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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsNo, younger Democrats, this isn't like Nixon. This is like Nixon on crack.
Edited to add:
This is what a President on crack looks like when he has a press conference
The speed of the collapse of the honeymoon and the level of infighting is moving at the speed of light
The break in at the Watergate was a single thread with a few side threads.
We are witnessing an exponential explosion of leads, gaffes, betrayal, perfidy, use of government for personal gain and possibly outright treason.
Take a look at this picture
?quality=85
It shows
1) Violation of security of classified documents
2) Use of government to advance personal assets
3) Potential violation of classified material by cyber malware: There is a very good chance that the "flashlight" download they are using for the country club guests to view the classified material has malware that is stealing the document and sending it out in real time (much greater violation than anything that Secretary Clinton did):
The Hidden Piracy threat of Flashlight Applications
https://www.wired.com/2014/10/iphone-apps/
4) Not to mention the general level of buffoonery that they are showing to the entire world
Nothing Nixon did was this haphazard and the truth is if he hadn't recorded it he would have gotten away with it.
Trump isn't just recording it he is charging people to watch him fuck it up while he is doing it and letting them record it.
TygrBright
(20,755 posts)Amaryllis
(9,524 posts)klook
(12,152 posts)jmowreader
(50,533 posts)After reading the description of this stuff, that seems plausible! Have to be wary of the side effects, though.
jmowreader
(50,533 posts)Which describes the Trump Administration to a tee.
central scrutinizer
(11,637 posts)By dragging it in here. PCP maybe
Alice11111
(5,730 posts)You get a heart.
ismnotwasm
(41,968 posts)With chronically infected abscesses
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)And of course the scope of the underlying crimes is dramatically more brazen.
Alice11111
(5,730 posts)It is worse than we even thought. Still going on. Distraction of ground troops in Syria. Maybe that is fulfilling a promise to Putin
liberal N proud
(60,332 posts)lpbk2713
(42,744 posts)Ringling Bros can no longer compete.
NoGoodNamesLeft
(2,056 posts)eom
Response to grantcart (Original post)
Ken Burch This message was self-deleted by its author.
asiliveandbreathe
(8,203 posts)or flashlights..or wristwatches.....this is beyond buffoonery..this is downright threat to Natl Sec......
flygal
(3,231 posts)tinrobot
(10,888 posts)Nixon knew how to fly the plane... well, until he crashed it.
These guys can't even ride a tricycle.
Alice11111
(5,730 posts)Embarrassing. Even his news conference now, he is still speaking as US President of fake news and his big win...carrying on about the electoral votes and what people said in the past about his winning. Obviously, he isnt capable of focusing on complex issues or taking minimal, common sense precautions, much less what would be expected by a world power.
Kimchijeon
(1,606 posts)not even potty trained
Uponthegears
(1,499 posts)There's no "on" to it.
pinboy3niner
(53,339 posts)Great caption on Guardian for this pic - "All the presidents' men"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10028643906
NRaleighLiberal
grantcart
(53,061 posts)I wonder if these guys know how much Nixon's "men" had to spend on legal fees.
pinboy3niner
(53,339 posts)LuckyLib
(6,817 posts)and it's a bus!
Ilsa
(61,690 posts)Rined penis is blurry, foreground, on right. That's most of them. Might be a good pic cover for the eventual DVD.
Alice11111
(5,730 posts)Hearts in her eyes for Trudeau, and this pic of uglies in the back
irisblue
(32,933 posts)pinboy3niner
(53,339 posts)irisblue
(32,933 posts)pinboy3niner
(53,339 posts)mcar
(42,278 posts)Last edited Tue Feb 14, 2017, 08:59 PM - Edit history (1)
With cellphones.
On edit: Nixon didn't last 8 years. More like 6.
LeftInTX
(25,154 posts)Alice11111
(5,730 posts)sheshe2
(83,669 posts)HMOG!
ginnyinWI
(17,276 posts)I'm glad this is happening before the inevitable terror attack that they are so clearly inviting to happen. We have a chance to load up the clown car and move them out!
Alice11111
(5,730 posts)and he was smart, but paranoid. These are totally incompetent, wouldnt take briefings, "Im smarter than the Generals," on and on, ad nauseum.
ginnyinWI
(17,276 posts)Dumb as a rock, and living in his own little reality--electoral college, voter fraud, inaugural attendance, and now those nasty leakers! How dare they expose all the dirt!
This is going down so much faster than I thought it would.
Alice11111
(5,730 posts)My thoughts were the same watching the presser. I cant believe the Pres of USA is still talking about this.
With all going on, and planning ground troops for Syria, N Korea launch, cruise missiles, subs...and he cant move past bloviating about details of his electoral college win. Im afraid, we are done in, unless we get rid of him now.
ginnyinWI
(17,276 posts)He can't face any reality where he is not the best, the winner, the greatest. So he makes stuff up. I'm not sure I'd even call it lying, because he thinks it is reality.
It's troubling, but as I tell everyone, the situation is too unstable to last for very long. So sit tight and pop some popcorn!
Alice11111
(5,730 posts)charlyvi
(6,537 posts)I hope.
certainot
(9,090 posts)and intimidating any republicans who might turn, making excuses all over the country to 50 mil a week
Alice11111
(5,730 posts)then. There were some rational Repubs, not ALL crazy fucking extreme RWers with no balance. The country wasnt extremely polarized as it is today.
mnmoderatedem
(3,722 posts)it's Nixon magnified 10000x.
MountainFool
(91 posts)At least on modern iPhones and Androids, there's a flashlight button that's easy to use and built into the OS. No application needed at all.
Of course, the phones could be full of malware, it's just that flashlight apps are not required.
ToxMarz
(2,163 posts)grantcart
(53,061 posts)even though there is a problem of malware tied to the flashlight app that has been widely downloaded,
we don't even know if they aren't snapping pictures as they go and all of those phones have camera capability.
MountainFool
(91 posts)Yes, of course the aids could have been live-streaming the whole thing to their blog readers (or covertly to Putin and China).
Btw, we also have zero real knowledge that he was looking at anything classified. The NY Times article references SCIF and potentially classified discussions, but for all we actually know, they just needed more light on the menu.
Given the, um, tensions between Trump and the intelligence community, they are slow to share anything secret with him. It wouldn't surprise me if they were reviewing Fox news coverage and nothing classified was being discussed.
That still leaves your #2 and #4 on the table for impeachment, which can't come soon enough.
ref: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/13/us/politics/mar-a-lago-north-korea-trump.html?_r=0
grantcart
(53,061 posts)Spicer said that they were looking at "news conference logistics". In the government system planning the department's next department picnic would get a "confidential" classification. (By the way much of the hysteria about Secretary Clinton's 8 emails that were found on her private server originate in the public's misunderstanding of the classification system. Those emails were "confidential" level information which is generally available to the public.)
In the government system even discussion about "news conference logistics" would rank a rating of "confidential". What we don't know is if Secret, Top Secret or even higher confidential levels were handled alongside the desert menu.
From the article:
But national security veterans of past administrations still expressed surprise that Mr. Trump and his staff would not have excused themselves to be able to have candid conversations about the North Korean situation and to review sensitive or classified documents.
calimary
(81,139 posts)I can remember Watergate. I remember being almost laminated to the TV. Couldn't tear myself away!
I remember at the time - thinking how mind-boggling it was to be living through that time and witnessing this kind of history. Now my children are about the same age, and I suspect they're turning this over and over and over in their own heads now.
Having a major league deja vu, except yes, the Watergate scandal was NOTHING compared to what we've got here, now, with trump world.
murielm99
(30,718 posts)I was working at my first good job after college. I worked all day and watched the reruns of the hearings on TV until I could not stay awake any longer. I bought all the Watergate books, and I still have them. I made my kids learn about Watergate, too.
There were some changes made to campaign contributions and the FEC came into being after Nixon.
We need to get rid of Citizens United and get back to being more careful. Maybe we will see some positive changes after this fiasco, if the orange monster does not blow us to kingdom come.
We need to abolish the electoral college.
We, as Democrats, need to standardize how we run our primaries. I would like closed primaries in all states.
The media needs to take a good, hard look at themselves, and we need to hold them accountable.
We need to prosecute people under laws that exist already, even if those laws have not been used in the past. These are times to break new ground and use the existing framework as it was intended.
Above all, we need to break the republican stranglehold on government. They should be considered a disgraced party until they can fix themselves. If they can't do that, then let them die as a party.
Response to calimary (Reply #65)
Corey_Baker08 This message was self-deleted by its author.
Alice11111
(5,730 posts)You get a heart. For me, reading Harriott Beecher Stowe in grade school, grounded so read a lot of history, black nanny I loved, integration of schools and all the rude parents causing problems when the kids just wanted to be friends, assacinations JFK RFK MLK, JFKs speech, "ask not....," MLKs speech and my father telling me to stay home from school and learn from MLK and the marches on tv, moon landing, MLK saying you have to have something you are willing to die for, getting in trouble for reading Betty Friedan, civil rights marches before and in college, things my grandmother taught me about equality and the inconsistency of racism and religion, college after Vietnam, LBJ, Watergate, working in politics, law school, teaching, Iraq, healthcare ...and through life, several professions, and now this...Syrian refugees, bombings by Russia, another stolen election, treason.... I just keep getting farther to the left, or the other part of the country gets farther to the right.
Response to Alice11111 (Reply #105)
Corey_Baker08 This message was self-deleted by its author.
simguy225
(80 posts)the flashlight is right next to the camera. If the camera is compromised (child's play) then you don't need a hacked flashlight app.
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)No doubt heavily-laden with malware.
Old Vet
(2,001 posts)then you got the shit with North Korea and Russia deploying a cruise missle and one of russias spy ships kicking around the east coast(WHEW) Everybodys lying about who, when, were the first to discuss Flynns call. I mean shit, trump denied knowing anything about Flynns call to Russia just a few days ago. WTF
crazycatlady
(4,492 posts)I'm trying to educate myself on him (my parents werent paying attention).
I was always wondering what is worse.
Initech
(100,043 posts)I should make a trip there and educate myself about Watergate vs what's happening right now.
mobeau69
(11,133 posts)We listened to the Erwin committee hearings on the radio until it got so big that they started running it on live tv. This was way before cable. Most amazing thing I ever lived through. The movie "All the Presidents Men" did a good job on the Post's investigation but that's not the whole story. It was all too much for one movie to cover.
murielm99
(30,718 posts)on PBS. Also, we had real television journalists in those days. Things were covered honestly for anyone who cared.
gademocrat7
(10,645 posts)Witnessed the Watergate scandal. This is infinitely worse.
triron
(21,984 posts)Old Vet
(2,001 posts)Initech
(100,043 posts)Then add in a few pharmaceutical drugs with lots of side effects like Propecia and Viagra for good measure.
coco22
(1,258 posts)I was just getting ready to mention this. Every time I see this pic I get mad as hell.
coco22
(1,258 posts)The enablers the RepubliCONS.
benld74
(9,901 posts)as I did as a HS Junior and Senior, listening(well half way) and wondering at the GALL os someone even thinking to do these things!
AND NOW THIS.
THIS SCROTUS and his cronies supreme, each ne more incompetent than the last.
THEY are going to govern us?
And their rabid followers?
Geez! Make Nixon followers look like 1st Grade Girl Scouts!
THIS is so much hairier than Nixon
So much more complacent by the Congress and Senate
So much more VILE and Crooked
I really just cannot believe it
catbyte
(34,341 posts)when did he know it?" It's taken *45 only 25 days to get there.
Now we'll see if there are any 21st Century Woodward & Bernsteins out there to keep this going for longer than 1 or 2 news cycles--THAT'S the $10B question. I'm afraid if Watergate had happened now, it would've stopped with the 5 burglars and forgotten. It wasn't 2 days ago that David Corn was tweeting about how the Trump-Kremlin story just died and there was no media interest. I guess he tweeted too soon, lol.
riverwalker
(8,694 posts)That no one is even adding suffix "gate" like they usually do with every scandal since watergate. Because this is more than just a scandal, it is shaking the foundations. With Watergate we had to wait for new developments to come once a day, in daily print newspapers, and on the 30 minute nightly network news. Each development was slowly digested. The hearings though, were on all networks all day.
No internet, or Twitter with head spinning updates by the hour back then.
pnwmom
(108,960 posts)Because then we controlled Congress and the investigation. Now we don't.
tavernier
(12,370 posts)God bless the founding fathers!!!
And fortunately...
We The People
Kashkakat v.2.0
(1,752 posts)was.... the left knew stuff about secret CIA operations, the fact that the gulf of tonkin resolution was based on a lie... and various other arcane details of the war that the general population didnt know, but I honestly dont think anyone in the left media , or the mainstream media was making stuff up. All the atrocities of the war were in living color on tv every night...there was actually investigative reporting most notably Bernstein/woodward. There was conservative media but just publications, a few commentators maybe.... nothing like the vast propaganda machine it now is. The John Birch society (closest in philsophy to the far right wing of the repub party and white nationalists of today) was considered wayyy fringe loony right wing whackos.
All this plays into whether "we the people" will be able to hold the crooks accountable.... or not. I still remember my Repub-voting dad one day telling me "maybe he (Nixon) ought to resign" simply based on the evidence he was reading in the newspaper. Im not optimistic that this stubborn 30-40% or so who believe the propaganda are going to see the light - theres enough of them to cause trouble andlive in their self contained universe and perpetuate their fantasy view of reality.
Have yall listened to RW radio lately?
leftstreet
(36,101 posts)Everyone's much more cynical now, so I don't think the reaction to the crimes today will be anything like then. Far from it in fact
Xipe Totec
(43,888 posts)Bernardo de La Paz
(48,967 posts)The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,615 posts)Trump has Bannon and Miller. They're worse.
Paladin
(28,243 posts)I never doubted Nixon's experience and ability to govern in a rational manner; I never questioned his intellect and reasoning abilities; it never appeared to me that Nixon was in it for the money or personal fame. And Tricky Dick never made me feel that my country was at existential risk on account of his misdeeds.
trump flunks every one of the aforementioned standards. I want him out of office just as soon as possible.
bluetexas
(44 posts)grantcart
(53,061 posts)BumRushDaShow
(128,535 posts)under Eisenhower, so he knew the inner workings.
jg10003
(975 posts)as a congressman, senator, and VP. Al Gore should have been the second.
BumRushDaShow
(128,535 posts)The most important part of how atrocious this is compared to Nixon CREEPs' dirty tricks.
Hekate
(90,565 posts)nini
(16,672 posts)Watergate is a picnic compared to this fiasco.
And much more riding on it for us all.
Warpy
(111,175 posts)and he believed his own bullshit, thought he was doing the best for the country.
Trump has no clue how government works, believes his own bullshit, and doesn't give a flying fuck about the country.
Those are the differences. We old folks have seen part of this movie before but certainly not all of it.
lindysalsagal
(20,592 posts)It was downright innocent compared to this crap.
mobeau69
(11,133 posts)Alice11111
(5,730 posts)Lanius
(599 posts)Considering Trump's personality, temperament, and inexperience in government, I'm surprised there are people who didn't think a disaster was going to happen with his election. It's literally amateur hour in the White House. And the head of the whole s--- storm is a malignant narcissist who doesn't know how stupid or dangerous he is.
C Moon
(12,210 posts)MrModerate
(9,753 posts)mobeau69
(11,133 posts)A lot of posters think the coverup will work and nothing will happen. But the coverup has already been blown. They'll dig the hole a little deeper until it becomes every one for themselves. Mr. Art of the Deal is going to be the "victim" of some deals he could never have imagined. I'll bet he doesn't no shit about Watergate. He was interested in becoming a big shot in NY and chasing skirts. The lesson that was taught is that it's the coverup that gets you every time. drumpf wasn't paying attention. No surprise there.
To the doubters I say "oh yea of little faith", these bastards are going down.
grantcart
(53,061 posts)HassleCat
(6,409 posts)He did not try to wreck the government, for example. On a personal level, Nixon was kind of like Trump. Presidentially speaking, they're very different.
Generic Brad
(14,272 posts)I know we share information with allies, but doesn't it get reviewed before being passed along?
grantcart
(53,061 posts)They had an interesting suggestion that we try and arrange for a bridge tournament in Burma with the North Koreans. Midge Havlerson was very adamant that you couldn't go to war with someone after you played bridge with him. Trump was heard saying "worth a try, what could it hurt?"
Jamaal510
(10,893 posts)those younger Democrats, and even I know Toupe Fiasco's administration eclipses Nixon's in corruptness.
Kimchijeon
(1,606 posts)In fact yes that about sums it up.
grantcart
(53,061 posts)HughBeaumont
(24,461 posts). . . you know, since Nixon, Agnew and his rogue team of sleazes didn't get away with their crimes, had to resign and/or face criminal prosecution and were historically admonished.
In other words, things that are never going to happen to Trump.
Reagan and Ollie North set the blueprint with Iran/Contra (which, sorry, was treason):
IOKIYAR. IACIYAD.
COME on.
I'll believe it when I see it.
Orange Lincoln Rockwell IS GOING TO GET AWAY WITH IT. BANK ON IT NOW.
mulsh
(2,959 posts)I think enough serious investigative journalists and Intelligence community people know the gravity of this situation and are avoiding cute nicknames for now.
Nixon noxiousness simmered and was perfected over many years. My great aunt and uncle were friends of the Nixons before he went into politics. They told me Pat was lovely but Dick was a lousy card cheat. Which summed up his character nicely. He'd cheat in friendly games. Neither of them were surprised when Watergate hit, "It's in his bones" said my great uncle.
don has always been a grifter and a con man but was smart enough to stick to screwing people in real estate and licensing deals and steer clear of running for any office. He's way out of his league and has been since shortly before he rode down that escalator in 2015.
On the a positive note these antics illustrated the danger of "running government more like a business"
grantcart
(53,061 posts)gopiscrap
(23,726 posts)unblock
(52,126 posts)watergate seems quaint compared to the routine crimes of republicans these days, never mind the donnie debacle.
there's zero doubt that if watergate had happened today, the president would have easily gotten away with it. foxnews would have equated it with hillary something or other, everyone does it, etc. nixon could have admitted it all, openly pardoned the original burglars himself, and carried out the remainder of his term, damaged no worse than clinton was at the end of his second term.
back then, the media had a sense of responsibility, democrats controlled congress, and there was a bipartisan sense of duty to country first, party second. even republicans couldn't defend nixon.
today, thanks to gerrymandering, hyperpartisanship, extremely biased media on the republican side, etc., republicans can barely grumble about donnie without being accused of treason, or at the very least, being threatened with getting primaried.
our institutions are not at all strong, especially when control is in the hands of people who put party well before country.
much as we might hope otherwise, republicans *will* get away with this. oh, donnie himself, whatever, maybe he'll get forced out, maybe they'll cut a deal -- resign for no jail time -- maybe. but, big deal. we'll have president pence or ryan or some other republican and these evil bastards *will still control all three branches of government*!
the threat to our democracy is *way*, way deeper than simply donnie himself. getting rid of him is a small step in the right direction, but most likely, if we succeed in that, we'll celebrate our victory and relax and let the republicans continue the long march toward fascism. the donnie saga will be but a bump in the road.
Mickju
(1,797 posts)Response to grantcart (Original post)
Corey_Baker08 This message was self-deleted by its author.
Hekate
(90,565 posts)...spot on.
bigbrother05
(5,995 posts)It's like these nimrods have taken all the worst things from previous GOP transitions and gone into overdrive.
Also, they seem to have gone out of their way to find the most toxic cabinet picks possible just to piss us off. At this pace, what will they do to top the Pentagon Papers and Iran-Contra?
Javaman
(62,504 posts)don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of nixon, but at least he created the EPA and earth day.
Alice11111
(5,730 posts)steve2470
(37,457 posts)It absolutely blows my mind that nothing serious has happened yet about that display of confidential documents, maps and conversation at a PUBLIC DINNER venue! If Obama had done that, there would have been howls for impeachment, hanging, you name it!
I hope the CIA takes him down with leaks. The FBI. Someone, and soon!
VOX
(22,976 posts)"God damn it, get in and get those files. Blow the safe and get it. That's Nixon, verbatim, from one of his vast library of self-incriminating tapes, which catalog the ramblings and edicts of a man tightrope-walking on the final tortured thread of his own sanity.
Nixon on African Americans: "What has to happen is they have to be, frankly, inbred. And, you just, thats the only thing thats going to do it."
Nixon on Jews: I dont want any Jew at that dinner who didnt support us in that campaign. Is that clear? No Jew who did not support us.
Clearly, Trump is an immediate and virulent threat to U.S. institutions, and must be forced out ASAP, but I cannot throw a blanket of compassion around Nixon, or view any part of his administration with some form of nostalgia.
Both men were/are very sick; Trump's psychopathology drives him to seek self-glorification. Nixon's paranoia was steeped in secrecy. Neither had any regard for the truth.
http://host.madison.com/ct/news/opinion/column/woodward-and-bernstein-nixon-s-crimes-were-worse-than-we/article_c9664e56-b3f8-11e1-bc67-0019bb2963f4.html
<snip>
[Sen. Sam] Ervins answer to his own question [What was Watergate?] hints at the magnitude of Watergate: To destroy, insofar as the presidential election of 1972 was concerned, the integrity of the process by which the president of the United States is nominated and elected. Yet Watergate was far more than that. At its most virulent, Watergate was a brazen and daring assault, led by Nixon himself, against the heart of American democracy: the Constitution, our system of free elections, the rule of law.
<snip>
Nixons crimes were worse than we knew
CARL BERNSTEIN and BOB WOODWARD
The Washington Post, 6/12/2012
<snip>
An early assignment was to destroy the reputation of Daniel Ellsberg, who had provided the Pentagon Papers, a secret history of the Vietnam War, to the news media in 1971. Publication of the documents in The New York Times, The Washington Post and eventually other newspapers had sent Nixon into rants and rages, recorded on his tapes, about Ellsberg, the anti-war movement, the press, Jews, the American left and liberals in Congress all of whom he conflated. Though Ellsberg was already under indictment and charged with espionage, the team headed by Hunt and Liddy broke into the office of his psychiatrist, seeking information that might smear Ellsberg and undermine his credibility in the anti-war movement.
You cant drop it, Bob, Nixon told Haldeman on June 29, 1971. You cant let the Jew steal that stuff and get away with it. You understand?
He went on: People dont trust these Eastern establishment people. Hes Harvard. Hes a Jew. You know, and hes an arrogant intellectual.
Nixons anti-Semitic rages were well-known to those who worked most closely with him, including some aides who were Jewish. As we reported in our 1976 book, The Final Days, he would tell his deputies, including Kissinger, that the Jewish cabal is out to get me. In a July 3, 1971, conversation with Haldeman, he said: The government is full of Jews. Second, most Jews are disloyal. You know what I mean? You have a Garment (White House counsel Leonard Garment) and a Kissinger and, frankly, a Safire (presidential speechwriter William Safire), and, by God, theyre exceptions. But Bob, generally speaking, you cant trust the bastards. They turn on you.
<snip>
grantcart
(53,061 posts)it took 5 years for Nixon to do what Trump has done in weeks
Skittles
(153,122 posts)this current fucking incompetent nitwit clearly is NOT