Congress versus CIA (one question)

[H2O Man]

Which do you think has more power in our society: The US Congress (Senate & House), or the Central Intelligence Agency?

There is no "right" or "wrong" answer here ......I'm merely asking for your opinion.

There is, of course, the potential for a bit of a showdown taking place right now. One might think it's merely a "show," or that the "down" side is that the concern seems to be if the CIA is spying on select members of Congress.

A potential complicating factor is that we have a corporate Congress, and the CIA was born from corporate spy operators, and continues to represent corporate interests.

Another source of confusion is that the Congress is provided certain rights and responsibilities by the US Constitution, while the CIA has limits placed upon it -- in theory, if not practice -- by our federal laws. Add to this that, again at least in theory, the CIA is supposed to work for the Executive Branch. Hence, even if one is convinced that the CIA has equal power to the President, or even that all recent Presidents have served the CIA, it still involves a serious question of constitutional authority.

In a bit, if there's any interest in this discussion, I'll add my opinion. I wonder at times if I'm (relatively) alone in seeing the man's face in this tree.

Peace,
H2O Man

[Mnemosyne]

1. CIA, undoubtedly. nt

[H2O Man]

2. Thanks!

[Mnemosyne]

8. Anytime! Great question! nt

[BelgianMadCow]

4. I was gonna reply "information = power", and you see how unequal this is

so I agree.

[Mnemosyne]

6. Wondering how much policy has been based on blackmail. nt

[Kelvin Mace]

3. The people who can record your calls,

read your emails, texts and your snailmail have you by the short and curlies.

[antigop]

5. Is the CIA spying on Congress? Then I would say the CIA has more power. nt

[warrprayer]

7. Congress...

"For the first time in history, more than half the members of Congress are millionaires, according to a new analysis of financial disclosure reports conducted by the non-partisan Center for Responsive Politics.

Of the 534 current members of the House and Senate, 268 had an average net worth of $1 million or more in 2012 – up from 257 members in 2011. The median net worth for members of the House and Senate was $1,008,767.

The wealthiest member of Congress? That's Rep. Darrell Issa, a California Republican, who had a net worth between $330 and $598 million."


http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpolitics/2014/01/10/261398205/majority-in-congress-are-millionaires

... is not in a power struggle with C.I.A. IMO. It is more like they are the poodles of the MIC and have to put on an act occasionally to maintain the illusion of democracy.

[fascisthunter]

9. The CIA (nt)

[Octafish]

10. CIA has more power.

Their power lies in secrecy.

No public oversight.

No public accountability.

No telling who they serve.

No telling who they profit.

No telling who are its members and agents.

No telling what is their agenda.

Congress casts votes in public and, in theory, has to answer to voters every two or six years.

[alsame]

11. CIA. They are

unidentified, unaccountable, unelected. And we rarely know what they are doing.

[Blue_Tires]

12. Well, from a cynic's point of view:

Intelligence Community > Pentagon > Lobbyists > Congress

But I would add that the one-percenters who pull the strings of all four groups are equal, if not already running in the same country club circles...

[truedelphi]

13. CIA is the power.

They control who gets to be the news media Talking Heads.

They decide which people get promoted inside various news bureaus such as AP and Reuters.
They have lots of money to funnel into various causes, through black op programs. (And even Congress doesn't know how much money those programs cost the taxpayers.)

[Jackpine Radical]

14. The relationships between the various power centers in America--

the Executive Branch, Congress, banks/Wall Street, the MIC, the military itself, etc., are quite entangled.

There is clear evidence that the CIA has long been a tool of Wall St. (think Dulles bros.), and I have no doubt that they, like J. Edgar in his heyday, have used whatever means were available to them, including domestic spying, blackmail, selective exposure, and even fabricated evidence to advance the interests of the super-rich.

So the answer isn't simple. Near as I can guess, DiFi thought she was one of the "insider class" but was surprised when she found herself inside the net, and is now tantruming in public. (Not that tantrums are always bad, of course.)

[MisterP]

32. they're all aligned by ideology or interest: we only see anything

when there's a conflict--after Eugene Hasenfus the CIA was getting sick of the NSC doing everything off-the-books and Argentine-style

[Donald Ian Rankin]

15. Obviously Congress.

Real CIA has much less power than spy-thriller CIA or conspiracy-theory CIA.

[malaise]

16. On paper given Constitutional power it is supposed to be the Congress

but in reality the CIA has more power since there are very few checks on that institution.

[silverweb]

17. CIA.

[font color="navy" face="Verdana"]No question. They operate mostly in secret with only minimal Congressional "oversight," and have nearly unlimited funding that's spent mostly in secret on "classified" operations (aka whatever they want to call "classified&quot .

A normally divided Congress just rubber stamps whatever they demand in the name of "national security," knowing full well that they can, without a doubt, destroy any member who opposes them if they so choose.

[BobbyBoring]

18. Hands down, the CIA

One has to wonder and I have for many years, WHO THE FUCK IS THE CIA? They seem to be unaccountable to anyone and have been one of the biggest destabilizing forces world wide since their inception.

Do they work for the USA? yes and no~

[spanone]

19. if it's the cia, i fear our democracy is doomed

[mrdmk]

20. That's the bottom line now! n/t

[savannah43]

21. C.I.A.

[scarletwoman]

22. I'm interested in knowing why you framed the question as "more power in our *society*",

as opposed to "more power in our government". Not that I disagree, I just found it an interesting wording choice.

It seems clear that money - or more precisely, those who have acquired the most wealth - has the most power in our "society" - culture, communication, allocation of resources, the justice system, education, etc.

It also has the most power in our government - and that's where the CIA comes in. While both Congress and the CIA serve the interests of the wealthy above all, the CIA has a far broader array of tools to put to this use. Not least of which is the carefully cultivated cover of secrecy, in ostensible service to the security of the State. However, what the CIA is in fact in service to is the longstanding Western Capitalist project to control the exploitation of worldwide resources, most especially oil.

Hands down, the CIA has more power.

[H2O Man]

25. Great question!

I think that most thoughtful people recognize that we have a corporate government. All three branches of the federal government obey the rules. If an individual in government crosses a certain line, then one media source -- and it is as likely to be found on certain internet sites, even more than in a newspaper or on televised news initially -- will chop their knees out from under them with a well-placed "scandal." Obedient politicians can engage in scandalous before for their entire career, so long as them jump when they're told to jump, and bite when they're told to bite.

We remember what happened when part of the last administration attempted to pressure certain parts of the CIA, including the Office of the Vice President identifying a NOC to punish her CI-asset husband for a NY Times op-ed. That old political bull Dick Cheney was made a steer late in his career; today, he's a disgraced joke.

Those types of media campaigns -- that Cheney and his lap dog Scooter attempted -- aren't that easy, without certain abilities to "control" the major corporate medias. "Left-wing" internet sites might uncover and report numerous realities that document the on-going destruction of our constitutional democracy. So long as the corporate media fails to report, or reports misinformation and disinformation, a large segment of the population will tend to ignore these threats. On some level of consciousness, they know that things are changing .....but they are able to ignore the anxiety that awareness causes as soon as they enter that voting booth.

I think that level of control of media manipulation provides a terrible power to destroy democracy.

[scarletwoman]

29. "they are able to ignore the anxiety that awareness causes as soon as they enter that voting booth."

Beause voting is an act of "normalcy". If we can vote, then Pleasantville lives.

Besides, I would say that nearly ALL of the population's unconscious anxieties have been quite successfully misdirected toward the wrong targets - gays, women, immigrants; racial, ethnic, and religious "others"; the opposition party (whichever one that is for them), and so on.

What percentage of the population has any perception of the big picture? I would say it's vanishingly small - in great part due to media manipulation.

[wildbilln864]

23. CIA! n/t

[KoKo]

24. Not the US Senate for sure... DiFi KNEW she was being spied upon...

Last edited Tue Mar 11, 2014, 10:10 PM - Edit history (1)

her hubby and her fortune are Military Defense....

Smoke and Mirrors. Took us awhile to figure this out, though. But, it's in our faces now.
What do we do about it?

BTW...you have a young daughter and she was an activist at one time. I wonder what she would think of this young reporter...I found her charming in this and her other reporting and very much of a different generation that I find in common...

If you have a chance could you ask if she would watch this and then "PM" me as to what she thought?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024647057

We just gotta Keep on Truckin'...it ain't over until the last sheep goes off the cliff. I don't intend to be one of them.

[H2O Man]

27. Good timing!

My activist daughter is home on "spring break." I'll be able to show her, either later tonight or tomorrow.

I had a her and another university student activist in my vehicle for a long ride last Friday. I so enjoyed talking with them! Missed a couple turns, and got a ticket.

Sometimes on breaks/vacations, I am visited by a group of them. They enjoy reading through my scrapbooks and files, and discussing history and current events. They give me faith in the future.

[KoKo]

28. ah...thanks...

this reporter has other videos on the site.. shes young and seems wise beyond her years. And yes...

They are the Hope! And much cooler and more savvy than the MSM wants to portray them!

[Historic NY]

26. CIA, the congress comprises a bunch of bumbling a$$holes....

some with dubious associations and or criminal records.

[840high]

30. CIA

[giftedgirl77]

31. The CIA which is wrong & very disturbing considering

it appears that they have no oversight what so ever. A huge audit needs to be done within all aspects of our Intel agencies & they all need to be reigned in. However, as long as those fucking morons are in the house & Senate I wouldn't want them revising anything.

[Catherina]

33. This is a rhetorical question right? CIA lol n/t

[jmowreader]

34. Definitely Congress

Congress, as they stand right now, is capable of destroying the world economy in one day simply by allowing the US to default on its debt. The CIA has nothing that can touch that.