Your Opinion, Please (H2O Man Survey #24)

[H2O Man]

Question: Do you think that the people on Fox News actually believe the things they say?


Context: Last night, I was hoping to catch up on the weekend’s “news.” MSNBC had on re-runs of shows about incarceration; CNN was running a program on Whitney Houston. I hesitated, but then clicked on Fox News. Yikes!

The host of the program was Lauren Green. For the approximate three minutes that I watched her show, I noted that she spoke in a manner intended to de-humanize the population in Iraq and Syria that is known as ISIS. To be clear, I find the beliefs of that group offensive, and their behaviors to be horrifying. I do not pretend to know the answer to how to stop the gross violence in their territory, or the rest of the Middle East. Yet, I question the benefits accrued in identifying any population as less than human.

Because I watch Fox News less than a half-hour per year, I am not familiar with many of that network’s hosts. In fact, my impression tends to be that the network is the host, and that individuals like Bill O’Reilly and Sean Hannity are (human) parasites that feed upon its audience’s ignorance and fears. The network’s ratings serve as an imperfect measure of our social pathology.

However, even after turning the television off, something about the vacant look in Ms. Green’s eyes had caught my attention. Then I remembered seeing a clip of her interviewing Reza Aslan on his book “Zealot.” Non-Fox news sources had played clips of her 2013 attempt to attack Aslan, and exposing her own utter ignorance on the topics at hand.

It’s interesting -- to me, anyhow -- that if it were in the context of an American courtroom, Aslan would be qualified to express an opinion about the topic of his book, but Green would not be. Indeed, her beliefs would be deemed a “bias,” rather than an “opinion.” Yet, in the American media, which often presents as the witness stand in the court of public opinion, she is able to channel her bias to a segment of the public that believes her position reflects some type of expertise. (To be fair, she could qualify as an expert witness on piano, while Aslan could not.)

Yet, Ms. Green believed that, despite his advanced degrees in religious studies, Aslan was disqualified from expressing his thoughts on the historic figure Jesus, because he is Islamic. I suspect that narrow thinking influences her beliefs on everything else going on in the Middle East. Thus, I think she is sincere in her ignorance, fears, and hatred.

[GeorgeGist]

1. YES.

They are that stupid.

[ChosenUnWisely]

2. It does not matter what matters is that fox viewers believe what they are spewing and trust them.

It is nothing but propaganda, nothing more and it works.

[H2O Man]

16. Good point.

Thanks!

[NightWatcher]

3. There are both, idiot spokes-holes who believe their BS, and there are some who are just selling

what their bosses tell them to sell. Shepherd Smith knows what the score is. The morning crew are a bunch of completely useless whores.

So yes, some of their on camera spokespeople probably believe it (if not only for the fact that they live in the hate bubble that is Faux), but I'm sure that others will just read whatever anyone puts in front of them for a quick buck while somewhere in their mind they know what is really going on. I just wonder how many of them realize that they are corporate mouthpiece whores and that they will be kicked to the curb as soon as they outlive their purpose (or for the ladies of the network, age and are no longer cute enough).

[H2O Man]

17. Right.

I agree with you on Shepherd Smith. I remember him reporting on the flood in NO, and realizing he was actually an intelligent person. I can't understand why he remains at Fox.

[antigop]

4. Do Republicans actually believe the things they say? nt

[H2O Man]

18. Fair question.

A few people I know are registered republicans. Some extended family members, for example. The majority of them are fiscal conservatives, with a range of social views. They seem to have more and more difficulty in relating to the blowhards at the national level, yet they remain registered republicans. (I note that in the town of Sidney, NY, where I've assisted with several "local" campaigns, even though republicans outnumber Democrats by more than 2 to 1, we won 5 of 7 elections. Maybe there is hope.)

[mercuryblues]

5. they

are not uneducated, that is for sure. Philistine more aptly describes them imo.

[H2O Man]

32. Right.

With a few exceptions, they appear to be intelligent, yet highly misinformed people. A couple actually seem smart.

What horrible, terrible, rotten events in their lives caused them to be so hateful? And just uptight, to use a word from my youth?

[Jackpine Radical]

6. My knowledge of theFox universe is slight, but

I suspect that for most of them, the question of whether they are dealing in truth simply does not arise. That's not what their focus is. They are intent on putting out content that is pleasing to their bosses, who are in turn concerned with pleasing the Emperor (who, by the way, is someone you would never want to see without his clothes).

[H2O Man]

33. Okay, now you've done it!

That last little clothing comment scares me.

[Frustratedlady]

7. I have to admit I have never truly watched FOX except for the time it took

me to go from the door of a waiting room to the remote. I have, however, watched videos posted by others on DU to their insane and often comical bits of so-called news.

FOX commentators are there for the shock value. They titillate their audience with items of sexual innuendoes, scare the bejeebers out of them with anything Obama, and keep the juices flowing with terrorist rumors of attack within the borders of the U.S.

FOX is a viable outlet for those who cannot think for themselves. The rest of us have to endure their idiocy when we are accidentally exposed.

Do the commentators believe what they are spewing? Of course, and they thank their lucky stars all the way to the bank.

[H2O Man]

34. I really like your

description of the time it takes to get to the remote! Perfect!

And I agree with the rest of your response. Well said. Thanks!

[notadmblnd]

8. Fox employees are plastic people living in their own plastic world

They are shallow, pretentious and possess a set of beliefs that has been instilled in them via those who are greedy and selfish and will do anything to attain what they want. They've been taught to believe that they are better than the rest of humanity and that those they feel are beneath them are not really human, when in fact just the opposite is true. Their number one priority in life is them selves and they are willing to devour each other if one of their peers get in their way. They lack consciences and empathy. They are soulless individuals- which is why they've only vacant looks in their eyes.

[H2O Man]

35. Great answer!

Thanks you.

I think that "plastic" is the most accurate description.

[Bluenorthwest]

9. I don't watch FoxNews, nor do most Americans. Personally I can count on DU to be right wing and

anti gay enough to fill that side of the debate for me.

[H2O Man]

38. There does seem to

be too much anger and hostility on DU in recent times. In that sense, parts of it compares with Fox News. And some of it appears focused on some of the groups that I consider solid members of the Democratic Left, though even more seems un-focused.

Thanks!

[jeff47]

10. Some do, some don't.

Some actually believe the crap that vomits forth from their mouths. Such as O'Riley.

Some are too stupid to understand what they're saying. Such as Hannity.

Some realize they're just saying what gets them a paycheck.

[H2O Man]

39. I agree with you on

Hannity: he is not an intelligent being. I think he often lies, though always to try to prop up his beliefs. But you are right -- he believes that nonsense.

O'Reilly is a very disturbed individual.

[JEB]

11. Some are idiots, some are assholes, some

are idiot assholes.

[H2O Man]

40. You nailed it!

Thanks!

[salin]

12. my answer is different today than it would have been 15 years ago.

Fifteen years ago there was conservative and there was conservative fringe. Fox had a little fringe and a lot of conservative. Witness the coverage of the "Brooks brothers suit riot" as a means of disrupt recounts in Florida. Partisan hype - but not woo-woo.

In the post 911 hysteria, they began to introduce more fear - and it sold. Thus started lurching into more fringe. Then when the public began questioning the war - and especially after Abu Grahib - they had to become dismissive of torture that was hard to dismiss and dismissive of legitimate questions of how we got conned into the war in Iraq. Around this time fringe became normal on the network and on the plethora of right-wing radio shows. At this point more on air personalities may have begun consuming each of the next fringe explanations offered off on by other rw media or GOP office holder or on the internet and immediately (moronically) repeat it as truth.

Once the "teaparty" emerged and the hype of Obamacare death-panels, and fake birth certificates, and so on and so on - it seems that any crazy fringie idea mentioned ... would be hyped regardless of its rationality. The bubble is now so tightly sealed on their echo chamber I think most believe their hype. I think the standard is no longer spinning to make their side look better - but based on some rationality - I think now the standard if something stated could - even with a big stretch of logic - be true - then it should be reported/restated. And a lot of things are floated (ridiculous), but when something takes off with their base, er, audience (IRS! Benghazi! etc.) they go into hyperventilation mode with the fringiest theories presented as facts. Yes, I believe they have propagandized themselves as well as their audience, and that they believe most of what they are saying - or at least believing that it "is possible" which I believe is their journalistic standard.

[BlueJazz]

14. Bravo. You got it!

[salin]

19. thanks.

I keep waiting for them to hire Alex Jones and give him an hour long show. I think they have reached the point where Glen Beck is no longer too extreme for them - and Alex would fill that void.

Unthinkable to suggest 15 years ago.

[H2O Man]

41. Very impressive!

I really appreciate your thoughtful, insightful answer. I had posed the question in the OP seriously, though fully aware that it might get some of the humorous answers it has.

Your answer is representative of the best this forum offers. Thanks!

[salin]

55. I appreciate your question, and response

I know I don't post that much anymore - but if I have the time - and a post makes me stop and think a little while - I try to give a thoughtful response.

Given the depth of your thoughtful posts, I take your response as a great compliment.

Peace,

salin

[H2O Man]

56. I know that I,

for one, sure do wish that you were posting more often. (I don't know if it's due to life-circumstance, DU, or anything else. But when the time comes, I definitely hope you are here!)

And the feeling is mutual!

[malaise]

13. I think some of them genuinely believe the lies and propaganda they spew

and others are there to spew it regardless.

[H2O Man]

42. Right!

What a terrible level of consciousness to inhabit. I hope that at some time, some how, they wake up.

[malaise]

45. I don't expect them to change in my lifetime

although the public is changing since we have way more access to the truth these days

[H2O Man]

47. Yep!

The thrill is gone, so to speak. Their audience surely isn't growing. But I do expect them to be vicious in 2016.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

15. Yes. And, P.T. Barnum commented on the reason why.

"There's a sucker born every minute." At least, he is alleged to have said it.

[H2O Man]

43. Short and sweet!

Right to the point!

Thanks, Friend.

[Jefferson23]

20. They have a unified slant and their presentation and body language etc are all

pretty much similar. I have seen Fox clips, and this seems prevalent even in the
low doses I have screened. John Stewart often shows some of their worst moments
and when I see them, I have to admit I have gasped at the level of propaganda and
bigotry.

I recently listened to Colbert interview on NPR soon before his show ended. He said he
watched O'Riley all the time, and studied him..what he found was a guy who mastered
a persona of I am not like all those other people out there, I am my own person..therefore
I will always tell you the truth..trust me. Pretty scary, 'cause so many do.

[H2O Man]

44. Good call.

Thank you for the insight on their presentation & body language. Very important information. It made me think of trained dogs at one of those kennel shows that are sometimes on tv.

[Jefferson23]

50. Yep. Trained is a good word for it. lol

I enjoyed your OP...thanks.

[herding cats]

21. I think some believe their cause is a righteous one and the lies are warranted

For them it's about furthering the Republican agenda any way possible. The manipulation of those willing to believe whatever the GOP tells them has been a winning tactic, after all.

Some probably believe most of what they say, they're a creation of the example above.

Others are just there for the paycheck and gave up on any semblance of journalistic integrity in their career when they took the position.

[H2O Man]

49. Solid answer.

Thanks! I agree -- those who purposefully lie do so to advance their agenda. Hannity is a prime example: he lied about Al Gore throughout the 2000 campaign, and refused to allow guests to correct the record. (I did watch some of their programming at that time.)

[Octafish]

22. Words coming out of their mouths doesn't mean they know what they are saying.

Since the repeal of the Fairness Doctrine and many other regulations that once made the broadcasters accountable to the People, they don't have to. All they have to do is say what the boss wants. And we know who the boss and his owner at FOX admire, a man who really cough understood the power of an idea.

"Terrorism is the best political weapon for nothing drives people harder than a fear of sudden death." -- Adolf Hitler

Sorry to have to post this for infinite reasons, H2O Man.

[H2O Man]

51. Great point regarding

the Fairness Doctrine.

Equally important point about their serving to instill fear and anxiety into an unsuspecting, confused audience by way of lies. They serve their masters that way; when a population feels threatened, and that "threat" level is artificially raised and lowered (but always there), that population will be willing to support any and every call for war. Indeed, the Fox audience would have gladly followed John McCain, had he been elected, to war in literally every corner of the world. Their mistrust of him was, sadly, that they did not believe him to be conservative enough.

[calimary]

54. LOVE IT!!! Adolf Hitler quotes are simply stunning in their relevance. Creepy. Horrifying. But

STUNNING. Reminds me of that bit in the first Harry Potter movie - John Hurt as Mr. Ollivander, the wand shop proprietor. Produced a wand for Harry to examine, because Harry needed one for his first year at Hogwarts. The wand had a connection to the evil Lord Voldemort. And Mr. Ollivander said something about how the Dark Lord was capable of doing "great things. Terrible. But great things." ("Great" as in large and tremendously overpowering, like a "great earthquake" of 8 or more on the scale, not necessarily "great" as in wonderful.) My favorite quote attributed to Hitler was "what luck for the leaders that men do not think." That one stopped me cold.

I told my kids about it. My daughter was in 4th grade at the time. At one point everyone in her class was assigned to come up with a memorable quote. She chose THAT one! Everyone presented their quote, in turn, and the rest of the class was charged with guessing who said it. Nobody got hers. When she told them, she later told me, everybody gasped.

It's one of my favorite quotes - EVER. That monster sure knew how to manipulate people. That quote should be on the Pox Noise coat of arms, if they have one.

And I'm torn over your question, H2O Man. Not sure how to answer. I think if at least some of them DIDN'T believe everything they said and "reported," they might have a problem getting up and going into work there every morning. Unless they're very skilled at putting the ol' blinders on and collecting that paycheck every other week. That's what makes me wonder why the hell Shepard Smith is still working there. How can he countenance that, with the grip on reality that he often seems to have (or at least display)?

Then again, I've been in the network news world and people are able to separate it. Some of the stuff you cover - you kinda have to. Clinton critics obsessing on the whole Monica mess used to refer to it as "situational ethics." Like being a "Cafeteria Catholic" I suppose (guilty as charged, here, btw!) - you pick and choose what you can live with and what you can and can't stomach. Many of 'em, I'd suspect, are just in it for the money, because - as I have heard many of them confess "hey, I've got kids in private school..." or "a wife/family to support" or "alimony/house payments" or some such. Hell, I used to work with a guy who - we teased - was working on his fourth set of alimony payments, due to his having to move cross-country for jobs and uproot more than one wife, and eventually those wives got tired of being uprooted again and again to accommodate his changing job locations.

I also wonder if a modified form of the Stockholm Syndrome starts to set in with people like those who work at Pox Noise. Most media buildings have the audio of whatever programming is on at any given moment - piped in everywhere. It's in the lobby, the receptionist's entrance, the hallways, even the bathrooms. I worked at one big station where the programming was coming out of the guard shack by the security gate to the parking lot. When you're surrounded by that, and inundated by that, and literally steeped in that shit all day, no matter WHERE you go in the building, I'll bet it starts to have an impact. You steep in it til it almost literally turns you into a teabagger. And if one doesn't have strong convictions or isn't paying attention, pretty soon it's likely that they will start accepting and internalizing what they're exposed to, nonstop, ALL THE OL' LIVE-LONG DAY. It can easily begin to override and drown out any possibility of critical thinking. It can easily start to modify one's thinking.

Consider - how many people in this country are lock-step Pox-bots or limbots - they take on these ideas and embrace them fully and become one with them. They do because that's all they hear. That's all they see. That's all they're exposed to. If all you listen to all day is limbaugh, where is the rebuttal? Where is the push-back? Where is the other side of the argument or the issue or whatever? Answer: NOWHERE. No such thing. No opposing views need apply. So what can you expect them to think, with that carefully-programmed and targeted avalanche of misinformation, distortion, and outright lies? They never hear anything other than this shit. So they can't be expected to know or believe anything else. Garbage in, garbage out.

[H2O Man]

59. Great answer!

Man, oh man, after a particularly bad day, reading your message just put me in the very best of moods! Thank you so much!

In other contexts -- from farms to factories, carpentry to social work -- I've seen exactly what you are describing, in the sense of the "workplace" robbing a person of their self-respect. For example, at a factory I was once employed at, management KNEW that every young man they "elevated" to the most honorable of positions, foreman, would soon buy the new car, take out a loan for some home-improvement or another, and on and on. These guys (a very few women were made foremen), mortgaged their lives.

So when a supervisor said, "Jump," they jumped. They came to believe that they couldn't say no. And it may seem that a factory doesn't include a great deal of ethical/moral issues, but they sure as hell can. Especially, perhaps, because it was part of the military-industrial complex. But it damages people, and intentionally destroys marriages. (People having "affairs" at work are always willing to spend a lot of over-time at their job site.)

In Native American/ legal work, I remember a state worker who wanted to hang with the Iroquois. But when push come to shove, he lied for the security of his job. He betrayed us on an important case in court. And I remember, at one meeting, him bragging about the private school he was sending his offspring to.

In my mind, my wonderful Friend, that is a character defect. Not that I don't have my own. But I really have never fully understood the love of money.

[Jamastiene]

23. Yes, they do, imo.

People with those kinds of hardline beliefs carry those beliefs into college with them and retain it no matter what they learn along the way. They just throw away anything they learn to the contrary. I've seen it happen a lot where I live.

[H2O Man]

57. Yep.

I think that what we see on tv is what they live like/for. Sad. And I like your point that they throw away any and all information that doesn't fit their rigid construct. Sadder yet.

[Scuba]

24. Seems unlikely. Paid shills, IMHO.

[H2O Man]

58. Some definitely are.

No question, guys like Bill O'Reilly are prostituting their profession. I have no respect for those guys. None. And it's so they can have money and the power that money and fame bring.

It's funny -- I'm poor, but a few years ago, when a NE regional energy executive said that he wanted to hire me as his corporation's "environmental spokesman," all I could say was, "Please stop. Don't embarrass either of us." He's never talked to me since. I don't think that anyone has ever said no to him before.

[LWolf]

25. I don't know.

I've never deliberately watched it.

I'm sure some portion of them have been conditioned into believing what they say, just like their audience.

[H2O Man]

60. Very good!

I know that it is entirely my own fault for even turning that nonsense on. (I watched it, along with CNN and MSNBC, through the 2000 election. Very, very little since. Still, I wish that I could say "not at all."

[Tom Ripley]

26. No, whores tell Johns what they want to hear

[H2O Man]

61. Good answer!

Thanks! I like it.

[KittyWampus]

27. Most don't believe in anything other than doing what is necessary to collect their paycheck.

If FOX News was suddenly acquired by Noam Chomsky and turned into Commie Central or whatever I have no doubt the hosts would simply read the next script with no qualms or even thought process.

So on some level I think the hosts are generally not highly intelligent nor prone to self-reflection or philosophical speculation.

[H2O Man]

62. Wow!

Great answer! Much appreciated!

You nailed it, especially with "not prone to self-reflection or philosophical speculation." Dang! That's as solid as any home-run that Babe Ruth ever hit, or any knockout that the great Joe Louis ever scored!

[panader0]

28. Like you said: "I watch Fox News less than a half-hour per year"

so I don't feel qualified to offer an opinion. What I know about Fox News I learn here at DU, and those who watch seem united in disgust and distrust.

[H2O Man]

64. Right!

I am admittedly rather unfamiliar with Ms. Green, but I really doubt that Saturday Night Live could top the two items in the OP, if they were to attempt a skit on her. My impression was that she is no more conscious than, say, a can-opener. I'm sure she is more anxious than one, but no more insightful.

[livetohike]

29. Yes. I think they believe the things they say. I work the polls each election in my corner of the

forest in rural Pennsylvania. Some of the voters have no problems expressing their feelings out loud and I am increasingly surprised by their stupidity. They truly believe these things and are passionate about it - Benghazi, unions, gay marriage, terrorism and the list goes on.

Look at Sarah Palin. Part of me was hoping she was just an act and that no one could be that stupid. It's frightening. You cannot fight some ignorance with education. These types will believe this crap until their dying day.

[H2O Man]

65. My aunt lives

in Scranton, as do a few cousins; others are in Philly. We often exchange stories on our experiences at polls, etc. Upstate NY is pretty republican, with a few islands of sanity and applied intelligence.Family members from PA have expressed more concerns in recent years, regarding the mis-educated electorate.

[Laxman]

30. On Air News "Personalities".....

are not exactly at the top of the intelligence charts. Their performances are graded on looks, their ability to read, memorize talking points and verbal delivery style. It's not their analytical abilities that are either on display or desired by their employers. What gets scary is when they start to believe they are intelligent-or worse, when their audience starts to believe it. They (both host and audience) begin to become convinced of their superiority and exceptional abilities. I mean if they're on T.V. they must be smart. These personalities become extraordinary propaganda tools because of their ability to be programmed and the audiences' predetermined bias towards believing them. Next thing you know the talking heads become convinced of their superiority and they begin to behave like real journalists-only they are just a poor imitation. So you end up with interviews that are like having your garbage man interview a neurosurgeon. (no disrespect meant to sanitation engineers!). It's part of a greater societal problem where we have abandoned critical thinking. So Fox is producing a product that suits the interests of both its audience and its owners with the on-air personality being merely the delivery mechanism. It's very disheartening how vulnerable we are to such manipulation.

[H2O Man]

66. Outstanding.

Great answer! Thanks.

I agree fully with everything you've said here. And I admire the manner in which you made outstanding, important points.

[el_bryanto]

31. It depends on the issue.

Disclaimer - I don't watch very much fox news. But when I did I got the impression they were a bit like Rush Limbaugh. They know the script they are supposed to read from. On some issues they are just saying what they are supposed to say. On other issues, particularly related to the economy and protecting the wealthy, they are passionate believers.

I could be wrong; but that's my impression.

Bryant

[Takket]

36. yes

The mind has quite a surprising power actually to diluting itself into believing things that aren't true/never happened to suit our own vision of what we want to see when we look at the world. I'm sure fox News hiring practices screen their employees to make sure they hire the most gullible people they can.

[bettyellen]

37. Nope, I saw Michael Savage debate Al Franken once, and he pretty much admitted that it's a persona..

when he was faced with facts he could not answer to. He made it pretty clear he knew he had to say "the opposite" of whatever Franken did.
Very possibly there are "newreaders" on staff in lesser roles at Fox who are stupid as well as not interested in the veracity of their reporting. It's a paycheck to them. So, they say whatever is expected.

[Tsiyu]

46. Having worked with Neil Boortz and other Wingnut Mouthpieces

I can honestly say that no, most right wing pieholes do not believe most of what they spew.

But they get paid to spew, and that makes it okay.

Just verbal prostitutes, really, for the Koch Brothers. If liberals were paying their salaries, they'd suddenly all sound like Bernie Sanders.

[Liberal_in_LA]

48. no. They say what they need to for ratings and job security

[bobalew]

52. Faux Newz is a forum of Millionaire paid Talking Heads, telling the Billionaire's story, Only,

NOT Yours, NOT the middle class', and ANY BS that forwards the 1% agenda. Period.
Do they actually believe the BS they're spouting? Some do, they call those poor fools 'True Believers".
Do the Senior Management & Senior personalities believe? I think not, they are just very perverted Cynics, spouting for BLOOD MONEY.

[Agnosticsherbet]

53. I think that whether or not they are true believers is irrelevant

FOX has an agenda and an editorial policy to provide pleasing information propaganda that appeals to their viewers ideological beliefs in exchange for eyes on screen, which allows them to make large amounts of money from advertising and support causes near and dear to the reality sucking singularity that serves as Rupert Murdoch's heart, which allows him and his investors to make massive amounts of money around the world and influence governments everywhere.

If Murdoch told them all to bark like a Chicken, not one of them would try to explain that Chicken's don't bark. Some of them are so vacuous that they would even believe in their heart of hearts that Chicken's bark and dogs cluck.

[bigwillq]

63. I'm sure some do.

The others are probably there for the paycheck.

[Blue_Tires]

67. Some of them are true believers, but I think most don't...

[Tom Rinaldo]

68. I think they believe in their mission

I think they believe that America, as they perceive it, would be better off if a conservative pro corporate world view prevails here. Toward that end, I believe they play fast and loose with means. When they lie they see them as "White" lies to protect "our" best interests, so they don't hesitate to twist the truth to promote an outcome they truly think best. Conservatives at heart tend to be social darwinists. and they accept massive human suffering as a natural by product of success. So if a certain "spin" serves their interests, why question and undercut t? They believe they ultimately know what's best and their mission is to move the nation in that direction. People who think that way fall into mind sets that reenforce their own convictions, and sometimes objective reality barely penetrates their thinking.