sessions was, of course, Trump's first supporter from the Senate. And he was clearly involved in relations between the Trump campaign and the Russian ambassador. Sessions clearly knew his actions were suspect, and thus lied during the confirmation hearings. When caught in the lie, he had to recuse himself from anything to do with the Russian investigation.

Keep in mind that two Senators have made repeated requests that a possible third meeting with the Russian ambassador be investigated by the FBI. Also, that Sessions was involved in the firing of Comey. Note that it was shortly after this that Trump began seeking private legal representation. More, that the media reported that others in the White House were hiring lawyers.

What are the chances that Sessions sought legal counsel? It would seem more likely that he did, than he did not. Would his lawyer recommend that he continue to engage in discussions with Trump on any topic related to the Russian investigation, or that he avoid such potential conversations?

It's known that Trump has communicated with Flynn in recent weeks. His message was, “Stay strong.” Is it possible – even likely – that Trump has attempted to deliver a similar message to Sessions? Especially in light of reports that the two have had several heated discussions recently?

It is possible that Trump is furious about the past recusal, and that the current hearings have him more upset than usual. But it is also possible – and even more likely, I think – that Trump has attempted to speak to Sessions about the investigations, and that Sessions is refusing to engage in these.

That would seem to be a more realistic reason why Sessions would offer to resign at this time. Simply changing the Attorney General now would not stop the investigation. But the offer to resign would be a polite way for Sessions to tell Trump that he's looking out for his own best interests now, not Trump's.

Your thoughts?

[brokephibroke]

1. How big of a repulsive human being does one have to be

To serve in the trump administration? Perry, Carson, DeVos, Sessions, Pence, Bannon, Priebus, Ross, Mnunchin, Tillerson, all of them.

If they have any self respect or love of country, they'd walk.

[H2O Man]

2. Right.

They are all failed human beings.

It sounds like Trump is experiencing difficulties in getting new people to join him, including personal legal counsel. That's a good thing.

[sharedvalues]

10. Nah, they all want to destroy the country to put more $$ in their pockets

That describes DeVos, Bannon, Ross. Maybe Tillerson too. And everyone else who Heritage/Koch recommended.

Priebus is a GOP insider (30 years ago that would mean he was upstanding; today it just means he's in bed with Heritage/Koch too.)

Perry, Carson, Pence are just unimpressive mediocre politicians who may or may not find a way to benefit themselves.

[MyOwnPeace]

32. Great old song!

One evening in October
When I was about one-third sober
And was taking home a load with manly pride
My poor feet began to stutter
So I lay down in the gutter
And a pig came up and lay down by my side

Then we sang "It's All Fair Weather"
And "Good Fellows Get Together"
Till a lady passing by was heard to say
She says, "You can tell a man who boozes
By the company he chooses"
And the pig got up and slowly walked away.

Yep, that's them!!!!!!!

[LOL Lib]

3. Excellent summary and seems likely to be spot on.

The only thing I want to add re: sessions offering to step down, it came across as a very meek way of sessions expressing his butt hurt to trump. It gave me the willies. Like sessions was acting like a jilted lover. I realize this is total nonsense, just wanted to share. I'm weird like that.

[furtheradu]

5. I git it.

That's all I'm sayin.

[LOL Lib]

12. ...

I didn't do it! I swear it wasn't me!

[furtheradu]

13. "gave me the willies".."butt hurt"..

"jilted lover".

I hear Ya!
..that's ALL I'm sayin!!!

[H2O Man]

7. Interesting!

You may be right. But I see Sessions as the very definition of passive-aggressive, and think this "offer" to resign was his way of saying "fuck you" to Trump. Both men are cowards, of course, and Sessions has to be thinking of how to protect himself.

[LOL Lib]

11. I think you are correct. I really do.

Sessions is a nasty little man no doubt!

For some reason it gave me a perverse pleasure to envision it as Sessions saying, "screw you Donnie, I'm taking my ball and going home unless you say you're sorry for hurting my feelings!" I enjoy the thought of emasculating little Jeffery.

[furtheradu]

14. "NASTY"!

[malaise]

21. I'm with you on this

Two cowards interested in self protection at this point.

[H2O Man]

23. In light of Mr. Comey's

testimony today -- the part about Sessions -- it seems even more likely that the OP in correct!

[Eliot Rosewater]

28. But why is trump mad at sessions beyond the recusal?

[H2O Man]

30. If Sessions had

not been forced to recuse himself, he would have controlled Comey's investigation.

[Eliot Rosewater]

31. Yes, and you think all this hate from dumbshit towards sessions is because of that, may well be

i wasnt sure if there were other reasons.

Sessions plans on enslaving or killing many black people so I want him gone/ I wish that was an exaggeration, it isnt.

[H2O Man]

36. I think there's much more.

Mr. Comey's testimony today indicated that Sessions may be in more trouble than for committing perjury at his confirmation hearing.

[furtheradu]

4. MY THOUGHT? Awwwsome freakin post! !!!

Thank YOU, THANK YOU.
YOU are so right on.
Go ahead, jefferson freakin beauregard, freakin sessions. RESIGN.
DO IT, DUM A$$!!!!!
Sorry, God, these freaks be makin me crazy.

[H2O Man]

8. Thanks.

May Sessions rust in pieces.

[elleng]

6. I love your father, MY thought.

“If you give a little man a little power, you'll have big problems.”

[H2O Man]

9. He knew politics.

His favorite politician was LBJ; he used to say but for that war, Johnson would be remembered as the greatest president. But, of course, that war was all too real.

[Zo Zig]

15. Good question.

At this point it seems very difficult to game this out, as to who is being self serving as opposed to who is in collaboration with dump. Why would the four of them today hew to the same line, as if coached? Already talked to Mueller, or stonewalling? Sessions known crime at this point is perjury, maybe?
Strange days ahead, for us all.

[H2O Man]

20. This discussion is timely!

Judging from Mr. Comey's testimony today, it is evident that Sessions has more problems that just lying at his confirmation hearings. It couldn't happen to a more deserving person.

Strange days, indeed. There is a different feel than during Watergate, etc. Of course, it could be because I'm a lot older.

[Zo Zig]

40. You are so right on that!

After today the sky is the limit for Sessions, and others. Comey's testimony was stark in so many aspects, doors appeared where none where known. How many times did he stated in closed session only? Devastating is the word.

On a side note, you are to be commended for your handling of your discussions on DU. You take an active approach to them, and elevate the conversation. Much appreciated.

[H2O Man]

41. Thanks!

That third meeting with the Russian ambassador is coming back to haunt Sessions. It's being reported that Mr. Comey talked about that in the afternoon's closed session.

(Years ago, on DU, we had a series of threads on the Plame scandal, that were outstanding. They were read by people far beyond DU, including a reporter for MSNBC, and at least one of the evening hosts. You might find them interesting. If you google "The Waterman Paper," it should connect you to them. A few of the old gang are assembling here again!)

[Zo Zig]

42. Fitzmas, I remember it well!

Still have my Christmas ornament, read and posted under a different user name.
Keep on keeping on.

[dmr]

45. The Plame threads were more than awesome!

A lot of quality thought, research and care are in those huge threads.

I still have most of those discussions saved on a special hard drive, along with so much more I chronicled from the Bush* era. I call it my compendium. If my health cooperated, I would have continued it thru President Obama and now Trump.

You stated in the OP that Trump & Sessions have had heated discussions. I must've miss this. Would you mind explaining, or provide links, please?

It galls me that these flawed and failed people have failed up once again.

It sickens me that no matter what happens POTUS, & AG will be (is) a part of their biographies. The same thing with the others that have failed up.

Mike Pence, for example, his biography will read governor, VPOTUS, & quite possibly POTUS. It's just plain sickening that a failing governor who most likely not be reelected, ends up with the highest positions in the world! After Indiana, he had no where else to go. Now look at him.

I wish they all would stop with the Flynn lying to him routine. My belief is Pence is deep into this Russian business, too. I want to know answers as to the story/circumstances surrounding Pence and Manafort manipulating Trump into choosing him as the VP running mate. That question nags at me.

In the meantime, Pence, who I swear is made out of rubber, is dutifully biding his time for a complete takeover. God help us.

[H2O Man]

46. Here is one:

http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/06/donald-trump-jeff-sessions-problems

and another:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3741606/jeff-sessions-threatened-quit-donald-trump-russia/

This was also widely covered earlier in the week on both CNN and MSNBC.

[dmr]

57. Thank you. I was up to date after all, lol.

For some reason, I thought there was more Trump-Sessions aggravations. Hey, you never know, maybe there is!

[shraby]

66. I don't think we could have done the Plame threads today like we did then. Google is different and

the information we found then is not as out in the open anymore. An unfortunate turn of events.

[Blue_true]

16. I just need a Kate McKinnon playing Sessions on SNL before Jeff starts his journey to the big

house.

[H2O Man]

22. Perfect!

Thank you.

[grantcart]

17. I am glad he picked Sessions and Devise and the other idiots.

Session isn't just bad optics he literally is the most incompetent legal resource he could rely on.

[H2O Man]

24. Seriously.

But Sessions, like Trump, is convinced that he is not only the smartest person in the room, but also the most talented liar.

I like that more reporters and guests on CNN and MSNBC are comparing the administration to the mafia. That is absolutely on target.

[yortsed snacilbuper]

18. $e$$ion$

[H2O Man]

25. Yikes!

I always liked Granny. But the resemblance is definitely there.

Thanks.

[Samantha]

19. Out of sight, out of mind -- Sessions needs to protect his license to practice law

It is getting too hot for him, and he wants to disappear before the temperature melts the ink on that piece of paper. It is after all, his bread and butter in the aftermath.

I have always detested this man, and I was extremely irate when Trump appointed him to be the Attorney General.

Very interesting thread, H2O Man.

Sam

[H2O Man]

27. What do you

think about what Mr. Comey said in reference to Sessions today?

[Samantha]

43. I think a number of things

Last edited Fri Jun 9, 2017, 01:51 AM - Edit history (1)

When Comey said Sessions might have had a third meeting with the Russian ambassador, I believe he was referencing the meet-up at the Mayflower. Sessions already had to correct the record once, saying he had met the Russian ambassador a second time -- not just once briefly as previously stated. Some were of the opinion that he had not made a mistake but had perjured himself the first go-around.

In that how-many-times-did-you meet the Russian Ambassador saga, he did not mention the Mayflower, so if that comes out as a proven fact, the question of perjury once again raises its ugly head and Sessions at the very least will probably become Trump's ex-Attorney General. Depending on what is discovered as his role in the overall scheme of things (Comey alluded to the fact we do not know everything there is to know yet about Session's involvement), I believe Sessions will take his place in the history written about this particular debacle we now are enduring as dirtier than whale sh*t. As you probably know, that is suppose to be the lowest thing in the ocean, but we now have a candidate for the even-lower.

I believe he will be questioned at a hearing next week, and that should be very revealing (unless, of course, he perjures himself again). I believe lying under oath while testifying to Congress would be classified a felonious act, and if that is correct, there goes that old license to practice law.

Sorry for the run-on nature of this response. I have been listening and watching too much of this recently and can no longer think coherently!

Sam

Postscript: (My prediction) Sessions will make a deal with the government and turn on Trump. After he submits evidence and/or testimony about Trump, he will enter The Witness Protection Program and we will never have to hear from or see him again.

[H2O Man]

44. Mayflower

Yes, I thought the same thing when Comey was testifying. One thing that the media is kind of overlooking is that the FBI was fully aware of Session's troubles well before they rose to the surface. I'd speculate that there are still more problems about to confront Sessions.

It will be interesting to learn how many discussions Sessions had with Trump about Comey and the Russian investigation after he had recused himself from the case. Certainly, the discussions they had -- including with Rosenstein -- about firing Comey, have to be closely examined. But there were certainly other talks leading up to that.

I've been watching the news, reading newspaper and internet reports, etc. There is so much, as you noted, that it seems to me it would be good to have a timeline with a section for each player's participation listed in sequence. The Canadians made such a chart of Rubin Carter's case, and it made it easier to understand.

[Samantha]

58. Yes, a timeline would be extremely helpful

The point was made today that Trump called Comey and asked him to dinner the same day, the morning of which, he had fired Sally Yates. I did not realize those two events happened on the same day until today.

btw, I was just making a small joke when I mentioned the witness protection program....

Sam

[H2O Man]

59. Right.

We should never believe a single word that comes out of the White House. Two examples are "why" Flynn was fired, and why Ms. Yates was fired. There is no evidence that Trump eventually fired Flynn because he lied to Pence, except the White House's claim. But that doesn't hold up. It wouldn't have taken 18 days. Plus, the Russians couldn't have blackmailed Flynn because he lied to Pence; it was the other, classified information that she shared with them about Flynn that was the real problem. Still, they sat on it until the media began reporting on the story. Had they not fired him, more would have been leaked within 48 hours, as Flynn had to go.

Ms. Yates' decision on the "Muslim ban" provided cover for her termination. And it surely played a role. But the decision to fire her had already been made 24 hours previous. Timing is everything.

[Ilsa]

68. He also needs to protect his savings and his wife's

standard of living and her retirement. And she might want to spend her retirement with him, not visiting a prison every other weekend.

[kentuck]

26. Today's story that he walked out of the room when Trump asked to be alone with FBI Director...

...was more proof that he is not equipped to handle the job of Attorney General. He should resign or be fired. Then he should be called to testify again under oath.

[H2O Man]

29. I liked when

Mr. Comey noted there were other reasons why Sessions would have to recuse himself, and that he couldn't discuss this publicly. I think that Sessions knows he is in trouble. And he will turn on Trump if it helps him save himself.

Overall, I thought today's hearing went great. (Well, not for John McCain.) What do you think?

[kentuck]

33. Sessions would turn on his own mother.

I don't know the details but I believe it was Sessions that introduced Carter Page to Trump? He should get out while the gettin's good. He is knee-deep in a sinking boat and doesn't have the sense to jump.

[H2O Man]

34. Yep.

Well said.

He's a self-righteous jackass.

[moonscape]

35. Or Sessions never offered to resign, but arranged for leaks that he did

in order to put some distance and, wait for it, appear principled.

[H2O Man]

38. That's possible,

and I agree that Sessions has never been principled. Buy I don't think this group is that smart. I told a friend today that Sessions never took 101 Crime: if you don't want to get caught, don't commit a crime with a big-mouthed asshole like Trump. I'm sure Sessions was pissed when Trump announced that he fired Comey over the Russian investigation. He even thought that would be popular. Sessions was in on it, and pretended it had to do with Comey being rude to Hillary. But that cover story didn't hold up long!

[canetoad]

37. That seems pretty spot on

It seems that Trump has been angry(ier) with Sessions for the last couple of weeks; coinciding with the appointment of Mueller? Does Trump want to punish Rosenstein for appointing Mueller? He could lean on Sessions to fire the Assistant AG and maybe Sessions is not coming to the party.

[H2O Man]

39. Right!

Trump's anger increased when Mueller was appointed. I'm sure he held Sessions responsible for Rosenstein's doing that. I'm sure Trump has learned that Comey and Mueller are close. Plus, it's a lot harder to attack Mueller than Comey.

[spanone]

47. K&R...

[H2O Man]

49. Thanks!

[Tommy_Carcetti]

48. Methinks "Stay strong!" doesn't mean "Hang in there!" with the cat hanging from the tree branch.

I honestly think "Stay strong!" means "You better not give me up, you bastard, or I'm taking you down with me!"

[H2O Man]

50. Exactly.

Flynn is damaged goods. If he turns on Trump -- saying, for example, that his contacts with the Russian ambassador were coordinated with Trump -- it's a case of one liar versus another liar. But if Sessions also tells a similar story, it becomes two liars against one.

Trump is used to being in control. He viewed Flynn and Sessions as loyal to him. They both were of value to him for that reason. He could reward their "good" behavior.

But that's changed. They could hold steady, and hope for an eventual pardon. Or they can follow their lawyers advice on seeking a deal with the prosecutors. Trump no longer has the type of control he desires, hence the threats.

[Hortensis]

51. My thought is that he should have gone to prison long ago.

[H2O Man]

52. I definitely agree.

[Frustratedlady]

53. Sessions never should have been nominated...

nor confirmed, nor allowed to stay once it was determined he was involved in this Russian mess. There were all kinds of flags, but he "sweet-tea'd" his way into the job by lying through his teeth. The Democrats knew it and so did the Republicans. What did he squeak by on? I don't recall the count.

[H2O Man]

56. Right.

I agree. Sessions isn't qualified to be elected or appointed to any position of authority.

[lunatica]

54. You make a very good point

Trump and all his people are not friends in the traditional understanding of that term. They're cronies more likely and as long as they get a cut of whatever they're going after they're fine with each other. And it's pretty obvious Trump isn't gloating much these days and that's only what we see in public. We hear about his rages, but we see him mostly quite composed and hiding behind a puffed up big boss exterior, albeit with the grin wiped off his face.

I'd agree with you that he's scared shitless. He knows that if he can't deliver to his minions he'll lose them. So his fear isn't about us or the outside world. It's about his circle of cronies. He believes that like a king or despot he's endowed them with powerful positions to do with as they will, but if they start rebelling because they don't want to be associated with him anymore, then he has nothing. His base is not of any comfort to him. They're just useful idiots to him.

And I'd like to add that I believe he's supremely confident that when he leaves, Pence as President, will pardon him.

[H2O Man]

60. Well said.

Trump believes that Pence will have to pardon him, because Pence was somewhat aware of what was going on in the campaign and transition.

[NCTraveler]

55. I think the narrative you are putting forward might be very accurate.

I also think you are, for the most part, spot on with respect to who Sessions is.

He has worked hard to be a part of this administration and has been confirmed for a position he never thought he would hold. I think he really thought he would hold all of the power and answer to himself, for the most part. For some reason, one of which I assume is Trump knowing how to talk to petty men, Sessions didn't understand you don't stand next to Trump without him attempting to tower over your every move. I think Sessions is absolutely furious at the moment. That ties directly in to and flows directly from the narrative you have drawn here. I can see how he would submit his resignation as a passive-aggressive move.

[H2O Man]

62. Yep.

Trump believed that Sessions was his most loyal (non-family) member in the administration. And Sessions was more than willing to play that role, when it was to his advantage. But it was not a loyalty in the sense of some of Nixon's people, who had been with him for years and years. Mitchell, for example, was willing to keep his mouth shut, even when it meant going to prison. Sessions doesn't have that level of loyalty to anyone, certainly not to Trump. As soon as he saw the Lester Holt interview, with Trump bragging about why he fired Comey, Sessions knew he was in very serious trouble. He hired legal counsel, and has been following their advice ever since.

[Madam45for2923]

61. Very interesting conjecture & if true Donald'd be furious as he likes loyalty & am sure Sessions

am sure Sessions gave it before.

[H2O Man]

63. Right.

Sessions had convinced Trump that he was 100% loyal to him. And Trump views loyalty as a one-way street -- he has no sense of obligation to anyone but himself. He believes that Sessions has an obligation to fall on his sword for Trump. But he's finding that he is not the only person who will stab a "friend" in the back.

[coeur_de_lion]

64. Veeeeery interesting!!

Mr. Water Man, how did you know to post about Sessions the night before Comey testified?

I thought you were senile?

[H2O Man]

65. Wow!

I was wondering if anyone would take note of that.

That very afternoon, I was listening to John Lennon, while playing tennis on a miniature golf course, when I ran into a man riding a scooter libby. He told me.

[coeur_de_lion]

67. You are so well connected

Always in the right place at the right time.

Lucky you! Or is it luck?

Could it be .. . . . .. carefully calculated timing?

[H2O Man]

69. I just post

the things you tell me to.

[KelleyKramer]

70. Sessions also lied on his classified clearance application

And that alone is a big time felony