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trumad

(41,692 posts)
Wed Jan 28, 2015, 03:58 PM Jan 2015

Michelle Obama Gives Zero Fucks About What the Saudis Wanted Her To Wear



On Tuesday, President Obama and the First Lady attended the funeral of Saudi Arabia’s King Abdullah, a renowned misogynistic tyrant who oversaw some of the harshest and most oppressive conditions endured by women anywhere in the world. These conditions included and still include bans on voting and driving. When going out in public, women must be accompanied by a male relative and are expected to cover their heads and faces because modesty or whatever. Abdullah also kept three of his daughters locked up for more than a decade for speaking out for women’s rights. (They remain so.)

According to some very upset people in Saudi Arabia and elsewhere, Michelle Obama was supposed to cover her head while visiting the country. To vent their outrage, they took to Saudi Twitter and used hashtags that translate to #Michelle_Obama_Immodest and #Michelle_Obama_Not_Veiled. (Apparently, Saudi Twitter is just as capable of fruitless outrage as U.S. Twitter is.)

Well, Michelle Obama gave zero, and let’s count ‘em — zero, zero, zero — fucks about what the Saudis wanted her to wear on her head. Not only that, instead of wearing black at the funeral, she wore a blue blouse and a festive-looking blue-sweater jacket of sorts that could double as a spring getup for a leisurely stroll through the National Arboretum before a boozy brunch. So while her husband is obliged to say nice things about Abdullah and be respectful because of geopolitics, Michelle is under no such obligation. Hence, the giving of zero fucks.

http://thedailybanter.com/2015/01/so-few-fcks-so-little-time/
80 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Michelle Obama Gives Zero Fucks About What the Saudis Wanted Her To Wear (Original Post) trumad Jan 2015 OP
I like Michelle alot, and I'm glad she gives no fucks. Sheldon Cooper Jan 2015 #1
! jpak Jan 2015 #4
I am so stealing that. nt B2G Jan 2015 #5
Me too ismnotwasm Jan 2015 #17
Love that! n/t Exhibit A Jan 2015 #8
!!! Tarheel_Dem Jan 2015 #10
Welcome to DU, Exhibit A! calimary Jan 2015 #15
Thanks, calimary! Exhibit A Jan 2015 #57
Hello bigwillq Jan 2015 #56
Thanks, bigwillq! n/t Exhibit A Jan 2015 #58
LOL azmom Jan 2015 #11
LOL, very nice! nt nc4bo Jan 2015 #14
+1 uponit7771 Jan 2015 #16
That should be an OP on its own re Mrs. Obama's bare head. greatauntoftriplets Jan 2015 #21
Excellent.. that could go for so many things in our own lives, too.. Mahalo Sheldon. Cha Jan 2015 #59
Good for her B2G Jan 2015 #2
Precisely the number of fucks called for. Good on her! 11 Bravo Jan 2015 #3
Huzzah for her shenmue Jan 2015 #6
First Lady Michelle Obama/AKA/MNFTG. Cha Jan 2015 #60
My father's reaction Exhibit A Jan 2015 #7
She's got class galore. calimary Jan 2015 #18
I agree K & R nt m-lekktor Jan 2015 #9
badass with out saying a word irisblue Jan 2015 #12
You GO Girl!!!!! heaven05 Jan 2015 #13
Same number as I. Dr. Strange Jan 2015 #19
She's an American, so she thinks she equal to anyone CanonRay Jan 2015 #20
He's not her King. So he can go fuck himself. Elmer S. E. Dump Jan 2015 #23
This headline is baloney, elleng Jan 2015 #22
The DIAZEPAM was very strong that day. Elmer S. E. Dump Jan 2015 #24
I guess so, elleng Jan 2015 #25
That's a Xanax smile. nt msanthrope Jan 2015 #28
Very similar to a DIAZEPAM smile. Elmer S. E. Dump Jan 2015 #29
Diazepam would be more relaxed. nt msanthrope Jan 2015 #30
You can tell she is/isn't relaxed? Elmer S. E. Dump Jan 2015 #46
Did someone important just die when Mrs. Bush had tea in whatever place she was in? Fred Sanders Jan 2015 #32
you mean headscarfs are a must for western women when someone has died, but not at other ND-Dem Jan 2015 #66
thank you. ND-Dem Jan 2015 #65
You're welcome. elleng Jan 2015 #77
K&R! Enthusiast Jan 2015 #26
hmm, the king might take this as an invitation to go donald ducking when out-of-country MisterP Jan 2015 #27
100% thanks to Michelle Obama for showing Saudi men what a real woman looks like. JDPriestly Jan 2015 #31
Message auto-removed Name removed Jan 2015 #67
First Lady was NOT required to wear a headscarf. That's the misconception. misterhighwasted Jan 2015 #33
right on. pangaia Jan 2015 #38
It's like people think the Saudis never encounter a woman not in a headscarf. tammywammy Jan 2015 #41
I don't understand the fuss or focus. She behaved appropriately and set a fine example, as always. MADem Jan 2015 #54
and plenty of other western female dignitaries have done the same. ND-Dem Jan 2015 #68
Hmm, Mrs. Bush outfit in Saudi Arabia SummerSnow Jan 2015 #34
Trumad, did you see the NBC Nightly News report on the Obama's visit? countryjake Jan 2015 #35
Men do not touch women that they are not related to in Arab countries. former9thward Jan 2015 #37
There are apparently many here dumbcat Jan 2015 #39
Yes, travel and learn. former9thward Jan 2015 #40
I certainly condemn the culture enforced by the Saudi royal family JonLP24 Jan 2015 #45
Um...that culture CONDEMNS MY ENTIRE GENDER Tsiyu Jan 2015 #47
Message auto-removed Name removed Jan 2015 #62
Oh for god's sake. That statement is as stupid as the assumptions made in the OP. The Obamas ND-Dem Jan 2015 #70
Message auto-removed Name removed Jan 2015 #72
go back to free republic ND-Dem Jan 2015 #73
I think we should all quit making ignorant assumptions about what other people's behavior ND-Dem Jan 2015 #69
A total non story. former9thward Jan 2015 #36
This message was self-deleted by its author Donald Ian Rankin Jan 2015 #42
Actually greymattermom Jan 2015 #43
and her legs too greymattermom Jan 2015 #44
Nothing new spedtr90 Jan 2015 #48
What about the men? They wear the head towels and don't expect Western men to wear them. libdem4life Jan 2015 #49
"head towels"??? Saphire Jan 2015 #50
Whatever you call them...don't know the correct term. Long,with the headbands. The men cover their libdem4life Jan 2015 #75
The day I give a fuck about the royal family RandySF Jan 2015 #51
Her clothing is perfectly appropriate and sufficiently "Islamic" for a non-Muslim woman. MADem Jan 2015 #52
Yes, thanks. elleng Jan 2015 #53
The Saudi culture is not worthy of respect bluestateguy Jan 2015 #55
Message auto-removed Name removed Jan 2015 #63
Message auto-removed Name removed Jan 2015 #61
Go back to free republic. ND-Dem Jan 2015 #71
She's not the first western female dignitary not to wear a headscarf while visiting the saudis ND-Dem Jan 2015 #64
PHOTOS: Female Leaders Besides Michelle Obama Who Didn’t Wear A Headscarf In Saudi Arabia ND-Dem Jan 2015 #74
According to Lawrence O'Donnell last night, female visitors are asked to dress modestly and head merrily Jan 2015 #76
Saw that and I agree completely! Rhiannon12866 Jan 2015 #78
I think if her husband were running again she would have complied but I love her! redstatebluegirl Jan 2015 #79
I can throw around "F" bombs with the best of them, but I find cadaverdog Jan 2015 #80

calimary

(80,700 posts)
15. Welcome to DU, Exhibit A!
Wed Jan 28, 2015, 04:50 PM
Jan 2015

Glad you're here! Isn't that GREAT? I think a bunch of us are probably gonna steal it! I actually do give a fuck about it. I am insulted and outraged that they'd snub her like that. I take it as a personal affront. If they could do that to her, they'd certainly do that to me if I ever was over there. She's not bound by their rules and conventions and belief systems. And they should just shut up and be gracious. She's married to our President for Heaven's sake! Show some respect!

Exhibit A

(318 posts)
7. My father's reaction
Wed Jan 28, 2015, 04:28 PM
Jan 2015

My elderly father, who is a Faux News addict and just about the worst right-wing extremist I think I've ever met, even told me this afternoon that he was impressed with her for this. I pointed out that she was also setting a good example for her daughters by refusing to go along with such expectations.

calimary

(80,700 posts)
18. She's got class galore.
Wed Jan 28, 2015, 04:53 PM
Jan 2015

She reminds me of Jackie Kennedy. Elegance, grace, style, class. Brilliant, compassionate, loving and kind. A true role model for all women regardless of skin color.

elleng

(130,156 posts)
22. This headline is baloney,
Wed Jan 28, 2015, 05:12 PM
Jan 2015

as well as highly offensive imo.

Michelle and Potus surely do care about the cultural norms of the countries with whom the US engages on the world stage, and Laura Bush similarly visited Saudi Arabia without covering her head. I don't know about this 'banter' group, but I wouldn't quote them when trying to make the point and discuss this issue.

This from Greta, about Laura: http://gretawire.foxnewsinsider.com/twitter/note-to-everyone-first-lady-michelle-obama-is-not-the-only-one-first-lady-laura-bush-did-the-same-thing-in-2007-look-at-pic-and-click-to-read/

and a pic of Laura Bush:

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
31. 100% thanks to Michelle Obama for showing Saudi men what a real woman looks like.
Wed Jan 28, 2015, 05:29 PM
Jan 2015

Beautiful. Love the dress. The color is just magnificent on Michelle Obama.. Royal blue. She is the real royalty in that picture. Royal in her soul. Thanks again, Mrs. Obama.

Fox News? Aren't those the guys that hyperventilate over sharia law?

And now they criticize Michelle Obama for not following it?

Makes no sense.

Response to JDPriestly (Reply #31)

misterhighwasted

(9,148 posts)
33. First Lady was NOT required to wear a headscarf. That's the misconception.
Wed Jan 28, 2015, 05:33 PM
Jan 2015

She is not Saudi & the only time she may respectfully wear one is upon entering a Mosque.
She did however, wear loose clothing out of respect for Saudi law & did not reach out to engage in handshake nor nod upon greeting the King's entourage.
The First Lady only responded to such gestures when she was approached first.

That is the protocol for female foreign dignitaries.

You really think Michele Obama would take on such a visit without being coached or wanting t know the proper protocol?
Maybe in a teabilly world, but the First Lady is much smarter than to just show up without doing her homework on protocol.

She could have indeed chosen to wear a headscarf, but it was never a proper requirement.

Such bulls*it to be criticized on.
The headscarf issue is irrelevant except to Faux News.

Thanks

tammywammy

(26,582 posts)
41. It's like people think the Saudis never encounter a woman not in a headscarf.
Wed Jan 28, 2015, 06:46 PM
Jan 2015

It's actually quite embarrassing to read such foolishness. I know women that have traveled there on business and didn't wear a scarf. Other foreign female leaders have been there without the scarf. Michelle Obama isn't the first female the Saudi royals have met that wasn't wearing a scarf. This is such a non issue. Michelle Obama did nothing out of the ordinary for a non-Saudi non-Muslim.

 

ND-Dem

(4,571 posts)
68. and plenty of other western female dignitaries have done the same.
Thu Jan 29, 2015, 03:47 AM
Jan 2015

this thread reminds of when the heroine in "Titanic" gave some stuffed shirt the finger. The audience cheered and I cringed. Like some upper-class woman at the turn of the century would ever do such a thing.

How insulting to the first lady to say she 'gives no fucks' like she's in some Hollywood film, flipping off the Saudis.

countryjake

(8,554 posts)
35. Trumad, did you see the NBC Nightly News report on the Obama's visit?
Wed Jan 28, 2015, 06:11 PM
Jan 2015

While I'm not exactly certain that Ms. Obama doesn't really give a fuck, I do know that as I watched that particular report and saw the Saudi delegation pass her by, one after the other, ignoring her very presence in that receiving line and refusing to shake her hand, my own thoughts ranged from, "What the FUCK!" to "Fucking assholes!":

President Obama Meets With Saudi Arabia's New King Salman
http://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-news/president-obama-meets-saudi-arabias-new-king-salman-n294911

I think that we all should give a fuck when so many of the representatives from one of our key allies on the World stage persist in viewing women as less than human.

former9thward

(31,805 posts)
37. Men do not touch women that they are not related to in Arab countries.
Wed Jan 28, 2015, 06:32 PM
Jan 2015

I have been in most of them and that is the culture in all of them.

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
45. I certainly condemn the culture enforced by the Saudi royal family
Wed Jan 28, 2015, 06:49 PM
Jan 2015

New York – Human rights in Saudi Arabia, birthplace and heartland of Islam, are based on Islamic law, or the Sharia, under the rule of the Saudi Royal Family. It has been widely accepted that the application of these rights, more specifically women’s rights, is emblematic of Islamic dogma. It must be underlined, however, that the highly contentious theocratic ideology of Wahhabism, the monarchy’s official interpretation of Islam, plays an instrumental role in the formulation of many of these rights. It, therefore, follows that a substantial number of women’s civic rights in Saudi Arabia, or lack thereof, are only validated by the opinions of a chauvinistic male-dominated Wahhabi society, devoid of any coherent Islamic rationale.

Despite the growing attractiveness of this Wahhabi discourse, it is important to recognize that is does not represent the entire gamut of intellectual space in the Muslim world. In effect, although the inferior status of women is a fairly consistent theme in many Muslim countries, its correlation with Islam, though not arbitrary, is not absolute.

There exists endless controversy in both Islamic and Western literature over the Muslim position on women. In their war against Islamic law, women’s rights organizations expose abuses committed by the Saudi regime against women; inherent in their message, therefore, is that Islam is incompatible with the human rights of women.

To terminate this debate, it is crucial to discount all stereotypes attributed to Muslim women and to understand the actual teachings of this faith, and second, understand the Wahhabi interpretation of Islam. This comparative analysis reveals that an examination of women’s rights as outlined in the Quran and the Sunnah of the Prophet, highlights Islam’s highly revered notion of egalitarianism. Wahhabi regulations for women, on the other hand, are only traced back to the legal codes based on fiqh texts selected and interpreted by a modern patriarchal order.

http://www.moroccoworldnews.com/2013/04/87234/womens-rights-in-saudi-arabia-wahhabism-vs-islam/

Tsiyu

(18,186 posts)
47. Um...that culture CONDEMNS MY ENTIRE GENDER
Wed Jan 28, 2015, 06:58 PM
Jan 2015



Hate to yell, but you seem to be missing that part. Do we do what's best for half the population of the planet, or what's best to make nice with those who oppress the other half of their own population?

It's really not that difficult.



Response to Tsiyu (Reply #47)

 

ND-Dem

(4,571 posts)
70. Oh for god's sake. That statement is as stupid as the assumptions made in the OP. The Obamas
Thu Jan 29, 2015, 03:53 AM
Jan 2015

followed standard diplomatic protocol, as do all presidents and their families.

Response to ND-Dem (Reply #70)

 

ND-Dem

(4,571 posts)
69. I think we should all quit making ignorant assumptions about what other people's behavior
Thu Jan 29, 2015, 03:49 AM
Jan 2015

means.

former9thward

(31,805 posts)
36. A total non story.
Wed Jan 28, 2015, 06:29 PM
Jan 2015

The Saudi leadership does not care what Western women wear, especially those in leadership positions. Condoleezza Rice was with Obama and she did not wear a head scarf either. Laura Bush and Hillary Clinton did not wear them either in earlier visits. Twitter messages have the same non-meaning in Saudi Arabia as they do in this country.

Response to trumad (Original post)

 

libdem4life

(13,877 posts)
75. Whatever you call them...don't know the correct term. Long,with the headbands. The men cover their
Thu Jan 29, 2015, 11:50 AM
Jan 2015

heads too, but don't expect or criticize Western men for being head covering free. That the focus is only on women going bare headed and is another form of sexism the West buys into ... suddenly ... about our black First Lady...no others. Many Western political women have "failed" the Burka Test.

RandySF

(57,661 posts)
51. The day I give a fuck about the royal family
Thu Jan 29, 2015, 12:44 AM
Jan 2015

will be the day oil is obsolete and those royal terrorist fade into poverty.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
52. Her clothing is perfectly appropriate and sufficiently "Islamic" for a non-Muslim woman.
Thu Jan 29, 2015, 12:50 AM
Jan 2015

Notice that she is wearing a high neck and long sleeves, also, her blouse and overblouse are loosely cut, not form-fitting. She is wearing trousers that are not tight and cover all the key bits. The overblouse covers the posterior, which is 'just the ticket' when it comes to "appropriate" attire.

She is showing respect for the culture but she's not being subjugated by it.

Good for her.

Some people know how to walk the fine line--she's one of 'em.

Response to bluestateguy (Reply #55)

Response to trumad (Original post)

 

ND-Dem

(4,571 posts)
64. She's not the first western female dignitary not to wear a headscarf while visiting the saudis
Thu Jan 29, 2015, 03:40 AM
Jan 2015

It's not like she's taking some brave original stand.



1 American officials in Saudi Arabia typically do not wear headscarves, including at formal government functions. Michelle was following normal protocol.

2 Former first ladies Laura Bush and Hillary Clinton did not wear headscarves on similar official visits to Saudi Arabia. Neither did former Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice.

3 Saudi Arabia is officially ultra-conservative, but it is also heavily integrated into the global economy; unveiled Western women are extremely common in elite government circles like this one. Unveiled female Western leaders are common sights on Saudi media.

4 I feel very confident that no one at the funeral blinked at seeing Michelle Obama unveiled. Saudi royals are comfortable with the West and with Western customs; many spend long parts of the year in Europe and a number were educated in American boarding schools or colleges. They are accustomed to seeing unveiled women, and to working and interacting with powerful women...

http://www.vox.com/2015/1/28/7928167/michelle-obama-saudi-arabia-headscarf

 

ND-Dem

(4,571 posts)
74. PHOTOS: Female Leaders Besides Michelle Obama Who Didn’t Wear A Headscarf In Saudi Arabia
Thu Jan 29, 2015, 04:11 AM
Jan 2015
http://thinkprogress.org/world/2015/01/28/3616556/saudi-arabia-michelle-obama/

Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX) praised Michelle Obama on Twitter for “standing up for women” by not wearing what he called, a “Sharia-mandated head-scarf in Saudi Arabia.” But, as The Hill pointed out, the AP article he linked to in his tweet clearly stated that the headscarf is not a requirement for foreign women visiting the country.

There were also reports that the “first lady shocked some in the ultra-conservative country” by shaking hands with the newly-anointed King of Saudi Arabia.

It’s really not that shocking. Several female heads of state and U.S. secretaries of state have grasped kingly Saudi fingers.

To boot, here’s Condoleeza Rice shaking hands with Saudi Foreign Minister Saud al-Faisal, a crown prince, back in 2008.

While there were some 1,500 tweets using a hashtag that translates as #Michelle_Obama_unveiled, that’s far from a “backlash” in a country with 2.4 million Twitter users.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
76. According to Lawrence O'Donnell last night, female visitors are asked to dress modestly and head
Thu Jan 29, 2015, 12:06 PM
Jan 2015

covering is optional for visitors. She is dressed modestly and exercised the official option in favor of omitting the head dress.

The critics, Saudi and USian, need to sit down and shut up.

redstatebluegirl

(12,264 posts)
79. I think if her husband were running again she would have complied but I love her!
Thu Jan 29, 2015, 03:54 PM
Jan 2015

The Saudis have hated women since the beginning of time, she doesn't have to live by their rules... Of course the Republicans like those rules....go figure.

cadaverdog

(228 posts)
80. I can throw around "F" bombs with the best of them, but I find
Thu Jan 29, 2015, 04:03 PM
Jan 2015

the title of this OP particularly distasteful in implying that our First Lady is thumbing her nose at the traditions of another country when there is absolutely zero evidence to support such a claim. Besides the many points that have already been made about her attire and comportment, it should be noted that she respected local tradition by walking a step behind the president from the airplane, and did not offer her hand to a man in the greeting line unless he offered his first.
Thankfully the First Lady exhibits a lot more class than the writer of this OP offers.

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