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C Moon

(12,188 posts)
Mon Aug 15, 2016, 02:48 AM Aug 2016

Sun is setting on California's Daylight Saving's Time...

Bill to end daylight saving time passes California committee

With little debate, a bill to end California’s observance of daylight saving time cleared its first committee on Monday.

Assembly Bill 385 could make California the third state not to observe daylight saving time, in addition to Hawaii and Arizona. If approved by a two-thirds majority of both houses of the Legislature and signed by Gov. Jerry Brown, it would put a measure on the ballot asking voters whether or not the state should eliminate the practice.

Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article83558137.html#storylink=cpy

http://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article83558137.html

-----------------------

I applaud this (and actually wrote my senator and congressperson a couple years ago about stopping DST), but I hope they consider keeping the set time in the DST hours: I don't look forward to a 4:40am sunrise in June (DST makes it 5:40am).

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Sun is setting on California's Daylight Saving's Time... (Original Post) C Moon Aug 2016 OP
Excellent! SunSeeker Aug 2016 #1
An idle mind is the devil's workshop. nolabels Aug 2016 #3
I agree pokerfan Aug 2016 #2
I agree with this move, and hope it spreads nationwide. n/t Tarheel_Dem Aug 2016 #4
Hell no Travis_0004 Aug 2016 #27
That's what I hope they do: I don't want a 4:40am summer sunrise or a 7:30am surnrise in the winter. C Moon Aug 2016 #36
Agree completely!!!!! etherealtruth Aug 2016 #29
Damn. montana_hazeleyes Aug 2016 #5
+1! eom BlueMTexpat Aug 2016 #8
I love it too! wcast Aug 2016 #26
You are not alone. Dark n Stormy Knight Aug 2016 #55
I agree! moose65 Aug 2016 #62
The big complaint isn't about keeping the time an hour ahead—I'm all for keeping the DST time hours. C Moon Aug 2016 #64
But we don't really "lose" an hour! moose65 Aug 2016 #66
If that works for you, that's great. But it obviously isn't that simple for the rest of us. C Moon Aug 2016 #67
DST or Bust Dems2002 Aug 2016 #6
Oh, so you want to go where its cooler on those long hot days in the summer. Jim Beard Aug 2016 #12
Gambell, AK is the place for you discntnt_irny_srcsm Aug 2016 #13
I was in Stockholm for the summer solstice this year. Sunset 1030, sunrise 330. I loved it! Vattel Aug 2016 #14
Was in Kirkines last year Dems2002 Aug 2016 #41
To the thread parent Jim Beard Aug 2016 #7
"BTW, I hat(e) and always have hated DST" BumRushDaShow Aug 2016 #9
I third that. MicaelS Aug 2016 #20
The whole concept of Standard Time 1939 Aug 2016 #43
Thanks. I remember some about the railroads involved in setting up Jim Beard Aug 2016 #63
This will be sucky news for wirking folks in CA SleeplessinSoCal Aug 2016 #10
PLEEEZE! If CA does it, this could encourage other states to do it. DST was... TreasonousBastard Aug 2016 #11
DST was for farmers? rurallib Aug 2016 #15
Sorry, my memory was faulty... TreasonousBastard Aug 2016 #17
I was thinking it may be different for farmers in other areas rurallib Aug 2016 #18
Generally, on the two farms we had, the actual time was completely Glassunion Aug 2016 #21
Your memory wasn't faulty BumRushDaShow Aug 2016 #25
Those farmer's myths usually turn out to be bunk kcr Aug 2016 #31
That article I linked to BumRushDaShow Aug 2016 #33
What a shock kcr Aug 2016 #49
Farmers and drive-in movie operators would the ones to oppose DST 1939 Aug 2016 #44
It's periodically talked about here in Ireland, so this might help bring it up again. OnDoutside Aug 2016 #19
Other states have done it. former9thward Aug 2016 #32
Oregon and Washington would probably follow suit gratuitous Aug 2016 #40
So, would this mean that during the more-than-half the year TDale313 Aug 2016 #16
I would love to quit LWolf Aug 2016 #22
Yes! DST sucks. hunter Aug 2016 #23
But I gotta get up and slop the hogs and milk the cows, says no one. NightWatcher Aug 2016 #24
DST is not designed for farmers Travis_0004 Aug 2016 #28
The "energy savings" is a myth too. BumRushDaShow Aug 2016 #34
I think you do use fewer lights on a dark morning than you do on a dark evening. 1939 Aug 2016 #45
Not me BumRushDaShow Aug 2016 #48
Good. I always struggle with sleep on DST and now that it's nearly 8 months out of the year, kestrel91316 Aug 2016 #30
The problem is the clocks The2ndWheel Aug 2016 #35
:D C Moon Aug 2016 #37
I like DST. I wish it were all year NT Ex Lurker Aug 2016 #38
I love DST, I wish we had it year-round. In Chicago it can be pitch dark by 5pm in the winter. tritsofme Aug 2016 #39
Me, too. Iris Aug 2016 #42
Me three... Tikki Aug 2016 #54
OTOH, getting up in the pitch dark every morning SUCKS! Adrahil Aug 2016 #47
So does coming home in the pitch dark at night Warpy Aug 2016 #53
Meh... once I'm awake, the dark doesn't bother me. Adrahil Aug 2016 #58
I agree. Stop the clock madness! Adrahil Aug 2016 #46
People who don't like DST don't seem to have jobs taught_me_patience Aug 2016 #50
I hope not. Xithras Aug 2016 #51
I'd be happy to keep DST year round, also Warpy Aug 2016 #52
I'd always wondered about those time zones. Pretty lame. C Moon Aug 2016 #57
I suppose one imaginary measure of time is just as valid as another... LanternWaste Aug 2016 #56
How bout this? moose65 Aug 2016 #59
+1 C Moon Aug 2016 #61
Good! Now, maybe Indiana DemonGoddess Aug 2016 #60
I like DST. Maybe we should just stay on DST all year long. JustABozoOnThisBus Aug 2016 #65
I agree and it appears most here feel the same. C Moon Aug 2016 #68

SunSeeker

(51,378 posts)
1. Excellent!
Mon Aug 15, 2016, 03:09 AM
Aug 2016

Messing with my clocks all over the house every 6 months is a pain; and it's depressing how early it was getting dark in the winter.

nolabels

(13,133 posts)
3. An idle mind is the devil's workshop.
Mon Aug 15, 2016, 03:23 AM
Aug 2016

Or something like that. Anyway sometimes i don't set all of mine back or forward, whichever the case might be. Yea it's the pain in the ass factor but it also keeps me thinking and remembering, is that one on daylight savings time or not. On a side note, the clock in the Civic is twenty-three minutes fast. I leave it that way to help keep me being on time for my job. It's been that way for a couple years now

C Moon

(12,188 posts)
36. That's what I hope they do: I don't want a 4:40am summer sunrise or a 7:30am surnrise in the winter.
Mon Aug 15, 2016, 04:00 PM
Aug 2016

wcast

(595 posts)
26. I love it too!
Mon Aug 15, 2016, 12:16 PM
Aug 2016

Plus it is only 4 months of standard time here in PA, November to March. I say go the other way, keep DST and get rid of standard time.

Dark n Stormy Knight

(9,760 posts)
55. You are not alone.
Tue Aug 16, 2016, 04:39 PM
Aug 2016

I love it too! I much prefer to have more daylight at the end of the day than at the beginning. I'd be happy to have it year-round.

There are points for an against it, which vary from person to person, but I hate when people act like the previously standard non-Daylight-Saving-Time system was somehow more "natural" than DST. It's all a man-made construct.

moose65

(3,164 posts)
62. I agree!
Tue Aug 16, 2016, 08:07 PM
Aug 2016

Maybe I'm weird or something, but I've never understood people who claim that DST "messes with them" or something similar. Time is arbitrary anyway...at some point Standard Time was created by humans. The time on a clock isn't a natural thing. I prefer DST myself. I love those long summer evenings!

C Moon

(12,188 posts)
64. The big complaint isn't about keeping the time an hour ahead—I'm all for keeping the DST time hours.
Wed Aug 17, 2016, 03:39 AM
Aug 2016

The issue is adjusting to the the damn clock twice per year—losing an hour of sleep every spring.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/11/health/daylight-saving-time-health-effects/
Plus, my dog is confused by it.

moose65

(3,164 posts)
66. But we don't really "lose" an hour!
Wed Aug 17, 2016, 01:20 PM
Aug 2016

There is really no time lost - just the artificial time on a clock. I just don't understand it, I guess, since the time change has never really affected me. I just go to bed an hour earlier!

Dems2002

(509 posts)
6. DST or Bust
Mon Aug 15, 2016, 04:39 AM
Aug 2016

I absolutely do not want to lose DST. I'm more than happy to keep it all year round, but I do not want to lose my 8pm light in the summer. I love it. I'd actually enjoy moving someplace even further north where it stays light after 9pm or 10pm.

discntnt_irny_srcsm

(18,470 posts)
13. Gambell, AK is the place for you
Mon Aug 15, 2016, 06:40 AM
Aug 2016
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambell,_Alaska

According to the Solar vs Time Zone map, its about 2 hours behind what solar time would be during standard time which makes it about 3 hours back during DST. It's not that hot either.



Here's a pic of the airport:

Dems2002

(509 posts)
41. Was in Kirkines last year
Tue Aug 16, 2016, 01:29 AM
Aug 2016

I was in Norway last year for the very first day of the midnight sun. And I was in Alaska a few years ago on the solstice. Love it. I am a night owl so it's amazing.

 

Jim Beard

(2,535 posts)
7. To the thread parent
Mon Aug 15, 2016, 04:46 AM
Aug 2016

If they vote against DST, the time will stay at the original settings year round.

There are so many more variables. I live on the western edge of the Central time zone on the long N/S Texas New Mexico Border where by geography and the Time Zone borders, the southern border of the Central Time zone is so much longer, it is almost 2 hours long. I add that most of that area is flatter than Kansas so there is no physical obstruction to make it it dark earlier.

If you live in a heavily wooded area mountainous area, the time darkness could be the same on both edges of the time zone.

Maybe we should just use our cell phones with a superdooper app that will calculate what time it is where I am standing.

BTW, I hat and always have hated DST

" target="_blank">Time Zones

1939

(1,683 posts)
43. The whole concept of Standard Time
Tue Aug 16, 2016, 05:44 AM
Aug 2016

was developed by the railroad industry. Prior to that, each locality set their own time by solar observation. Some agreed authority would determine high noon and set the "master clock" for the town and everybody would adjust their watches and clocks by that time. Early short railroads would decide which clock on their route was the "regulating" clock and set their schedule accordingly. The "railroad time" for arrivals and departures from Podunk might vary several minutes from the local Podunk time. A longer railroad journey which required several changes of rail lines en route required a detailed mastery of the concept of longitude. The railroads finally got together and developed the idea of dividing the US into four standard time zones. A lot of fundy preachers at the time would fulminate against the use of "railroad time" versus "God's time".

SleeplessinSoCal

(8,998 posts)
10. This will be sucky news for wirking folks in CA
Mon Aug 15, 2016, 05:49 AM
Aug 2016

Outdoor living is paramount in CA and taking away daylight hours after work is a negative. My sister will be extremely pissed off.

TreasonousBastard

(43,049 posts)
11. PLEEEZE! If CA does it, this could encourage other states to do it. DST was...
Mon Aug 15, 2016, 05:51 AM
Aug 2016

for farmers years ago and they don't need it any more.

rurallib

(62,346 posts)
15. DST was for farmers?
Mon Aug 15, 2016, 07:48 AM
Aug 2016

sure doesn't jibe with my memories of farmers refusing to change clocks and screaming every Memorial Day when we changed time in Iowa. "God's Time" was a frequently used phrase around here.

rurallib

(62,346 posts)
18. I was thinking it may be different for farmers in other areas
Mon Aug 15, 2016, 08:03 AM
Aug 2016

Maybe the varieties of products in a California for instance would lend itself to DST better than the midwest.

We are kind of monoculture out here - we grow corn and soybeans for the most part and raise some beef, chicken, lot of pork and turkeys. So not a lot of variety that probably lends itself to a conformity on issues.

When I was young, we had county choice on DST, so we had different counties on DST - mostly along the Mississippi - and different start and stop dates. Man that was a hoot and a half.

At that time our legislature was mostly farmers and they kept trying to kill DST totally. I am kind of surprised we have it now to be frank.

Glassunion

(10,201 posts)
21. Generally, on the two farms we had, the actual time was completely
Mon Aug 15, 2016, 10:00 AM
Aug 2016

inconsequential. We simply started working about an hour before sunrise, and would finish up just before dinner. Our schedule followed the sun, not the time on the clock.

BumRushDaShow

(127,317 posts)
25. Your memory wasn't faulty
Mon Aug 15, 2016, 12:07 PM
Aug 2016

It was widely taught because that is the bull I always heard in school and while growing up too -

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/five-myths-about-daylight-saving-time/2015/03/06/970092d4-c2c1-11e4-9271-610273846239_story.html?utm_term=.f7707abf8d7e

And I was a junior high victim of the brief but ridiculous change to DST to start in January (1974), where as a city kid, I had no yellow school bus to pick me up at my door and had to catch public transit (a regional rail train and then a transit bus) to get to school and needed a flashlight to walk to the train station every morning. The street lighting back then was no where like you see today (which is often iffy at times too).

BumRushDaShow

(127,317 posts)
33. That article I linked to
Mon Aug 15, 2016, 02:25 PM
Aug 2016

said that the biggest pushers of this were the Chamber of Commerces and retailers. Surprise surprise!

kcr

(15,300 posts)
49. What a shock
Tue Aug 16, 2016, 02:34 PM
Aug 2016

Now that almost never turns out to be a myth. You can pretty much count on that for a reason

1939

(1,683 posts)
44. Farmers and drive-in movie operators would the ones to oppose DST
Tue Aug 16, 2016, 05:48 AM
Aug 2016

The origin of DST was to save electricity generating coal and was initiated during the two world wars. Factory workers found that they really enjoyed the extra hour of daylight in the summer and pushed for its continuance after WWII.

gratuitous

(82,849 posts)
40. Oregon and Washington would probably follow suit
Mon Aug 15, 2016, 04:32 PM
Aug 2016

Or so I would hope.

When I was (ahem) younger, the changeover didn't affect me in any noticeable way. One day was pretty much like another. But as I've gotten to later life, that one hour of difference seems to have a terrible effect on my circadian rhythms for days. It might also be the difference in growing up just south of the 45th parallel and now living just north of it. As the days lengthen or shorten at the time of the solstices, I'm more aware of the time added to daylight or darkness day by day.

TDale313

(7,820 posts)
16. So, would this mean that during the more-than-half the year
Mon Aug 15, 2016, 07:55 AM
Aug 2016

That the rest of the country observed DST we'd actually be four hours earlier than the East Coast? That'd be weird too.

LWolf

(46,179 posts)
22. I would love to quit
Mon Aug 15, 2016, 10:00 AM
Aug 2016

messing with my body clock twice a year and pick a single time to abide by. I personally prefer DST, but I'd embrace either, if we could just stop switching.

The switch to standard time in the fall is the death of light for the rest of the year. It's dark when I leave for work either way for 6 months out of the year, but on DST, I get a bit of light when I get home, at least until December. On standard time, I only see my home in the light on weekends.

hunter

(38,264 posts)
23. Yes! DST sucks.
Mon Aug 15, 2016, 10:08 AM
Aug 2016

It would make more sense for any workplaces that benefit from DST to change their hours. Changing everyone's clocks for the benefit of a few is not fair.

 

Travis_0004

(5,417 posts)
28. DST is not designed for farmers
Mon Aug 15, 2016, 12:22 PM
Aug 2016

In fact, since the sun rises later, farmers are more likely to work in the dark, or they have to get up later.

DST saves electricity, and allows for more daylight hours after work and school, which allows people to be more active.

BumRushDaShow

(127,317 posts)
34. The "energy savings" is a myth too.
Mon Aug 15, 2016, 02:34 PM
Aug 2016
3. It helps us conserve energy.

Congress passed the Energy Policy Act — which extended DST by a month — in 2005, ostensibly to save four more weeks’ worth of energy. “An annual rite of spring, daylight saving time is also a matter of energy conservation. By having a little more natural daylight at our disposal, we can help keep daily energy costs down for families and businesses,” Rep. Fred Upton (R-Mich.), who co-sponsored the legislation along with then-Rep. Markey, said in a 2013 statement.

But in a follow-up study on the effects of the extension, the California Energy Commission found the energy savings to be a paltry 0.18 percent at best. Other studies have indicated that people may use less of some kinds of energy, such as electric lights, but more of others. More productive daylight hours might be meant to get you off the couch and recreating outside, but they’re just as likely to lead to increased air-conditioner use if you stay home and gas guzzling if you don’t.

A study in Indiana actually found a slight increase in energy use after the entire state adopted DST (for years, only some counties followed it), costing the state’s residents about $9 million; the researchers believed that more air conditioning in the evening was largely to blame. That’s a far cry from the $7 million that Indiana state representatives had hoped residents would save in electricity costs.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/five-myths-about-daylight-saving-time/2015/03/06/970092d4-c2c1-11e4-9271-610273846239_story.html?utm_term=.f97b977f6d77


The Indiana study is an interesting indicator given that they were one of the few that didn't fully adopt DST (and when it did, it was only recently - just 10 years ago).

With it being darker in the morning, there is this fantasy that people are sleeping in and no one is up using lights. You just shifted the light usage from the afternoon to the morning.

1939

(1,683 posts)
45. I think you do use fewer lights on a dark morning than you do on a dark evening.
Tue Aug 16, 2016, 05:52 AM
Aug 2016

You get up in the dark bedroom and stagger into the bathroom using only the little light over the sink. You go into the kitchen and use only the light there. Then you go to work. In the evening, you have lights on all over the house.

BumRushDaShow

(127,317 posts)
48. Not me
Tue Aug 16, 2016, 01:10 PM
Aug 2016

I use the same amount of light day after day because I have used lamp timers for decades. And anyone living in a densely populated urban area or in an apartment with little access to sunlight, is going to put lights on regardless of whether it is standard or daylight savings time.

The bigger issue, which has somewhat been brought up in this thread, is that the outdoor light availability is not only going to vary depending on where you are in a timezone region, but also your latitude. For those who live in the furthest north of the CONUS, the amount of daylight can approach 20 hours in summer and only 4 in winter (where I live in Philly, the longest day length is about 15 hours in summer and only 9 in winter). I remember a couple of trips to Detroit in the summer (which is on the western edge of ET) and was surprised to see the sun setting at like 9:30pm, where here in Philly, it was setting almost an hour earlier. I think this may have been a similar issue with Indiana being on that western edge of ET too. And in places like Hawai'i, which is closer to the equator than the CONUS, the day length varies very little, which is probably why they don't use DST.

There has been much written about "SAD" (Seasonable Affective Disorder), where "light therapy" is often suggested, so you have some people using high intensity lights in fall through winter and into spring.

So wholesale ascribing some "benefit" to continually changing the time and messing up sleep routines, is disingenuous when you look at all the variables!

 

kestrel91316

(51,666 posts)
30. Good. I always struggle with sleep on DST and now that it's nearly 8 months out of the year,
Mon Aug 15, 2016, 12:43 PM
Aug 2016

that is no small problem.

tritsofme

(17,325 posts)
39. I love DST, I wish we had it year-round. In Chicago it can be pitch dark by 5pm in the winter.
Mon Aug 15, 2016, 04:14 PM
Aug 2016

I'd take the extra hour of light at night in a heartbeat.

DST is great for the summer nights where it stays light until around 9pm.

At least in this part of the country, I think DST is great.

Tikki

(14,539 posts)
54. Me three...
Tue Aug 16, 2016, 04:37 PM
Aug 2016

Love to see the sun at 8:00~9:00 p.m. still poking around.


Makes Summer special...

Tikki

 

Adrahil

(13,340 posts)
47. OTOH, getting up in the pitch dark every morning SUCKS!
Tue Aug 16, 2016, 08:55 AM
Aug 2016

I live in the far west of the Eastern zone, and from September to April is dark when I wake up. Permanent DST would mean the sun doesn't come up until after 8 AM for nearly 3 months out of the year. Ugh.

Warpy

(110,913 posts)
53. So does coming home in the pitch dark at night
Tue Aug 16, 2016, 04:30 PM
Aug 2016

which is what happened in Boston. Standard time was brutal there and is through most of the northern part of the country.

 

Adrahil

(13,340 posts)
58. Meh... once I'm awake, the dark doesn't bother me.
Tue Aug 16, 2016, 05:27 PM
Aug 2016

It's the getting out of bed in the dark that bugs me.

Goddammed seasons.

 

taught_me_patience

(5,477 posts)
50. People who don't like DST don't seem to have jobs
Tue Aug 16, 2016, 04:13 PM
Aug 2016

where they get home at 7:30. Yeah... I like the extra hour of sunlight when I get home so that I can play with the kids a bit.

Xithras

(16,191 posts)
51. I hope not.
Tue Aug 16, 2016, 04:26 PM
Aug 2016

No DST means that the sun will rise earlier in the morning and set earlier in the evening. Daylight is generally more useful in the evening (in the morning you're typically getting ready for work, so you can't really make use of it).

Warpy

(110,913 posts)
52. I'd be happy to keep DST year round, also
Tue Aug 16, 2016, 04:28 PM
Aug 2016

I hate the time change in the winter even though I can largely ignore it since I'm retired. It sill gives me fewer hours of afternoon daylight during which I can drive and do errands. I can drive at night in an emergency, I just don't like it since I don't see well enough.

Standard Time is fucking depressing, it feels like entering a long, dark tunnel that lasts for months. There is no earthly reason to change back to it. Just realize the time zones as set up were completely arbitrary and keep DST year round.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
56. I suppose one imaginary measure of time is just as valid as another...
Tue Aug 16, 2016, 04:40 PM
Aug 2016

I suppose one imaginary measure of time is just as valid as another... or just as valid as separating it into two (or more) blocks. Or just as invalid.

It's all magical thinking regardless, and no doubt-- our personal (rather than collective) biases are formed more by individual conveniences than any practical consideration in the case of DST.

moose65

(3,164 posts)
59. How bout this?
Tue Aug 16, 2016, 06:06 PM
Aug 2016

Split the difference. At the next time change, we fall back 30 minutes and leave it that way all the time.

DemonGoddess

(4,640 posts)
60. Good! Now, maybe Indiana
Tue Aug 16, 2016, 06:06 PM
Aug 2016

can revert back to no DST, like it was for most of the state for a very long time. I HATE DST. Really screws me up.

JustABozoOnThisBus

(23,283 posts)
65. I like DST. Maybe we should just stay on DST all year long.
Wed Aug 17, 2016, 05:43 AM
Aug 2016

All the advantages of DST (later sunset), without the semiannual jet lag.

C Moon

(12,188 posts)
68. I agree and it appears most here feel the same.
Wed Aug 17, 2016, 01:46 PM
Aug 2016

I just wrote Governor Brown and told him this.
I plan on writing the authors of the bill, as well.
It's doubtful it will do any good, but what the hell.

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