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H2O Man

(73,308 posts)
Tue Jan 5, 2016, 11:54 PM Jan 2016

Oregon vs Wounded Knee

On February 27, 1973, about 200 members of the American Indian Movement (AIM) began an occupation of Wounded Knee, The seventy-one day action, which gained international media attention, was an important chapter in our nation’s history. It was, of course, highly symbolic of the nature of US-Indian relations, and took place in a hamlet near where the massacre of over 200 Lakota people occurred on December 29, 1890.

A central issue was the relationship between Native American people and the land that they inhabited. It was as important in 1973, as it had been in 1890. Indeed, the distinctions between the manner in which various people relate to the environment -- the land, the water,and the air -- remains one of the most significant conflicts in our society today.

It is worth noting that in 1973, President Richard Nixon moved to have the United States Army play a central role in the non-Indian response to AIM’s occupation of what was and is, by all legal definitions, Indian territory.

The US military and para-military supporters had state-of-the-art (of killing) automatic weapons, machine guns, an estimated 130,000 rounds of ammunition, helicopters, and more. People suffered and died. Federal charges would be brought against two important AIM leaders, Dennis Banks and Russell Means.

The jury that heard the case would vote 12-0 the pair were “not guilty” on the central charge of conspiracy. Before they could address the other, lesser charges, one juror had a stroke, and was unable to continue. The US government was unwilling to accept any 11-0 judgments, and sought a new trial. But the judge dismissed the case, based upon unconstitutional government misconduct.

Douglas Brinkley’s book of White House transcripts, “The Nixon Tapes; 1973” documents the intensity of Richard Nixon’s advocating for a military solution to this conflict. Numerous other sources document how Nixon selected Al Haig to take charge of the military operation, and its tragic outcome.

I understand and fully appreciate people’s strong ties to the land they live upon. This seems to be particularly true when families have lived in an area for multiple generations. More, both the American Revolutionary War, and the infamous Anti-Rent War of the 1800s, were largely or entirely rooted in people’s relationship to land. Indeed, the disconnect between people and the environment -- while it creates numerous very serious problems -- appears to prevent many people from standing up for their rights as citizens of this country.

When I say this, I in no way intend to express approval of the current crisis, where the terrorists are occupying federal land in Oregon. While I am fully convinced that there is a definite need for public demonstrations -- including civil disobedience in some instances -- I know that the non-violent tactics of Gandhi and King are essential. And I know that our relationship with the land, water, and air is worth our accepting the consequences of such non-violent activities.

I mentioned the Wounded Knee incident for two reasons. First, as many intelligent people have correctly noted, too often the government’s response to potential conflicts is determined by the “race” or ethnic identity of those they identify as “the enemy.” (While discussing Oregon with my daughter this afternoon, I asked, “Can you imagine if this involved Black Lives Matter?” She responded, “No, I really can’t. A lot of my friends are actively involved with Black Lives Matter. And none of them would ever think about carrying a weapon to a public demonstration.”)

Second, when we consider Nixon’s vile reaction, including his ordering a military response, we have a preview of how several of the current republican candidates will respond to those attempting to do nothing other than exercise their constitutional rights, as defined by Amendment 1. And that’s something we all should be paying close attention to. And I say that, fully aware that those of us who have been active participants in pro-environmental issues -- such as the struggle to prevent “fracking” -- are already all too familiar with.

Peace,
H2O Man

34 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Oregon vs Wounded Knee (Original Post) H2O Man Jan 2016 OP
Did AIM take hostages? exboyfil Jan 2016 #1
No. H2O Man Jan 2016 #2
You are wrong. Snobblevitch Jan 2016 #6
Also the Gildersleeves exboyfil Jan 2016 #8
Respectfully disagree. H2O Man Jan 2016 #10
I know the man personally. Snobblevitch Jan 2016 #31
Right. H2O Man Jan 2016 #32
Wounded Knee also happened for an actual reason Nevernose Jan 2016 #3
Exactly! H2O Man Jan 2016 #4
Thank you, my dear H20 Man, for your clear lucid prose on these happenings. CaliforniaPeggy Jan 2016 #5
Thanks, Buddy! H2O Man Jan 2016 #12
I see no similarity Go Vols Jan 2016 #7
Right. H2O Man Jan 2016 #13
I thought I remembered that ending peacefully hfojvt Jan 2016 #9
Good point. H2O Man Jan 2016 #15
he somehow got elected though hfojvt Jan 2016 #29
He was "selected." H2O Man Jan 2016 #30
Thanks for another great post, H2O Man. Scuba Jan 2016 #11
Thanks, Scuba. H2O Man Jan 2016 #16
Thank you for this excellent piece. cali Jan 2016 #14
Thank you, cali! H2O Man Jan 2016 #18
Thanks, H. Your voice here is so informative and valuable cali Jan 2016 #20
While it is not H2O Man Jan 2016 #24
MOVE in Philly, The Branch Davidians in Waco, and other incidents changed law enforcement tactics. aikoaiko Jan 2016 #17
Good point. H2O Man Jan 2016 #19
Reminds me a lot of Kent State in that way. aikoaiko Jan 2016 #21
You raise another H2O Man Jan 2016 #22
The problem with considering MOVE analogous jberryhill Jan 2016 #28
Hey, that's my birthday. bigwillq Jan 2016 #23
It was also H2O Man Jan 2016 #25
I was up there (Pine Ridge) a couple years ago. progressoid Jan 2016 #26
Yep. H2O Man Jan 2016 #27
Thanks for a very thoughtful postR malaise Jan 2016 #33
Thank you! H2O Man Jan 2016 #34

exboyfil

(17,857 posts)
1. Did AIM take hostages?
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 12:01 AM
Jan 2016

That would elicit a different kind of response than what would be appropriate in Oregon.

A closer parallel (though not involving federal considerations) would be MOVE in Philadelphia.

H2O Man

(73,308 posts)
2. No.
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 12:04 AM
Jan 2016

Although the government claimed that AIM took hostages, this was very simply not true.Any/all of the folks at Wounded Knee were free to leave, if they wanted to. But they were not only comfortable with AIM and its supporters (though mighty uncomfortable with the military attack), but they tended to be very supportive of AIM's cause.

Snobblevitch

(1,958 posts)
6. You are wrong.
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 12:14 AM
Jan 2016

I know a person who was taken as a hostage. He was an employee of the USPS. They tied him to a chair for three days. They made him sit there in his own excrement. They did give him water.

H2O Man

(73,308 posts)
10. Respectfully disagree.
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 12:42 AM
Jan 2016

I've known several of the people involved -- both Indian and non-Indian -- and I believe them. At the same time, I respect your right to believe whatever you want.

H2O Man

(73,308 posts)
32. Right.
Thu Jan 7, 2016, 09:13 PM
Jan 2016

I'm not questioning your accuracy or honestly. I believe you. But I know people who were there, as well.

Nevernose

(13,081 posts)
3. Wounded Knee also happened for an actual reason
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 12:07 AM
Jan 2016

These morons are unable to articulate any actual reasons for what they're doing. They've said things about the Constitution, but don't seem to know what's in it. I'm honestly kind of confused, and I grew up with these Sagebrush Rebellion whack jobs.

We know it started because some ranchers were afraid they'd get caught poaching, so they set a wildfire that almost killed the witness against them and ruined 140 acres. And that was just the FIRST fire.

CaliforniaPeggy

(149,296 posts)
5. Thank you, my dear H20 Man, for your clear lucid prose on these happenings.
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 12:11 AM
Jan 2016

I can add nothing, except K&R.

hfojvt

(37,573 posts)
9. I thought I remembered that ending peacefully
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 12:34 AM
Jan 2016

and it seems I was right, but there was a whole bunch of gunfire exchanged for a while. Wiki seems to tell it briefly. Only five casualties in the end, including one apparent homicide, otherwise two on each side.

Although there was a third side, Oglala tribal chairman Dick Wilson, with the US Government basically taking his side against AIM.

Seems to have been a fair amount of violence from both sides, Wilson and his GOONs, and AIM.

H2O Man

(73,308 posts)
15. Good point.
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 10:30 AM
Jan 2016

Dickie Wilson was like a third-world dictator, financed by those in industry and government who were intent upon exploiting the Lakota's natural resources. He was in no way representative of the majority of the people, who were in favor of traditional leadership. In fact, it was the US government's refusal to recognize the will of the people -- who had attempted to impeach Wilson -- that led to this conflict.

hfojvt

(37,573 posts)
29. he somehow got elected though
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 12:10 PM
Jan 2016

to both the council and as chairman. Wiki says he was impeached, but then demanded an immediate trial before the people impeaching him were ready.

Similar to the current situation in our country. I apparently have classmates who are furious at the fact that Obama is President. They insist that he and Hillary both need to be in prison. They call him a dictator for things like his recent executive orders. They would love to see him impeached.

Many of us feel the same way about Brownback. Even though both Brownback and Obama will be out of office in three years. Who knows what damage Brownback will be able to do in his remaining three years?

It's hard for me to know about WK, even from a mere 300 miles away. One side says Wilson was a goon and the other side says AIM was. Each side was using violence and claiming self defense against the other side. In the end, Wilson was in power for fewer years than Janklow, and he died at the fairly young age of 55.

In sociology class, they said that democracy only works if you have a society without major cleavages. It doesn't work when those on opposite sides are willing to kill for their side.

H2O Man

(73,308 posts)
30. He was "selected."
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 12:54 PM
Jan 2016

The "elections" were as crooked as those in the most repressive of dictatorships. And his GOON forces brutalized those who questioned his authority.

H2O Man

(73,308 posts)
18. Thank you, cali!
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 10:31 AM
Jan 2016

I'm glad to see you here on the forum. You provide one of the rational voices in this community.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
20. Thanks, H. Your voice here is so informative and valuable
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 10:36 AM
Jan 2016

I'm really interested in the long history behind the Malheur standoff. Pretty fascinating and incorporating so many strands of American History and American theology.

H2O Man

(73,308 posts)
24. While it is not
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 11:03 AM
Jan 2016

directly related, this conflict reminds me of the tragic case of Randy Weaver at Ruby Ridge. I think that the two are closely related in significant ways.

In my opinion, the best resource on the Weaver/ Ruby Ridge conflict is Jess Walter's "Every Knee Shall Bow: the Truth & Tragedy of Ruby Ridge & the Randy Weaver Family" (ReganBooks; 1995). It is a disturbing read, but has value in the understanding of the beliefs and motivations of the "militia" types.

aikoaiko

(34,127 posts)
17. MOVE in Philly, The Branch Davidians in Waco, and other incidents changed law enforcement tactics.
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 10:31 AM
Jan 2016


Unless there is an imminent danger, law enforcement takes a more patient strategy.

H2O Man

(73,308 posts)
19. Good point.
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 10:35 AM
Jan 2016

Thanks for this!

All of these examples are important. I think that it is essential for people to understand that at Wounded Knee, Nixon didn't stop at calling in federal police agencies, or even the National Guard. He brought in the US Army.

aikoaiko

(34,127 posts)
21. Reminds me a lot of Kent State in that way.
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 10:39 AM
Jan 2016


"You must respect me authority" attitude can lead to disastrous decisions.

H2O Man

(73,308 posts)
22. You raise another
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 10:57 AM
Jan 2016

important example for our consideration. I think that James Michener's book, "Kent State: What Happened and Why" (Fawcett Chrest; 1971) provides the most accurate and detailed history of that brutal chapter in American history. I absolutely appreciate your bringing it into this discussion.

The law does allow for the National Guard to respond to conflicts such as at Kent State. The manner in which events played out, of course, in no manner was justified.

The Constitution does not allow for a president to have the US Army engage in domestic hostilities. But what happened at Wounded Knee, as it involved the Army, was part of the Nixon administration's absolutely unconstitutional Huston Plan. By no coincidence, President Nixon was convinced that his instituting the Huston Plan was the only thing that he could be impeached and convicted for.

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
28. The problem with considering MOVE analogous
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 11:18 AM
Jan 2016

Is that they had already killed a LEO who was attempting to serve a warrant, they had made a fortress of a townhouse on a city block, were blaring sound from speakers at all hours, and were dumping human waste in an adjoining public park.

They weren't just occupying their space and going about their business, but were engaged in an escalating public nuisance and health hazard to everyone else living in close proximity.
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